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Atiim
5187
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
About Sentinels With Light Weapons
It's the weapon, not the suit.
Take these questions into mind for a moment.
Are Sentinels with Rail Rifles overpowered? Does wielding a Rail Rifle on a Sentinel grant an imbalanced advantage? Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Rail Rifle kills you?
Are Sentinels with Laser Rifles overpowered? Does wielding a Laser Rifle on a Sentinel give an unfair advantage? Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Laser Rifle kills you?
Now think here for a moment. Why is it that Laser Rifle wielding heavies aren't considered OP, yet Sentinels wielding Rail Rifles are? Could it be that it's because the Laser Rifle is UP, but the Rail Rifle is OP?
About Sentinels In General
Fighting Them On The Battlefield
A heavy can be tough to kill (especially in CQC), but isn't that their niche? A heavy on the battlefield is only a threat when they are being supported by a Logistics unit. Without support, the Sentinel will end up having to retreat once his/her HP runs low; leading to an easy kill simply because the Sentinel isn't fast enough to evade the area.
Sentinels In LAVs
Whenever I see a Sentinel inside an LAV, I simply throw 3 Lai Dais and watch as the Sentinel is burned alive. Wasn't this part of the reason why people started carrying AV grenades in the first place?
Seriously. I know you Master Chefs love cooking 'dem Locus Grenades, but perhaps you should exchange them for AV Grenades instead. It's always nice to try new flavors. (Unless it's the monthly flavor of course)
Hard Counters
Remote Explosives - Even a basic one will do. Sentinels move so slow, and when you compare that weakness to the throwing range of REs, trapping one almost guarantees a kill.
Shotguns - This job should be left for the big lads & gents. With Proficiency and a Damage Modifier, a Shotgun user can easily wipe a heavy without a second thought
Nova Knives - Pretty much like the shotgun, a properly speced Minmatar Scout can deal 600+ HP of damage with them. All it takes is a few swipes and the Sentinel is wiped.
Plasma Cannons- If you aren't carrying damage mods or have the Proficiency skill upgraded, you won't 1HK the Sentinel, but you will manage to leave them wiith so little HP left that a Millita Scrambler Pistol could finish them off.
-HAND
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Nocturnal Soul
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2111
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sometimes I like to slap people.....
"But we have been blessed"
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2129
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Forge Guns are darn good for it as well, the problem is the rail rifle, 3 dmg mods, plus proficiency is well over 80dmg a shot!
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Atiim
5190
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Sometimes I like to slap people..... I was forced to stop slapping people once 1.4 dropped and TTK became .2s
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Ironyimation Inception
R 0 N 1 N
119
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Unfortunately a good heavy will usually be with a good medic. A good heavy also knows what a scout will usually do flux or go around the remote explosives, and if the medic and heavy are not potatoes they will hear the very, I mean very loud sound of the explosives being thrown down.
I think we should be able to taunt in Dust, just so I can see this from the heavies and medics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j_qzQQWXos
Closed Beta Veteran
Explosives Fanatic, 5 Man Remote Explosive Kill
5 Man M8 Packed Locus Grenade Kill
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Kira Takizawa
2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance
152
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:About Sentinels With Light Weapons It's the weapon, not the suit.Take these questions into mind for a moment. Are Sentinels with Rail Rifles overpowered? Does wielding a Rail Rifle on a Sentinel grant an imbalanced advantage? Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Rail Rifle kills you? Are Sentinels with Laser Rifles overpowered? Does wielding a Laser Rifle on a Sentinel give an unfair advantage? Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Laser Rifle kills you? Now think here for a moment. Why is it that Laser Rifle wielding heavies aren't considered OP, yet Sentinels wielding Rail Rifles are? Could it be that it's because the Laser Rifle is UP, but the Rail Rifle is OP? About Sentinels In General
