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CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 96	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:19:00 - [1] - Quote While I sort of understand the rationale behind increased TTK, I am a little concerned about what it means for sniping (and, to a lesser extent, other alpha-focused roles, like shotgun scouts). As it stands, it was clearly a poor decision to recently skill into complex damage mods. Standard level are unchanged (huzzah! ), advanced get nerfed 20% (previously 5%, now 4%), but complex get docked 50 FRICKEN PERCENT (from 10% to 5%)!!!! At least we get dropsuit command skills refunded which is totally fair on its own, since they didn't add or change any equipment in 1.8... This is absurd. What else has been "rebalanced" this extremely? Certainly nothing in 1.7 or 1.8... community--please enlighten me, because I don't understand this. Maybe I'm missing something, but extending TTK seems to be primarily important/relevant to troops on the frontline, most of whom wield high-DPS, automatic weapons. The biggest damage nerf any of the automatic rifles got was 15.6%... hmm... Wonder if nerfing those weapons just a little more would be a more equitable way of dealing with the problem for all players? Nah. Let's kick damage mods in the taint, instead. I feel like this is going to make sniping much less viable. Here is some math using a charge sniper rifle as an example: Pre-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.21 (approx. +21% from 3 complex damage mods) = 424.55 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 742.97 per head shot. Post-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.11 (approx. +11% from 3 complex damage mods) = 389.47 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 681.56 per head shot. This turns out to be about an 8.3% difference in total damage output. I don't think this is too big a deal on its own, but I keep reading all sorts of things about dual-tanking becoming the norm, buffs to shield mods (couldn't find anything from the devs about this, but I've read it in numerous threads), etc. If these ideas carry any weight, I can foresee OHK sniping (aka, sniping) becoming a sweet memory. Maybe none of this will matter with the way damage types, racial suits, and resistances are rebalanced? I'm doubtful this is the case. Thoughts? Feelings? My other dropsuit is a Python.
Kaughst Nyain San Renegade Alliance 249	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:20:00 - [2] - Quote Caldari Commando? O wait..rail rifles..yea..sorry? "That is not how you say my name." "How do you say your name?" "I don't know but that is not how you say it."
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 96	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:37:00 - [3] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Caldari Commando? O wait..rail rifles..yea..sorry? Yes, this is true--skilling 5 levels into Caldari commando is one response to this situation. However, the suit has only one equipment slot and a large scan profile. The profile issue can be slightly mitigated through the use of a profile dampener (what else you'd do with the single low slot on this suit if using it to snipe is beyond me), but a single equipment slot is a real disadvantage for a sniper. Going proto is necessary in this situation, since STD and ADV variations only have 2 high slots. So, all in all, not a very great "solution". I think the idea that a player should have to skill into a particular suit to use a whole class of weapon optimally is ridiculous. This is probably intentional, since the commando suit is advertised "as a damage dealing monster in combat", but I still think this is ridiculous, since they're almost certainly not referring to alpha damage (I feel comfortable asserting this since there are really only four alpha-type weapons: SN, SG, MD, and FG (and possibly a charged ScR); in any case, none of these weapons is very effective in frontline fighting, for obvious reasons that have been addressed in many other threads). My other dropsuit is a Python.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 811	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:57:00 - [4] - Quote This version could be the final nail in a few snipers' coffins. But we should wait and see. The commando suit is loud (high scan profile) and lacks for good slots. Having to skill into a specific suit to get a good sniper fit is crazy. And I'm really getting tired of having to start the SP grind again every third time a new update is offered. Snipers should be glass cannons, not punching bags for the nerf hammer. The 1.8 changes could be smoking ashes and tears for us. But we should wait and see. The CQC guys will be spending so much time trying to kill each other that we might get ignored more instead of being actively hunted. Who knows. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3208	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:02:00 - [5] - Quote High scan profile shouldn't matter to a sniper working from a distance. You only light up if someone is pointing their weapon at you. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2022	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:08:00 - [6] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: While I sort of understand the rationale behind increased TTK, I am a little concerned about what it means for sniping (and, to a lesser extent, other alpha-focused roles, like shotgun scouts). As it stands, it was clearly a poor decision to recently skill into complex damage mods. Standard level are unchanged (huzzah! ), advanced get nerfed 20% (previously 5%, now 4%), but complex get docked 50 FRICKEN PERCENT (from 10% to 5%)!!!! At least we get dropsuit command skills refunded which is totally fair on its own, since they didn't add or change any equipment in 1.8... This is absurd. What else has been "rebalanced" this extremely? Certainly nothing in 1.7 or 1.8... community--please enlighten me, because I don't understand this. Maybe I'm missing something, but extending TTK seems to be primarily important/relevant to troops on the frontline, most of whom wield high-DPS, automatic weapons. The biggest damage nerf any of the automatic rifles got was 15.6%... hmm... Wonder if nerfing those weapons just a little more would be a more equitable way of dealing with the problem for all players? Nah. Let's kick damage mods in the taint, instead. I feel like this is going to make sniping much less viable. Here is some math using a charge sniper rifle as an example: Pre-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.21 (approx. +21% from 3 complex damage mods) = 424.55 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 742.97 per head shot. Post-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.11 (approx. +11% from 3 complex damage mods) = 389.47 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 681.56 per head shot. This turns out to be about an 8.3% difference in total damage output. I don't think this is too big a deal on its own, but I keep reading all sorts of things about dual-tanking becoming the norm, buffs to shield mods (couldn't find anything from the devs about this, but I've read it in numerous threads), etc. If these ideas carry any weight, I can foresee OHK sniping (aka, sniping) becoming a sweet memory. Maybe none of this will matter with the way damage types, racial suits, and resistances are rebalanced? I'm doubtful this is the case. Thoughts? Feelings? I also agree that in the (rightful) quest to increase TTK, the snipers will be disproportionately affected. Hopefully CCP will do something about this, but I would expect that it will take a while. Incidentally, I'm still waiting on my Flaylock to be useful again.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 778	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:23:00 - [7] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: Thoughts? Feelings? Good. The useless role of a sniper is further diminished. Sorry, you asked.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 37	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:27:00 - [8] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: While I sort of understand the rationale behind increased TTK, I am a little concerned about what it means for sniping (and, to a lesser extent, other alpha-focused roles, like shotgun scouts). As it stands, it was clearly a poor decision to recently skill into complex damage mods. Standard level are unchanged (huzzah! ), advanced get nerfed 20% (previously 5%, now 4%), but complex get docked 50 FRICKEN PERCENT (from 10% to 5%)!!!! At least we get dropsuit command skills refunded which is totally fair on its own, since they didn't add or change any equipment in 1.8... This is absurd. What else has been "rebalanced" this extremely? Certainly nothing in 1.7 or 1.8... community--please enlighten me, because I don't understand this. Maybe I'm missing something, but extending TTK seems to be primarily important/relevant to troops on the frontline, most of whom wield high-DPS, automatic weapons. The biggest damage nerf any of the automatic rifles got was 15.6%... hmm... Wonder if nerfing those weapons just a little more would be a more equitable way of dealing with the problem for all players? Nah. Let's kick damage mods in the taint, instead. I feel like this is going to make sniping much less viable. Here is some math using a charge sniper rifle as an example: Pre-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.21 (approx. +21% from 3 complex damage mods) = 424.55 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 742.97 per head shot. Post-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.11 (approx. +11% from 3 complex damage mods) = 389.47 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 681.56 per head shot. This turns out to be about an 8.3% difference in total damage output. I don't think this is too big a deal on its own, but I keep reading all sorts of things about dual-tanking becoming the norm, buffs to shield mods (couldn't find anything from the devs about this, but I've read it in numerous threads), etc. If these ideas carry any weight, I can foresee OHK sniping (aka, sniping) becoming a sweet memory. Maybe none of this will matter with the way