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JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 75	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:13:00 - [1] - Quote Right now some people deal 899 damage in 1 or 2 seconds with a CR on a suit that has half that HP, when it sounds like they're 2 shots. I don't know if that's a turbo controller or not, but it can't be normal and always happens, like it had a 500% dmg on armor. Personally i think the Combat Rifles are way more OP than the Rail Rifle, at least the RR is not good for the turbo controller thanks to the charge-up time. Please at least check how it's actually working, i think it's weird.
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 29	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:29:00 - [2] - Quote Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 76	Posted - 2014.02.26 19:47:00 - [3] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. Yeah, but we can talk about a damage problem in the RR. We all know how it shoots and maybe it's too powerful and versatile. But the CR?? it's a burst... that sometimes bursts too fast to be a 3 shot burst and even in a single burst it sometimes deals 399 dmg... it's a weird and confusing weapon and i think it has to be checked. I did know of the RR nerf in 1.8 but i wasn't aware of anything CR related. As for turbo controllers, they are an actual issue. People use it on scrambler rifles and even in ARs. Yesterday i saw a video test of the difference between the recoil of an AR first using a regular controller and then with a turbo controller. with turbo it has no recoil at all and the RoF works just as fast. here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzISdIq-JYQ Besides, i'm affraid that the CR doesn't have a strict minimal pause between bursts as other rifles and maybe that's what allows it to be abused by these means or at least unbalanced.
Western Ways Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:00:00 - [4] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. Yeah, but we can talk about a damage problem in the RR. We all know how it shoots and maybe it's too powerful and versatile. But the CR?? it's a burst... that sometimes bursts too fast to be a 3 shot burst and even in a single burst it sometimes deals 399 dmg... it's a weird and confusing weapon and i think it has to be checked. I did know of the RR nerf in 1.8 but i wasn't aware of anything CR related. As for turbo controllers, they are an actual issue. People use it on scrambler rifles and even in ARs. Yesterday i saw a video test of the difference between the recoil of an AR first using a regular controller and then with a turbo controller. with turbo it has no recoil at all and the RoF works just as fast. here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzISdIq-JYQ Besides, i'm affraid that the CR doesn't have a strict minimal pause between bursts as other rifles and maybe that's what allows it to be abused by these means or at least unbalanced. Dude, that's the assault combat rifle in the video, it's fully automatic and it does less damage than the regular CR, if you're gonna call for nerfs at least know what you're talking about. Edit: but i did see what you're talking about with the turbo controller though, pardon me for comin off like a douche, i just woke up. Wow ... I'm really intrigued, although that could just be the intriguinol i took this morning.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:02:00 - [5] - Quote The problem the CR has it will always be OP if it has no delay between birsts but will become underpowered if a delay is added, i suggest crank up the accuracy and make it single burst, it will still be effective and for guys like me that can tap out six to seven shots in a second it won't lose effectiveness When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:03:00 - [6] - Quote Oh and in it's current form i can tap out four to five bursts a second When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 76	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:10:00 - [7] - Quote Western Ways wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. Yeah, but we can talk about a damage problem in the RR. We all know how it shoots and maybe it's too powerful and versatile. But the CR?? it's a burst... that sometimes bursts too fast to be a 3 shot burst and even in a single burst it sometimes deals 399 dmg... it's a weird and confusing weapon and i think it has to be checked. I did know of the RR nerf in 1.8 but i wasn't aware of anything CR related. As for turbo controllers, they are an actual issue. People use it on scrambler rifles and even in ARs. Yesterday i saw a video test of the difference between the recoil of an AR first using a regular controller and then with a turbo controller. with turbo it has no recoil at all and the RoF works just as fast. here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzISdIq-JYQ Besides, i'm affraid that the CR doesn't have a strict minimal pause between bursts as other rifles and maybe that's what allows it to be abused by these means or at least unbalanced. Dude, that's the assault combat rifle in the video, it's fully automatic and it does less damage than the regular CR, if you're gonna call for nerfs at least know what you're talking about. Edit: but i did see what you're talking about with the turbo controller though, pardon me for comin off like a douche, i just woke up. In case this wasn't included in your apology, that was an assault rifle on the video, not CR. Just making a point.
