DUST Search - Some Notes About The Big Bad Sentinels

LEHON Xeon wrote:

My main issue comes from people using things like brick tanked sentinel suits with RR. Normally I like to use an ACR and I do pretty well with it in CQC and medium ranges. Other heavies with even other light guns I can take out without too much trouble in CQC.

However, these people using sentinel suits with well over 1000 armor and RR, it is almost impossible to kill them while being in a medium suit no matter what advantages you start with. I cannot take them out in CQC with an ACR/SMG combo unless I get an extreme flank advantage. So I tried my RR at extreme ranges. Still impossible as once they figure out they're getting hit from a flank, they immediately turn around and still kill me because I only managed to cut through their shields and a small chunk of their armor. So even though I still managed to get the flank advantage and what is supposed to be the "range" advantage, I still get killed.

Then like as we saw with this recent event, you get several of these, all camping an objective, it is almost impossible to get in there. RR we can say is OP at the moment, but once other weapons would get buffed, this issue still is not going to change. If AR gets fixed, or LR gets fixed, they'll just start using these weapons as well. I can see it already, getting killed by a fatsuit brick tank sentinel using a LR, so I fire back with my own LR and still get killed because I can't cut through his HP fast enough.

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Second Cerberus Tested In Production 88	Posted - 2014.03.03 12:39:00 - [31] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: Second Cerberus wrote: TL:DR the LR is not an effective weapon even in its optimal I think my biggest problem with the LR is that it used to have a role as the "long distance" weapon and that was literally all that it could do. This was fine until they released other longer ranged weapons, one of which out-performs the laser rifle in the one instance it was supposed to be good. I've used the laser rifle enough to know when it's effective and when I'm just giving away my position but it's just not as good as a RR at those distances. I'm not sure what to think about the buffs that are coming for the laser rifle but I hope, now that it's role is shared by a superior weapon, it will at least bring it up to a point where it competes with the rail rifle in the optimal range. My thoughts exactly. The RR has parity or is even superior in the LR's optimal and is better at any shorter range. We'll have to see how the RR balancing pass affects it's overall utility at all ranges and how the LR buff affects it stopping power at optimal. "I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production." - *CCP*
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 632	Posted - 2014.03.03 12:47:00 - [32] - Quote In general I agree the suit is not op (well at least now) we will have to see how this plays out once 1.8 hits the ground. But some of your conclusions are a bit out of balance The LAV thing: you need a Proto AV nade to kill a std LAV not balanced (especially since there is a BPO that requires 0SP) The SG: Needing prof 5 + damage mods to safely kill std suits in a reasonable time is NOT balanced but this is a problem of the SG not the Heavy frame. The same is true for NK's requiring a certain suit of a certain faction to be able to fight heavy suits in halfway reasonable way says a lot about how underperforming NK's are. NK's are fun and a trolling weapon nothing more you can get the kill faster with nearly every other sidearm with less risk. I don't even start on the PLC...its not worth to mention as a weapon at all...
