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The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2260	Posted - 2014.02.25 09:42:00 - [1] - Quote "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3556	Posted - 2014.02.25 09:53:00 - [2] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 964	Posted - 2014.02.25 10:03:00 - [3] - Quote Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. "The unexamined life is not worth living." RNDclan.com
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 488	Posted - 2014.02.25 10:04:00 - [4] - Quote battle academy has to be at least 30,000 wp.
danthrax martin Butcher's Nails 48	Posted - 2014.02.25 10:49:00 - [5] - Quote I went through it today. Running around trying to help out noobs and theres a jackass vet taking out 40 new guys in a tank. He saw nothing wrong cause his alt was new? What the hell. I went around givining ar love taps, calling down lavs for berries, even dropping them for reds and running off. Are they siphoning chump change from alts or something? I just don't get some people. I guess all i can do is find him in game and fk him up? Adv. Commando, AR / swarm Adv. Sentinel, AR / HMG "I need More Ammo!!!"....."Medic!"
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1317	Posted - 2014.02.25 10:55:00 - [6] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. All you need is a few spreadsheets and the ability to read. Welcome to New Eden. {:)}{3GÇó>
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2366	Posted - 2014.02.25 11:55:00 - [7] - Quote CCP does not understand the core rules of shooters get used to this expect many more desgin fumbles "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
PLAYSTTION MercenaryCenter 54	Posted - 2014.02.25 13:19:00 - [8] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. I support this, especially because it means every one gets 1.5mil more sp -Open Beta Vet-13.7 mil sp- Laser+Flaylock Dust 514 recruitment link here
Bax Zanith 48	Posted - 2014.02.25 13:36:00 - [9] - Quote I created an alt a few weeks ago, to see if it was as bad for new players as everyone said. It was far worse then I imagened. There is a varry vague tutorial in place, it just tells you to press buttons. It dosnt tell you why your pushing those buttons, it just tells you to push buttons. It dose give them a one day active booster at the end of the tutorial, but it dosnt explane what the booster dos for you. There needs to be a controlled environment for new players to learn in. I can only hope CCP uses the power of PvE to build a reliable tutorial system, but knowing CCP... I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 363	Posted - 2014.02.25 13:39:00 - [10] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug They shortened the academy because surprise surprise people were farming it with alts for isk, so just like so much else its ****** up a good thing because of people looking to exploit something....

Azura Sakura Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 605	Posted - 2014.02.25 13:45:00 - [11] - Quote danthrax martin wrote: I went through it today. Running around trying to help out noobs and theres a jackass vet taking out 40 new guys in a tank. He saw nothing wrong cause his alt was new? What the hell. I went around givining ar love taps, calling down lavs for berries, even dropping them for reds and running off. Are they siphoning chump change from alts or something? I just don't get some people. I guess all i can do is find him in game and fk him up? Usually bad players, "bored" people, griefers and ass holes make a new account and own the noobs. I guess they have no choice when they make an alt. Since there is no alternative to vets that want to make a new character and play without hurting the new players but that is probably like very few that care about new players.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1672	Posted - 2014.02.25 13:46:00 - [12] - Quote CCP talks a lot of talk about the NPE, but in terms of what's been delivered there's nothing other than a half-assed minimal-time-invested 3 part objective system. It's a prioritization thing, and is best measured by actions, of which, to the best of our knowledge, there are none. The hope is that the NPE is being agressively worked on behind closed doors and depending heavily on input from the CPM. But at this point that's all it can be for the playerbase - hope. Personally, i'm tempted to think that CCP is fully aware that this game is going to absolute hell for new players for a long time to come, and has made the conscious decision to not invest in the NPE, devoting development assets instead to repairing the situation they created in beta. Once again, the playerbase called this a long time ago. I hope to god a change of philosophy has come to Shanghai/Reykjavik wrt the development of DUST. I support SP rollover.
Frost Kitty Fatal Absolution 62	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:25:00 - [13] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. This is a great idea. However if it were to happen, I think they should get the extra 1.5mil after graduating the academy to keep the academy a kind of militia standard thing only... well that can be easily bypassed by waiting on passive sp but it would be the same as it is now anyway. Meow...