Fighting Them On The BattlefieldA heavy can be tough to kill (especially in CQC), but isn't that their niche? A heavy on the battlefield is only a threat when they are being supported by a Logistics unit. Without support, the Sentinel will end up having to retreat once his/her HP runs low; leading to an easy kill simply because the Sentinel isn't fast enough to evade the area. Sentinels In LAVsWhenever I see a Sentinel inside an LAV, I simply throw 3 Lai Dais and watch as the Sentinel is burned alive. Wasn't this part of the reason why people started carrying AV grenades in the first place? Seriously. I know you Master Chefs love cooking 'dem Locus Grenades, but perhaps you should exchange them for AV Grenades instead. It's always nice to try new flavors. (Unless it's the monthly flavor of course) Hard CountersRemote Explosives - Even a basic one will do. Sentinels move so slow, and when you compare that weakness to the throwing range of REs, trapping one almost guarantees a kill. Shotguns - This job should be left for the big lads & gents. With Proficiency and a Damage Modifier, a Shotgun user can easily wipe a heavy without a second thought Nova Knives - Pretty much like the shotgun, a properly speced Minmatar Scout can deal 600+ HP of damage with them. All it takes is a few swipes and the Sentinel is wiped. Plasma Cannons- If you aren't carrying damage mods or have the Proficiency skill upgraded, you won't 1HK the Sentinel, but you will manage to leave them wiith so little HP left that a Millita Scrambler Pistol could finish them off. -HAND
Are Sentinels with Rail Rifles overpowered? The "tactic" is Does wielding a Rail Rifle on a Sentinel grant an imbalanced advantage? Yes Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Rail Rifle kills you? Yes
Are Sentinels with Laser Rifles overpowered? No Does wielding a Laser Rifle on a Sentinel give an unfair advantage? Yes/No Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Laser Rifle kills you? No The Laser Rifle isn't UP it's fine if you know how to use it. Everything seem to be right. :D
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SILVERBACK 02
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
467
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Forge Guns are darn good for it as well, the problem is the rail rifle, 3 dmg mods, plus proficiency is well over 80dmg a shot!
its like a long range automatic scrambler pistol lol!
level 0 forum warrior
weapon of choice:
MARK V PYTHON.
-STB sky marshall
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
872
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lasers aren't UP......... People need to wake up and realise its crap CQC Inside the range it should be operating, it's a beast
A good laser will knock the shields off any suit, and cut into the armour It does exactly what it should, pins guys back at range.....
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail
Plasma Cannon performs its suppresion/area denial role perfectly
Pity dust players only perform one role - slaying
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Atiim
5191
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Posted - 2014.03.02 23:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kira Takizawa wrote: Are Sentinels with Rail Rifles overpowered? The "tactic" is Does wielding a Rail Rifle on a Sentinel grant an imbalanced advantage? Yes Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Rail Rifle kills you? Yes
Are Sentinels with Laser Rifles overpowered? No Does wielding a Laser Rifle on a Sentinel give an unfair advantage? Yes/No Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Laser Rifle kills you? No The Laser Rifle isn't UP it's fine if you know how to use it. Everything seem to be right. :D
Meh. I just pulled an underused weapon from the back of my head.
I was originally going to say Plasma Cannons or Shotguns, but I didn't want it to seem to over-exaggerated or desperate lol
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Kira Takizawa
2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance
155
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Because they come from Battlefield and CoD... |
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7045
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Kira Takizawa
2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance
155
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Kira Takizawa wrote: Are Sentinels with Rail Rifles overpowered? The "tactic" is Does wielding a Rail Rifle on a Sentinel grant an imbalanced advantage? Yes Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Rail Rifle kills you? Yes
Are Sentinels with Laser Rifles overpowered? No Does wielding a Laser Rifle on a Sentinel give an unfair advantage? Yes/No Do you become frustrated when a Sentinel with a Laser Rifle kills you? No The Laser Rifle isn't UP it's fine if you know how to use it. Everything seem to be right. :D
Meh. I just pulled an underused weapon from the back of my head. I was originally going to say Plasma Cannons or Shotguns, but I didn't want it to seem to over-exaggerated or desperate lol
xD It's fine I understand where you are coming from :) |
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
876
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kira Takizawa wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Lasers aren't UP.........
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail Because they come from Battlefield and CoD...
