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Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1417
   |
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works?
when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who
i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP
A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular
Long Live the Empress
Burn the Heretics
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Faunher
Ivory Vanguard
137
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works?
when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who
i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP
When you say crutches for noobs, surely you mean the two games of dumbed down pub matches before they are thrown into the proto-orgy of Dust? |
Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
1608
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:The dark cloud wrote:"Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion.
New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug
new players should be kept in the acadamy until they either get 2 million sp or press some sort of magic button when they feel like they are ready to take on some veterans. AND the the magic really hard to code buttons asks them "ARE YOU SURE" because if you press me, Vets are gonna push none pushable objects so far up your rectum that you will choke on them, so lemme ask this again ...ARE YOU SURE? ..smart people would then click No ...i am not ready for that kind of torture yet....
if people could learn to play this game for 71 days (not counting active sp, so it should be sooner if they activly play the game) in an academy mode AND then thrown to the wolfs, then maybe ...just maybe we would have had a playerbase.
Right now they new guys gets thrown into a game with 4 Nascar Racing Tanks or 12 guys all in proto all que synched up like a boss trying to get a piece of them.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
769
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works?
when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who
i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP
It's funny when HAV stompers complain about Jihad Jeeps 
And ScR users complaints on RR/CR ... shame on you
The NPE is a tricky one, a training Academy would work nicely as was mentioned
Make a new player use all available MLT gear, before graduation
Along with only being able to use MLT gear in Academy
And possibly make it so SP cannot be used until after graduation
That way guys aren't messing up Skills in their first 5 minutes
Plasma Cannons works, any less drawbacks
And I would have an Atomic Bomber on my shoulder
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Ripley Riley
645
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Posted - 2014.02.25 19:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:Increase starting SP to 2 million.
Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000.
Give one respec token (non transferable, non refundable).
Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferable).
Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferable, non refundable)
Nix the 2mil starting SP and make the respec token expire after 60 days so you can't save it for a rainy day. Everything else is golden.
"I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1752
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Posted - 2014.02.25 19:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Not sure what you mean.
CCP made sure DUST is just as newbie friendly as EVE!
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1418
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Posted - 2014.02.25 19:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Faunher wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works?
when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who
i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP When you say crutches for noobs, surely you mean the two games of dumbed down pub matches before they are thrown into the proto-orgy of Dust?
which is even worse the scruberry academy is a gaint joke...yes ccp they will get the hang of how dust works in like what 1 match..i think it took me one to grad on my alt when i tested it.
nono scrub academy is not the crutch everything that gave me that coughing fit would be the crutches
i want even weapons..no bullet mag..no aa...and for new players to actually have to play in the battle academy for a bit before they can do others...vets can still pull them into fw pc..real pubs..they should stay in that academy for much longer..ive always said this from day 1 anyone who looks through the forums can find at least AT LEAST 2 posts where i ask ccp to give a more reasonable graduation measure for the battle academy
and i know many of the vets stand by me in that opinion.
A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular
Long Live the Empress
Burn the Heretics
|
Mortedeamor
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1418
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:why do blue dots not come into this game with basic knowledge of how an fps works?
when i played mag i was very irritated it had a tutorial who needs that crap? idiots who shouldn't be playing fps thats who
i think ccp spends enough time building crutches for nubs..cough rr cough cr cough cheap effective mlt tanks..cough aa ..cough bullet magnetism cough the jihad lav...damn think i am getting a cold ..must be this new virus thats going aRound what was it called....oh...yeah CCP It's funny when HAV stompers complain about Jihad Jeeps And ScR users complaints on RR/CR ... shame on you The NPE is a tricky one, a training Academy would work nicely as was mentioned Make a new player use all available MLT gear, before graduation Along with only being able to use MLT gear in Academy And possibly make it so SP cannot be used until after graduation That way guys aren't messing up Skills in their first 5 minutes
im notta tank spammer lol
in order to be atank spammer u have to spam tank i dont i call one-3 maybe per match if i lose said 1 tank which i generally dont. also i dont call cheap mlt tanks unless there is a jihad on the field..you just wanna call me a tank spammer because u got on the wrong side of my blaster this morning. ps when i called that tank there were 4 rail tanks on the enemy side..the provoked me
my teamate needed help they were overwhelming her as good asa tanker as she is..i will not sit by and let my squad mates get overwhelmed by multiple enemy tanks i will call my own and assist
and rr is op and i am starting to think cr is as well nothing i stated in that is false the ability to instanty deal over 20k dmg with next to no financial risk is cheap and op.
and i dont find it funny that these people qq about these things i think its completely logical after all who knows the pain of the rr more than a scr user or even worse a lr user like me...
the rr is listed as a long range weapon yet it exhibits omnipotent ranged properties it is equally effective in cqc all the way to 110m and is widely proclaimed one of the worse fotm ccp has ever made.