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11561	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:26:00 - [14] - Quote DUST has incredibly efficient NPE (New Player Extermination) Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1330	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:31:00 - [15] - Quote Make Academy a PVE training simulation. Aura takes you through the mechanics. Then you can enter a regular pub match where Aura continues to instruct you to do specific things. She comments about how other players are different than the AI. She notes how you get your butt kicked easier. Make the suit you use a special fit that you can't change until the training is over. It will essentially be a proto everything suit. You can't use it outside the tutorial nor fit it differently. The catch is that you can only proceed through the match according to Aura's instructions therefore, Nyain San can't spam new chars just to mess up the intent of the game as they are want to do. That way we get noobs in pubs but they will actually be an asset for the core game objectives. That way the rest of us can relax on the redline and snipe to our heart's desire. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 425	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:37:00 - [16] - Quote all academy battle money should be non transferable too? SoundCloud Recruiter Link Pronounced Grim-e-urs
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1010	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:38:00 - [17] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. Regarding Battle Academy, here's a reminder" CCP Greyscale wrote: This is an ongoing experiment, so we're expecting to make further changes in the coming weeks, to try out new theories and home in on the best experience. Happily, we've got a reasonably comprehensive set of metrics tracking retention and so on, so we have a pretty good overview of the trends involved. If you have any questions, please ask away and I'll try and answer as best I can. Cheers, -Greyscale According to their metrics, it was ok for new players to quickly graduate and be sent to a pack of wild animals. Uprising 1.7 - TANKDOMINATION!!1!!1! LOL Battle Academy LOL Plasma Cannon
Knight Solitaire Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 344	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:40:00 - [18] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. Just another thing to add to the list. No SP cap until the player reaches 10mil SP. Corporation: Fatal Absolution Alliance: General Tso's Alliance
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1673	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:45:00 - [19] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: all academy battle money should be non transferable too? There's like 500 new accounts made every day according to eve-offline.net. It's either a lot of mag players or farmers. Most likely it's both and a better npe might be a little to late if we let these mag players go. +1. Good point. I support SP rollover.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2605	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:47:00 - [20] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: danthrax martin wrote: I went through it today. Running around trying to help out noobs and theres a jackass vet taking out 40 new guys in a tank. He saw nothing wrong cause his alt was new? What the hell. I went around givining ar love taps, calling down lavs for berries, even dropping them for reds and running off. Are they siphoning chump change from alts or something? I just don't get some people. I guess all i can do is find him in game and fk him up? Usually bad players, "bored" people, griefers and ass holes make a new account and own the noobs. I guess they have no choice when they make an alt. Since there is no alternative to vets that want to make a new character and play without hurting the new players but that is probably like very few that care about new players. The alternative is to squad up with a Vet and have them que the squad for a non academe match. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014

Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 116	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:50:00 - [21] - Quote Just a side point... MAG didn't originally have that tutorial. It was like Dust in that it just tossed you into the action without telling you **** about what you were supposed to be doing. Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
Leonid Tybalt Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 268	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:52:00 - [22] - Quote Can't really relate to your sentiments. Mainly because im old enough to have experienced games that, back in the day, expected you to actually read through the instructions manuals to find out how the controls work and other necessary information. Options lets you find the controller scheme, and "Show Info" on every skill and piece of equipment let's you see the exact attributes involved. But "kids these days" are obviously too lazy to do such basic legwork. No, they want "training modes" and "tutorials"...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1352	Posted - 2014.02.25 14:55:00 - [23] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. I'd rather Let new characters Have the Weekly SP cap limits removed until 5 m Skill points. Get them hooked on that sweet persistent skill system drug early But really no player should leave the Battle academy without having a Quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 people get ammo from it. Put down a uplink and have 2 people spawn on it... Use a repair tool. Get 1 kill with a majority of the MLT weapon options.. Call in a MLT tank and get a kill with it. Call in a MLT dropship and stay in the air for 1 minute... Hack 10 objectives.. Hack 5 structures.. Destroy 1 structure... These are basic quests every New mercenary in DUST should have to do before leaving the Battle Academy... We need to TEACH people how to play DUST 514 first... You can hand all the tools you want to a player... Computer generated Tracking systems.. Better suits, Guns... More SP... But it won't improve much if they don't understand the game.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1673	Posted - 2014.02.25 15:00:00 - [24] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. I'd rather Let new characters Have the Weekly SP cap limits removed until 5 m Skill points. Get them hooked on that sweet persistent skill system drug early But really no player should leave the Battle academy without having a Quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 people get ammo from it. Put down a uplink and have 2 people spawn on it... Use a repair tool. Get 1 kill with a majority of the MLT weapon options.. Call in a MLT tank and get a kill with it. Call in a MLT dropship and stay in the air for 1 minute... Hack 10 objectives.. Hack 5 structures.. Destroy 1 structure... These are basic quests every New mercenary in DUST should have to do before leaving the Battle Academy... We need to TEACH people how to play DUST 514 first... You can hand all the tools you want to a player... Computer generated Tracking systems.. Better suits, Guns... More SP... But it won't improve much if they don't understand the game. +1. Great suggestions and analysis, Bethy. And in a way that minimizes time invested for CCP and will produce good results for new players. I support SP rollover.