Hey! don't criticise FPS gamers for playing an FPS Maybe a lot of em do jump into the slayer role but thats FPS
I myself played Battlefield, but you need to adapt to dust.... Slaying is only viable when the other team can't put up a fight Because in even games 20/0 crap doesn't happen (Unless you snipe/HAV)
Plasma Cannon performs its suppresion/area denial role perfectly
Pity dust players only perform one role - slaying
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Atiim
5191
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so.
However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel.
Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field.
The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
1867
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so. However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel. Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field. The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely. Or we just start seeing a lot of scouts with HMG sized holes.
Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2130
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
SILVERBACK 02 wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Forge Guns are darn good for it as well, the problem is the rail rifle, 3 dmg mods, plus proficiency is well over 80dmg a shot! its like a long range automatic scrambler pistol lol!
Pretty much, and has a scope! Also, I saw you trying to kill me last week nice job!
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance
335
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Lasers aren't UP......... People need to wake up and realise its crap CQC Inside the range it should be operating, it's a beast
A good laser will knock the shields off any suit, and cut into the armour It does exactly what it should, pins guys back at range.....
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail
Rail rifles beat lasers in their own range and can still fight in CQC |
Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1198
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so. However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel. Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field. The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely.
nope, a scouts main meal will be the logis supporting the heavys not the heavys themselves.
without support heavys can be chipped away at and eventually rushed.
witht he resistance bonuses even a shotgun/NK cant do enough damage in time to nuke a heavy, were talking like 5+ shotgun rounds, and 2 charged swipes.
heavys eat everythign with logi support
scouts eat logis so that your teams logis and assaults can wipe up the unsupported heavys, this is how the meta is going to be.
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Second Cerberus
Tested In Production
86
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Lasers aren't UP......... People need to wake up and realise its crap CQC Inside the range it should be operating, it's a beast
A good laser will knock the shields off any suit, and cut into the armour It does exactly what it should, pins guys back at range.....
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail
If you engage an enemy within your optimal you should have an inherent advantage. The LR can wreck shields at range but in my experience I usually have enough time to evade before my armor is gone. I rarely die to the LR even at optimal, and your comment about "cutting into armor" and "pinning guys back" suggests you know it actually does a pretty poor job at putting players down. With the ridiculously low TTK in this game the fact that the LR wounds more often that not is a big indicator it's not where it should be in terms or relative balance.
Also, all weapons are for slaying. The LR should kill as effectively as any other weapon in its class at optimal. If you want to say a logi suit role is support, or a scout is for infiltration that's logical, but every weapon is intended for slaying.
TL:DR the LR is not an effective weapon even in its optimal
"I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production." - CCP
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
7048
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Posted - 2014.03.03 00:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so. However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel. Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field. The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely. We'll see.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1199
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Posted - 2014.03.03 01:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Atiim wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so. However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel. Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field. The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely. We'll see.
lol at their being less support logis just as the game changes to make them more important. |
Tectonic Fusion
1165
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Posted - 2014.03.03 02:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. How so? Oh or are you implying people like me (or us) are just really good...
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Atiim
5203
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Posted - 2014.03.03 03:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote: lol at their being less support logis just as the game changes to make them more important.
Need/Demand usually doesn't mean an increase in Supply/Quantity when it comes to DUST 514.
With the fact that both Slayer and Support logistics users are being nerfed, coupled by the fact that literally every other role/class in the entire game is being buffed is a pretty obvious indicator that we will see far less logis on the battlefield.
Want an example?
With all of the vehicles on the field, you would think there would be more AV on the field correct?
And with the fact that they can wield both AV and AI weaponry at the same time, you'd also think that there would be more Commando users on the field... right?
If it's not fun or overpowered, very few people (if any) are going to use it.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1388
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Posted - 2014.03.03 04:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kira Takizawa wrote:TheD1CK wrote:
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Because they come from Battlefield and CoD... Resistance series.
Also, from Killzone 3 a bit. Operations game mode was flipping awesome! |
Atiim
5206
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bump
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1801
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Lasers aren't UP......... People need to wake up and realise its crap CQC Inside the range it should be operating, it's a beast
A good laser will knock the shields off any suit, and cut into the armour It does exactly what it should, pins guys back at range.....
