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Caldari Assault vs Logi Maths

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Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1880	Posted - 2014.03.16 22:41:00 - [31] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: instead of removing the slots give 1-2 slots to the Assaults... it's basically the same just a reverse nerf. Assaults don't need more slots, they already have plenty. Giving them more slots will only make them closer to fast moving heavies. Assaults would be pretty balanced if they just got that CPU/PG buff that light and heavy classes got, some stat changes, maybe better bonuses and for Logis to lose 1-2 slots (plus some other stat changes on Logis of course). More slots for Assaults will only make them OP. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Vin Mora Sanguis Defense Syndicate 277	Posted - 2014.03.16 22:43:00 - [32] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Honestly, I still think there's a use for both suits. Caldari Assault will have a better base but won't be able to fit modules like the logistics. The logistics will be gimped in versatility while the assault will shine there. In a world where TTK is a tad bit higher and a sidearm definitely makes or break battles(see: Sentinels), the logistics will allow for specialized slayers who lack the non-support versatility of the assault and commando, but will have better stats than the assault. There's also the reloading bonus for the Caldari...The Rail RIfle in particular is a weapon designed for "keep away" so imagine what happens when your enemy gets all in your face while you reload and can't switch weapons? On a spreadsheet, it seems like Logistics > Assaults but I'm not sold on it and I actually believe assaults will be the more competent slayer in 1.8. I think I am one of the few people who likes the Caldari Assault bonus. Back when TTK was much higher, it was extremely hard for me (a die-hard Gallente Logi) to kill anything. While this can be considered good for those that wish for the death of the of Slayer-Logi, it also means that I can't 'clear the area' to revive someone. Not having a sidearm on my suit has gotten me killed countless times. Being an Assault that carries two long range weapons (Rail Rifle and MagSec SMG), which can cover all ranges, and can quickly be reloaded, is going to be far better then people are giving credit for. It is (besides the Minmatar Assault suit) one of the suits that I think that I will be speccing into. I have 'tested' out the reload speed bonus by using the current (1.7) Amarr Commando, and it feels nice. I was able to kill several groups of people by reloading quickly in-between engagments. I was able to also suppress people betteras well when I was outside of my optimal range. Things on paper, aren't always 1-for-1 in practice. In an intense firefight, being able to put more rounds in air, gives you the better chance at survival, is a good thing. that is what this bonus is there to help with. Besides, we all know that reloading as often as possible is one of the most important rules of FPSs. Sanguis Defense Syndicate: Recruitment now open for players of all skill levels
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2090	Posted - 2014.03.16 22:45:00 - [33] - Quote Heavy can clock in at 1400-1800 HP a Logistics clocks in 1000 HP in extreme cases on average 800 HP at max, I don't think it will be a problem... For the Federation!
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 733	Posted - 2014.03.16 22:52:00 - [34] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Also I said that a Assault should be buffed not the Logistics merged so what is your problem with the ideology? If you had the same slots as a Logistics you get more tank than them but at least they are not utterly useless in anything but dropping equipping away from battle. I wasn't stating that they would be merged. I was stating that if you had one Suit that had 90 more EHP and a Sidearm, which you may not use because of fitting restrictions (I don't/can't), or another Suit that had more CPU/PG, faster depleted recharge, and 2 more equipment slots, which would you go for? Sure, the Logistic player does lose a small amount of EHP but gets far more out of it than they lose. Logistics are still better than Assaults at pretty much everything. They shoot the same gun, have similar defense, can throw out lots of equipment for their team, and can hack stuff faster. The Assault does the same shooting, maybe being able to shoot for longer periods of time between each reload/overheat, but does nothing else. That's from a balance perspective. From an ideological perspective, having the same exact layout for Assault-Logistics is boring and lazy. Every other game that I have played as a FPS that has a Support/Assault has greater variation than that. The Medic in TF2 has one of the lowest HP and has a near useless gun. BF2 (the last one I played) has the medic without a grenade launcher and a bullet-resistant vest compared to the Assault. In DUST, if there they did have the same layout, it would mean zero variation between them other than "No Sidearm = 2 Equipment slots." At the moment, Assaults are not utterly useless. They still fight, shoot, die, and hack objectives. It is just that Logistics do it better while having two more equipment slots. If the slot layouts were to be reversed, meaning that a Prototype Caldari Logistics was 4 High-3 Low, they would be as "utterly useless" as Assaults are now. They would die faster than Assaults but still be able to kill at the same speed and provide their team with equipment. It would also be a cool thing with the hack bonus. Logistics die easier than Assaults but hack objectives much faster, so more teamwork is needed to get the most out of the benefit rather than the Slayer Logi.