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 1943	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:13:00 - [33] - Quote I don't have any beef With the suit or indeed the ones using RRs on it, which here are a lot. It might be te ultimate EZ-mode/crutch atm besides tanks but so what? I don't see them having any sort of unfair advantage. My beef is With the HMG. - I don't mind the damage, range or rate of fire. - But I do mind the impact push back effect of the weapon. Simply put: When somebody hits me With a HMG its an almost guaranteed kill for the fatty. When hit by a HMG the game stops working for me. I can hardly move at all. My dudette slows Down to a Virtual stop, making the rest of the fire hit and then I'm dead. It negates all sort of speed advantage my suit has over the fatty, well at least from that point on. Every weapon not counting the OHKs give me a chance to survive after the initial hit, if I can doddge and get to cover in a timely and swaggalisious manner. With the HMG its: "Get hit by one bullet and you can't possibly Dodge the next 200 cause you simply can't move due to being hit....". Its an unfair advantage IMO. If I actually could move while being hit I'd stand a chance to let superior movement, skill and gungame win the day. These days I have to pick my fights vs the HMG fattys With care, and I suppose thats the point. And I do understand a certain pushback/movement stopping effect when you're hit by such an awesome weapon, I simply mean that the effect is too strong atm, giving anyone caught in that Death ray little to no chance of escaping. FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1409	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:39:00 - [34] - Quote And tanks are not OP either. That is why everyone and their mother is spamming them. It's all fine. Nothing stops ppl from using the heavy suit rather than another suit. That's the problem. If it isn't any better then ehy is it the goto suit for most anything where you don't want to get killed easily? Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 17	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:40:00 - [35] - Quote Where the sentinel with a rail rifle is OP, is at long range, because, before you can reach him, you are already dead, and their great amont of HP prevent them to be killed except if someone can flank them. On close quarter however, as tough as they are, they don't stand a chance against a standard heavy (sentinel or basic) with a HMG, or a scout straffing around with a shotgun. Gallente logistic dropsuit / Dropship pilot
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2018	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:44:00 - [36] - Quote light weapons seem fine on these guys. these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own.
Atiim 5210	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:02:00 - [37] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: And tanks are not OP either. That is why everyone and their mother is spamming them. It's all fine. Nothing stops ppl from using the heavy suit rather than another suit. That's the problem. If it isn't any better then ehy is it the goto suit for most anything where you don't want to get killed easily? Nice try. The fact that HAVs hard counter (AV) isn't effective on said vehicles makes the OP. Please, try to disprove the many Threads & Videos explaining why HAVs are OP with something that's not anecdotal. Whe you manage to do so, then you'll actually have an argument. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim 5220	Posted - 2014.03.03 16:39:00 - [38] - Quote calisk galern wrote: light weapons seem fine on these guys. these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. I doubt CCP will release long-range heavy weapons simply because Sentinels are designed for CQC combat Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Galthur Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.03.03 16:52:00 - [39] - Quote The Plasma Cannon with damage mods and proficiency up won't insta-kill sentinels next build... What do you post in the war room when CCP is gone and PC is locked? 14:44 [CCP]Logibro: Not Anime.
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 1426	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:31:00 - [40] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sometimes I like to slap people..... I like to slap the governer Who wants some?

Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 958	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:06:00 - [41] - Quote In case anyone didn't know, shotgun proficiency only increases the ROF (Rate of Fire) and not damage. *Assassination is my thing.*
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1882	Posted - 2014.03.04 00:43:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: calisk galern wrote: light weapons seem fine on these guys. these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. I doubt CCP will release long-range heavy weapons simply because Sentinels are designed for CQC combat Forge Gun? Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 290	Posted - 2014.03.04 01:23:00 - [43] - Quote My main issue comes from people using things like brick tanked sentinel suits with RR. Normally I like to use an ACR and I do pretty well with it in CQC and medium ranges. Other heavies with even other light guns I can take out without too much trouble in CQC. However, these people using sentinel suits with well over 1000 armor and RR, it is almost impossible to kill them while being in a medium suit no matter what advantages you start with. I cannot take them out in CQC with an ACR/SMG combo unless I get an extreme flank advantage. So I tried my RR at extreme ranges. Still impossible as once they figure out they're getting hit from a flank, they immediately turn around and still kill me because I only managed to cut through their shields and a small chunk of their armor. So even though I still managed to get the flank advantage and what is supposed to be the "range" advantage, I still get killed. Then like as we saw with this recent event, you get several of these, all camping an objective, it is almost impossible to get in there. RR we can say is OP at the moment, but once other weapons would get buffed, this issue still is not going to change. If AR gets fixed, or LR gets fixed, they'll just start using these weapons as well. I can see it already, getting killed by a fatsuit brick tank sentinel using a LR, so I fire back with my own LR and still get killed because I can't cut through his HP fast enough. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2448	Posted - 2014.03.04 01:27:00 - [44] - Quote A heavy with a light weapons has to rely on someone else for ammo. Just another thought... Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Atiim 5232	Posted - 2014.03.04 01:28:00 - [45] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Atiim wrote: calisk galern wrote: light weapons seem fine on these guys. these maps are very large and open, and the hmg cannot compete at range, so the heavies need to adapt and use the longer range weapons until ccp gives heavies a longer range weapon of their own. I doubt CCP will release long-range heavy weapons simply because Sentinels are designed for CQC combat Forge Gun? The Forge Gun however, is an AV weapon. I doubt CCP could implement a CQC AV weapon that isn't underpowered. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
castba Penguin's March 328	Posted - 2014.03.04 03:57:00 - [46] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: My main issue comes from people using things like brick tanked sentinel suits with RR. Normally I like to use an ACR and I do pretty well with it in CQC and medium ranges. Other heavies with even other light guns I can take out without too much trouble in CQC. However, these people using sentinel suits with well over 1000 armor and RR, it is almost impossible to kill them while being in a medium suit no matter what advantages you start with. I cannot take them out in CQC with an ACR/SMG combo unless I get an extreme flank advantage. So I tried my RR at extreme ranges. Still impossible as once they figure out they're getting hit from a flank, they immediately turn around and still kill me because I only managed to cut through their shields and a small chunk of their armor. So even though I still managed to get the flank advantage and what is supposed to be the "range" advantage, I still get killed. Then like as we saw with this recent event, you get several of these, all camping an objective, it is almost impossible to get in there. RR we can say is OP at the moment, but once other weapons would get buffed, this issue still is not going to change. If AR gets fixed, or LR gets fixed, they'll just start using these weapons as well. I can see it already, getting killed by a fatsuit brick tank sentinel using a LR, so I fire back with my own LR and still get killed because I can't cut through his HP fast enough. Hang on, you have trouble with tanked heavies whilst using the ridiculous ACR, without flanking and think that there is something wrong with the AR thus needing to fixed? You must be trolling...
Atiim 5250	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:38:00 - [47] - Quote Hopefully Vegetation Monster reads this :) Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2719	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:14:00 - [48] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Atiim wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Too bad half of these tactics get invalidated come 1.8. Arguably so. However, with 1.8 changes you can expect to see many more Scouts on the field, meaning more people with Shotguns & Nova Knives to counter the Sentinel. Couple that with the fact that 1.8 changes will also mean much fewer support logis on the field. The Scout spam should balance out the Sentinel spam quite nicely. nope, a scouts main meal will be the logis supporting the heavys not the heavys themselves. without support heavys can be chipped away at and eventually rushed. witht he resistance bonuses even a shotgun/NK cant do enough damage in time to nuke a heavy, were talking like 5+ shotgun rounds, and 2 charged swipes. heavys eat everythign with logi support scouts eat logis so that your teams logis and assaults can wipe up the unsupported heavys, this is how the meta is going to be. 1) I did not think any Heavies had resistance to Nova Knives. 2) Only Caldari and Minmitar Heavies have resistance to Shotguns. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Atiim 5254	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:17:00 - [49] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: 1) I did not think any Heavies had resistance to Nova Knives. 