G Torq ALTA B2O 445	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:20:00 - [8] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Besides, i'm affraid that the CR doesn't have a strict minimal pause between bursts as other rifles and maybe that's what allows it to be abused by these means or at least unbalanced. First, a couple of links... A CR: http://www.stuff514.com/sde/type/365441 Comparison of CR and ACR: http://dust.thang.dk/showgearcomparison.php?gear=363491,365443 If you look, you'll see that both the ACR and the CR has a fire-rate of 0.05, which means there is a 0.05 second delay between each shot. with the CR, there is then the 3-shot burst, with a 0.06 interval, meaning between each burst, there is a 0.06 second delay. This is hardly noticeable, but you should be able to see it, if you use a turbo-controller and record the output (barely - screen-redraw-rate will get a bit in your way). So, a strict minimal pause between bursts exists (0.06 seconds...) Team Fairy DUST HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:25:00 - [9] - Quote To be really honest CRs really aren't as OP as this thread claims since besides basic plasma cannons and shotguns they have less range than every other light primary weapon When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Western Ways Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:26:00 - [10] - Quote The controller does seem a little unsportsman like, but I'm not sure CCP could do anything about it. I do see hella potential for CR abuse though. Wow ... I'm really intrigued, although that could just be the intriguinol i took this morning.

killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:39:00 - [11] - Quote Exactly, it's the turbo controller users, CRs aren't unbalanced weapon so cheating the system doesn't warrant a change When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 30	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:47:00 - [12] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Exactly, it's the turbo controller users, CRs aren't unbalanced weapon so cheating the system doesn't warrant a change I'd disagree - there needs to be an input delay, literally how long it takes to pull the trigger for each burst. The burst rate is fine, yes, but the interim period between bursts is not. This interim period (the trigger pull) is where the fire rate needs to be changed to something higher (time wise). A burst gun IS a fast fire gun, but it's meant to be a semi-automatic in essence with each trigger pull being a burst rather than one shot. I'd say that the fire rate for an RR might not be a bad measure - the time it takes between each automatic shot on a RR as the time between each burst on a CR. The CR is still pumping triple the rounds downrange, the guns are different by virtue of control style and utility - a RR is more constant fire and aggressive in its stance where a CR would be more tactically oriented (such as shooting around cover) where burst fire deals more dmg in a short time, but over time the guns are equalized and balanced. This sort of mechanic renders exterior controls unimportant. Jam the trigger as much as you want, the input itself is regulated. Imagine if swarm launchers had this problem! 8 missiles instantly! WOO! Food for thought. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 76	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:53:00 - [13] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: To be really honest CRs really aren't as OP as this thread claims since besides basic plasma cannons and shotguns they have less range than every other light primary weapon I'm not saying it's OP. But weird things happen with it sometimes that maybe need some checking. For example, sometimes i'm badly hurt by some enemies, and when i'm escaping i stumble on a guy who kills me with a CR in one shot. Everything seems fine... but the kill screen says "damage dealt: 399 (or over 400)" when i'm sure that dude hadn't shot me before. And it happens too often in too many circumstances, so it can't be always headshots. That's the kind of thing i find strange... The bonus damage on armor appears to be extremely high sometimes.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1162	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:57:00 - [14] - Quote A few things: 1. A turbo controller will not allow you to take full advantage of the CR, as 99% of turbo controllers do not allow full customization of the turbo rate. Much like the scrambler pistol, attempting to fire your second burst/shot too early results in the input being ignored. Too late, and obviously you could be doing better. Optimal CR usage requires that you get a feel for the gun and work your trigger finger. 2. In my experience, the issue with the CR seeming to do excessive damage in one burst comes from the fact that bursting fast enough makes the bursts faster than the burst sound and animation, so that you can squeeze two in in the time it takes for the game to show one firing. Your ammo consumption will reflect the actual number of bullets being fired.