A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular
Long Live the Empress
Burn the Heretics
|
The Eristic
Sad Panda Solutions
235
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:The alternative is to squad up with a Vet and have them que the squad for a non academe match.
Automatically place Academy players into squads of four led by volunteer veteran "tutors", who are unable to deal lethal damage to the opposing noobs. Make sure voice is enabled by default, too! |
Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1222
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
What dust needs desperately for new players
- Featured fits that can be downloaded by new players so they know what they need to skill into
- A computer based fitting tool like EVE has so that players can plan out what they need as far as skills and whether a suit fit will work or not
- A much better walk through which was already suggested by Bethhy
What its like right now:
Create a fit - Doesnt tell you how and only requires that you put a weapon on the suit
Purchase a skill and train it to 1 - Doesnt have any type of system (like certificates) that lets you know what skills are the most important to start off with
Fight a battle - Throws you out there against other new players that have no clue what they are doing
After that it assumed that you are ready to face players that have been on the game for months???
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Leonid Tybalt
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
268
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Faunher wrote:waistr wrote:Reality check
give away free isk? SP? weapons? suits?
how are you going to start that ?
LetGÇÖs say you start today, what about the player that started, yesterday, last week, last month, last year? everyone will want it.
Give them all the sp in the world they are still going to be slaughtered for months no way around that fact, we all were.
Trying to make it easy for them at the start will not change anything, they will still go out into the real game and face a squad of
WTF,( we all know how that will end), some will still quit some will stay.
this is a hardcore shooter with consequences, itGÇÖs the reason I play
I have 30 mil SP and still toss the controller across the room.
Make joining a corporation mandatory part of character creation is the best solution, Im always willing to teach from my mistakes,
lots of us are, I've made plenty
This is a harsh game.
.
This is pretty much the same philosophy CCP has adopted, not necessarily in plan, but in action. Do you know what the consequence of that is? An unfriendly environment that does not encourage retention of new players, but rewards veterans who exploit the naivety and general lack of knowledge of these new players. Games that have no incoming players die. It's true that New Eden is tough as **** and can be a cruel mistress, but this newbie-phobia that CCP has seemed to adopt is killing Dust. This game has massive potential, but the basic fundamental aspects of it are so horribly flawed.
Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from?
They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did).
Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta?
Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off).
Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure.
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Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY
FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
14
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Posted - 2014.02.25 20:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Academy can't really be redone until the militia weapons and suits are fully fleshed out - then you have grounds for zero isk and minimal sp rewards. There needs to be a few more 'free' starter fits but most of the militia gear is well priced and needs to stay as such. New players should be enabled to try out more than four weapons to quickly get a sense of what they like.
You can make isk and sp in normal matches with the starter suits - so why give isk in Academy? Academy needs to be a learning experience, nothing more, with...
-Militia gear ONLY allowed.
-10,000 isk rewarded regardless of outcome, flat 1,000 sp reward for victory, 500 for defeat (makes it not worth farming compared to normal matches). isk reward serves purpose of allowing new players to buy other militia items not free (such as CR or a HMG, not currently provided but would be based on opening line)
-Kills are not tallied for overall leaderboards. WP is tracked for the purposes of the match to help new players get a sense of their contribution, nothing more.
Upon reaching a set amount of UNALLOCATED skill points (not WP, also,I don't remember where players start anymore), you can no longer enter Academy matches except...