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 217	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:06:00 - [35] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Heimdallr69 wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing... But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes. I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. I never use a sidearm with my assault so it makes no difference to me. Gotta find that cover! True in this build TTK is so short that reload almost never comes up, in 1.8 however less damage and proficiency changes will be a big hit to slayer logis which is why my use of the cal logi will end. Yeah the reason I specced into Amarr logi was the sidearm for being a slayer logi. Its still effective on one on one or against a heavy so I don't have to make that reload. With ttk so short though I don't use it nearly as much as I use to. I also used it for when Im camping ya know what I do sometime. Back when Massdrivers were good id have a gun to actually shoot ppl with if they came up after me. A Freedom and a Six KIn SMG is a deadly combo or was. Anyhow im hoping that 1.8 will make my sidearm more vital again with ttk going back up. 1.7 kinda stole that edge that I had with my sidearm. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *Putting Dust players out of their misery since Jan 2013
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 972	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:08:00 - [36] - Quote Running both assaults and logi I can tell you logi can run proto/adv tank and weapon w/ advanced equip0 or proto/adv tank, proto equip, and adv. weaponry. My problem with my assault suits is you can't get proto tank and proto weaponry at the proto level suit. If you could it does do better than the logi as a "slayer" its faster has a sidearm and the HP if both are maximum tanked out wind up being very close to the same. So I'm thinking we should see how the indirect buff to CPU/PG goes and then if its still not enough only a little buff in PG/CPU would do it IMO. Asking for another slot when you can't even effectively fit what we have doesn't do any good. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3833	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:13:00 - [37] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: So CCP, please tell me why I should stay with my current CalAssault instead of switching to the clearly better 1.8 Slayer Logi? You should do neither, really. They said they weren't able to alter the fitting and slots of medium frames before 1.8. So, that means the slots and fitting and medium frames will change. You won't get another suit respec when they do it (I bet). So, don't skill into either and wait for them to actually make those changes. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 733	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:18:00 - [38] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Running both assaults and logi I can tell you logi can run proto/adv tank and weapon w/ advanced equip0 or proto/adv tank, proto equip, and adv. weaponry. My problem with my assault suits is you can't get proto tank and proto weaponry at the proto level suit. If you could it does do better than the logi as a "slayer" its faster has a sidearm and the HP if both are maximum tanked out wind up being very close to the same. So I'm thinking we should see how the indirect buff to CPU/PG goes and then if its still not enough only a little buff in PG/CPU would do it IMO. Asking for another slot when you can't even effectively fit what we have doesn't do any good. The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. If the slots were switched, there would obviously have to be some kind of increase to the Assault's CPU/PG. What will actually happen is up in the air. I just don't want there to be a clear option when it comes to Logistics vs. Assault.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1880	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:24:00 - [39] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. It's also worth noting that there are Weapon Operation and Fitting Optimization skills to reduce CPU/PG of weapons, so if you have SP in those skills the suit bonus actually reduces CPU/PG less. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 733	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:30:00 - [40] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. It's also worth noting that there are Weapon Operation and Fitting Optimization skills to reduce CPU/PG of weapons, so if you have SP in those skills the suit bonus actually reduces CPU/PG less. Right. Was just doing quick and dirty. Even without the multiplicative not giving you the extra amount, it is still lackluster.

LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 327	Posted - 2014.03.16 23:39:00 - [41] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: I agree with funk that the cal assault stats are very underwhelming and need some rebalancing... But I want to point this out I have 30 million SP and 1 protosuit that being the Cal Logi and I can safely say easily 70% of my deaths come during the reload. The lack of a sidearm is huge and will be even more important in 1.8 with the weapon proficiency changes. I have no idea why the cal logi is getting a shorter recharge delay then the assault because that is dumb. I agree entirely. That is the majority of the reason I end up dying as well. Kill a couple people and have to reload when someone else comes around the corner or spawns back in and you're dead. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San Renegade Alliance 42	Posted - 2014.03.17 02:43:00 - [42] - Quote All Assaults need 'Regenerating and CPU/PG' buff
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5170	Posted - 2014.03.17 02:47:00 - [43] - Quote AP Grasshopper wrote: your so silly, I guess 10% ROF means nothing to you. Even after damage mods are nerfed. Hahahahahahahah! You look so stupid right now *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
M McManus 432	Posted - 2014.03.17 02:48:00 - [44] - Quote It's crazy that we're still talking about making the assault an actual assault and getting rid of slayer logi.... It only took CCP what 3 months to still **** this up..


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