DUST Search - Tanks - Real Tanks to our Imaginary tanks

Spkr4theDead wrote:

Tebu Gan wrote:

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:

Zahle Undt wrote:

Flix Keptick wrote:

To the people saying "irl it takes a crew to drive a tank" well guess what! A single person can control a 16km long ship in the eve universe!!! How cool is that? It's also called computer assisted controls :D

To op: It's the madrugar that has the insane gun depression. Gunnlogi can't shoot infantry that get too close.

No kidding really!? Hey its tankers that continually say it should take multiple AVers to take them out which is just as silly am argument. Also as the OP pointed out tanks should be feared but also have to fear being flanked by infantry or infantry getting close enough to sticky bomb them all Saving Private Ryan style. Right now our triple hardener stacked tanks have virtually no weaknesses to infantry and that is the problem.

When tanks can willingly reduce the number of engaged hostile AV users to only 1 at a time, then you might have a point.

You don't have a point, and sound quite absurd because of the fact that tanks will always be engaged by multiple people at once. Just being in a tank already causes the attention of every player within a 100 meter radius to look in your direction. In other words, 1v1 is impossible unless the infantry being targeted is running alone for some unknown reason. Once spotted, the only way for a tank to lose the attention of a combatant is to speed away.

Dropsuits on the other hand can sneak around, or simply run straight up to an enemy and engage 1v1 whenever they feel like it. Albeit a quick blurb over comms can quickly end the 1v1, but it is possible for infantry to get such a situation, and then retreat by cover and loose any pursuant.

Also, I hear a lot of people rant and rave over "triple hardeners" when most fits cannot afford more than 2, only a shield tank might have three, but the limit of hardeners is 2 per health type due to slot and stat constraints.

Can you detail the slot uses of these "Triple hardeners"?

Nobody uses triple hardeners. I've tried them, and typically I'm better off using the last slot for a damage mod, or nitro. Triple hardened tanks are myths.

You obviously don't tank.