damage types, racial suits, and resistances are rebalanced? I'm doubtful this is the case. Thoughts? Feelings? I understand that 1.8 might hurt sniping, it is going to hurt everything but Sents and Tanks. There will be far less logi skater totes (900-1000) eHP floating around and a massive increase in scouts who can be one shot'd.. I'm. It saying there is a trade off here, I am just saying there might be more targets at lower eHP as people will abandon assault class for Cal and Ama scout suits. Secondly, it appears from SS that there will be more than one Sniper Rifle, more than one type of Nova Knife. This leads me to believe that snipers might be getting more options of which type of weapon they want to fire. Although no details have been released and I've only seen pictures of what looks to be new knifes and long range rifles, it appears this will help snipers in the future. Not saying 1.8 will be a friendly place with eHP everywhere and dam mods lowered, but snipers in general should be fighting for better sniping positions around the map to allowed for more varied play and positioning for 1.8. It appears the commando might be the best suit for sniping due to racial bonus and high eHP, scout suits will offer 2 equipment slots and the Cal and Gal bonuses are both strong for a sniper. There are more options in suits, hopefully more soft targets, and i really hope more type of SR to be released to have a variety type of weapon (rail, plasma etc). It doesn't matter if one race is the long range type, its a war and in war every side should have a sniper type,long range rifle. Sniping will always have a role in the game, the skilled snipers can always dictate an outcome or hold off a capture point. I hope every class is a viable option going forward, i hate to see one class or one races heavy (cal,or gal) dominate.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 96	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:32:00 - [9] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Thoughts? Feelings? Good. The useless role of a sniper is further diminished. Sorry, you asked. I was waiting for someone to say this, and I can't say I'm surprised it was you! My other dropsuit is a Python.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 781	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:34:00 - [10] - Quote I am, at least, very consistent in this regard. :)

Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 597	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:39:00 - [11] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: buffs to shield mods Shield mods aren't getting buffed, although... Complex Shield Regulators need a buff from 25% to 30%. What's happening is damage mods (ENH and mostly COM as you point out) are getting a nerf. Since damage mods and shield extenders occupy high slots, the question is which to use. Armor tankers have nothing useful to put in the highs except damage mods, so that seems obvious. The question comes when consider HP values. Will I get more benefit out of doing 5% more damage to you, or gaining 77 shield HP, effectively meaning you do X% less damage to me? That's the school of thought there. I still think damage mods will be useful because the extenders are only helpful if you're getting shot. The obvious solution is to kill them before they shoot you. Hope I explained myself well. Make sense? DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 96	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:03:00 - [12] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: buffs to shield mods Shield mods aren't getting buffed, although... Complex Shield Regulators need a buff from 25% to 30%. What's happening is damage mods (ENH and mostly COM as you point out) are getting a nerf. Since damage mods and shield extenders occupy high slots, the question is which to use. Armor tankers have nothing useful to put in the highs except damage mods, so that seems obvious. The question comes when consider HP values. Will I get more benefit out of doing 5% more damage to you, or gaining 77 shield HP, effectively meaning you do X% less damage to me? That's the school of thought there. I still think damage mods will be useful because the extenders are only helpful if you're getting shot. The obvious solution is to kill them before they shoot you. Hope I explained myself well. Make sense? Aren't shield regulators a type of shield module? To clarify: by "shield mods" I mean "shield modules"; by "damage mod" I mean "damage modifier", which is a specific type of module. My other dropsuit is a Python.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 297	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:12:00 - [13] - Quote I pretty much like the damage mod nerf even though I too just recently skilled into them. I am not sure the differential between advanced and complex makes sense though. I'm glad snipers take a hit, hiding in the redline and shooting people 400 meters away is not exactly fair, but it is debatable. Because, that's why.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 813	Posted - 2014.03.12 20:59:00 - [14] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Thoughts? Feelings? Good. The useless role of a sniper is further diminished. Sorry, you asked. Ahhhh ... The age-old dance continues. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Noremac Nagaho Red Hand Syndicate 36	Posted - 2014.03.12 21:16:00 - [15] - Quote Come on, there are so many pros to becoming a caldari commando sniper: 1. You look BADASS, master chief with black digi camo and red highlights (aurum ck.0 prediction) 2. You can do an extra 10% damage over other suit options (bringing you back up to pre-1.8 power) 3. Your sidearm is another light weapon (likely another sniper rifle or rail rifle) 4. You have high EHP but, unlike heavy snipers, you have room for a nanohive
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 194	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:23:00 - [16] - Quote Noremac Nagaho wrote: Come on, there are so many pros to becoming a caldari commando sniper: 1. You look BADASS, master chief with black digi camo and red highlights (aurum ck.0 prediction) 2. You can do an extra 10% damage over other suit options (bringing you back up to pre-1.8 power) 3. Your sidearm is another light weapon (likely another sniper rifle or rail rifle) 4. You have high EHP but, unlike heavy snipers, you have room for a nanohive Guess I'm not the only one who thinks the Cal heavy looks like Master Chief.. ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
NOAMIzzzzz Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 106	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:25:00 - [17] - Quote WHO CARES.
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 194	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:36:00 - [18] - Quote Noremac Nagaho wrote: Come on, there are so many pros to becoming a caldari commando sniper: 1. You look BADASS, master chief with black digi camo and red highlights (aurum ck.0 prediction) 2. You can do an extra 10% damage over other suit options (bringing you back up to pre-1.8 power) 3. Your sidearm is another light weapon (likely another sniper rifle or rail rifle) 4. You have high EHP but, unlike heavy snipers, you have room for a nanohive Also your right about the incentives to using the Cal heavy (I just hate the larger scan profile though) especially with the lower TTK. Either way will just have to play with the different setups to find out what works. ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 97	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:38:00 - [19] - Quote Noremac Nagaho wrote: Come on, there are so many pros to becoming a caldari commando sniper: 1. You look BADASS, master chief with black digi camo and red highlights (aurum ck.0 prediction) 2. You can do an extra 10% damage over other suit options (bringing you back up to pre-1.8 power) 3. Your sidearm is another light weapon (likely another sniper rifle or rail rifle) 4. You have high EHP but, unlike heavy snipers, you have room for a nanohive You make some good points, but: 1) I don't particularly care about cosmetics, though I agree. 2) I don't like the notion of swapping complex damage mods that significantly boost any weapon on any suit, in favor of severely handicapped complex damage mods that do the same + a set of heavy suits with racial weapon damage bonuses. To be sure, the commando suits are awesome and long overdue, but with the nerf to damage mods, they're massively OP compared to other suits. Consider the following: as it stands now, the best you'd hope for is Proficiency 5 (+15%) and three complex damage mods (cuz more than that is pretty useless; this adds about 21% to your damage output). That puts you at about 36% possible increased damage at present. But with the new stats for complex damage mods (+5%, for a total of about 12% if you stack three), the max will be about 27%. A proto commando suit (+15% to racial weapon damage) with Proficiency 5 on a relevant racial weapon (another +15%), with the ~12% granted from stacking 3 complex damage mods will receive a damage bonus of about 42%. That's about a 15% difference between the maximum potential damage output of commando suits vs all others! Considering that complex damage mods now only give a 5% bonus, that's flippin' HUGE! In other words, the difference between max potential damage output is greater than stacking 4 complex damage mods after they get "rebalanced"! 3) This is cool when you're up in the action, moving around in the fray, but as a sniper, I prefer to stay well back, skimming the perimeter, using my sidearm only as necessary. Prefer not to have to brawl with reds when my strategy is to hit them from afar. 4) True, but I'd also like an uplink and maybe another nanohive. Also, it's not too hard to get an Amarr logi suit to almost 1000 EHP, (which is enough to tank a headshot from a Thale's sniper with Proficiency 5 and GTFO) and it has three equipment slots. Just sayin'. When has another module/weapon/whatever had its proto-level variant "rebalanced" into its advanced-level variant? I am asking this honestly--I've only been playing a little less than a year (well, I've had this toon that long, only really been playing about 6 months). My other dropsuit is a Python.
