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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1248
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Posted - 2014.03.11 14:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jake Diesel wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:has everyone forgeotten what happens when you add the highest damage output with monsterous defence?
its missing 2 things, range and speed. both of wich are easily mitigated by sitting on top of an objective or launching yourself into it with an LAV or dropship.
using these two methods you eliminate every disadvantage and eliminate every advantage other suits can get.
its classic CCP and tank514 all over again. You can't call in an LAV from anywhere. You obviously haven't used a heavy long enough to know how limited your movement speed is. You make it sound like can just use an LAV to go running around in close quarters. They're only used on open fields. And you certainly can't call them atop most buildings. The LAV is not the substitute for running around a corner chasing someone. Most medium frame users who haven't used a heavy long enough are gonna find out places they used to tread are now 10 times harder to get to. Try hopping around mountain tops in a heavy. Lol.
well for starters im a dropship pilot and i know exactly where i can and cant call in vehicles due to my days ploping railguns on top of buildings and mountains back in chrome :P
and i know exactly how to use an LAV to break a defencive blockade, i do it all the time as ive actually skilled into LAVS and use them as their own weapon quite oftin. you would be amazed where i can drive those things.
and the idea is that you dont need to run around a corner chasing someone, that is NEVER a good idea, and people trying to do that to me are the primary reason i get kills.
if you are running around corners trying to kill off a fleeing foe.... your an idiot. in pubs its high risk low reward, and in PC its suicide.
LAVs are used to get you as close to the consol as possable. meaning you dont have to do that long waddle between cover and open yourself up to return fire, you either hop out next to a red and nuke it, or you hope out in the best location for advancement that you can, avoiding all that long range fire and eliminating the weakness of taking forever to close that gap.
and to get the LAV you simply call it in while in the redline, or at an objective you already own thats not being attacked. its not meant to get you there faster then walking would. its meant to get you there without being shot at.
oh and AV does NOT have time to react to it and kill it off before you get there so dont even bother bringing that up please |
boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
333
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Posted - 2014.03.11 15:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:A hmg useless at 10m? have you been killed by one recently or are you some god among us.
usless is not the right word for it. less effective would be more consice. it really does losse effectiveness that close in. but thats the fault of the heavy using it.
my name is boba and im a hoarder. although this isnt by choice. no player market =(
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
547
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Posted - 2014.03.11 15:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Its hard to speculate what will or won't be OP in 1.8 mainly because we don't have the raw numbers to compare. Yes the HMG will be terrifying in CQC, yes heavies will have huge resistances to 'splosions and such. But Scouts get a speed buff, will speed tanking and hit n run tactics be viable again? YES. TTK goes up, speed tanking is back. Will it be balanced? TBD.
Heavies can't profile dampen, so they will be huge red chevrons. Heavies are slow, they will tend to be point defense. Catch a fatboy in the open and he's toast. Engage him in his STRENGTH (cqc) and pursue at your own risk.
Commando's will probably be the best suited to burn heavies, with assaults being better at burning/chasing scouts(or maybe easier prey for scouts to destroy ha).
I think the real question CCP needs to answer is are they balancing the game around PC play or Pubs? 90% of playerbase resides in Pubs while the 10% are active in PC...the most prominent voices tend to be PC active players.
There is no FotM in a PC match, it flat out doesn't exist. A heavy with a RR in a PC? Lulz.
Pro-fit Prophet
"Gimme yo lunch money"
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
701
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Posted - 2014.03.11 15:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jake Diesel wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:has everyone forgeotten what happens when you add the highest damage output with monsterous defence?
its missing 2 things, range and speed. both of wich are easily mitigated by sitting on top of an objective or launching yourself into it with an LAV or dropship.
using these two methods you eliminate every disadvantage and eliminate every advantage other suits can get.
its classic CCP and tank514 all over again. You can't call in an LAV from anywhere. You obviously haven't used a heavy long enough to know how limited your movement speed is. You make it sound like can just use an LAV to go running around in close quarters. They're only used on open fields. And you certainly can't call them atop most buildings. The LAV is not the substitute for running around a corner chasing someone. Most medium frame users who haven't used a heavy long enough are gonna find out places they used to tread are now 10 times harder to get to. Try hopping around mountain tops in a heavy. Lol.
Mostly all mobility restrictions can be bypasses through modules to an extend, but with the jumping thing you have a point. But this disadvantage is not really a big one.
Sure you can't run up some hills but no one said the Heavy will be excel at everything. I am pretty sure the combo highest ehp with highest dps will be OP and can't await the rage...
All other suits will have a hard time dealing with tanks and high resistance heavies. Sometimes it seems CCP simply refuses to learn from their own mistakes or they have a totally different view on their game than those who play the game regularly.
But thanks to the heavy event using a HMG is no longer a problem . |
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR
TCD ToXiCaTeD RISE of LEGION
1619
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Posted - 2014.03.11 16:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
I don't consider the HMG OP, but in my experience, it's the easiest weapon to use in this game. it requires quite literally 0 skill. just spray in someone's general direction and you get a ton of kills.
i actually heard someone say that the HMG needed a buff, and that it needed AT LEAST Assault Rifle distance. what in the actual f*ck?