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 256	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:58:00 - [15] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. Yeah, but we can talk about a damage problem in the RR. We all know how it shoots and maybe it's too powerful and versatile. But the CR?? it's a burst... that sometimes bursts too fast to be a 3 shot burst and even in a single burst it sometimes deals 399 dmg... it's a weird and confusing weapon and i think it has to be checked. I did know of the RR nerf in 1.8 but i wasn't aware of anything CR related. As for turbo controllers, they are an actual issue. People use it on scrambler rifles and even in ARs. Yesterday i saw a video test of the difference between the recoil of an AR first using a regular controller and then with a turbo controller. with turbo it has no recoil at all and the RoF works just as fast. here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzISdIq-JYQ Besides, i'm affraid that the CR doesn't have a strict minimal pause between bursts as other rifles and maybe that's what allows it to be abused by these means or at least unbalanced. Honestly i tried compare AR with RR and i tell you the AR is better about versatility. You killing on short and medium range beautifully with stable fast rate of fire. RR or Gaussie, how i nicknamed it, is great for long to medium range but on short or even CQC its loosing a lot. There should not be a nerf for any rifle, but there should be a proper tinking with that. Like CCP made it with LR in 1.8 what i taking like good step forward. Nerf of any weapon just make a another FoTM favoritism nothing else. And finaly about CB, it is little too sharpshooting from my side of view (by the lore the gauss technology should be a king with aimend sharpshooting, with laser poitering arms of amarr), minmatar tech should be basicaly fast (by autocannons and whole that fast spiting technique) fast but not sharp in aim like Caldari for example. Overall i thing all rifles are good and what is needed is just really carefull tinking with them to make them same, but different aswell. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 20:59:00 - [16] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Exactly, it's the turbo controller users, CRs aren't unbalanced weapon so cheating the system doesn't warrant a change I'd disagree - there needs to be an input delay, literally how long it takes to pull the trigger for each burst. The burst rate is fine, yes, but the interim period between bursts is not. This interim period (the trigger pull) is where the fire rate needs to be changed to something higher (time wise). A burst gun IS a fast fire gun, but it's meant to be a semi-automatic in essence with each trigger pull being a burst rather than one shot. I'd say that the fire rate for an RR might not be a bad measure - the time it takes between each automatic shot on a RR as the time between each burst on a CR. The CR is still pumping triple the rounds downrange, the guns are different by virtue of control style and utility - a RR is more constant fire and aggressive in its stance where a CR would be more tactically oriented (such as shooting around cover) where burst fire deals more dmg in a short time, but over time the guns are equalized and balanced. This sort of mechanic renders exterior controls unimportant. Jam the trigger as much as you want, the input itself is regulated. Imagine if swarm launchers had this problem! 8 missiles instantly! WOO! Food for thought. Somewhat true but i've already had people survive entire or near entire clips of my CRs again and again, mainly commandos which is how it is with my ARs too, the range and similar power to ARs make them balanced and they take a lot of skill since the low range leaves me maneuvering a whole lot to fight peoole effectively When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 76	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:00:00 - [17] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Exactly, it's the turbo controller users, CRs aren't unbalanced weapon so cheating the system doesn't warrant a change I'd disagree - there needs to be an input delay, literally how long it takes to pull the trigger for each burst. The burst rate is fine, yes, but the interim period between bursts is not. This interim period (the trigger pull) is where the fire rate needs to be changed to something higher (time wise). A burst gun IS a fast fire gun, but it's meant to be a semi-automatic in essence with each trigger pull being a burst rather than one shot. I'd say that the fire rate for an RR might not be a bad measure - the time it takes between each automatic shot on a RR as the time between each burst on a CR. The CR is still pumping triple the rounds downrange, the guns are different by virtue of control style and utility - a RR is more constant fire and aggressive in its stance where a CR would be more tactically oriented (such as shooting around cover) where burst fire deals more dmg in a short time, but over time the guns are equalized and balanced. This sort of mechanic renders exterior controls unimportant. Jam the trigger as much as you want, the input itself is regulated. Imagine if swarm launchers had this problem! 8 missiles instantly! WOO! Food for thought. Well, if swarm launchers didn't need the lock-on time it would be a problem. As i said in a previous comment, the RR doesn't allow modded controllers abuse thanks to the in-game mechanic that is the charge-up time. If delays between shots in the game are inevitable no matter what exterior trick you use, then it's not a big deal.