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3561	Posted - 2014.02.25 15:07:00 - [25] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug They shortened the academy because surprise surprise people were farming it with alts for isk, so just like so much else its ****** up a good thing because of people looking to exploit something.... Somehow, it seems like that "fix" screwed new players more than old. They could've reduced the rewards. They could have a parallel economy, where most of your battle rewards are in "Academy tokens" that are only good while you can still use the academy, and/or can only be used on skillbooks and STD equipment. I wouldn't personally give them 2 million SP to start, or leave the SP uncapped to 5 million. I think that would be unlikely to happen to begin with because I assume a large chunk of AUR sales go towards boosters, and removing the cap removes a large incentive to use them. I think something closer to the cerebral accelerators, etc. you can get on new characters in EVE, where you have something that's only good for X time or in this case... while you're in the academy or till you hit 30k/whatever WP. For the period it's active, your weekly SP cap is doubled (old-school doubling that impacts both passive and active battle sp, but not regular passive SP, and the double cap can be affected by boosters). Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1352	Posted - 2014.02.25 15:12:00 - [26] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I wouldn't personally give them 2 million SP to start, or leave the SP uncapped to 5 million. I think that would be unlikely to happen to begin with because I assume a large chunk of AUR sales go towards boosters, and removing the cap removes a large incentive to use them. I think something closer to the cerebral accelerators, etc. you can get on new characters in EVE, where you have something that's only good for X time or in this case... while you're in the academy or till you hit 30k/whatever WP. For the period it's active, your weekly SP cap is doubled (old-school doubling that impacts both passive and active battle sp, but not regular passive SP, and the double cap can be affected by boosters). Being able to use a Passive booster and active booster and still have to earn your SP? just no weekly cap limit that often turns people off at the start... When you become a vet though you see it as a necessity. The boosters with that would still make a massive improvement... and people who use boosters and the 5m SP could become competitive on the DUST scene somewhat quickly.. Giving new up and coming corporations more Room to expand and get stronger within a few months instead of half a year and a handful of really good friends. The main loss in sales would be Aurum Items reducing the skill need... As you will be able to gain basic set of gear somewhat quickly adverse to the slow purposeful grind of the weekly cap system.
Dheez Kinsho Swords Caldari State 74	Posted - 2014.02.25 16:32:00 - [27] - Quote Short timeframe in Academy means New Players will be forced to explore AUR fits (spend real money) if they ever expect to survive long enough against veterans, instead of relying solely on freebie startup kits. I agree with the idea of longer Academy time with the option of respec once you graduate into the field.
SHANN da MAN D3LTA FORC3 173	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:28:00 - [28] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. I'd rather Let new characters Have the Weekly SP cap limits removed until 5 m Skill points. Get them hooked on that sweet persistent skill system drug early But really no player should leave the Battle academy without having a Quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 people get ammo from it. Put down a uplink and have 2 people spawn on it... Use a repair tool. Get 1 kill with a majority of the MLT weapon options.. Call in a MLT tank and get a kill with it. Call in a MLT dropship and stay in the air for 1 minute... Hack 10 objectives.. Hack 5 structures.. Destroy 1 structure... These are basic quests every New mercenary in DUST should have to do before leaving the Battle Academy... We need to TEACH people how to play DUST 514 first... You can hand all the tools you want to a player... Computer generated Tracking systems.. Better suits, Guns... More SP... But it won't improve much if they don't understand the game. You forgot about Squad Tasks ... maybe they can add a Command Academy from 15,000WP to 30,000WP, one step above Battle Academy, sort of advanced NUB's leading Raw NUB's Become Squad Leader Issue 1 of each type of Squad Order Call in Warbarge Strike nothing to see here ... move along
waistr planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 115	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:02:00 - [29] - Quote Reality check give away free isk? SP? weapons? suits? how are you going to start that ? LetGÇÖs say you start today, what about the player that started, yesterday, last week, last month, last year? everyone will want it. Give them all the sp in the world they are still going to be slaughtered for months no way around that fact, we all were. Trying to make it easy for them at the start will not change anything, they will still go out into the real game and face a squad of WTF,( we all know how that will end), some will still quit some will stay. this is a hardcore shooter with consequences, itGÇÖs the reason I play I have 30 mil SP and still toss the controller across the room. Make joining a corporation mandatory part of character creation is the best solution, Im always willing to teach from my mistakes, lots of us are, I've made plenty This is a harsh game. .
Faunher Ivory Vanguard 135	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:15:00 - [30] - Quote waistr wrote: Reality check give away free isk? SP? weapons? suits? how are you going to start that ? LetGÇÖs say you start today, what about the player that started, yesterday, last week, last month, last year? everyone will want it. Give them all the sp in the world they are still going to be slaughtered for months no way around that fact, we all were. Trying to make it easy for them at the start will not change anything, they will still go out into the real game and face a squad of WTF,( we all know how that will end), some will still quit some will stay. this is a hardcore shooter with consequences, itGÇÖs the reason I play I have 30 mil SP and still toss the controller across the room. Make joining a corporation mandatory part of character creation is the best solution, Im always willing to teach from my mistakes, lots of us are, I've made plenty This is a harsh game. . This is pretty much the same philosophy CCP has adopted, not necessarily in plan, but in action. Do you know what the consequence of that is? An unfriendly environment that does not encourage retention of new players, but rewards veterans who exploit the naivety and general lack of knowledge of these new players. Games that have no incoming players die. It's true that New Eden is tough as **** and can be a cruel mistress, but this newbie-phobia that CCP has seemed to adopt is killing Dust. This game has massive potential, but the basic fundamental aspects of it are so horribly flawed.

Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1417	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:41:00 - [31] - Quote why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works? when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics
Faunher Ivory Vanguard 137	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:43:00 - [32] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works? when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP When you say crutches for noobs, surely you mean the two games of dumbed down pub matches before they are thrown into the proto-orgy of Dust?
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 1608	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:46:00 - [33] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug new players should be kept in the acadamy until they either get 2 million sp or press some sort of magic button when they feel like they are ready to take on some veterans. AND the the magic really hard to code buttons asks them "ARE YOU SURE" because if you press me, Vets are gonna push none pushable objects so far up your rectum that you will choke on them, so lemme ask this again ...ARE YOU SURE? ..smart people would then click No ...i am not ready for that kind of torture yet.... if people could learn to play this game for 71 days (not counting active sp, so it should be sooner if they activly play the game) in an academy mode AND then thrown to the wolfs, then maybe ...just maybe we would have had a playerbase. Right now they new guys gets thrown into a game with 4 Nascar Racing Tanks or 12 guys all in proto all que synched up like a boss trying to get a piece of them. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 769	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:50:00 - [34] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works? when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP It's funny when HAV stompers complain about Jihad Jeeps And ScR users complaints on RR/CR ... shame on you The NPE is a tricky one, a training Academy would work nicely as was mentioned Make a new player use all available MLT gear, before graduation Along with only being able to use MLT gear in Academy And possibly make it so SP cannot be used until after graduation That way guys aren't messing up Skills in their first 5 minutes Plasma Cannons works, any less drawbacks And I would have an Atomic Bomber on my shoulder
Ripley Riley 645	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:51:00 - [35] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferable, non refundable) Nix the 2mil starting SP and make the respec token expire after 60 days so you can't save it for a rainy day. Everything else is golden. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1752	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:54:00 - [36] - Quote Not sure what you mean. CCP made sure DUST is just as newbie friendly as EVE! I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1418	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:57:00 - [37] - Quote Faunher wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works? when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP When you say crutches for noobs, surely you mean the two games of dumbed down pub matches before they are thrown into the proto-orgy of Dust? which is even worse the scruberry academy is a gaint joke...yes ccp they will get the hang of how dust works in like what 1 match..i think it took me one to grad on my alt when i tested it. nono scrub academy is not the crutch everything that gave me that coughing fit would be the crutches i want even weapons..no bullet mag..no aa...and for new players to actually have to play in the battle academy for a bit before they can do others...vets can still pull them into fw pc..real pubs..they should stay in that academy for much longer..ive always said this from day 1 anyone who looks through the forums can find at least AT LEAST 2 posts where i ask ccp to give a more reasonable graduation measure for the battle academy and i know many of the vets stand by me in that opinion. A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1418	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:00:00 - [38] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works? when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP It's funny when HAV stompers complain about Jihad Jeeps And ScR users complaints on RR/CR ... shame on you The NPE is a tricky one, a training Academy would work nicely as was mentioned Make a new player use all available MLT gear, before graduation Along with only being able to use MLT gear in Academy And possibly make it so SP cannot be used until after graduation That way guys aren't messing up Skills in their first 5 minutes im notta tank spammer lol in order to be atank spammer u have to spam tank i dont i call one-3 maybe per match if i lose said 1 tank which i generally dont. also i dont call cheap mlt tanks unless there is a jihad on the field..you just wanna call me a tank spammer because u got on the wrong side of my blaster this morning. ps when i called that tank there were 4 rail tanks on the enemy side..the provoked me my teamate needed help they were overwhelming her as good asa tanker as she is..i will not sit by and let my squad mates get overwhelmed by multiple enemy tanks i will call my own and assist and rr is op and i am starting to think cr is as well nothing i stated in that is false the ability to instanty deal over 20k dmg with next to no financial risk is cheap and op. and i dont find it funny that these people qq about these things i think its completely logical after all who knows the pain of the rr more than a scr user or even worse a lr user like me... the rr is listed as a long range weapon yet it exhibits omnipotent ranged properties it is equally effective in cqc all the way to 110m and is widely proclaimed one of the worse fotm ccp has ever made. A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics
The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 235	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:10:00 - [39] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The alternative is to squad up with a Vet and have them que the squad for a non academe match. Automatically place Academy players into squads of four led by volunteer veteran "tutors", who are unable to deal lethal damage to the opposing noobs. Make sure voice is enabled by default, too!