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail
Pretty much
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
880
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Lasers aren't UP......... People need to wake up and realise its crap CQC Inside the range it should be operating, it's a beast
A good laser will knock the shields off any suit, and cut into the armour It does exactly what it should, pins guys back at range.....
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail Rail rifles beat lasers in their own range and can still fight in CQC
And Rails are top of the 'nerf' list
Plasma Cannon performs its suppresion/area denial role perfectly
Pity dust players only perform one role - slaying
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Toby Flenderson
research lab
319
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Second Cerberus wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Lasers aren't UP......... People need to wake up and realise its crap CQC Inside the range it should be operating, it's a beast
A good laser will knock the shields off any suit, and cut into the armour It does exactly what it should, pins guys back at range.....
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Edit: Sorry for derail If you engage an enemy within your optimal you should have an inherent advantage. The LR can wreck shields at range but in my experience I usually have enough time to evade before my armor is gone. I rarely die to the LR even at optimal, and your comment about "cutting into armor" and "pinning guys back" suggests you know it actually does a pretty poor job at putting players down. With the ridiculously low TTK in this game the fact that the LR wounds more often that not is a big indicator it's not where it should be in terms or relative balance. Also, all weapons are for slaying. The LR should kill as effectively as any other weapon in its class at optimal. If you want to say a logi suit role is support, or a scout is for infiltration that's logical, but every weapon is intended for slaying. TL:DR the LR is not an effective weapon even in its optimal
I think my biggest problem with the LR is that it used to have a role as the "long distance" weapon and that was literally all that it could do. This was fine until they released other longer ranged weapons, one of which out-performs the laser rifle in the one instance it was supposed to be good. I've used the laser rifle enough to know when it's effective and when I'm just giving away my position but it's just not as good as a RR at those distances.
I'm not sure what to think about the buffs that are coming for the laser rifle but I hope, now that it's role is shared by a superior weapon, it will at least bring it up to a point where it competes with the rail rifle in the optimal range. |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1801
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't have a problem with any weapon on any suit. The OPness comes from the weapon not the commando suit becase the suit has enough drawbacks that make it about right.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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Hecarim Van Hohen
ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION
506
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kira Takizawa wrote:TheD1CK wrote:
God dammit when will dust players learn to perform a role other than slaying????
Because they come from Battlefield and CoD...
Does it really matter where they come from? I always thought it's more about the individuals mindset and not the games he likes.
BANGO SKANK WAS HERE
1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
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Second Cerberus
Tested In Production
88
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
Toby Flenderson wrote:Second Cerberus wrote:
TL:DR the LR is not an effective weapon even in its optimal
I think my biggest problem with the LR is that it used to have a role as the "long distance" weapon and that was literally all that it could do. This was fine until they released other longer ranged weapons, one of which out-performs the laser rifle in the one instance it was supposed to be good. I've used the laser rifle enough to know when it's effective and when I'm just giving away my position but it's just not as good as a RR at those distances. I'm not sure what to think about the buffs that are coming for the laser rifle but I hope, now that it's role is shared by a superior weapon, it will at least bring it up to a point where it competes with the rail rifle in the optimal range.
My thoughts exactly. The RR has parity or is even superior in the LR's optimal and is better at any shorter range. We'll have to see how the RR balancing pass affects it's overall utility at all ranges and how the LR buff affects it stopping power at optimal.
"I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production." - CCP
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
632
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Posted - 2014.03.03 12:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
In general I agree the suit is not op (well at least now) we will have to see how this plays out once 1.8 hits the ground.
But some of your conclusions are a bit out of balance
The LAV thing: you need a Proto AV nade to kill a std LAV not balanced (especially since there is a BPO that requires 0SP)
The SG: Needing prof 5 + damage mods to safely kill std suits in a reasonable time is NOT balanced but this is a problem of the SG not the Heavy frame.
The same is true for NK's requiring a certain suit of a certain faction to be able to fight heavy suits in halfway reasonable way says a lot about how underperforming NK's are. NK's are fun and a trolling weapon nothing more you can get the kill faster with nearly every other sidearm with less risk.