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 76	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:14:00 - [18] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: Honestly i tried compare AR with RR and i tell you the AR is better about versatility. You killing on short and medium range beautifully with stable fast rate of fire. RR or Gaussie, how i nicknamed it, is great for long to medium range but on short or even CQC its loosing a lot. There should not be a nerf for any rifle, but there should be a proper tinking with that. Like CCP made it with LR in 1.8 what i taking like good step forward. Nerf of any weapon just make a another FoTM favoritism nothing else. And finaly about CB, it is little too sharpshooting from my side of view (by the lore the gauss technology should be a king with aimend sharpshooting, with laser poitering arms of amarr), minmatar tech should be basicaly fast (by autocannons and whole that fast spiting technique) fast but not sharp in aim like Caldari for example. Overall i thing all rifles are good and what is needed is just really carefull tinking with them to make them same, but different aswell. Well, by versatile i meant that as a medium to long range weapon the RR is too accurate in hipfire so it works extremely well in CQC if you're a good shot. The Tactical AR in the other hand has a huge dispersion when hip-fired, so it's not as good as ADS, which i think is positive in terms of balance. Same happens to the Sniper Rifle: due to it's very high damage and long range design, it doesn't even have crosshairs for hipfire. I love the RR, but maybe that's something that could cause it to feel OP. A little note: In the spanish version of the game, the Rail Rifle was translated as "Gauss". Same as Railgun turrets.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:21:00 - [19] - Quote Honestly i always wanted CRs to have range like a GEK AR at STD level, decent power but semi-autosingle burst and the same recoil, that's my dream weapon right there and how i wanted combat rifles When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 30	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:31:00 - [20] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Exactly, it's the turbo controller users, CRs aren't unbalanced weapon so cheating the system doesn't warrant a change I'd disagree - there needs to be an input delay, literally how long it takes to pull the trigger for each burst. The burst rate is fine, yes, but the interim period between bursts is not. This interim period (the trigger pull) is where the fire rate needs to be changed to something higher (time wise). A burst gun IS a fast fire gun, but it's meant to be a semi-automatic in essence with each trigger pull being a burst rather than one shot. I'd say that the fire rate for an RR might not be a bad measure - the time it takes between each automatic shot on a RR as the time between each burst on a CR. The CR is still pumping triple the rounds downrange, the guns are different by virtue of control style and utility - a RR is more constant fire and aggressive in its stance where a CR would be more tactically oriented (such as shooting around cover) where burst fire deals more dmg in a short time, but over time the guns are equalized and balanced. This sort of mechanic renders exterior controls unimportant. Jam the trigger as much as you want, the input itself is regulated. Imagine if swarm launchers had this problem! 8 missiles instantly! WOO! Food for thought. Somewhat true but i've already had people survive entire or near entire clips of my CRs again and again, mainly commandos which is how it is with my ARs too, the range and similar power to ARs make them balanced and they take a lot of skill since the low range leaves me maneuvering a whole lot to fight peoole effectively Perhaps CR's should be modified as I said but let's solve your problem too! 1) Increase interim fire time, as mentioned above to deal with controller problem and bring gun more in line with its intended gameplay style (it's not a machine gun - it's a semi-auto burst gun). 2) Increase the DMG of the gun, but maintain or maybe even lower the range somewhat. This enables it as a close range assault weapon You then have RR - ScR - AR - CR, with range on one end and dmg on the other. Depending on the situation, each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. (In this setup, RR's probably need a slight dmg decrease to bring this in line). -RR and ScR excel at range in an assault weapon, with one more accurate and the other more ammo effective. Great for defending or assaulting at distance against other medium and light frames. -CR and AR excel at close quarters, one more "bullet hose" the other more immediate, pinpoint dmg. Great for raiding or defending against raiders, which are typically medium and heavy frames warranting more power, less range, and a little less accuracy usually. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!

killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 25	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:46:00 - [21] - Quote Aerius i like your thinking, decrease basic CRs to the range of ACRs then kick up the power, CR users get a good niche and anyone with and AR decently outranges them making everyone happy When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.02.26 21:47:00 - [22] - Quote High DPS from RR and CR - not a problem. This situation can and must fix by this. ...sorry for bad English =)
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1489	Posted - 2014.02.26 22:28:00 - [23] - Quote Make the CR jam if bursts are fired too fast in sucession. Problem solved. Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2142	Posted - 2014.02.26 22:35:00 - [24] - Quote It should be RR - ScR - CR - AR. Gallente weapons are supposed to be short range high damage. CR should be adaptable to multiple situations keeping in line with Minmatar philosophy and should be medium range medium damage. If you add a slightly longer delay or slightly reduce the ROF of the CR you can minimize the effect of modded controllers without changing it's non-cheating effectiveness much. (Btw, for 1.8 all the racial rifles are getting a damage nerf afaik to bring them in line with the other weapons and increase TTK) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 26	Posted - 2014.02.26 22:50:00 - [25] - Quote You're too right john about how versatile it should be but it was made short range so the fix should increase its range or make it better at close range When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 258	Posted - 2014.02.26 23:44:00 - [26] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: Honestly i tried compare AR with RR and i tell you the AR is better about versatility. You killing on short and medium range beautifully with stable fast rate of fire. RR or Gaussie, how i nicknamed it, is great for long to medium range but on short or even CQC its loosing a lot. There should not be a nerf for any rifle, but there should be a proper tinking with that. Like CCP made it with LR in 1.8 what i taking like good step forward. Nerf of any weapon just make a another FoTM favoritism nothing else. And finaly about CB, it is little too sharpshooting from my side of view (by the lore the gauss technology should be a king with aimend sharpshooting, with laser poitering arms of amarr), minmatar tech should be basicaly fast (by autocannons and whole that fast spiting technique) fast but not sharp in aim like Caldari for example. Overall i thing all rifles are good and what is needed is just really carefull tinking with them to make them same, but different aswell. Well, by versatile i meant that as a medium to long range weapon the RR is too accurate in hipfire so it works extremely well in CQC if you're a good shot. The Tactical AR in the other hand has a huge dispersion when hip-fired, so it's not as good as ADS, which i think is positive in terms of balance. Same happens to the Sniper Rifle: due to it's very high damage and long range design, it doesn't even have crosshairs for hipfire. I love the RR, but maybe that's something that could cause it to feel OP. A little note: In the spanish version of the game, the Rail Rifle was translated as "Gauss". Same as Railgun turrets. The Gauss is proper name i think they used RAIL for better understanding about that technique itself. I know it is a Rail with set of electromagnets, but somehow i feel name RAIL like for dumb ones, honestly ad without any offence. But back to the RR and AR, how i told i tried them and what was my observation i have more kills actually with the AR throught whole try. But for my need i prefered purely Gaussie, because like support im not atacker in first line, but still behind squad mates. BTW if you give gaussie bigger dispersion (whe hipfire) i think there will be bigger posibility ti take down anyone in CQC and reason is just because you-¦ll basicaly cover bigger area in front of you. Now its 50x50. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 27	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:30:00 - [27] - Quote The RR is supposed to be very high power but low ROF i propose kick up the power and range a bit but make it like a rail turret where it has a charge up on each shot as well as increase accuracy and for assault decrease the charge up time for each shot and decrease the power by a good deal but have very little kick When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 701	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:30:00 - [28] - Quote i dont see any need to increase dmg for rr. and no reason to even increase range as it out ranges nearly every gun already. the many times ive gone up against a rr with my hmg. the rr user which would have alot less tank than me. would get me down to around 100 armor left. or kill me. kinda the same with the cr as well. even though i start shooting first. those guns will just plow straight through my shields and armor as if it was paper or something. in fact i think paper would offer better protection from those guns.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 27	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:01:00 - [29] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i dont see any need to increase dmg for rr. and no reason to even increase range as it out ranges nearly every gun already. the many times ive gone up against a rr with my hmg. the rr user which would have alot less tank than me. would get me down to around 100 armor left. or kill me. kinda the same with the cr as well. even though i start shooting first. those guns will just plow straight through my shields and armor as if it was paper or something. in fact i think paper would offer better protection from those guns. My ARs eat through heavies too, you seriously need more armor unless you're a commando When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