Anime > EVERYTHING
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Bormir1r
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
160
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Posted - 2014.03.11 16:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
God Hates Lags wrote:So the last of these posts generated a fair amount of controversy, but the overwhelming opinion seemed to be that it wasn't the heavy suits themselves that were OP, but the fact that the HMG wasn't getting nerfed along with the rifles. I would like to present a number of arguments as to why the HMG should not have been nerfed first and foremost.
1. The HMG is supposed to dominate CQC. You'll notice that the shotguns and nova knives aren't getting nerfed either. Why is this? Because they, like the HMG, have a very specific purpose and very limited range within which the function. HMG will still struggle to kill a shotgun scout within 10 meters and if knova knifed from behind, a heavy will die with one charged hit. There are counters to the HMG, including outranging it, or getting in very close and out maneuvering it. And yet it remains incredibly effective in it's one, albeit limited role.
2. The HMG's reticle is extremely limiting. Unlike other weapons, the HMG loses a lot of effectiveness if it is used on an enemy behind partial cover, or one at a distance. For this reason the HMG is even more range limited than other weapons, with exponential fall off even within its effective range. In addition, the limiting factor of partial cover offers an easy counter. If you let a heavy apply full damage on your more nimble assault suit it's your own damn fault.
3. Previously the other rifles were much more powerful than the HMG. The pre-nerf combat rifle had a 635 DPS, making it more powerful than the HMG WITH DOUBLE IT'S EFFECTIVE RANGE. This is just bad game design. The new stats give it 540 dps, still defeating the HMG outside of 25m or with cover factored in, but the combat rifle isn't inherently better than the HMG. As for the other rifles, the scrambler rifle and rail rifles are obviously not supposed to function ideally within the HMG's optimal but both still have a reasonably high DPS. The blaster rifle obviously shouldn't have been nerfed but that is a moot point.
Overall, HMG will do exactly what it is supposed to do in 1.8 and nothing more, while the rifle changes make the rifles effective within their own optimal ranges without dominating HMG territory. There are a huge number of counters to the HMG. Moreover an HMG heavy will dominate close quarters but it's incredibly specific ideal range will prevent it from being FOTM.
You've got to be trolling right? HMGs will be mowing everybody down, and NKs rarely drop heavies in 1 charged hit, it usually takes 2 hits, one charged, the other doesn't have to be charged, so imagine 1.8, where heavies are buffed with **** loads of HP. It'll be extremely difficult to get heavies from the back, and if they catch you, you're dead. CCP needs to reduce the movement speed on them in order for there to be balance. Furthermore shotguns are still ****** up and will take even more shots to kill a heavy, about 5 or 6 when 1.8 comes out, which is absolutely ridiculous considering it should take at most 4 shots to drop a heavy to even sound reasonable. We shouldn't even forget their bonuses too (the resistances) which makes it even harder to kill them. Weren't you listening to our corp meeting yesterday, we were discussing this pretty thoroughly.
"One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
174
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Posted - 2014.03.11 17:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:I don't consider the HMG OP, but in my experience, it's the easiest weapon to use in this game. it requires quite literally 0 skill. just spray in someone's general direction and you get a ton of kills.
i actually heard someone say that the HMG needed a buff, and that it needed AT LEAST Assault Rifle distance. what in the actual f*ck?
Well, the HMG does require more situational awareness with the low range. Knowing when to charge and when to back up is also a part of the player skill set. All the HP's in the world, and a good Logibro won't save you from your bad decisions.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1251
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Posted - 2014.03.11 17:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:I don't consider the HMG OP, but in my experience, it's the easiest weapon to use in this game. it requires quite literally 0 skill. just spray in someone's general direction and you get a ton of kills.
i actually heard someone say that the HMG needed a buff, and that it needed AT LEAST Assault Rifle distance. what in the actual f*ck? Well, the HMG does require more situational awareness with the low range. Knowing when to charge and when to back up is also a part of the player skill set. All the HP's in the world, and a good Logibro won't save you from your bad decisions.
it is however ALOT more forgiving of bad desisions. |
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
267
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Posted - 2014.03.11 18:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
About the caldari heavy, it can be fluxed sometime.. but the community will find a way to forget all about the flux.. run right up to each and everyone and get killed instantly.. come crying to the forms and CCP will have no choice to nerf the living @#$@ out of it.
Just like the Forge gun use to be a heavy weapon.. I no longer consider it a heavy weapon since the community stepped in with it's BS.
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
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TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR
TCD ToXiCaTeD RISE of LEGION
1625
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Posted - 2014.03.12 15:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Denn Maell wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:I don't consider the HMG OP, but in my experience, it's the easiest weapon to use in this game. it requires quite literally 0 skill. just spray in someone's general direction and you get a ton of kills.
i actually heard someone say that the HMG needed a buff, and that it needed AT LEAST Assault Rifle distance. what in the actual f*ck? Well, the HMG does require more situational awareness with the low range. Knowing when to charge and when to back up is also a part of the player skill set. All the HP's in the world, and a good Logibro won't save you from your bad decisions. it is however ALOT more forgiving of bad desisions. exactly. that's probably why using a heavy suit is so easy to me. since I'm always a scout, which requires you to be VERY situationally aware and crafty, it's not too hard to do the same thing in a heavy suit.
I just hate playing as a heavy because it's too slow for my scout mindset, and *shudders*...it gets scanned...
Anime > EVERYTHING
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