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1222	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:18:00 - [40] - Quote What dust needs desperately for new players - Featured fits that can be downloaded by new players so they know what they need to skill into - A computer based fitting tool like EVE has so that players can plan out what they need as far as skills and whether a suit fit will work or not - A much better walk through which was already suggested by Bethhy What its like right now: Create a fit - Doesnt tell you how and only requires that you put a weapon on the suit Purchase a skill and train it to 1 - Doesnt have any type of system (like certificates) that lets you know what skills are the most important to start off with Fight a battle - Throws you out there against other new players that have no clue what they are doing After that it assumed that you are ready to face players that have been on the game for months??? Canari Elphus for CPM1

Leonid Tybalt Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 268	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:28:00 - [41] - Quote Faunher wrote: waistr wrote: Reality check give away free isk? SP? weapons? suits? how are you going to start that ? LetGÇÖs say you start today, what about the player that started, yesterday, last week, last month, last year? everyone will want it. Give them all the sp in the world they are still going to be slaughtered for months no way around that fact, we all were. Trying to make it easy for them at the start will not change anything, they will still go out into the real game and face a squad of WTF,( we all know how that will end), some will still quit some will stay. this is a hardcore shooter with consequences, itGÇÖs the reason I play I have 30 mil SP and still toss the controller across the room. Make joining a corporation mandatory part of character creation is the best solution, Im always willing to teach from my mistakes, lots of us are, I've made plenty This is a harsh game. . This is pretty much the same philosophy CCP has adopted, not necessarily in plan, but in action. Do you know what the consequence of that is? An unfriendly environment that does not encourage retention of new players, but rewards veterans who exploit the naivety and general lack of knowledge of these new players. Games that have no incoming players die. It's true that New Eden is tough as **** and can be a cruel mistress, but this newbie-phobia that CCP has seemed to adopt is killing Dust. This game has massive potential, but the basic fundamental aspects of it are so horribly flawed. Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from? They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did). Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta? Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off). Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure.
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 14	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:41:00 - [42] - Quote Academy can't really be redone until the militia weapons and suits are fully fleshed out - then you have grounds for zero isk and minimal sp rewards. There needs to be a few more 'free' starter fits but most of the militia gear is well priced and needs to stay as such. New players should be enabled to try out more than four weapons to quickly get a sense of what they like. You can make isk and sp in normal matches with the starter suits - so why give isk in Academy? Academy needs to be a learning experience, nothing more, with... -Militia gear ONLY allowed. -10,000 isk rewarded regardless of outcome, flat 1,000 sp reward for victory, 500 for defeat (makes it not worth farming compared to normal matches). isk reward serves purpose of allowing new players to buy other militia items not free (such as CR or a HMG, not currently provided but would be based on opening line) -Kills are not tallied for overall leaderboards. WP is tracked for the purposes of the match to help new players get a sense of their contribution, nothing more. Upon reaching a set amount of UNALLOCATED skill points (not WP, also,I don't remember where players start anymore), you can no longer enter Academy matches except... 1) As a squad leader leading a squad of three or more players below the unallocated total aforementioned (in other words, as an instructor). This enables corporate leadership, or just friends, to train each other in the Academy without introducing more than 4 veteran players into a match (four squads of four players each, 1 Vet to 3 Noobs) 2) Corporate Academy Match - This would be a feature that allows a corporation to make a private match that rewards zero sp or isk and, again, still only allows militia gear (severely minimizing isk lost but keeping the isk sink in place). Corporate members could form squads and choose team one or two and compete against each other for training purposes. Again, no kills tracked for leaderboards, no isk, no sp. Match leader can execute match whenever - does not have to be full. There will still be griefers who are skilled in real life as shooters that will makes alts for laughs - you can't prevent this and its just the way things are. The above mechanics though at least deincentivise griefers somewhat and buy new players more leeway with forced equality skill and gear wise. As for a NPE Mission Tutorial, I totally support this and it could be really awesome from the perspective of an MCC. 1) Start in your room on the MCC (as we normally see it) and get movement and sight controls sorted. 2) Proceed to armory to pick up that first AR and grenades 3) Proceed to bay and jump into battle (tutorial stops you mid-flight to show inertial dampener and explain how it works - notably its reusable if you get in a dropshop later) 4) Target practice and Hacking Practice -Other weapon types could have target practice mini-missions accessible from the the main menu that show off the strength and weaknesses of weapons in a short time after the main tutorial finishes. 5) Tutorial returns to merc room to explain SP and how the skill tree functions. Player allocates some starting sp to their Light Weapon skill to reduce CPU cost. 6) Tutorial explains fittings and how SP drives a lot of what and how things fit, citing the skill just trained and showing a 'before/after' of how that skill affected their AR and the overall suit's fitting. 7) Introduction to marketplace to buy (with starting allocated money) an LAV 8) Vehicle Tutorial starts from MCC Bay (to reinforce dropping from sky and basic deployment), then explains vehicle summoning, usage, target practice (by changing to turret in rear), and vehicle recall. -A dropship tutorial could be made separate to this 'Arc' of missions, accessible from main menu. Same for HAV. 9) Weapon and Suits Tutorials and where to find them in the main menu for more in depth understanding. Could even reward 10 militia variants on the first playthrough - like a 'starter pack' to use in Academy. 10) Other Resources and how to access tutorial again (always repeatable, no reward) such as corporations and joining them, the leaderboards, news and events, and chat functionality in particular joining the rookie channel, and the aforementioned 'other' tutorials for specific weapons and vehicles. 11) Final Main Tutorial: How to join matches in the Academy and Normal Matches, the types of matches and their parameters. -End Tutorial- It's a lot, and it could be interrupted and not continued by choice (just like in EVE) - but Dust IS a complex shooter, don't undersell it and take time to explain it. By building a really intuitive NPE and Tutorial System, the longevity of new players will drastically increase and, thus, the health of the DUST community with them. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1300	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:44:00 - [43] - Quote how is that different than any other game?