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Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 631	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:21:00 - [91] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: If you guys want tanks main weapons to be mainly AV, what we need for tanks is an actual purpose beyond infantry killing, you know stuff like blowing up walls to let infantry clear out fortified buildings, breaching barricades/infantry chokepoints and destroying / taking out strategic targets and having cannons with actual explosions with actual splash and able to penetrate 1mm thick steel, you know, the kind of stuff that a game I wont name lets us do. Currently these large blasters can penetrate 240mm thick armor, but when it comes to 1mm thick railings it's a no can do. This is what tanks need. A role and purpose beyond simply killing infantry or killing tanks. Additionally, I would say map changes are in order, as a tank should be limited in the areas it can control. Get rid of gun depression for the madrudger, and put them on some hilly terrain. They WILL struggle to hit anything around them like my gunnlogi. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 631	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:28:00 - [92] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: I think tanks are pretty balanced except for one or two things. Tanks in this game do not seem to be subject to inertia. They can go from a full stop to full speed instantly. A real tank can go faster than infantry but it needs maybe 10 seconds (or more) to get to full speed. The same argument holds for slowing down. Tanks should have limited weapon depression. Tanks are far too cheap. The real key though is the current state of AV. It should be feared more than it currently is. Real life AV can hit a tank up to a kilometre away. Swarm Launchers have a maximum lock range of something like 400m. This forces an infantry guy to get suicidally close to a tank to get a good shot. Swarm Launcher range should be bumped up a bit. Real life AV can kill a tank in one or two shots. Swarm Launchers scratch the paint of tanks and light up the user, so tanks/snipers can kill the user. Swarm Launcher damage needs to be increased. Munch Agreed with all but the last one. We had some pretty OP AV pre 1.7, but tanks also cost 1.2 mil (proto fit) a pop. Perhaps now it wouldn't be so bad, but I don't know if I want to go back to swarms 2 shooting tanks. That to me, seems very unbalanced, favoring the AV over the tank. And what kind of tank is it? Is it a threat or are you just wanting to blow up tanks because you think they need to blow up? RL AV may kill a tank NP, but that seems to create an imbalance when a single person can go around blowing up tanks. That one person could easily control the map, freeing up the other 15 people on the team to do whatever they want. Then, tanks are no longer feared and go back to being a joke. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 631	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:31:00 - [93] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Flix Keptick wrote: To the people saying "irl it takes a crew to drive a tank" well guess what! A single person can control a 16km long ship in the eve universe!!! How cool is that? It's also called computer assisted controls :D To op: It's the madrugar that has the insane gun depression. Gunnlogi can't shoot infantry that get too close. No kidding really!? Hey its tankers that continually say it should take multiple AVers to take them out which is just as silly am argument. Also as the OP pointed out tanks should be feared but also have to fear being flanked by infantry or infantry getting close enough to sticky bomb them all Saving Private Ryan style. Right now our triple hardener stacked tanks have virtually no weaknesses to infantry and that is the problem. When tanks can willingly reduce the number of engaged hostile AV users to only 1 at a time, then you might have a point. You don't have a point, and sound quite absurd because of the fact that tanks will always be engaged by multiple people at once. Just being in a tank already causes the attention of every player within a 100 meter radius to look in your direction. In other words, 1v1 is impossible unless the infantry being targeted is running alone for some unknown reason. Once spotted, the only way for a tank to lose the attention of a combatant is to speed away. Dropsuits on the other hand can sneak around, or simply run straight up to an enemy and engage 1v1 whenever they feel like it. Albeit a quick blurb over comms can quickly end the 1v1, but it is possible for infantry to get such a situation, and then retreat by cover and loose any pursuant. Also, I hear a lot of people rant and rave over "triple hardeners" when most fits cannot afford more than 2, only a shield tank might have three, but the limit of hardeners is 2 per health type due to slot and stat constraints. Can you detail the slot uses of these "Triple hardeners"? Nobody uses triple hardeners. I've tried them, and typically I'm better off using the last slot for a damage mod, or nitro. Triple hardened tanks are myths. You obviously don't tank. You obviously get blown up rather often. Tanker noobs go for the 3 hardeners. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 631	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:34:00 - [94] - Quote Bethhy wrote: No tank operates in Real life with just one operator... You need a gunner to operate the turret along with someone to drive the tank. Even more IRL Quote: talking about American Tanks, there are 4 people. Loader, driver, gunner and commander. Russian tanks only have three men; gunner, commander and driver. They have an auto loader. Many American tanks in WW2 had 5, including a radio specialist MAV's should be introduced into DUST that a singular mercenary could drive with limited strength that 1-2 infantry could compete with. The HAV's should need a Driver to "Drive" the tank and gets the small front turret position... And an Actual "Gunner" that operates the main turret of the HAV.... With all the glory and strength potential tanks have now. Will it be hard to get the team work down to max out the potential of the HAV? hell yea... But Imagine being able to evade drive.. while the gunner is fighting the target behind you... The potential is amazing.. With good team work. HAV's will always be a force multiplier problem in DUST. The fact that one person can call in a mechanized unit and increase their battlefield potential by 300% can never be balanced unless it requires more then 1 Mercenary to utilize that potential. I disagree, I think it can be achieved, but tanks need something else to do, to make an effect on the battlefield. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1342	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:40:00 - [95] - Quote Hi CCP! Just wanted to say thanks ... My corp is doing really good in pubs this build! Please increase HAV quota so me and my homeboys can "roll" together more consistently. There's always some bluedot scrub who calls in a dropship or LAV. We really need to get in all six of our tanks every match. Thank you! - DDB
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2919	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:46:00 - [96] - Quote Vehicles need to compliment infantry, not compete with them. It's not only required, it's a good idea. There is no way to balance vehicles when they compete for the same role as a dropsuit. All versions of a role need to be equally powerful or you need to use the best one to be competitive. Right now blaster tanks are the best fitting for slaying infantry. Try an Ambush match if you still require convincing. MLT Somas cost about what any other ADV suits cost, are more powerful than any PRO suit, and require zero SP. STD HAVs bump the price, SP, and power level. That's why ADV and PRO vehicles are totally unthinkable. You can't balance these two as long as they are sharing the same role. It's not just tanks though, dropships need to stop competing with infantry for kills and start assisting infantry make assaults. I've said it many times before, but it bears repeating. The best weapon a dropship has is a squad of mercs armed to the teeth. Differentiation is a good idea. Why does a game get boring? Because it doesn't have enough challenges to master. DUST has one basic game mode and one way to achieve it. Slay infantry by shooting face with the highest DPS available. Fun for a while, but it pales after a few months. Give vehicles new roles of their own and you vastly expand a players options for fun AND make combat more complex and fun for everyone. It's going to require game development. Without destructible environments tanks won't have much to do. Defenders need to be in possession of fortifications at he start of a match to give them a reason to blow stuff up and breach walls. Communication will need to be improved before a dropship pilot can entice and load assault squad for an effective drop, especially in public matches. We will need new game modes that either require or benefit greatly from vehicle use. We need infantry rooting for vehicles on their side, not cursing them for hogging all the kills. You will know when you have gotten it right because you will be able to lift all artificial vehicle limits. You won't find six tanks in Ambush and you may find none, simply because players won't have much to do in one. In other modes you will find a natural balance as players decide for themselves that there are already enough of some type of vehicle for the job and they would find slim pickings if they called in another. CCP, please acknowledge you understand this vital point.
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 189	Posted - 2014.02.26 14:00:00 - [97] - Quote I was in the Army, on Ft Knox which is tank heaven. It's the home of the M1 Abrams. There's a funny little tanker joke on post I'll share. What's the only thing that can kill an Abrams? Old age! There is nothing like it. Any listed speeds you see for it are incorrect. Certain units removed the restrictor plates from the turbines during Desert Storm and could outrun the SF Chenoweth buggies that can do 80 mph. An Abrams can also take a direct hit in its 'weaker side armor' from the main gun on a T72 and only suffer a soda can sized dent. The tanks in game are UP and make me sad. It's even worse that I can't take two steps without tripping over one. Put a cap on them, and put a huge AUR pricetag on a New Eden Abrams. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 631	Posted - 2014.02.26 14:36:00 - [98] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Hi CCP! Just wanted to say thanks ... My corp is doing really good in pubs this build! Please increase HAV quota so me and my homeboys can "roll" together more consistently. There's always some bluedot scrub who calls in a dropship or LAV. We really need to get in all six of our tanks every match. Thank you! - DDB Haha! Rarely do we "Tank Stomp", and typically when provoked(As in the other side wants to play tanks)! Teamwork and coordination are a ***** I know! -DDB Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Thumb Green Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 815	Posted - 2014.02.26 15:48:00 - [99] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Why can't infantry be happy with the changes they forced on CCP? No matter how many times you say that or variants of it; it won't make it true and it only goes to show just how full of sh!t you are. Anyone that was here before the 1.7 update knows it was the "real" tankers like yourself that were constantly whining so much here on the forum about their tanks being too expensive & too weak and AV being OP. You were pathetic before but if you are going to keep trying to say that what happened with tanks and AV is something infantry players actually asked for; well then, you're just beyond pathetic. Hell, you're starting to make Michele Bachmann look like a reasonable person in comparison to you. Support Orbital Spawns
Yan Darn Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 277	Posted - 2014.02.26 16:04:00 - [100] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: In RL infantry fears tanks. In this game infantry fears tanks. I believe CCP captured the essence of that relationship perfectly. In RL tanks fear infantry as well. In this game tanks currently do not fear infantry; not so perfect after all. ^ It's the simple truth that tanks are best at anti infantry and anti vehicle. Whereas infantry is effectively anti-infantry only. I don't see multiple infantry needing to co-ordinate a counter attack as being a viable threat. I use the now infamous 3 RESs and flux combo for over confident MLT tankers, but even that requires someone else to keep the tank distracted and some luck with the REs actually attaching. You probably don't know me. But next time you get gunned down or exploded by a Valor scout...check the name.