Rusty Shallows 1088	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:41:00 - [20] - Quote Kaughst wrote: Caldari Commando? O wait..rail rifles..yea..sorry? Sniper Rifles use Hybrid - Rail for the Damage Type. That was a good play off the thread title. Edit: Darn you Costy8! +1 you beautiful b@satard. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game

Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 104	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:42:00 - [21] - Quote People don't understand how hard it is to be a sniper... you have to have the hardest hitting sniper rifle in the game, three damage mods, and a few levels in sniper rifle proficiency just to one-hit a 100% free suit. Seriously, how often do you get killed by a standard or militia sniper rifle? almost never. G0DS AM0NG MEN Director - Fully Support a Respec for 1.8
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 97	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:44:00 - [22] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: People don't understand how hard it is to be a sniper... you have to have the hardest hitting sniper rifle in the game, three damage mods, and a few levels in sniper rifle proficiency just to one-hit a 100% free suit. Seriously, how often do you get killed by a standard or militia sniper rifle? almost never. Pretty much only when I'm running a scout suit, and that's how it should be! My other dropsuit is a Python.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5189	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:47:00 - [23] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Thoughts? Feelings? Good. The useless role of a sniper is further diminished. Sorry, you asked. It's only useless because the community keeps bastardizing it's role as some KDR focused playstyle... There are some of us who focus more on the teamwork aspect of calling out targets long before they're within scanner range and eliminating/damaging high value targets before they become a problem (shotgun scouts, logistics healing heavies, etc). This is made more problematic because there is the stereotype that all snipers are KDR padding cowards who hide behind the redline, this isn't the case. Incidentally it's that same stereotype that almost guarantees you'll be team-killed in Faction Warfare if you're using the Thales. Snipers need more tools and more capability to make them a viable force multiplier, not constant nerfs to their playstyle and changes to map design that insinuate the community's general hatred of them. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 11	Posted - 2014.03.12 23:32:00 - [24] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Thoughts? Feelings? Good. The useless role of a sniper is further diminished. Sorry, you asked. It's only useless because the community keeps bastardizing it's role as some KDR focused playstyle... There are some of us who focus more on the teamwork aspect of calling out targets long before they're within scanner range and eliminating/damaging high value targets before they become a problem (shotgun scouts, logistics healing heavies, etc). This is made more problematic because there is the stereotype that all snipers are KDR padding cowards who hide behind the redline, this isn't the case. Incidentally it's that same stereotype that almost guarantees you'll be team-killed in Faction Warfare if you're using the Thales. Snipers need more tools and more capability to make them a viable force multiplier, not constant nerfs to their playstyle and changes to map design that insinuate the community's general hatred of them. Already posted on my alt about this in the feedback section a couple days ago with quite a lengthy and well thought out post. Tools, role, purpose, fixes, buffs, play style, map design, etc. When I play solo, I can do whatever, but when I run in a squad, I do call outs and eliminate priority targets. Once I get a HD PVR, I'll show these cats what a sniper can do in and out of the red, solo and in team a setting. Been wanting to do montages for a while but atm I'm heading down the PC Gaming/PS4 route. I see you coming from a mile away.
Fenrir XIII Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 20	Posted - 2014.03.12 23:44:00 - [25] - Quote lol Wait til he finds out they're nerfing the equipment.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1611	Posted - 2014.03.12 23:50:00 - [26] - Quote This game is balanced around the assault rifles. I thought the community knew that already. That's why most weapons other than the standard-issue rifles can't compare against them.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 11	Posted - 2014.03.12 23:58:00 - [27] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I pretty much like the damage mod nerf even though I too just recently skilled into them. I am not sure the differential between advanced and complex makes sense though. I'm glad snipers take a hit, hiding in the redline and shooting people 400 meters away is not exactly fair, but it is debatable. You do know that's what snipers do in real life, right? Shoot people from hundreds of meters away. It's not meant to be fair, but in terms of game design, maps will have to be reworked to have closer cover as well as changes in sniping mechanics in order to see snipers work effectively in medium range engagements as well as long range. That's only part of their role. The other part is intel. You can refer to this post https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1926856#post1926856 on my suggestions to improve the class and role. The top part is about Infiltration and Recon tools, while the bottom half is about sniping. On this character I plan on going Cal Commando to counteract the dmg mod hit, while on my alt, I plan on going Cal/Gal Scout, hence the post on my Scout. As for sniping within 400m, I went 28-1 just yesterday with back to back kills shown on the K/D chart. My farthest kill was 143 meters away, well within range of anyone's optimal range of fire, and yes, we did win the match. I'd say that's a fair distance. With current map design, it really depends on the map atm. Just be patient my fellow snipers. More racial SR variants are in the pipes. Our time will come. I see you coming from a mile away.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 817	Posted - 2014.03.13 00:33:00 - [28] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: High scan profile shouldn't matter to a sniper working from a distance. You only light up if someone is pointing their weapon at you. But it does affect counter-sniping. More dampers make it harder to show your enemy a red chevron. The more dampers you have on, the more directly your opponent has to aim at you. I don't know if this is still the case but a few versions back I remember looking right at a scout and getting nothing on my reticule. Munch Minmatar Patriot (Level 7) Dedicated Sniper
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 76	Posted - 2014.03.13 00:53:00 - [29] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: People don't understand how hard it is to be a sniper... you have to have the hardest hitting sniper rifle in the game, three damage mods, and a few levels in sniper rifle proficiency just to one-hit a 100% free suit. Seriously, how often do you get killed by a standard or militia sniper rifle? almost never. 100% free suit or a MLT Gallente with 3 basic plates? I'm pretty sure most starter outfits that are 100% free are OHK to the head. I would have much preferred to see a scout suit become the ultimate sniper. They should be glass cannons not semi mobile turrets sitting in the redline. People were worried about scout cloaks. I said they should be worried about the next generation of heavy snipers who cannot be one shot to the head. They will be in the redline, head just visible and will retreat behind cover if hit. Someone did not do the calcs when they created the new generation. So which heavy will get resistance to sniper rifles.. Thy will be the most popular (anti)/sniper on a hill.