I don't even start on the PLC...its not worth to mention as a weapon at all... |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback
1943
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Posted - 2014.03.03 13:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
I don't have any beef With the suit or indeed the ones using RRs on it, which here are a lot. It might be te ultimate EZ-mode/crutch atm besides tanks but so what? I don't see them having any sort of unfair advantage.
My beef is With the HMG.
- I don't mind the damage, range or rate of fire.
- But I do mind the impact push back effect of the weapon. Simply put: When somebody hits me With a HMG its an almost guaranteed kill for the fatty. When hit by a HMG the game stops working for me. I can hardly move at all. My dudette slows Down to a Virtual stop, making the rest of the fire hit and then I'm dead.
It negates all sort of speed advantage my suit has over the fatty, well at least from that point on. Every weapon not counting the OHKs give me a chance to survive after the initial hit, if I can doddge and get to cover in a timely and swaggalisious manner. With the HMG its: "Get hit by one bullet and you can't possibly Dodge the next 200 cause you simply can't move due to being hit....".
Its an unfair advantage IMO. If I actually could move while being hit I'd stand a chance to let superior movement, skill and gungame win the day. These days I have to pick my fights vs the HMG fattys With care, and I suppose thats the point. And I do understand a certain pushback/movement stopping effect when you're hit by such an awesome weapon, I simply mean that the effect is too strong atm, giving anyone caught in that Death ray little to no chance of escaping.
FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1409
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Posted - 2014.03.03 13:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
And tanks are not OP either. That is why everyone and their mother is spamming them. It's all fine. Nothing stops ppl from using the heavy suit rather than another suit. That's the problem. If it isn't any better then ehy is it the goto suit for most anything where you don't want to get killed easily?
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
17
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Posted - 2014.03.03 13:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Where the sentinel with a rail rifle is OP, is at long range, because, before you can reach him, you are already dead, and their great amont of HP prevent them to be killed except if someone can flank them. On close quarter however, as tough as they are, they don't stand a chance against a standard heavy (sentinel or basic) with a HMG, or a scout straffing around with a shotgun.
Gallente logistic dropsuit / Dropship pilot
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
2018
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Posted - 2014.03.03 13:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
light weapons seem fine on these guys.
these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. |
Atiim
5210
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Posted - 2014.03.03 14:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:And tanks are not OP either. That is why everyone and their mother is spamming them. It's all fine. Nothing stops ppl from using the heavy suit rather than another suit. That's the problem. If it isn't any better then ehy is it the goto suit for most anything where you don't want to get killed easily? Nice try.
The fact that HAVs hard counter (AV) isn't effective on said vehicles makes the OP.
Please, try to disprove the many Threads & Videos explaining why HAVs are OP with something that's not anecdotal. Whe you manage to do so, then you'll actually have an argument.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Atiim
5220
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Posted - 2014.03.03 16:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:light weapons seem fine on these guys.
these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. I doubt CCP will release long-range heavy weapons simply because Sentinels are designed for CQC combat
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Galthur
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
397
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Posted - 2014.03.03 16:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
The Plasma Cannon with damage mods and proficiency up won't insta-kill sentinels next build...
What do you post in the war room when CCP is gone and PC is locked? 14:44 [CCP]Logibro: Not Anime.
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
1426
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Posted - 2014.03.03 17:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Sometimes I like to slap people.....
I like to slap the governer
Who wants some?
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Smooth Assassin
Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME
958
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Posted - 2014.03.03 18:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
In case anyone didn't know, shotgun proficiency only increases the ROF (Rate of Fire) and not damage.
Assassination is my thing.
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
1882
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Posted - 2014.03.04 00:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Atiim wrote:calisk galern wrote:light weapons seem fine on these guys.
these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. I doubt CCP will release long-range heavy weapons simply because Sentinels are designed for CQC combat Forge Gun?
Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance
290
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Posted - 2014.03.04 01:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
My main issue comes from people using things like brick tanked sentinel suits with RR. Normally I like to use an ACR and I do pretty well with it in CQC and medium ranges. Other heavies with even other light guns I can take out without too much trouble in CQC.