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 14	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:48:00 - [44] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from? They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did). Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta? Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off). Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure. This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
Leonid Tybalt Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 268	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:16:00 - [45] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from? They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did). Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta? Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off). Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure. This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot. My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"?
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 180	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:25:00 - [46] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: battle academy has to be at least 30,000 wp. Battle Academy has to be at least 20 million SP, since some genius decided DUST should use an antiquated single player stly skill system DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 180	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:30:00 - [47] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from? They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did). Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta? Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off). Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure. This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot. My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"? DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 4139	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:35:00 - [48] - Quote In that case, most new players are dumbasses. When I first joined, I kept my distance and snuck around, assisting when I felt it was safe. As I got more comfortable, I took more risks. And here I am today, as one of the few people with enough know-how to play a scout. I say leave the new players to be the everyday assault cannon-fodder that most players seem to want to play as. I am your scan error.
Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 19	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:39:00 - [49] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"? The playerbase in EvE is dwindling. Added Japanese local content = jap players to cover the losses in english and russian markets. China market is the only market growing for EvE (counted in the media totals, not in TQ totals) along with Japan (for now). If you hadn't noticed...DUST hasn't faired much better. So, no, I'm not worrying about nothing. Beyond worry, I'm more interested in making a better game - and a better game includes mechanics that draw more people to play so I can tear them up later on. Ever read the book Atlas Shrugged? Know why it hasn't happened? Super Smart, Amazingly Strong, Very Important people need their opposites to survive. You need scrubs to make the game worth playing or all you'll have is EVE: -Bitter Vets staring at each other in 10% TIDI because solo and gang play no longer exists because the idiots willing to waste the resources no longer exist...called 'having fun' -An overflowing hisec that accomplishes nothing but fuel the market for each other, rather than the deeper gameplay of Null and WH...resulting in a rotating door of new players enjopying just shallow PvE content, then leaving. In Dust terms - that's proto-stomping and minimal PC turnover. You think FW timers are bad now? Wait until all the pubs are gone. "Well then I'll have a REAL challenge" once every ******* hour. "Well the real hardcore people can get after it" - News Flash: we're a very tiny breed - a game of 5,000 doesn't warrant paying for servers, so the game shuts down. EvE is fortunate (for now) to have enough media influence to continue to draw more hardcore players... ...but consider that in all the places you can play EvE in the real world, a totally unique hardcore game I LOVE... ...only 50,000 play. Earth's population is...3 trillion if I recall (don't quote me, school was awhile back, hehe) Now compare that to a shooter game on ONE console that large tracks of the civilized world don't have (compared to PC, that everyone has). 50k just became 5k. We're not there yet - but people like you are sure as hell getting us there. I want DUST to be a hardcore game and not change - but I want more people playing it too. Why don't you? "Scrubs suck" isn't an answer. That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
Bax Zanith 48	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:40:00 - [50] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Aerius Corius wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from? They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did). Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta? Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off). Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure. This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot. My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"? Numbers are numbers, not facts. We may be seeing more accounts createt these days, but how many of those are really new players? How do you know there not alts? I havent seen the amount of players on at one time go up. Not even my friends who play dark souls would play dust. I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.

Aerius Corius FACTION WARFARE ARMY FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 19	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:44:00 - [51] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: In that case, most new players are dumbasses. When I first joined, I kept my distance and snuck around, assisting when I felt it was safe. As I got more comfortable, I took more risks. And here I am today, as one of the few people with enough know-how to play a scout. I say leave the new players to be the everyday assault cannon-fodder that most players seem to want to play as. This. I'm totally ok with dumbass new players - and who doesn't like assault fodder? But if we don't get them to stick around long enough to be somewhat ok and less dumbass players, it all goes to hell in a handbasket. The good stuff rises to the top (our vets and hardcores), but since when did a man drink the foam on the beer and leave the pisswater behind? Stop throwing out the beer! That guy you killed with 0% shields? Yeah, I sniped him - go team. Oh, you didn't know...hmm. *CCP: Display Assists!!!