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 195	Posted - 2014.03.13 01:05:00 - [30] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: People don't understand how hard it is to be a sniper... you have to have the hardest hitting sniper rifle in the game, three damage mods, and a few levels in sniper rifle proficiency just to one-hit a 100% free suit. Seriously, how often do you get killed by a standard or militia sniper rifle? almost never. 100% free suit or a MLT Gallente with 3 basic plates? I'm pretty sure most starter outfits that are 100% free are OHK to the head. I would have much preferred to see a scout suit become the ultimate sniper. They should be glass cannons not semi mobile turrets sitting in the redline. People were worried about scout cloaks. I said they should be worried about the next generation of heavy snipers who cannot be one shot to the head. They will be in the redline, head just visible and will retreat behind cover if hit. Someone did not do the calcs when they created the new generation. So which heavy will get resistance to sniper rifles.. Thy will be the most popular (anti)/sniper on a hill. hmm I'm guessing Gal heavy & Amarr heavy. Gallente Sentinel Bonus: 3% armor resistance to hybrid - railgun weapons per level. 2% armor resistance to projectile weapons per level. Amarr Sentinel Bonus: 3% armor resistance to projectile weapons per level. 2% shield resistance to hybrid - railgun weapons per level. ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 76	Posted - 2014.03.13 01:08:00 - [31] - Quote Amarr Sentinel as you can stack more armor for a higher benefit and there already is a bunch of those snipers out there.
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns 41	Posted - 2014.03.13 01:20:00 - [32] - Quote I read the title of the OP and finished it in my head thinking "...is going to suck." Didn't even need to read the OP. But I did. And then I realized that I have 3 points in damage mods. Which, I suppose, leaves me in a pretty good spot compared to all the people that had them maxed and then got hit with the nerfhammer. So glad I only have 3 points in Sniper Rifles. Minny Commando with ACR and MD (as I had planned all along), here I come...
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns 41	Posted - 2014.03.13 01:22:00 - [33] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: People don't understand how hard it is to be a sniper... you have to have the hardest hitting sniper rifle in the game, three damage mods, and a few levels in sniper rifle proficiency just to one-hit a 100% free suit. Seriously, how often do you get killed by a standard or militia sniper rifle? almost never. 100% free suit or a MLT Gallente with 3 basic plates? I'm pretty sure most starter outfits that are 100% free are OHK to the head. I would have much preferred to see a scout suit become the ultimate sniper. They should be glass cannons not semi mobile turrets sitting in the redline. People were worried about scout cloaks. I said they should be worried about the next generation of heavy snipers who cannot be one shot to the head. They will be in the redline, head just visible and will retreat behind cover if hit. Someone did not do the calcs when they created the new generation. So which heavy will get resistance to sniper rifles.. Thy will be the most popular (anti)/sniper on a hill. Commando ck.0 stacking damage mods with a Charge SR will be the most dangerous sniper in the game now.
Appia Vibbia Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1426	Posted - 2014.03.13 01:53:00 - [34] - Quote Only problem I see in this thread is the OPs damage calculations. Shield body shot does 90%, Shield head shot does 175%, armor body shot does 110% and armor headshot does 214% If you want to calculate raw damage you need to use 194.5 as they headshot multiplier. Though Effective Damage varies do to shield and armor values of different suits. So 1.7 Raw damage on a charge sniper rifle with prof 5 and 5 damage mods is 950 with max stats, minimum damage is 855 while ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM damage a prototype sniper rifle, with prof 5 and 5 damage mods can do is 1045 damage. so 1154 is the absolute max damage a thales can do in 1.7 Is this reasonable? To make 5 damage mods, proficiency 5, and an officer weapon. So lets say I have a basic heavy. atm 480 shields, 480 armor. I add 1 basic shield extender, a basic armor plate and a basic armor repairer. base shields and armor increase to 504 because of armor and shield upgrades to level 1. shields become 527 because of basic shield extender and shield extension level 1. armor becomes 570. The basic heavy now has 1097 total HP. To calculate EHP we do HP/modifier 527/1.75=301 while 570/2.14 = 266. So, our basic heavy suit with 1 basic shield and 1 basic armor plate has an EHP of 567 against Sniper Rifle Headshots. Thale's = 355.3, proficiency is +15%, 5 damage mods is +31.34% or so, 355.31.151.3134= 536.65 damage. Is... is there a problem here? That's not even 500,000 SP invested versus the absolute maximum damage the most dedicated sniper can possibly do with a weapon that you can't restock. I think I'll just go make a whole EHP chart about this. The Sniper Rifle is not balanced. Poor hit-detection, teleporting infantry (from lag), useless from within 100m, and lacks the DPS or high-alpha damage to do anything but annoy players like mosquitoes or steal a blue-dot's kill. Not to mention the terrain errors and **-poor rendering on surface installations and hills. ** that's where you see pub-snipers gravitate to, the places where they can glitch into the terrain to ignore damage from CQC, or blend into it so they can't be counter-sniped. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com (checked every Monday/Wednesday/Friday)
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 301	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:04:00 - [35] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I pretty much like the damage mod nerf even though I too just recently skilled into them. I am not sure the differential between advanced and complex makes sense though. I'm glad snipers take a hit, hiding in the redline and shooting people 400 meters away is not exactly fair, but it is debatable. You do know that's what snipers do in real life, right? Shoot people from hundreds of meters away. It's not meant to be fair, but in terms of game design, maps will have to be reworked to have closer cover as well as changes in sniping mechanics in order to see snipers work effectively in medium range engagements as well as long range. That's only part of their role. The other part is intel. You can refer to this post https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1926856#post1926856 on my suggestions to improve the class and role. The top part is about Infiltration and Recon tools, while the bottom half is about sniping. On this character I plan on going Cal Commando to counteract the dmg mod hit, while on my alt, I plan on going Cal/Gal Scout, hence the post on my Scout. As for sniping within 400m, I went 28-1 just yesterday with back to back kills shown on the K/D chart. My farthest kill was 143 meters away, well within range of anyone's optimal range of fire, and yes, we did win the match. I'd say that's a fair distance. With current map design, it really depends on the map atm. Just be patient my fellow snipers. More racial SR variants are in the pipes. Our time will come. Real life comparisons are not relevant, this is not real warfare if we attempt to duplicate war no one will play. Most of the value if a sniper you list can be done by a scout. I have no doubt that there are snipers like yourself who are an asset to any team, the problem is the many more who are not and those wishing to enhance the features that contribute to this. Because, that's why.
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 79	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:33:00 - [36] - Quote Snipers might just have to use teamwork to get a kill ;)
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1525	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:50:00 - [37] - Quote Already, the thought of a sniper in a heavy suit is moving the role further down the drain. Sniper role light suit, bonus to sniping. CCP DO IT NOW! Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:57:00 - [38] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Real life comparisons are not relevant, this is not real warfare if we attempt to duplicate war no one will play. Most of the value of a sniper you list can be done by a scout. I have no doubt that there are snipers like yourself who are an asset to any team, the problem is the many more who are not and those wishing to enhance the features that contribute to this. That's why I mentioned it in game terms, but regardless, sniping is still generally done from a distance, in game or not. If you read the feedback post/link I mentioned, it directly coincides with not only fixes for snipers, but how these changes would impact other classes as well. The suggestions discourage camping red line sniping and promote a more active role for the snipers on the field, even if they are more vulnerable. Not all snipers run a scout suit to snipe in, nor are all scouts snipers, but in that post, I mention the benefits of doing it in a Scout suit - at least how it's envisioned. How I see it is, we should be able to dish out enough high alpha damage in order to kill our enemies or wound them enough for our team mates to pick them off, while being able to use tools to enhance our class within a squad, but we should be glass cannons in exchange. Currently, it's more beneficial to brick tank your suits and increase your survivability than it is to be mobile. Commandos having the only bonus to hybrid-rail weapons, while being slow, only serves to promote that. That may change in the coming patches, but a lot has to change before that's possible. I see you coming from a mile away.
