DUST Search - Why use damage mods (even pre 1.8)

Bones McGavins wrote:

Delta 749 wrote:

Bones McGavins wrote:

Thats my bad. I think in my mind I always had 99 from back during the OP caldari logi days where they got 5% bonus per level.

So, lets say 72. Still most suits arent close to 720 hp pre extenders (or post). So the question remains.

I agree with AV, AV is the only fit I put damage mods on. I could see the same for snipers, but even then, shield would give you a better chance at surviving counter snipers than damage mods would do for killing.

Stacking armor plates gives you a better chance of surviving counter snipers actually
Hell, a basic armor plate gives more HP than a complex shield extender and if you are sniping its not like youll be running all over the place so the speed penalty doesnt matter
Then if you slap on any old rep you are suddenly damn near invulnerable to being counter sniped unless you set up out in the open since

And this is talking med suits, with a heavy suit you can just stand there and eat bullets from damn near anything but a thales and thats without using any plates or extenders

Yes but stacking plates has nothing to do with the high slots.

Given the same low configuration, you gain a better % of health for stacking shields than you do damage for stacking damage mods, unless you are a heavy.

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Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:36:00 - [1] - Quote Looking at the numbers, it makes very little sense to use damage mods. Even currently. Complex shield extenders give you 99 shield. Which means for any suit less than 990 ehp, this gives you more than 10% boost to health. For most suits this gives more like 20-30% boost. So on a ttk front, two guys exchanging damage, one with damage mods, the other with shield extenders, the extenders would win, even right now. I could see an argument made for increasing TTK to help kill before the enemy can react, but because TTK is so low, this doesnt really come into play. So tell me, other than heavies who already have 1K+ hp without shield mods, why should any other suit use damage mods (even in their current implementation).
XANDER KAG Red Star. EoN. 603	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:38:00 - [2] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Looking at the numbers, it makes very little sense to use damage mods. Even currently. Complex shield extenders give you 99 shield. Which means for any suit less than 990 ehp, this gives you more than 10% boost to health. For most suits this gives more like 20-30% boost. So on a ttk front, two guys exchanging damage, one with damage mods, the other with shield extenders, the extenders would win, even right now. I could see an argument made for increasing TTK to help kill before the enemy can react, but because TTK is so low, this doesnt really come into play. So tell me, other than heavies who already have 1K+ hp without shield mods, why should any other suit use damage mods (even in their current implementation). Where did you get 99 from? With shield extender skill: 72 With Cal Assault skill also: ~80 Who says you can't kill in style? When CCP plays Dust514
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2634	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:40:00 - [3] - Quote You ever try to snipe or run AV without a damage mod? So hell, thats two examples right there I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 735	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:40:00 - [4] - Quote AV and the complete and utter lack of highslot options for armor tankers Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Patrick57 5950	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:40:00 - [5] - Quote XANDER KAG wrote: Where did you get 99 from? With shield extender skill: 72 With Cal Assault skill also: ~80 This, I am very confused right now. :( I think I'm a forum warrior level 5 :D
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8080	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:41:00 - [6] - Quote I place no value in the weakness of Shields. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2956	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:42:00 - [7] - Quote Because one of my scram rifle charge shots will put any proto cal assault to 0 shields and half armor with my triple stacked damage mods. Selling Templar BPO's 250Mil Last of the BPO's(Click link) I feed off your tears
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1668	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:44:00 - [8] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: AV and the complete and utter lack of highslot options for armor tankers Dual tanking is a thing. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:44:00 - [9] - Quote Thats my bad. I think in my mind I always had 99 from back during the OP caldari logi days where they got 5% bonus per level. So, lets say 72. Still most suits arent close to 720 hp pre extenders (or post). So the question remains. I agree with AV, AV is the only fit I put damage mods on. I could see the same for snipers, but even then, shield would give you a better chance at surviving counter snipers than damage mods would do for killing.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 548	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:44:00 - [10] - Quote Shields are broke, dmg mods will win and do win. This is why everyone stacks dmg mods and no one stacks shield extenders. I run 2 enhanced (I think they are enhanced, maybe standard) shield extenders on my proto min assault for the simple fact 5 dmg mods is entering the realm of ridiculous. 3 is more than enough to mow people down. Id put something else in those 2 highs, but there is literally nothing else to put in a high other than a range amp mod, i think its the range amp anyway. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama

Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:46:00 - [11] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Because one of my scram rifle charge shots will put any proto cal assault to 0 shields and half armor with my triple stacked damage mods. And honestly, what does it do without those mods? 0 shields and 2/3 shield? And what would a similar shot do to you without the 250 or so buffer your sacrficng for damage, im guessing ohk?
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 155	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:48:00 - [12] - Quote alpha damage Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 548	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:49:00 - [13] - Quote Dmg mods combine with weapon prof is a pretty stout buff to dmg, in the area of 30% buff to dmg if im remembering %s right (away from system). Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2634	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:50:00 - [14] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Thats my bad. I think in my mind I always had 99 from back during the OP caldari logi days where they got 5% bonus per level. So, lets say 72. Still most suits arent close to 720 hp pre extenders (or post). So the question remains. I agree with AV, AV is the only fit I put damage mods on. I could see the same for snipers, but even then, shield would give you a better chance at surviving counter snipers than damage mods would do for killing. Stacking armor plates gives you a better chance of surviving counter snipers actually Hell, a basic armor plate gives more HP than a complex shield extender and if you are sniping its not like youll be running all over the place so the speed penalty doesnt matter Then if you slap on any old rep you are suddenly damn near invulnerable to being counter sniped unless you set up out in the open since And this is talking med suits, with a heavy suit you can just stand there and eat bullets from damn near anything but a thales and thats without using any plates or extenders I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 155	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:50:00 - [15] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Shields are broke, dmg mods will win and do win. This is why everyone stacks dmg mods and no one stacks shield extenders. I run 2 enhanced (I think they are enhanced, maybe standard) shield extenders on my proto min assault for the simple fact 5 dmg mods is entering the realm of ridiculous. 3 is more than enough to mow people down. Id put something else in those 2 highs, but there is literally nothing else to put in a high other than a range amp mod, i think its the range amp anyway. its a precision mod and they are very useful people just overlook them for damage/hp Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8081	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:51:00 - [16] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: AV and the complete and utter lack of highslot options for armor tankers Dual tanking is a thing. Its a sin. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:52:00 - [17] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Thats my bad. I think in my mind I always had 99 from back during the OP caldari logi days where they got 5% bonus per level. So, lets say 72. Still most suits arent close to 720 hp pre extenders (or post). So the question remains. I agree with AV, AV is the only fit I put damage mods on. I could see the same for snipers, but even then, shield would give you a better chance at surviving counter snipers than damage mods would do for killing. Stacking armor plates gives you a better chance of surviving counter snipers actually Hell, a basic armor plate gives more HP than a complex shield extender and if you are sniping its not like youll be running all over the place so the speed penalty doesnt matter Then if you slap on any old rep you are suddenly damn near invulnerable to being counter sniped unless you set up out in the open since And this is talking med suits, with a heavy suit you can just stand there and eat bullets from damn near anything but a thales and thats without using any plates or extenders Yes but stacking plates has nothing to do with the high slots. Given the same low configuration, you gain a better % of health for stacking shields than you do damage for stacking damage mods, unless you are a heavy.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 548	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:54:00 - [18] - Quote Ah, yes precision, thats right. Almost put one on the other week. May actually do that tonight, would be more helpful than shields. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2634	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:56:00 - [19] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Thats my bad. I think in my mind I always had 99 from back during the OP caldari logi days where they got 5% bonus per level. So, lets say 72. Still most suits arent close to 720 hp pre extenders (or post). So the question remains. I agree with AV, AV is the only fit I put damage mods on. I could see the same for snipers, but even then, shield would give you a better chance at surviving counter snipers than damage mods would do for killing. Stacking armor plates gives you a better chance of surviving counter snipers actually Hell, a basic armor plate gives more HP than a complex shield extender and if you are sniping its not like youll be running all over the place so the speed penalty doesnt matter Then if you slap on any old rep you are suddenly damn near invulnerable to being counter sniped unless you set up out in the open since And this is talking med suits, with a heavy suit you can just stand there and eat bullets from damn near anything but a thales and thats without using any plates or extenders Yes but stacking plates has nothing to do with the high slots. Given the same low configuration, you gain a better % of health for stacking shields than you do damage for stacking damage mods, unless you are a heavy. You asked why choose extenders over damage mods, I gave an answer, you said why do that when you can get more health to survive by doing this and I answered