However, these people using sentinel suits with well over 1000 armor and RR, it is almost impossible to kill them while being in a medium suit no matter what advantages you start with. I cannot take them out in CQC with an ACR/SMG combo unless I get an extreme flank advantage. So I tried my RR at extreme ranges. Still impossible as once they figure out they're getting hit from a flank, they immediately turn around and still kill me because I only managed to cut through their shields and a small chunk of their armor. So even though I still managed to get the flank advantage and what is supposed to be the "range" advantage, I still get killed.
Then like as we saw with this recent event, you get several of these, all camping an objective, it is almost impossible to get in there. RR we can say is OP at the moment, but once other weapons would get buffed, this issue still is not going to change. If AR gets fixed, or LR gets fixed, they'll just start using these weapons as well. I can see it already, getting killed by a fatsuit brick tank sentinel using a LR, so I fire back with my own LR and still get killed because I can't cut through his HP fast enough.
It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
2448
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Posted - 2014.03.04 01:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
A heavy with a light weapons has to rely on someone else for ammo.
Just another thought...
Links:
List of Most Important Threads
I make logistics videos!
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Atiim
5232
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Posted - 2014.03.04 01:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Atiim wrote:calisk galern wrote:light weapons seem fine on these guys.
these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. I doubt CCP will release long-range heavy weapons simply because Sentinels are designed for CQC combat Forge Gun? The Forge Gun however, is an AV weapon.
I doubt CCP could implement a CQC AV weapon that isn't underpowered.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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castba
Penguin's March
328
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Posted - 2014.03.04 03:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
LEHON Xeon wrote:My main issue comes from people using things like brick tanked sentinel suits with RR. Normally I like to use an ACR and I do pretty well with it in CQC and medium ranges. Other heavies with even other light guns I can take out without too much trouble in CQC.
However, these people using sentinel suits with well over 1000 armor and RR, it is almost impossible to kill them while being in a medium suit no matter what advantages you start with. I cannot take them out in CQC with an ACR/SMG combo unless I get an extreme flank advantage. So I tried my RR at extreme ranges. Still impossible as once they figure out they're getting hit from a flank, they immediately turn around and still kill me because I only managed to cut through their shields and a small chunk of their armor. So even though I still managed to get the flank advantage and what is supposed to be the "range" advantage, I still get killed.
Then like as we saw with this recent event, you get several of these, all camping an objective, it is almost impossible to get in there. RR we can say is OP at the moment, but once other weapons would get buffed, this issue still is not going to change. If AR gets fixed, or LR gets fixed, they'll just start using these weapons as well. I can see it already, getting killed by a fatsuit brick tank sentinel using a LR, so I fire back with my own LR and still get killed because I can't cut through his HP fast enough. Hang on, you have trouble with tanked heavies whilst using the ridiculous ACR, without flanking and think that there is something wrong with the AR thus needing to fixed? You must be trolling... |
Atiim
5250
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Posted - 2014.03.04 18:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hopefully Vegetation Monster reads this :)
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2719
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Atiim wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so. However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel. Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field. The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely. nope, a scouts main meal will be the logis supporting the heavys not the heavys themselves. without support heavys can be chipped away at and eventually rushed. witht he resistance bonuses even a shotgun/NK cant do enough damage in time to nuke a heavy, were talking like 5+ shotgun rounds, and 2 charged swipes. heavys eat everythign with logi support scouts eat logis so that your teams logis and assaults can wipe up the unsupported heavys, this is how the meta is going to be. 1) I did not think any Heavies had resistance to Nova Knives.
2) Only Caldari and Minmitar Heavies have resistance to Shotguns.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Atiim
5254
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote: 1) I did not think any Heavies had resistance to Nova Knives.
2) Only Caldari and Minmatar Heavies have resistance to Shotguns.
Which also means fluxing them before blasting them with the NK or SG grants an easy kill.
Even a 1s delay isn't fast enough to stop a scout in action.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
[s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2719
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
KingBabar wrote: - But I do mind the impact push back effect of the weapon. Simply put: When somebody hits me With a HMG its an almost guaranteed kill for the fatty. When hit by a HMG the game stops working for me. I can hardly move at all. My dudette slows Down to a Virtual stop, making the rest of the fire hit and then I'm dead.
