Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
657
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 10:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8. Yes, my Gal logi would be gimped without the equipment bonus. There would not be enough cpu and pg for me to run a great equipment suite, excellent protection, and a strong weapon. Assuming that you want logi bros to be able to do their jobs well, we absolutely need the ability to do all of those things. If you want us to be worse at support, easier to kill, and/or unable to properly defend ourselves, then yes, take away some of our cpu and pg. You can't target slayer logis without hurting support logis. The best solution to this is to beef up the assault class in some way through better base stats, a better slot layout, or effective bonuses.
CCP could lower the CPU/PG values of logis IF they would increase the bonus to a degree similar to the scouts bonus for cloaks or make the equipment skills lower CPU and PG by at least 5%. That way equipment logis would not be gimped even if the suit looses some PG/CPU... |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2334
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 13:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8. Yes, my Gal logi would be gimped without the equipment bonus. There would not be enough cpu and pg for me to run a great equipment suite, excellent protection, and a strong weapon. Assuming that you want logi bros to be able to do their jobs well, we absolutely need the ability to do all of those things. If you want us to be worse at support, easier to kill, and/or unable to properly defend ourselves, then yes, take away some of our cpu and pg. You can't target slayer logis without hurting support logis. The best solution to this is to beef up the assault class in some way through better base stats, a better slot layout, or effective bonuses. I'm talking about the other logis, since the gal logi isn't gaining any extra CPU/PG from the skill change than what it currently has.
And it's not about slayer logis - it's about all logis. The way it's currently shaping up means that every logi will get a large chunk more CPU and PG. If we say logis are fine as they are in terms of fittings capabilities, then we're saying they don't need any extra CPU/PG and whatever extra the new bonus will give them can be removed without penalising the logi.
So, really the question is: do logis need more CPU/PG?
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Martyr Saboteur
Amarrtyrs
197
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 13:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8. Overall, for me (an Amarr Logi) with my 3 equipment slots and use of ADV/PRO equipment, I might save 30-40 CPU and 5-6 PG. Pretty much, logis are getting their complex armor reppers traded in for CPU/PG mods that are only equipped when they run good equipment. So really, if they want to make use of the extra resources, they need to fit the suit like an actual Logi anyway, hence, they aren't even slayerlogis anymore. Slayerlogis get practically nothing from this (they might get a tiny bit of resources if they run a scanner or hives) it is a nerf to them in every way. Reducing the CPU/PG of logis would just nerf equipment logis, really.
All in all, I can't see slayerlogis being a problem in 1.8 at all. If anything, I'm more worried about scouts with the huge buff they are getting.
Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.
|
Altus Nox
FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
10
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:I'm curious to know what defines a "slayerlogi" and what doesn't. Cause from what I've read, if a logi (god bless his soul) gets more than 2 kills leading up to the double digits, he is called a "slayerlogi". In which I don't understand because a medic is just as much as a mercenary next to Assault. It seems the title gets thrown around casually and the lines blur.
The armor rep really wasn't a problem. From my viewpoint, it was necessary since the logi needs to sustain life longer to help assist his team and throw himself in harms way. The armor repair function within the suit was ideal. But, the people cried foul. And they answered.
Loads of CPU/PG wasn't a problem either. It helped us logis to fulfill our roles, again.
As a Logibro, cloaking isn't my style. I know and understand that is more for the scout based roles. Plus I'm logi, sneaking isn't what I do. I run across fields filled with bullet fire with yellow markings that scream "kill this logibro here", just to rep a heavy, drop a uplink or place down some ammo.
I think its safe to say that people who uses items in a "FOTM" fashion, shouldn't be the factor in defining an entire skill class.
^This.
I hardly consider myself a slayer logi. I had a recent match where I went 21/4, top of the bored. I run a RR, the ideal weapon for a logi in a suppression role, with no damage mods. I duel tank for survivablity so I can help my team. I pick tactically advantaged locations to set my links and defend. That match it happened to be up on the rails over the objective and the reds kept grouping up in nice easy to shoot spots.
Does it still make me a "slayer logi" if more than half my points come from equipment, intel, and healing?
A logi should support first but if there is no one who needs support you damn well better expect them to lay down fire.