SPESHULz The Southern Legion 25	Posted - 2014.03.13 08:50:00 - [39] - Quote typical sniper ****** egocentric logic. everyone is getting dam mod nerf while ARs getting a real nerf. You will still be doing more dam then LR the next closest range weapon. Blah blah blah you are still going to be 2 shotting anyone not a heavy while head glitching in the red line under the mcc so no one can kill you. Lord High Commander Maths is OP. After all it is all those numbers flying around that kills you.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1629	Posted - 2014.03.13 09:09:00 - [40] - Quote gently caresses stockpile of saved up Thale's 1.8 will not affect my sniper fitting because I stack shield extenders and armor plates on it. With a Thales in my hand, I am god mode.

Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 118	Posted - 2014.03.13 09:32:00 - [41] - Quote Sniping in most games tends to be anti-fun, the whole 1 shot kill from beyond the range of every other weapon in the game is pure boredom... Unless someone can come up with a way of balancing this, the sniper will have to stay underpowered. Perhaps significantly dropping the range so that people actually have to be in the battle to use it would allow the headshot 1 hit kill mechanic to come into place. Could always have that as a separate kind of sniper, while leaving the super ranged mosquito in tact to scratch dropsuits from the redzone. Edit- Another idea would involve adding a variable scope and increasing the damage the closer you are to the target, giving an incentive to move around the battle field with it, while it does bugger all at maximum range, same as most other weapons.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 829	Posted - 2014.03.13 10:00:00 - [42] - Quote Snipers expecting OHK is ridiculous unless balanced out by only being able to be fit on a weak suit that is able to be OHK itself. Glass cannons. As it stands, a heavy with a sniper would be OP if snipers could reliably OHK a fitted suit. That said, snipers need a role beyond killing from very far away. Making them more about recon than about killing could solve a lot of problems. Perhaps buff their damage and nerf their ammo capacity. Refilling one sniper round could eat up a lot of nanites from a hive, meaning a sniper would need to have a lot of nanites on him or have a lot of buddies supplying him. In return, he can mark individual people to show up like they were scanned by a scanner. They are scanned for 5 seconds. Tie the scanning ability to a suits scan precision. if their dampening beats your precision, they cannot be scanned. This makes the CalScout the best sniper, since it will have the best precision possible. Perhaps tie scope sway to the suit size wielding the sniper rifle. The lighter the suit, the less the sway. Heavies would always have sway regardless of skill in snipers (reduces scope sway by 25%) Mediums could remove scope sway at level 4-5, and light suits could remove scope sway at level 1-2. Whatever the case, make it behoove the sniper to fit a light or scout suit to go sniping with. Then countersniping will be that much easier, since we aren't dealing with brick tanked suits from the redline. Then a sniper will want to move to different positions so as to not lose their Thale's to countersnipers, and militia sniper rifles will be useful to pick off redline snipers. Best PVE idea I've seen.
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 99	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:09:00 - [43] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Only problem I see in this thread is the OPs damage calculations. Shield body shot does 90%, Shield head shot does 175%, armor body shot does 110% and armor headshot does 214% If you want to calculate raw damage you need to use 194.5 as they headshot multiplier. Though Effective Damage varies do to shield and armor values of different suits. So 1.7 Raw damage on a charge sniper rifle with prof 5 and 5 damage mods is 950 with max stats, minimum damage is 855 while ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM damage a prototype sniper rifle, with prof 5 and 5 damage mods can do is 1045 damage. so 1154 is the absolute max damage a thales can do in 1.7 Is this reasonable? To make 5 damage mods, proficiency 5, and an officer weapon. So lets say I have a basic heavy. atm 480 shields, 480 armor. I add 1 basic shield extender, a basic armor plate and a basic armor repairer. base shields and armor increase to 504 because of armor and shield upgrades to level 1. shields become 527 because of basic shield extender and shield extension level 1. armor becomes 570. The basic heavy now has 1097 total HP. To calculate EHP we do HP/modifier 527/1.75=301 while 570/2.14 = 266. So, our basic heavy suit with 1 basic shield and 1 basic armor plate has an EHP of 567 against Sniper Rifle Headshots. Thale's = 355.3, proficiency is +15%, 5 damage mods is +31.34% or so, 355.31.151.3134= 536.65 damage. Is... is there a problem here? That's not even 500,000 SP invested versus the absolute maximum damage the most dedicated sniper can possibly do with a weapon that you can't restock. I think I'll just go make a whole EHP chart about this. The Sniper Rifle is not balanced. Poor hit-detection, teleporting infantry (from lag), useless from within 100m, and lacks the DPS or high-alpha damage to do anything but annoy players like mosquitoes or steal a blue-dot's kill. Not to mention the terrain errors and **-poor rendering on surface installations and hills. that's where you see pub-snipers gravitate to, the places where they can glitch into the terrain to ignore damage from CQC, or blend into it so they can't be counter-sniped. Thanks for clarifying/cleaning up the calculations, Apple--the situation is more grim than I thought when applying the shield/armor bonuses! I found a stacking penalty calculator online and the reduction per addition module wasn't nearly as bad as I imagined. Either way, though, the situation is dubious. In terms of raw output, before taking the target's defensive bonuses into account, I calculated the following. Does it look right to you? I edited it slightly from an earlier post, with the new numbers in mind. I chose to use 3 complex damage mods as the "max" since there are only three suits, all prototype, with more than 3 high slots (namely, the Caldari & Minmatar logi suits and the Caldari assault, with 5/4/4 respectively). CRNWLLC wrote:** Consider the following: as it stands now, the best you'd hope for is Proficiency 5 (+15%) and three complex damage mods 26%. That puts you at about 41% possible increased damage at present. But with the new stats for complex damage mods (+5%, for a total of about 13% if you stack three), the max will be about 28%. A proto commando suit (+15% to racial weapon damage) with Proficiency 5 on a relevant racial weapon (another +15%), with the ~13% granted from stacking 3 complex damage mods (the most it can stack) will receive a cumulative damage bonus of about 43%. That's about a 15% difference between the maximum potential damage output of commando suits vs all others! Considering that complex damage mods now only give a 5% bonus, that's flippin' HUGE! In other words, the difference between max potential damage output between commandos and every other suit is greater than stacking 4 complex damage mods after they get "rebalanced"! Just to add to the controversy, I say that sniping is fun, especially hitting moving targets in the head from 400m away. Sniping is what it is, and what is it is is a long-range role. Cowardly? Unfair? Moral judgements are irrelevant--this is a game and it's an enjoyable and strategically useful playstyle. Bravery and courage IRL are only possible when one is scared, has a reason to suspect things will end badly. Unfortunately this is not the case for a video game, nor the numerous frontline vets that engage in the oft-bemoaned "protostomping". My other dropsuit is a Python.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5662	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:45:00 - [44] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Thoughts? Feelings? Good. The useless role of a sniper is further diminished. Sorry, you asked. Useless you say? AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Kaughst Nyain San Renegade Alliance 287	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:17:00 - [45] - Quote I have been thinking about how the effective the combat rifle is in terms of damage against everything both shields and armor within it's range...That is why when they release the precision rifle, while the second shortest range, it might have a rather fast ROF and still enough do damage to overcome the current Sniper Rifle...we just wont see to many red line snipers or ones on top of very high towers. "That is not how you say my name." "How do you say your name?" "I don't know but that is not how you say it."