Lanius Pulvis Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 155	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:07:00 - [52] - Quote The biggest problem isn't the steep learning curve. When I started playing I rather liked the fact it wasn't spoon fed to me. The problem is throwing players into general population while they're still trying to learn the ropes... I know alot of people don't like the idea, but optional Tiercide would mitigate this while also giving a good portion of the community what they've been asking for. Not new, just new to you.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4752	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:19:00 - [53] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. All you need is a few spreadsheets and the ability to read. Welcome to New Eden. Sarcasm? If it was, it made me chuckle If not, that's a stupid outlook. New players, new console players at that, have no idea what new eden is, and people shouldn't expect new blueberries to "HTFU". There's a reason why the player bases at any given moment continues to be 3-4k people from being as high as 6-9k. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1802	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:42:00 - [54] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug They shortened the academy because surprise surprise people were farming it with alts for isk, so just like so much else its ****** up a good thing because of people looking to exploit something.... That's going to happen regardless. But Making it so those who need this stuff to get accustomed to DUST don't get it for the sake of people exploiting it is idiotic. "I'm sorry but we can't give you the Kidney Transplant because some other jagoff took the kidney we gave him and sold it on the black market. Sorry." Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1366	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:30:00 - [55] - Quote SHANN da MAN wrote: Bethhy wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. I'd rather Let new characters Have the Weekly SP cap limits removed until 5 m Skill points. Get them hooked on that sweet persistent skill system drug early But really no player should leave the Battle academy without having a Quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 people get ammo from it. Put down a uplink and have 2 people spawn on it... Use a repair tool. Get 1 kill with a majority of the MLT weapon options.. Call in a MLT tank and get a kill with it. Call in a MLT dropship and stay in the air for 1 minute... Hack 10 objectives.. Hack 5 structures.. Destroy 1 structure... These are basic quests every New mercenary in DUST should have to do before leaving the Battle Academy... We need to TEACH people how to play DUST 514 first... You can hand all the tools you want to a player... Computer generated Tracking systems.. Better suits, Guns... More SP... But it won't improve much if they don't understand the game. You forgot about Squad Tasks ... maybe they can add a Command Academy from 15,000WP to 30,000WP, one step above Battle Academy, sort of advanced NUB's leading Raw NUB's Become Squad Leader Issue 1 of each type of Squad Order Call in Warbarge Strike There are obviously dozens more quests you can add to the Battle Academy... to give the game mode its self more depth... You can even reward these quests with Skill Point Lump sum bonuses... possibly some ISK, or some items to help them do another Quest. It comes down to DUST, NOT being obvious or a normal FPS... Players often don't understand nanohives until a month in, Uplinks... Even that you have to actually hack the Objective instead of getting there and standing around waiting for it to change hands... The more a new player gets to experience most aspects of combat that MLT items could facilitate like Tanks, Lavs, Forge guns, Snipers, Uplinks Spawning teams out of thin air...etc. Until a new player grasps these Concepts unique to DUST's gameplay and the advantages and disadvantages of that gameplay.. They will never learn how the game as a whole picture and have limited information to even improve their abilities...
Onesimus Tarsus 1236	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:47:00 - [56] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: The dark cloud wrote: "Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion. All you need is a few spreadsheets and the ability to read. Welcome to New Eden. You probably have to take powerful drugs to be that obtuse. I'm recruiting only the hardest hard-core-rers out there who are in here. cc2.27.13
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries 274	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:54:00 - [57] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Can't really relate to your sentiments. Mainly because im old enough to have experienced games that, back in the day, expected you to actually read through the instructions manuals to find out how the controls work and other necessary information. Options lets you find the controller scheme, and "Show Info" on every skill and piece of equipment let's you see the exact attributes involved. But "kids these days" are obviously too lazy to do such basic legwork. No, they want "training modes" and "tutorials"... Yes indeed. During the old days of games, you actually had to read a little tiny book or pamphlet. Some games, particularly old DOS games didn't really come with instructions at all. You pushed a key like F3 which told you what each key did and that was it. The rest you had to figure out yourself. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
waistr planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 115	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:09:00 - [58] - Quote Alternate Insano wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: battle academy has to be at least 30,000 wp. Battle Academy has to be at least 20 million SP, since some genius decided DUST should use an antiquated single player stly skill system They can stay in academy forever if they want... what do I, or you care, once they choose to leave and play a real game .... well its a dangerous world ....join a corp
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 12	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:13:00 - [59] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Increase starting SP to 2 million. Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000. Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable). Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable). Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable). Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. This isn't perfect, but f**k its good start. The game will only grow if new players stay. Providing rookies with a longer training grounds or some much needed ISK and a future re-spec are great ideas. Game balancing via matchmaking needs to happen but this is a good start to giving noobs a good foundation to grow. Everyone at one point created a skill tree with a few too many branches. If we limit one re-spec every 10m SP it would/could close the elite gap and give rookies the chance to take on vets. Maybe not the elite, but give the vets (15-20m SP) strong competition. - Cots (Edit) there are some great ideas in here to help the game grow.
Asher Night Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.02.26 04:29:00 - [60] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: CCP does not understand the core rules of shooters get used to this expect many more desgin fumbles I swear to god, we need to just spam this all over the forums, nonstop, everyday until CCP actually does some ****ing research into what makes an FPS fun to play.