Edit: grammar
-Omnes una manet Nox
(The same night awaits us all)
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5397
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8. See for yourself.
lolPLC
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
|
Joey-Number1
Maniacal Miners INC No Safe Haven
62
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 14:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Just the idea of reducing PG and CPU means you really don't understand logi or how they work... |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2335
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 15:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Martyr Saboteur wrote:Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8. Overall, for me (an Amarr Logi) with my 3 equipment slots and use of ADV/PRO equipment, I might save 30-40 CPU and 5-6 PG. Pretty much, logis are getting their complex armor reppers traded in for CPU/PG mods that are only equipped when they run good equipment. So really, if they want to make use of the extra resources, they need to fit the suit like an actual Logi anyway, hence, they aren't even slayerlogis anymore. Slayerlogis get practically nothing from this (they might get a tiny bit of resources if they run a scanner or hives) it is a nerf to them in every way. Reducing the CPU/PG of logis would just nerf equipment logis, really. All in all, I can't see slayerlogis being a problem in 1.8 at all. If anything, I'm more worried about scouts with the huge buff they are getting. Thank you - I'll eat my words and amend the OP. I hadn't realised the extra fittings capability wouldn't even cover a complex armor repper, so in that case, this set up looks fine until CCP can get around to doing their pass over the med frames.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Martyr Saboteur
Amarrtyrs
199
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 19:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Martyr Saboteur wrote:Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8. Overall, for me (an Amarr Logi) with my 3 equipment slots and use of ADV/PRO equipment, I might save 30-40 CPU and 5-6 PG. Pretty much, logis are getting their complex armor reppers traded in for CPU/PG mods that are only equipped when they run good equipment. So really, if they want to make use of the extra resources, they need to fit the suit like an actual Logi anyway, hence, they aren't even slayerlogis anymore. Slayerlogis get practically nothing from this (they might get a tiny bit of resources if they run a scanner or hives) it is a nerf to them in every way. Reducing the CPU/PG of logis would just nerf equipment logis, really. All in all, I can't see slayerlogis being a problem in 1.8 at all. If anything, I'm more worried about scouts with the huge buff they are getting. Thank you - I'll eat my words and amend the OP. I hadn't realised the extra fittings capability wouldn't even cover a complex armor repper, so in that case, this set up looks fine until CCP can get around to doing their pass over the med frames.
Well, if you fit 3-4 Prototype Equipment, it would make up for it. But again, if you are fitting 3-4 Prototype Equipment, you aren't a Slayerlogi.
For Example, I use a N-11/A Flux Uplink, K-2 Hives, and a BDR Triage Tool on my regular fit. In 1.8, I would save 30.5 CPU and 6 PG on that fitting. Enough to upgrade one of my enhanced mods into a complex mod.
However, if someone used Allotek Uplinks, a Duvolle Focused Scanner, and Wiyrakomi Triage Hives, they would save 48.25 CPU and 11.75 PG, enough to get a "free" Complex Armor Repairer(45CPU/11PG), just barely.
Those are the three most fitting intensive equipment pieces on the market and using all three would add about 90K ISK to the price tag of that suit, and would use up about 50% of its fitting resources.
In short, the people that are saying that Logis need a PG/CPU reduction are... wrong.
Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.
|
Al the destroyer
NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS
75
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 19:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Let's just make the logis have a max of 200 hp , and make your weapon an armor repairer so at least they can melee with it *sarcasm *
Earth and water, you'll find plenty of both down there!
|
SteelheadPep
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
61
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 19:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Many support logis are going into other roles in 1.8, the slayers will go to the next FOTM, but you are still not happy.The few of us who are going to remain support logis will be gimped, you can relish that fact, but we will still help our team and come out on the top of the leader board with 2 kills, so try as you may we are here to stay. |
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
2240
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
I guess I got beaten to it, but yes, I will essentially be removing a PG extender (which I need to use on about 1/2 my go-to A/1 logi suits) and fitting an armor rep module instead, which costs as much if not more.
So, if you run a slayerlogi fit (a reasonable definition is a higher tier weapon than equipment) you will in fact be worse off. Personally I would have rather seen the addition of the equipment fitting bonus, an equivalent (which might be hard to get right) reduction in CPU/PG like to OP suggests, and keep the inherent rep, which is a defensive bonus.