Appia Vibbia Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1434	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:46:00 - [46] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Consider the following: as it stands now, the best you'd hope for is Proficiency 5 (+15%) and three complex damage mods 26%. That puts you at about 41% possible increased damage** at present. But with the new stats for complex damage mods (+5%, for a total of about 13% if you stack three), the max will be about 28%. A proto commando suit (+15% to racial weapon damage) with Proficiency 5 on a relevant racial weapon (another +15%), *** with the ~13% granted from stacking 3 complex damage mods (the most it can stack) will receive a cumulative damage bonus of about 43%**. That's about a 15% difference between the maximum potential damage output of commando suits vs all others! Considering that complex damage mods now only give a 5% bonus, that's flippin' HUGE! In other words, the difference between max potential damage output between commandos and every other suit is greater than stacking 4 complex damage mods after they get "rebalanced"! Just to add to the controversy, I say that sniping is fun, especially hitting moving targets in the head from 400m away. Sniping is what it is, and what is it is is a long-range role. Cowardly? Unfair? Moral judgements are irrelevant--this is a game and it's an enjoyable and strategically useful playstyle. Bravery and courage IRL are only possible when one is scared, has a reason to suspect things will end badly. Unfortunately this is not the case for a video game, nor the numerous frontline vets that engage in the oft-bemoaned "protostomping". It's actually 44.9%. You don't add percentages but apply them 1 after the other. so 11.151.26=1.449. * to get an approximation you can half proficiency's values because it now only applies to shields or armor ** 39.7% is a better approximation/average. Or you can just say it has a range of 29.95%-49.44%. A difference of 16.95%-14.54% depending on armor to shield ratios. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com (checked every Monday/Wednesday/Friday)
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 101	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:53:00 - [47] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: Consider the following: as it stands now, the best you'd hope for is Proficiency 5 (+15%) and three complex damage mods 26%. That puts you at about 41% possible increased damage** at present. But with the new stats for complex damage mods (+5%, for a total of about 13% if you stack three), the max will be about 28%. A proto commando suit (+15% to racial weapon damage) with Proficiency 5 on a relevant racial weapon (another +15%), *** with the ~13% granted from stacking 3 complex damage mods (the most it can stack) will receive a cumulative damage bonus of about 43%**. That's about a 15% difference between the maximum potential damage output of commando suits vs all others! Considering that complex damage mods now only give a 5% bonus, that's flippin' HUGE! In other words, the difference between max potential damage output between commandos and every other suit is greater than stacking 4 complex damage mods after they get "rebalanced"! Just to add to the controversy, I say that sniping is fun, especially hitting moving targets in the head from 400m away. Sniping is what it is, and what is it is is a long-range role. Cowardly? Unfair? Moral judgements are irrelevant--this is a game and it's an enjoyable and strategically useful playstyle. Bravery and courage IRL are only possible when one is scared, has a reason to suspect things will end badly. Unfortunately this is not the case for a video game, nor the numerous frontline vets that engage in the oft-bemoaned "protostomping". It's actually 44.9%. You don't add percentages but apply them 1 after the other. so 11.151.26=1.449. * to get an approximation you can half proficiency's values because it now only applies to shields or armor ** 39.7% is a better approximation/average. Or you can just say it has a range of 29.95%-49.44%. A difference of 16.95%-14.54% depending on armor to shield ratios. Thanks, Appia! Appreciate all the help with clarifying calculations. Any way you slice it, though, those Commando suits have massively OP damage outputs compared to all other suits. PS: Please excuse my initial misreading of your name as "Apple"! My other dropsuit is a Python.
Appia Vibbia Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1435	Posted - 2014.03.13 22:12:00 - [48] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Snipers expecting OHK is ridiculous unless balanced out by only being able to be fit on a weak suit that is able to be OHK itself. Glass cannons. As it stands, a heavy with a sniper would be OP if snipers could reliably OHK a fitted suit. That said, snipers need a role beyond killing from very far away. Making them more about recon than about killing could solve a lot of problems. Perhaps buff their damage and nerf their ammo capacity. Refilling one sniper round could eat up a lot of nanites from a hive, meaning a sniper would need to have a lot of nanites on him or have a lot of buddies supplying him. In return, he can mark individual people to show up like they were scanned by a scanner. They are scanned for 5 seconds. Tie the scanning ability to a suits scan precision. if their dampening beats your precision, they cannot be scanned. This makes the CalScout the best sniper, since it will have the best precision possible. Perhaps tie scope sway to the suit size wielding the sniper rifle. The lighter the suit, the less the sway. Heavies would always have sway regardless of skill in snipers (reduces scope sway by 25%) Mediums could remove scope sway at level 4-5, and light suits could remove scope sway at level 1-2. Whatever the case, make it behoove the sniper to fit a light or scout suit to go sniping with. Then countersniping will be that much easier, since we aren't dealing with brick tanked suits from the redline. Then a sniper will want to move to different positions so as to not lose their Thale's to countersnipers, and militia sniper rifles will be useful to pick off redline snipers. That'd be cool if sway was like the apparently described cloak's shimmering. It was said to have less shimmer on a scout than other suits that use it. What if scope sway was tied into movement speed? It would give bit of inherent difference to the different role suits but also penalize the use of stacking armor plates. I loved the concept of that the uprising 1.0 trailer had about sniper. They showed a scout sniper, called them a glass cannon, and he got killed form behind. Then they showed the same location with a heavy suit, said you could tank it out, the sniper got shot, turned around and killed the AR user with his SMG. The idea that there are are wide variety of different ways to build a sniper suit would be great... but right now, the scout doesn't have the high-slots to deal enough damage, the only glass cannon is the Minmatar Assault, While a Caldari-Logi can get 3 complex plates, a CPU extender, and 5 damage mods. Or a Gallente Logi can get 3 damage mods, 4 complex plates and an enhanced plate to get its EHP above that 1056 max damage threshold. Or a heavy can use 2 damage mods and innately have the HP to survive a head shot from Shield & Armor upgrades without any HP modules I really think the sniper is in a bad place, it's not viable in competitive play without a tanked out Logi suit and a Thale's. I understand that snipers are going to take out the best weapon they can fit with the most damage mods possible in pub matches too. But by protecting pub players from snipers has crippled PC snipers. Suits without 3+ high slots just aren't good for sniping because they can't do enough damage. I can still have fun in a Scout suit with a sniper rifle, or my C-1 'Covenant' Assault with 'Covenant' Sniper Rifle (yeah, I dropped $50USD on this game in a single purchase because my love for sniping in any and all games) I can quick-scope for lolz or I can depend on my trusty SMG or Scrambler Pistol ( I miss my flaylock, I don't care about damage, I just want an AV sidearm to stop Pythons and Incubuses from shooting me and other dropships from trying to land on me) I loved running recon with my sniper rifle. If a sniper rifle had Target Painting abilities that would be sexy, however as long as the rendering system is in its current form a sniper is more dependent on an ally using an Active Scanner to get the enemy players to render. Which negates the ability for Recon. "oh darn, I'm out of ammo!" or "lot's of guys over here!" are calls to get my attention. I love helping my squad-mates out by killing those guys harassing my buddies but I miss being the one to warn them of incoming enemies. I miss the sighs of inevitability or the curses of frustration when people saw my name because they knew I was sniping, not just "oh great a pubstomper from [current corp]" regardless of the fact I use basic suits in pubs. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com (checked every Monday/Wednesday/Friday) AKA Nappia AKA Mathppia
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 206	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:18:00 - [49] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I miss the sighs of inevitability or the curses of frustration when people saw my name because they knew I was sniping, not just "oh great a pubstomper from [current corp]" regardless of the fact I use basic suits in pubs. I know what you mean I miss the counter sniping attempts or the shotgun scouts coming to kill me, I miss the ability to take out adv or proto suits with headshots, I miss quick scoping my way to the top of the leader board but the problem is not that dmg mods are worse its the sniper rifles themselves I shouldn't need 3 dmg mods and a proto sniper to be effective in pc ............... the biggest fixes snipers need is a hit detection fix and an increase to the headshot multiplier its 195% (175.5% shields, 214.5% armor) should be like 275% imo scout suit 300 > ehp : G£ö cal fw "terrible blueberries" : G£ö stacked red team : G£ö "still too easy - knives only"
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2045	Posted - 2014.03.14 01:31:00 - [50] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Snipers expecting OHK is ridiculous unless balanced out by only being able to be fit on a weak suit that is able to be OHK itself. Glass cannons. As it stands, a heavy with a sniper would be OP if snipers could reliably OHK a fitted suit. Riiight. Because you should be able to one-shot a tank, or LAV right? OHK is an expectation for sniping. There are other downsides besides being OHK oneself. For instance, the cost of the rifles, the lack of being on the battlefield itself in many cases leading to less WP, etc. Snipers should be able to OHK in ideal situations. To think otherwise is silly.

dsadfghfdf Ametat Security Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:18:00 - [51] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: I miss the sighs of inevitability or the curses of frustration when people saw my name because they knew I was sniping, not just "oh great a pubstomper from [current corp]" regardless of the fact I use basic suits in pubs. I know what you mean I miss the counter sniping attempts or the shotgun scouts coming to kill me, I miss the ability to take out adv or proto suits with headshots, I miss quick scoping my way to the top of the leader board but the problem is not that dmg mods are worse its the sniper rifles themselves I shouldn't need 3 dmg mods and a proto sniper to be effective in pc ............... the biggest fixes snipers need is a hit detection fix and an increase to the headshot multiplier its 195% (175.5% shields, 214.5% armor) should be like 275% imo More chromosome nostalgia? You weren't the only ones. OHK made it easy to pull 60+ kills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REQMexPYjmE Adapt or perish.
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 196	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:47:00 - [52] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I just want an AV sidearm to stop Pythons and Incubuses from shooting me and other dropships from trying to land on me Ya at this point I can't even keep count of how many dropships (non-assault mind you) have tried to simply crush me on high towers. Which is why in 1.8 with the new commando suits I'll create a fit with proto swarms an av grenades along with my sniper rifle when on towers. ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Appia Vibbia Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1447	Posted - 2014.03.14 03:52:00 - [53] - Quote dsadfghfdf wrote: Tyjus Vacca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: I miss the sighs of inevitability or the curses of frustration when people saw my name because they knew I was sniping, not just "oh great a pubstomper from [current corp]" regardless of the fact I use basic suits in pubs. I know what you mean I miss the counter sniping attempts or the shotgun scouts coming to kill me, I miss the ability to take out adv or proto suits with headshots, I miss quick scoping my way to the top of the leader board but the problem is not that dmg mods are worse its the sniper rifles themselves I shouldn't need 3 dmg mods and a proto sniper to be effective in pc ............... the biggest fixes snipers need is a hit detection fix and an increase to the headshot multiplier its 195% (175.5% shields, 214.5% armor) should be like 275% imo More chromosome nostalgia? You weren't the only ones. OHK made it easy to pull 60+ kills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REQMexPYjmE Adapt or perish. I adapted, I took up the Scrambler Rifle for its charge shot. I took to the shotgun because it is fun. Then I had 30M SP so I went FOTM because everything else was maxed out Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com (checked every Monday/Wednesday/Friday) AKA Nappia AKA Mathppia
Kuro Yojimbo Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.03.14 04:09:00 - [54] - Quote First and foremost , Snipers are suppose to be "support" types. Meaning , I weaken a red dot for you , you finish him. I see reds creeping up on you , I let you know. That's my job! If you want to see something truly pathethic , look at sniping tanks! Now we are talking major munchkin my friends.... Armed to the teeth , great dmg and incredible range! There is nothing more disgusting than a tank sitting on a hill instead of backing up his fellow blues.... If CCP as to nerf something , they should reduce the tanks speed , remove their targeting reticule and zoom! Otherwise , you'll see ( a lot of vets too) tanks playing chicken and running away when they get their precious monster damaged.... When I get killed by another sniper or someone that bothered to hunt me down all the way... it makes me know I did my job well and that contrary to tanks.... I can't run away that fast nor can take 2000 frigging point of dmg! Besides , snipers can get killed by any and all weapons... not the same with tanks! So who's munchkin now.... that's for Snipers Haters out there... See you on the battlefield my fellow snipers! " what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! Alright , don't mind me if I shoot your face! "
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 101	Posted - 2014.03.14 15:57:00 - [55] - Quote Tyjus Vacca wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: I miss the sighs of inevitability or the curses of frustration when people saw my name because they knew I was sniping, not just "oh great a pubstomper from [current corp]" regardless of the fact I use basic suits in pubs. I know what you mean I miss the counter sniping attempts or the shotgun scouts coming to kill me, I miss the ability to take out adv or proto suits with headshots, I miss quick scoping my way to the top of the leader board but the problem is not that dmg mods are worse its the sniper rifles themselves I shouldn't need 3 dmg mods and a proto sniper to be effective in pc ............... the biggest fixes snipers need is a hit detection fix and an increase to the headshot multiplier its 195% (175.5% shields, 214.5% armor) should be like 275% imo I completely agree with you re: SRs that actually get the job done, but at least it is possible to approach a viable, consistent OHK build with the current complex damage mod bonus, and there were a number of options for doing this. That's definitely not the case after 1.8. My other dropsuit is a Python.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 627	Posted - 2014.03.14 17:16:00 - [56] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: Aren't shield regulators a type of shield module? To clarify: by "shield mods" I mean "shield modules"; by "damage mod" I mean "damage modifier", which is a specific type of module. Right, guess I wasn't clear. Oh well. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3464	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:11:00 - [57] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: I think the idea that a player should have to skill into a particular suit to use a whole class of weapon optimally is ridiculous. You can't be serious. No.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5702	Posted - 2014.03.14 18:13:00 - [58] - Quote Outer Raven wrote: Ya at this point I can't even keep count of how many dropships (non-assault mind you) have tried to simply crush me on high towers. Which is why in 1.8 with the new commando suits I'll create a fit with proto swarms an av grenades along with my sniper rifle when on towers. But Commandos don't have grenade slots. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition 206	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:31:00 - [59] - Quote CRNWLLC wrote: but at least it is possible to approach a viable, consistent OHK build with the current complex damage mod bonus, and there were a number of options for doing this. That's definitely not the case after 1.8. Ive seen snipers stack 5 complex dmg mods with proficiency 5, and do practically the same dmg as me with 3 dmg mods....... the only reliable way to get consistent OHK in PC is to use a thales and non heavies still tank headshots from that.... snipers rifles are just outclassed by so many weapons in so many situations : Ishukone Nova Knives > Ishukone Sniper Rifle and you don't have to stack as many dmg mods :D scout suit 300 > ehp : G£ö cal fw "terrible blueberries" : G£ö stacked red team : G£ö "still too easy - knives only"
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 782	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:42:00 - [60] - Quote I have lvl 2 in snipers and use the basic tactical sniper rifle when im forced to take out a few annoying snipers, I find that hittign targets is far harder than killing them, because anyone who pauses to take a look around dies. I really dont see why you need to one shot every enemy suit just so you feel your balanced. These forums must be located in the Californin country side, there is whine as far as the eye can see.