CLONE117 True Pros Forever 698	Posted - 2014.02.26 16:28:00 - [101] - Quote the small blaster turret sucks on godly. takes the entire clip just to kill a suit. large blaster doesn't take as much ammo but it takes around20 or so for moving targets like infantry. on the other hand the large blaster is fairly easy to avoid getting killed by. if anything infantry should fear it should be the rail turret. its far easier to kill forgegunners and ppl that pop in an out of cover with em. with blaster its next to impossible. its more suitable to attacking targets that have poor cover or are out in the open and due to the decent rof its a great suppression weapon. ive been able to give enough cover firing to assist in capturing points. so im asisting my team. the problem is those who misuse the vehicle only to try to get as many kills as possible. doesnt really work out for them if they got some1 better skilled gunning for them though. i dont have any problem with tanks. ive been hit by some swarms where id have to run on the first hit though. and its hard to escape with that little bug where u get magnetized to an object of some sort. the only really tough tanks for me when i av is a perma hardened maddy or gunlogi. i sica or soma i can handle no problem. though my idea on doing away with the hardener cycling is to just making activating one hardener of the same type activate all other hardeners of that very same type. lets say player has 3 armor hardeners. activating 1 will activate the other 2 at the same time. could also give em the side effect of slowing them down to make things a little more interesting so they rnt used as get away devices.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 806	Posted - 2014.02.27 01:03:00 - [102] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: I dont think rl has **** to do with our fake space man game, thqt being said one correction, the best way to kill a tank is not another tank, its with an AH 64 McDonald Douglas Apache Helicopter, thats what they were made for. Huuuuurrrrrrrrrrahhhhhhhhhh The Apache is all good. But consider my buddy the Warthog (AKA the A-10 Thunderbolt 2) for a moment. Munch Munch for CPM 1 Campaign Headquarters


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