that, so we got to plates by questions you asked so dont act like it has nothing to do with this conversation Besides in the case of a sniper and AV total ehp is secondary to your damage output so there is still no reason to fit an extender if you want to do your job well which brings us back to answering your first question, why use a damage mod over an extender I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 155	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:01:00 - [20] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Ah, yes precision, thats right. Almost put one on the other week. May actually do that tonight, would be more helpful than shields. depends on what or how you play, for a scout they are amazing. if your running assault, logi or heavy heavy ive never tried with gallente assault and logi you can pair with range amps in the low to set your scan range and precision to match your weapon of choice's optimal range Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7372	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:03:00 - [21] - Quote You are assuming every time you fight someone who have full shields. CPM1 Candidacy Thread
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 548	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:05:00 - [22] - Quote Running a Min assault, may help in flanking. Definitely can't give up my 2 plates on the lows, thats the only real hp i can get on the suit. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 556	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:07:00 - [23] - Quote But how much time are you really going to cut into TTK with 10-20% more dmage. For most encounters you are talking 1, MAYBE 2 less shots? Where as with shield mods you are buying yourself like 3-5 more shots min(aside from snipers)
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 927	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:09:00 - [24] - Quote I barely use them now. Usually just an enhanced, even on my LR. So really in 1.8 there's no change for me (except the prof. damage model changes) "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 696	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:14:00 - [25] - Quote Because I find that my Rail Rifle doing 69 points of damage per shot rather than 57.75 more useful than 152 shields. Those extra HP would not help me if I got dropped on but the extra damage does help when I get the drop on someone.Plus, Damage Modifiers do not have any detriment like Shields down. That's why I use them now.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1814	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:17:00 - [26] - Quote As others have pointed out, it isn't the percentage of total hp added that you're interested in when you add hp. You're interested in the amount of damage per second that is incoming and thus how many seconds of life the module adds.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3393	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:17:00 - [27] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Looking at the numbers, it makes very little sense to use damage mods. Even currently. Complex shield extenders give you 99 shield. Which means for any suit less than 990 ehp, this gives you more than 10% boost to health. For most suits this gives more like 20-30% boost. So on a ttk front, two guys exchanging damage, one with damage mods, the other with shield extenders, the extenders would win, even right now. I could see an argument made for increasing TTK to help kill before the enemy can react, but because TTK is so low, this doesnt really come into play. So tell me, other than heavies who already have 1K+ hp without shield mods, why should any other suit use damage mods (even in their current implementation). Because I don't get into gunfights. I stand 60m to the left of a proto squad, and steadily melt them all with a single beam of holy light. No.
Taeryn Frost Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 173	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:24:00 - [28] - Quote I said this to a new player thread way back during launch, but the best defense is a good offense still holds true. It won't matter how many shields or armor you have if you don't eliminate the threat. Just ask any heavy
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 197	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:24:00 - [29] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Shields are broke, dmg mods will win and do win. This is why everyone stacks dmg mods and no one stacks shield extenders. I run 2 enhanced (I think they are enhanced, maybe standard) shield extenders on my proto min assault for the simple fact 5 dmg mods is entering the realm of ridiculous. 3 is more than enough to mow people down. Id put something else in those 2 highs, but there is literally nothing else to put in a high other than a range amp mod, i think its the range amp anyway. the highslot sensor mod is a precison enhancment. makes it easier to pick up nearby dropsuit signals. much better than scan range if you ask me.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 548	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:33:00 - [30] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: But how much time are you really going to cut into TTK with 10-20% more dmage. For most encounters you are talking 1, MAYBE 2 less shots? Where as with shield mods you are buying yourself like 3-5 more shots min(aside from snipers) I run an AR, so I can put out a ton of shots in a very small amount of time. I'm sorry but shields are completely worthless, the cardboard dropsuit i'm building to raid CCP headquarters is far more stout than shields. I will take the 2 plates in my lows over 5 extenders in my highs on my proto any day of the week, hands down, no questions asked. Post 1.8 is still an unknown but right now dmg mods far exceed shields. Unless it turns out you are running a PLC or something wacky like that, slap 2 complex dmg mods on and 1 enhanced and see for yourself why people stack damage mods. Switzerland is small and neutral. We're more like Germany. Ambitious and misunderstood. Futurama



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