2) Only Caldari and Minmatar Heavies have resistance to Shotguns. Which also means fluxing them before blasting them with the NK or SG grants an easy kill. Even a 1s delay isn't fast enough to stop a scout in action. Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub [s]Text[/s] <---------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2719	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:28:00 - [50] - Quote KingBabar wrote: - But I do mind the impact push back effect of the weapon. Simply put: When somebody hits me With a HMG its an almost guaranteed kill for the fatty. When hit by a HMG the game stops working for me. I can hardly move at all. My dudette slows Down to a Virtual stop, making the rest of the fire hit and then I'm dead. It negates all sort of speed advantage my suit has over the fatty, well at least from that point on. Every weapon not counting the OHKs give me a chance to survive after the initial hit, if I can doddge and get to cover in a timely and swaggalisious manner. With the HMG its: "Get hit by one bullet and you can't possibly Dodge the next 200 cause you simply can't move due to being hit....". Its an unfair advantage IMO. If I actually could move while being hit I'd stand a chance to let superior movement, skill and gungame win the day. These days I have to pick my fights vs the HMG fattys With care, and I suppose thats the point. And I do understand a certain pushback/movement stopping effect when you're hit by such an awesome weapon, I simply mean that the effect is too strong atm, giving anyone caught in that Death ray little to no chance of escaping. This effect needs to be taken out of the game! It can also be caused by the Combat Rifle, and Rail Riffle to a degree. Any high rate of fire weapon. Every bullet that hits you slows you down more. It also prevents you from sprinting. It was added to the game a long time ago. Before hit detection was fixed you never got hit by enough bullets to notice. After hit detection was fixed I started noticing it. When the Combat Rifle, and Rail Rifle were added, and the HMG was fixed, it became a lot more noticeable. I have been referring to it as the Sloth effect. It is the one aspect of this game which makes me want to throw my controller through the TV screen. I donGÇÖt think it is needed now that hit detection works better. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2719	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:31:00 - [51] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: And tanks are not OP either. That is why everyone and their mother is spamming them. It's all fine. Nothing stops ppl from using the heavy suit rather than another suit. That's the problem. If it isn't any better then ehy is it the goto suit for most anything where you don't want to get killed easily? Actually, with the exception of perma rep tanks, they are not OP. They only appear to be OP because Swarm Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and AV grenades are UP. Edit: So hopefully Shotguns and Nova Knives will be properly balanced. I donGÇÖt think any Heavy has a resistance to Nova Knives, and only Caldari/Minmitar Sentinels have resistance to Shotguns. Caldari/Minmitar Sentinels will not have as much health as the other two Sentinels. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1862	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:35:00 - [52] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Actually, with the exception of perma rep tanks, they are not OP. They only appear to be OP because Swarm Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and AV grenades are UP. I totally agree with this. If CCP had buffed vehicles but left AV alone, the game would be very close to balanced between infantry and vehicles. (Dropships would be a bit too vulnerable still, but that could be figured out.) I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2722	Posted - 2014.03.04 19:51:00 - [53] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Actually, with the exception of perma rep tanks, they are not OP. They only appear to be OP because Swarm Launchers, Plasma Cannons, and AV grenades are UP. I totally agree with this. If CCP had buffed vehicles but left AV alone, the game would be very close to balanced between infantry and vehicles. (Dropships would be a bit too vulnerable still, but that could be figured out.) Actually the Swarm Launcher did need a nerf. It just did not need a 33% damage nerf on top of a 43% range nerf. However our best chance at balance now is to give small buffs to the underpowered AV weapons, and then reassess the situation after a few weeks when the game has had time to find its new balance. Then we will have a better idea of how close we are to V/AV balance and calculate another small AV buff to get us the rest of the way there. When CCP tries to get to balance in one big step, they usually overstep the mark as they did with the 1.7 AV nerf. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 454	Posted - 2014.03.04 20:04:00 - [54] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Forge Guns are darn good for it as well, the problem is the rail rifle, 3 dmg mods, plus proficiency is well over 80dmg a shot! The sentinel only has one high slot. How can it put three damage mods on? I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 561	Posted - 2014.03.04 20:46:00 - [55] - Quote The issue with sentinels using light weapons comes down to this: Assuming that you are within the HMGs optimum range, no rifle (assault/combat/rail/scrambler) should be more effective to use than the HMG. If it turns out that any of those rifles (particularly when combined with damage mods) can outperform the HMG, it seriously mitigates the purpose of 50% of a heavy's "true" weaponry. Life is killing me.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 321	Posted - 2014.03.04 20:51:00 - [56] - Quote No I'm not mad when I die from a heavy with a light weapon. Do I say "wow what a coward"? sure do because it's true. it's a rarity and they aren't that effective. No rr is not op.


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