It would have virtually the same effect but improve survivability (which maybe wont matter as much if the TTK goes up, but I'm not holding my breath). The problem is that it's more complicated than simply exchanging the bonuses, which I am 99% sure is why CCP did it this way.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Forum Warrior lv.2
Amarr victor!
|
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
843
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Zahle: Tell me - how much extra CPU and PG will your current suits now have? Would your suit be any worse off if you didn't have it?
These are serious questions - I may be complaining now but I'm open to having my mind changed if it can be clearly and factually shown to me that logis will be no better off in 1.8.
I'm at work so I can't look at the exact numbers. I can tell you that for both my logis PG is more the limiting factor than CPU. I think I have CPU left over for Gal logi, but I know I am using every last bit of PG. But here's my main proto logi fits. Please bear in mind I have light weapons to 5 and ScR optimization to level 4 which helps a bunch with squeezing the most out of my PG and CPU. I also ha ve core upgrades, electronics, and engineering all at level 5 like any logi should.
Gal logi (the best model for 1.8 logis since it already had 25% equipment fitting bonus)
High slot = 3 complex shield extenders Low slots = 1 complex armor repairer, 2 enhanced armor plates, 1 basic reactive plate, 1 basic plate Gun = Carthum AScR Grenade = M1 locus Equipment (default fit) = Allotek nanohive, Enhanced injector, BDR-8 triage rep tool, and Quamtum scanner (the advanced level one)
I think I get about 900 EHP and armor rep at 12.25 currently. Its a really solid suit that runs I think around 230K ISK and provides decent equipment and fire support
If I change my needle to proto and use Core rep tool the suit stays pretty much the same except I downgrade to the advanced ScR
Amarr logi:
High slots = 3 complex shield extenders Low slots = 1 complex armor rep, 2 enhanced armor plates, 1 enhanced PG module Guns = Carthum AScR + Proto flaylock Grenade = M1 locus Equipment = Allotek nanohive, Enhanced injector, BDR-8 triage rep tool
With the 25% bonus I may be able to drop the PG module for a basic plate or likely I'd put a reactive of some sort in its place.
So, IMO my suits are pretty much what the logi roll is supposed to be support while being able to aid in the gun game a little and survive while being that force mulitplier. My builds are scewed a litte bit more offensively with proto guns, but I do have suits where I drop the gun power for better equipment.
So if we have our CPU and PG reduced I will have to either sacrifice tank which I'm essentially already kind of losing with loss of innate armor reps or I am now only able to be advanced weapon with advanced equipment or standard level weaponry with proto equipment.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
|
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
255
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Logi's might be getting a reload increase per equipment fitted. Be aware.
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Original ROF needs to return!
|
Marc Rime
302
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 20:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Django Quik wrote: There have been 2 problems with logis up to now: 1) Innate armor reps 2) Loads of CPU and PG
I disagree, sort of. The main problem, I would say, is the fact that logis have more module slots than any other suit. The points you mention are, however, related to this since they can be said to give extra slots compared to, say, assaults (one less repper, no/fewer fitting mods required).
They should just buff the the base stats of logis so they are on par with assaults, and then remove a slot or two. Maybe that's what they meant to do but didn't have time? ;) |
Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
844
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 21:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Django Quik wrote: There have been 2 problems with logis up to now: 1) Innate armor reps 2) Loads of CPU and PG
I disagree, sort of. The main problem, I would say, is the fact that logis have more module slots than any other suit. The points you mention are, however, related to this since they can be said to give extra slots compared to, say, assaults (one less repper, no/fewer fitting mods required). They should just buff the the base stats of logis so they are on par with assaults, and then remove a slot or two. Maybe that's what they meant to do but didn't have time? ;)
While I wouldn't have a problem with your change, except for the Cal logi (which gets 2) the logi suits only get 1 more module than their corresponding assault. So I can't agree that tinkering with logi vs assault is the best use of CCP's balancing time.
On another note, sorry to all, especially the OP if I flipped out a little with my posts in this thread last night. I get defensive of the logi suit as I've used it from the first minute I got into the closed beta up to and including now and I still will at least a little in 1.8
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
|
lee corwood
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
543
|
Posted - 2014.03.07 21:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote: What is it you people want!?
So much this. Every time I read/hear a logi nerf rant I want to scream this.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |