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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
731
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Posted - 2014.03.16 21:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
The bonus that Assaults get, 5% reducction to CPU on Light/Side, is ridiculous. It is pretty much worthless if you are using a Basic Weapon, negligible if you have it in an Advanced, and if you are using a Prototype weapon you probably are in an Advanced/Prototype suit meaning you probably have room to spare.
Caldari with Prototype Rail Rifle and Magsec: 61/12 + 84/17 is 145/29. 25% reduction saved you 36.25/7.25. So the Logistics still has "more free CPU/PG" even with the reduction. If the Assault doesn't have a Sidearm, they only save 21/3.5; not exactly going to set the world on fire in anyway.
If the Logistics has a Drop Uplink, an Injector, and a Repair Tool all at a basic level with level 5 X Logistics, they save 17/3.25. Advanced would be 28/4.75 and Prototype 41.75/7.5. The Logistics bonus makes sense because 3 equipment slots actually burn a huge amount of CPU/PG. A Light Weapon and a possible Sidearm don't use as much.
I don't understand how the notion of "Logistics should have more High and Medium slots" passed the design stage. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
733
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 22:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:
Just a general thought. The Logistics need their tank, but if that's the only problem then just give the Assaults the same slots also.
Why do the Logistics need their tank? They are not meant to be taking fire; more in the back with equipment while laying down support fire. I think all that can be said is "Logistics need the tank; that's why they have more slots." I think the 'fact' came before the reasoning though. "Logistics have more slots, so they must need the tank." Assaults don't need the tank because they don't have the slots by that logic.
There has to be some kind of trade off aside from a Sidearm, which many Assaults don't have because of fitting restrictions, when it comes to being a Logistics. Think of it like this:
"You can go Suit A that has a Sidearm and 50 more EHP or you can go Suit B, that has more CPU/PG, faster depleted shield recharge, and two more equipment slots." That is the same exact problem now. Logistics are able to do tanking/fighting just as well as Assaults but also have equipment.
Every other game has some kind of detriment for the utility of being a Support; the same needs to be true with DUST.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
733
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 22:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:
Also I said that a Assault should be buffed not the Logistics merged so what is your problem with the ideology? If you had the same slots as a Logistics you get more tank than them but at least they are not utterly useless in anything but dropping equipping away from battle.
I wasn't stating that they would be merged. I was stating that if you had one Suit that had 90 more EHP and a Sidearm, which you may not use because of fitting restrictions (I don't/can't), or another Suit that had more CPU/PG, faster depleted recharge, and 2 more equipment slots, which would you go for? Sure, the Logistic player does lose a small amount of EHP but gets far more out of it than they lose. Logistics are still better than Assaults at pretty much everything. They shoot the same gun, have similar defense, can throw out lots of equipment for their team, and can hack stuff faster. The Assault does the same shooting, maybe being able to shoot for longer periods of time between each reload/overheat, but does nothing else. That's from a balance perspective.
From an ideological perspective, having the same exact layout for Assault-Logistics is boring and lazy. Every other game that I have played as a FPS that has a Support/Assault has greater variation than that. The Medic in TF2 has one of the lowest HP and has a near useless gun. BF2 (the last one I played) has the medic without a grenade launcher and a bullet-resistant vest compared to the Assault. In DUST, if there they did have the same layout, it would mean zero variation between them other than "No Sidearm = 2 Equipment slots."
At the moment, Assaults are not utterly useless. They still fight, shoot, die, and hack objectives. It is just that Logistics do it better while having two more equipment slots. If the slot layouts were to be reversed, meaning that a Prototype Caldari Logistics was 4 High-3 Low, they would be as "utterly useless" as Assaults are now. They would die faster than Assaults but still be able to kill at the same speed and provide their team with equipment. It would also be a cool thing with the hack bonus. Logistics die easier than Assaults but hack objectives much faster, so more teamwork is needed to get the most out of the benefit rather than the Slayer Logi.
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
733
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 23:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Running both assaults and logi I can tell you logi can run proto/adv tank and weapon w/ advanced equip0 or proto/adv tank, proto equip, and adv. weaponry. My problem with my assault suits is you can't get proto tank and proto weaponry at the proto level suit. If you could it does do better than the logi as a "slayer" its faster has a sidearm and the HP if both are maximum tanked out wind up being very close to the same. So I'm thinking we should see how the indirect buff to CPU/PG goes and then if its still not enough only a little buff in PG/CPU would do it IMO. Asking for another slot when you can't even effectively fit what we have doesn't do any good.
The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender.
If the slots were switched, there would obviously have to be some kind of increase to the Assault's CPU/PG. What will actually happen is up in the air. I just don't want there to be a clear option when it comes to Logistics vs. Assault. |
Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
League of Infamy
733
|
Posted - 2014.03.16 23:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:The CPU/PG bonus is fairly minor. With a Prototype Rail and Prototype Magsec, it saved you 36.25/7.25; enough for an Enhanced Shield Extender. It's also worth noting that there are Weapon Operation and Fitting Optimization skills to reduce CPU/PG of weapons, so if you have SP in those skills the suit bonus actually reduces CPU/PG less.
Right. Was just doing quick and dirty. Even without the multiplicative not giving you the extra amount, it is still lackluster. |
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