VikingKong iBUN Third Rock From The Sun 25	Posted - 2014.02.27 23:07:00 - [30] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Make the CR jam if bursts are fired too fast in sucession. Problem solved. **** no

Royalgiedro Nor Clan Combat Logistics 7	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:14:00 - [31] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Exactly, it's the turbo controller users, CRs aren't unbalanced weapon so cheating the system doesn't warrant a change I'd disagree - there needs to be an input delay, literally how long it takes to pull the trigger for each burst. The burst rate is fine, yes, but the interim period between bursts is not. This interim period (the trigger pull) is where the fire rate needs to be changed to something higher (time wise). A burst gun IS a fast fire gun, but it's meant to be a semi-automatic in essence with each trigger pull being a burst rather than one shot. I'd say that the fire rate for an RR might not be a bad measure - the time it takes between each automatic shot on a RR as the time between each burst on a CR. The CR is still pumping triple the rounds downrange, the guns are different by virtue of control style and utility - a RR is more constant fire and aggressive in its stance where a CR would be more tactically oriented (such as shooting around cover) where burst fire deals more dmg in a short time, but over time the guns are equalized and balanced. This sort of mechanic renders exterior controls unimportant. Jam the trigger as much as you want, the input itself is regulated. Imagine if swarm launchers had this problem! 8 missiles instantly! WOO! Food for thought. they should add a .2 seconds delay or something similar. 5bursts max per second is still super powerful without letting modded controllers take a huge advantage over it.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 5111	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:52:00 - [32] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. Shame they couldn't have taken that route with the Plasma Cannon #9monthslater Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 33	Posted - 2014.02.28 05:35:00 - [33] - Quote Royalgiedro i disagree on .2 delay since the rail rifle is .25 but i woukd make it .05, not much of difference but it would be noticeable to a rapid shooter like me and there's even a good argument to make it have a .1 delay but then it woukd be uunderpowered, the CR needs rapid fire due to it's low damage per shot When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 128	Posted - 2014.03.02 07:37:00 - [34] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: It should be RR - ScR - CR - AR. Gallente we supposed to be short range high damage. CR should be adaptable to multiple situations keeping in line with Minmatar philosophy and should be medium range medium damage. If you add a slightly longer delay or slightly reduce the ROF of the CR you can minimize the effect of modded controllers without changing it's non-cheating effectiveness much. (Btw, for 1.8 all the racial rifles are getting a damage nerf afaik to bring them in line with the other weapons and increase TTK) Part of the problem, I think, is that CCP is trying to balance weapons of different (intended) play styles - longer distance Rails, charge-up Scramblers, burst Combats and fully auto (Gallente) Assaults. The best first step would actually be balancing the fully automatic versions of each and THEN adjust the signature versions accordingly. So, as JD stated, the optimal distance for each fully auto version should be (from long to short) : ARR - AScR - ACR - AAR There should also be some drop off in efficiency for each weapon outside of its optimal range. (Which does not seem to be the case currently for the Rail Rifle.) The 'on paper' damage per second of each fully auto weapon should also be fairly similar, with any in-game variations coming from the shooter's damage mods and the targets' shield/armour type and suit resistance bonuses. Only after all that has been balanced, the burst, breach, charged shot, etc versions can be introduced/corrected without issues.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 128	Posted - 2014.03.02 07:40:00 - [35] - Quote .
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 791	Posted - 2014.03.02 15:06:00 - [36] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: Both CR and RR have been cited as needing balance, probably coming in 1.8. New weapons always run the risk of being OP - developers naturally want their hard work to succeed but sometimes make things 'too' good. The CR and RR are not way overpowered but they could use some work. As for the turbo controller, you've got me on that one - I've not seen this issue. Yeah, but we can talk about a damage problem in the RR. We all know how it shoots and maybe it's too powerful and versatile. But the CR?? it's a burst... that sometimes bursts too fast to be a 3 shot burst and even in a single burst it sometimes deals 399 dmg... it's a weird and confusing weapon and i think it has to be checked. I did know of the RR nerf in 1.8 but i wasn't aware of anything CR related. As for turbo controllers, they are an actual issue. People use it on scrambler rifles and even in ARs. Yesterday i saw a video test of the difference between the recoil of an AR first using a regular controller and then with a turbo controller. with turbo it has no recoil at all and the RoF works just as fast. here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzISdIq-JYQ Besides, i'm affraid that the CR doesn't have a strict minimal pause between bursts as other rifles and maybe that's what allows it to be abused by these means or at least unbalanced. That was a link from last year about the AR. Check your **** post before posting it. Turbo is not an issue, there is a minimum pause between bursts it is just much lower than the Burst AR Derp pause that CCP implemented. LogiGod earns his pips


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