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 364	Posted - 2014.02.26 04:41:00 - [61] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: danthrax martin wrote: I went through it today. Running around trying to help out noobs and theres a jackass vet taking out 40 new guys in a tank. He saw nothing wrong cause his alt was new? What the hell. I went around givining ar love taps, calling down lavs for berries, even dropping them for reds and running off. Are they siphoning chump change from alts or something? I just don't get some people. I guess all i can do is find him in game and fk him up? Usually bad players, "bored" people, griefers and ass holes make a new account and own the noobs. I guess they have no choice when they make an alt. Since there is no alternative to vets that want to make a new character and play without hurting the new players but that is probably like very few that care about new players. So called vets have no need of alts, except to farm isk to support a proto habit that they can use in pubs, if these are vets then **** em they are horrible.
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2014.02.26 04:44:00 - [62] - Quote Why so serious?
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 131	Posted - 2014.02.26 05:09:00 - [63] - Quote double post
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 131	Posted - 2014.02.26 05:10:00 - [64] - Quote maybe we should all make alts go to the Academy and go killing all the vet-alts abusing the Academy...
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 646	Posted - 2014.02.26 05:21:00 - [65] - Quote The Academy should have more requirements to graduate. Not simply "get X amount of warpoints" New players should be required (and shown how) to upgrade their electronics and power grid skills to level 3 as well as skilling up to level 3 in a suit, shields, armor, a weapon, and a piece of equipment. If they do all that and get X warpoints, then they can graduate and have at least a solid advanced fit to use in the full game. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3295	Posted - 2014.02.26 05:23:00 - [66] - Quote McFurious wrote: The Academy should have more requirements to graduate. Not simply "get X amount of warpoints" New players should be required (and shown how) to upgrade their electronics and power grid skills to level 3 as well as skilling up to level 3 in a suit, shields, armor, a weapon, and a piece of equipment. If they do all that and get X warpoints, then they can graduate and have at least a solid advanced fit to use in the full game. I thought new players already had something like that where they fit a dropsuit for SP. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries 275	Posted - 2014.02.26 05:37:00 - [67] - Quote Nestil wrote: maybe we should all make alts go to the Academy and go killing all the vet-alts abusing the Academy... As twitchy as my trigger finger is, I'd probably unfortunately end up taking out new players as well as academy vets. I can remember way back I went into academy on an alt just to stomp out all the new people because I remember it happening to me last summer. Felt good to get it out of my system, but then as I started gaining more SP and really good suits, I felt bad for the new guys and haven't done it since. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Leonid Tybalt Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 272	Posted - 2014.02.26 14:49:00 - [68] - Quote Aerius Corius wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"? The playerbase in EvE is dwindling. Added Japanese local content = jap players to cover the losses in english and russian markets. China market is the only market growing for EvE (counted in the media totals, not in TQ totals) along with Japan (for now). If you hadn't noticed...DUST hasn't faired much better. So, no, I'm not worrying about nothing. Beyond worry, I'm more interested in making a better game - and a better game includes mechanics that draw more people to play so I can tear them up later on. Ever read the book Atlas Shrugged? Know why it hasn't happened? Super Smart, Amazingly Strong, Very Important people need their opposites to survive. You need scrubs to make the game worth playing or all you'll have is EVE: -Bitter Vets staring at each other in 10% TIDI because solo and gang play no longer exists because the idiots willing to waste the resources no longer exist...called 'having fun' -An overflowing hisec that accomplishes nothing but fuel the market for each other, rather than the deeper gameplay of Null and WH...resulting in a rotating door of new players enjopying just shallow PvE content, then leaving. In Dust terms - that's proto-stomping and minimal PC turnover. You think FW timers are bad now? Wait until all the pubs are gone. "Well then I'll have a REAL challenge" once every ******* hour. "Well the real hardcore people can get after it" - News Flash: we're a very tiny breed - a game of 5,000 doesn't warrant paying for servers, so the game shuts down. EvE is fortunate (for now) to have enough media influence to continue to draw more hardcore players... ...but consider that in all the places you can play EvE in the real world, a totally unique hardcore game I LOVE... ...only 50,000 play. Earth's population is...3 trillion if I recall (don't quote me, school was awhile back, hehe) Now compare that to a shooter game on ONE console that large tracks of the civilized world don't have (compared to PC, that everyone has). 50k just became 5k. We're not there yet - but people like you are sure as hell getting us there. I want DUST to be a hardcore game and not change - but I want more people playing it too. Why don't you? "Scrubs suck" isn't an answer. Earth's population is roughly 7 billion, not 3 trillion. I don't want more players in general to play dust. I only want committed hardcore players to. And they find their way to the game every day, and they aren't being scared away by the status quo, but knows that they have to stick with it until it gets better. The rest I don't care about. Im fine with roughly 5000 dust players. It's crowded enough. Also the reason why the wait timer for FW is high isn't because of low players but thar FW is badly designed. Loyalty points aren't worth the risk, and the bugged friendly fire booting mechanics also serve to turn people off from it.


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