It negates all sort of speed advantage my suit has over the fatty, well at least from that point on. Every weapon not counting the OHKs give me a chance to survive after the initial hit, if I can doddge and get to cover in a timely and swaggalisious manner. With the HMG its: "Get hit by one bullet and you can't possibly Dodge the next 200 cause you simply can't move due to being hit....".
Its an unfair advantage IMO. If I actually could move while being hit I'd stand a chance to let superior movement, skill and gungame win the day. These days I have to pick my fights vs the HMG fattys With care, and I suppose thats the point. And I do understand a certain pushback/movement stopping effect when you're hit by such an awesome weapon, I simply mean that the effect is too strong atm, giving anyone caught in that Death ray little to no chance of escaping.
This effect needs to be taken out of the game! It can also be caused by the Combat Rifle, and Rail Riffle to a degree. Any high rate of fire weapon. Every bullet that hits you slows you down more. It also prevents you from sprinting.
It was added to the game a long time ago. Before hit detection was fixed you never got hit by enough bullets to notice. After hit detection was fixed I started noticing it. When the Combat Rifle, and Rail Rifle were added, and the HMG was fixed, it became a lot more noticeable.
I have been referring to it as the Sloth effect. It is the one aspect of this game which makes me want to throw my controller through the TV screen.
I donGÇÖt think it is needed now that hit detection works better.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2719
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:And tanks are not OP either. That is why everyone and their mother is spamming them. It's all fine. Nothing stops ppl from using the heavy suit rather than another suit. That's the problem. If it isn't any better then ehy is it the goto suit for most anything where you don't want to get killed easily? Actually, with the exception of perma rep tanks, they are not OP. They only appear to be OP because Swarm Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and AV grenades are UP.
Edit: So hopefully Shotguns and Nova Knives will be properly balanced. I donGÇÖt think any Heavy has a resistance to Nova Knives, and only Caldari/Minmitar Sentinels have resistance to Shotguns. Caldari/Minmitar Sentinels will not have as much health as the other two Sentinels.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1862
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Actually, with the exception of perma rep tanks, they are not OP. They only appear to be OP because Swarm Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and AV grenades are UP.
I totally agree with this. If CCP had buffed vehicles but left AV alone, the game would be very close to balanced between infantry and vehicles. (Dropships would be a bit too vulnerable still, but that could be figured out.)
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2722
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Posted - 2014.03.04 19:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Actually, with the exception of perma rep tanks, they are not OP. They only appear to be OP because Swarm Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and AV grenades are UP. I totally agree with this. If CCP had buffed vehicles but left AV alone, the game would be very close to balanced between infantry and vehicles. (Dropships would be a bit too vulnerable still, but that could be figured out.) Actually the Swarm Launcher did need a nerf. It just did not need a 33% damage nerf on top of a 43% range nerf.
However our best chance at balance now is to give small buffs to the underpowered AV weapons, and then reassess the situation after a few weeks when the game has had time to find its new balance. Then we will have a better idea of how close we are to V/AV balance and calculate another small AV buff to get us the rest of the way there.
When CCP tries to get to balance in one big step, they usually overstep the mark as they did with the 1.7 AV nerf.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
454
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Forge Guns are darn good for it as well, the problem is the rail rifle, 3 dmg mods, plus proficiency is well over 80dmg a shot!
The sentinel only has one high slot. How can it put three damage mods on?
I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.
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Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
561
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
The issue with sentinels using light weapons comes down to this: Assuming that you are within the HMGs optimum range, no rifle (assault/combat/rail/scrambler) should be more effective to use than the HMG. If it turns out that any of those rifles (particularly when combined with damage mods) can outperform the HMG, it seriously mitigates the purpose of 50% of a heavy's "true" weaponry.
Life is killing me.
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
321
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Posted - 2014.03.04 20:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
No I'm not mad when I die from a heavy with a light weapon. Do I say "wow what a coward"? sure do because it's true.
it's a rarity and they aren't that effective. No rr is not op. |
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