Kuro Yojimbo Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:50:00 - [61] - Quote It's really simple..... Snipers do not need to instant kill any1.... If you are slightly a teamplayer , you'll wound your little red dot , then jump to the next , allowing your friends to easily dispatch the opponents.... I don't care to not being able to kill instantly...actually , I still do with militia sniper rifle btw.... Sure it's harder than it was , but then again.... What is important it to adjust swarm launchers efficiency vs tanks .... and reduce tank mobility and zoom.... wtf , sniping tank? Gimme a fragging break!!!! Those guys make me wanna puke .... hiding in hav is ten times worse than a redliner... " what doesn't kill you makes you stronger! Alright , don't mind me if I shoot your face! "
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12250	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:55:00 - [62] - Quote I for one would love that SP back. They want from must have modules to joke modules all in one fell swoop Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 283	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:57:00 - [63] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: CRNWLLC wrote: While I sort of understand the rationale behind increased TTK, I am a little concerned about what it means for sniping (and, to a lesser extent, other alpha-focused roles, like shotgun scouts). As it stands, it was clearly a poor decision to recently skill into complex damage mods. Standard level are unchanged (huzzah! ), advanced get nerfed 20% (previously 5%, now 4%), but complex get docked 50 FRICKEN PERCENT (from 10% to 5%)!!!! At least we get dropsuit command skills refunded which is totally fair on its own, since they didn't add or change any equipment in 1.8... This is absurd. What else has been "rebalanced" this extremely? Certainly nothing in 1.7 or 1.8... community--please enlighten me, because I don't understand this. Maybe I'm missing something, but extending TTK seems to be primarily important/relevant to troops on the frontline, most of whom wield high-DPS, automatic weapons. The biggest damage nerf any of the automatic rifles got was 15.6%... hmm... Wonder if nerfing those weapons just a little more would be a more equitable way of dealing with the problem for all players? Nah. Let's kick damage mods in the taint, instead. I feel like this is going to make sniping much less viable. Here is some math using a charge sniper rifle as an example: Pre-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.21 (approx. +21% from 3 complex damage mods) = 424.55 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 742.97 per head shot. Post-1.8 Base damage = 321.9 x 1.09 (+9% from Proficiency 3) = 350.87 x 1.11 (approx. +11% from 3 complex damage mods) = 389.47 x 1.75 (headshot bonus) = 681.56 per head shot. This turns out to be about an 8.3% difference in total damage output. I don't think this is too big a deal on its own, but I keep reading all sorts of things about dual-tanking becoming the norm, buffs to shield mods (couldn't find anything from the devs about this, but I've read it in numerous threads), etc. If these ideas carry any weight, I can foresee OHK sniping (aka, sniping) becoming a sweet memory. Maybe none of this will matter with the way damage types, racial suits, and resistances are rebalanced? I'm doubtful this is the case. Thoughts? Feelings? I understand that 1.8 might hurt sniping, it is going to hurt everything but Sents and Tanks. There will be far less logi skater totes (900-1000) eHP floating around and a massive increase in scouts who can be one shot'd.. I'm. It saying there is a trade off here, I am just saying there might be more targets at lower eHP as people will abandon assault class for Cal and Gal(Corrected for common sense) scout suits. Secondly, it appears from SS that there will be more than one Sniper Rifle, more than one type of Nova Knife. This leads me to believe that snipers might be getting more options of which type of weapon they want to fire. Although no details have been released and I've only seen pictures of what looks to be new knifes and long range rifles, it appears this will help snipers in the future. Not saying 1.8 will be a friendly place with eHP everywhere and dam mods lowered, but snipers in general should be fighting for better sniping positions around the map to allowed for more varied play and positioning for 1.8. It appears the commando might be the best suit for sniping due to racial bonus and high eHP, scout suits will offer 2 equipment slots and the Cal and Gal bonuses are both strong for a sniper. There are more options in suits, hopefully more soft targets, and i really hope more type of SR to be released to have a variety type of weapon (rail, plasma etc). It doesn't matter if one race is the long range type, its a war and in war every side should have a sniper type,long range rifle. Sniping will always have a role in the game, the skilled snipers can always dictate an outcome or hold off a capture point. I hope every class is a viable option going forward, i hate to see one class or one races heavy (cal,or gal) dominate. (n+ëGèÖGÇ+GèÖ)n+ën+PpÇÄG£º~TEARS~G£ºpÇÅ 1.8 Laser rifle buff faq will be back to melt all ur sorry ass the good ol chromosomes days.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3451	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:00:00 - [64] - Quote The game has changed. Snipers are situational classes, people need to understand this. If that's your primary role, well, you need a secondary. Even before 1.8, more maps has been based around installations and indoor facilities. I dual tank and all snipers do is let me know that they saw me. I either: stay out of the area with the zig zag run to cover and/or go to that sniper perch to kill em. There's been so many matches I've seen snipers sitting at one position or in one area and mercs just avoid their kill range while still maintaining the objective, rendering sniper roles useless. Just stay on those hills buddy. We'll slaughter your team while you struggle to get a headshot on one red. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1996	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:11:00 - [65] - Quote snipers are worthless human beings and should feel embarrassed for complaining about less alpha damage when they get to hide and shoot you from the safety of the redline. alpha damage has always been a broken part of dust because of the distance factor. this is why ccp continues/will continue to nerf it and to stop making bowl maps where snipers can be vag babies in the redline. Every mercs life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and died that distinguishes one from another
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5707	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:16:00 - [66] - Quote Free Beers wrote: snipers are worthless human beings and should feel embarrassed for complaining about less alpha damage when they get to hide and shoot you from the safety of the redline. alpha damage has always been a broken part of dust because of the distance factor. this is why ccp continues/will continue to nerf it and to stop making bowl maps where snipers can be vag babies in the redline. And what about the snipers outside of the redline? AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
gfssdfdaasddf Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:04:00 - [67] - Quote Free Beers wrote: snipers are worthless human beings and should feel embarrassed for complaining about less alpha damage when they get to hide and shoot you from the safety of the redline. alpha damage has always been a broken part of dust because of the distance factor. this is why ccp continues/will continue to nerf it and to stop making bowl maps where snipers can be vag babies in the redline. And... you're even more useless for being a retired, bitter "vet" who doesn't even play this game anymore.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 224	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:10:00 - [68] - Quote I've said it before and I'll say it again. You'll still be able to snipe all the medium suits easily except Caldari. That means half the dropsuits in this game will still be very vulnerable to sniper rifles. Also you'll be VERY glad there's a damage mod nerf when a Caldari Commando headshots you with a Thales. bamboo x in 1.8 (Boundless Heavy Machine Gun) you bamboo x (Ion Pistol) you bamboo x (Forge Gun) you
Tau Lai Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 11:35:00 - [69] - Quote From an objective view: Damage mod nerf: seriously, advanced 4%, prototype 5%? We run 3 proto modules and we get a 3% damage increase? someone tell me why should I do that. Besides, we are losing almost a 15% damage with this nerf. Heavy suits everywhere: yes, they are slow, but in 1.7 it takes 4-8 shots to take down a skilled heavy. Doing it in 1.8 will require 6-10, wich is ridiculous. Sniping a 1 second shield recharging heavy caldari suit will be like sniping a tank. Snipers get the caldari commando: wich is fat. Not as much as the Pacific Rim foreheaded heavy gallente suit, but very fat. Very visible.
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 197	Posted - 2014.03.16 04:33:00 - [70] - Quote Atiim wrote: Outer Raven wrote: Ya at this point I can't even keep count of how many dropships (non-assault mind you) have tried to simply crush me on high towers. Which is why in 1.8 with the new commando suits I'll create a fit with proto swarms an av grenades along with my sniper rifle when on towers. But Commandos don't have grenade slots. FK me your right ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯



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