1) As a squad leader leading a squad of three or more players below the unallocated total aforementioned (in other words, as an instructor). This enables corporate leadership, or just friends, to train each other in the Academy without introducing more than 4 veteran players into a match (four squads of four players each, 1 Vet to 3 Noobs)
2) Corporate Academy Match - This would be a feature that allows a corporation to make a private match that rewards zero sp or isk and, again, still only allows militia gear (severely minimizing isk lost but keeping the isk sink in place). Corporate members could form squads and choose team one or two and compete against each other for training purposes. Again, no kills tracked for leaderboards, no isk, no sp. Match leader can execute match whenever - does not have to be full.
There will still be griefers who are skilled in real life as shooters that will makes alts for laughs - you can't prevent this and its just the way things are. The above mechanics though at least deincentivise griefers somewhat and buy new players more leeway with forced equality skill and gear wise.
As for a NPE Mission Tutorial, I totally support this and it could be really awesome from the perspective of an MCC.
1) Start in your room on the MCC (as we normally see it) and get movement and sight controls sorted.
2) Proceed to armory to pick up that first AR and grenades
3) Proceed to bay and jump into battle (tutorial stops you mid-flight to show inertial dampener and explain how it works - notably its reusable if you get in a dropshop later)
4) Target practice and Hacking Practice
-Other weapon types could have target practice mini-missions accessible from the the main menu that show off the strength and weaknesses of weapons in a short time after the main tutorial finishes.
5) Tutorial returns to merc room to explain SP and how the skill tree functions. Player allocates some starting sp to their Light Weapon skill to reduce CPU cost.
6) Tutorial explains fittings and how SP drives a lot of what and how things fit, citing the skill just trained and showing a 'before/after' of how that skill affected their AR and the overall suit's fitting.
7) Introduction to marketplace to buy (with starting allocated money) an LAV
8) Vehicle Tutorial starts from MCC Bay (to reinforce dropping from sky and basic deployment), then explains vehicle summoning, usage, target practice (by changing to turret in rear), and vehicle recall.
-A dropship tutorial could be made separate to this 'Arc' of missions, accessible from main menu. Same for HAV.
9) Weapon and Suits Tutorials and where to find them in the main menu for more in depth understanding. Could even reward 10 militia variants on the first playthrough - like a 'starter pack' to use in Academy.
10) Other Resources and how to access tutorial again (always repeatable, no reward) such as corporations and joining them, the leaderboards, news and events, and chat functionality in particular joining the rookie channel, and the aforementioned 'other' tutorials for specific weapons and vehicles.
11) Final Main Tutorial: How to join matches in the Academy and Normal Matches, the types of matches and their parameters.
-End Tutorial-
It's a lot, and it could be interrupted and not continued by choice (just like in EVE) - but Dust IS a complex shooter, don't undersell it and take time to explain it. By building a really intuitive NPE and Tutorial System, the longevity of new players will drastically increase and, thus, the health of the DUST community with them.
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1300
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
how is that different than any other game? |
Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY
FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:
Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from?
They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did).
Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta?
Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off).
Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure.
This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly.
You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it.
Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot.
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
|
Leonid Tybalt
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aerius Corius wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:
Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from?
They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did).
Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta?
Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off).
Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure.
This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot.
My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness".
But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it.
You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"?  |
Alternate Insano
SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:battle academy has to be at least 30,000 wp.
Battle Academy has to be at least 20 million SP, since some genius decided DUST should use an antiquated single player stly skill system
DUST 514 Super Scrub
Level 262 Forum Troll
Play, or play not. There is no balance.
|
Alternate Insano
SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Aerius Corius wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:
Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from?
They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did).
Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta?
Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off).
Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure.
This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot. My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"?
DUST 514 Super Scrub
Level 262 Forum Troll
Play, or play not. There is no balance.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
4139
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
In that case, most new players are dumbasses.
When I first joined, I kept my distance and snuck around, assisting when I felt it was safe.
As I got more comfortable, I took more risks.
And here I am today, as one of the few people with enough know-how to play a scout.
I say leave the new players to be the everyday assault cannon-fodder that most players seem to want to play as.
I am your scan error.
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Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY
FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
19
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"?
The playerbase in EvE is dwindling. Added Japanese local content = jap players to cover the losses in english and russian markets. China market is the only market growing for EvE (counted in the media totals, not in TQ totals) along with Japan (for now). If you hadn't noticed...DUST hasn't faired much better.
So, no, I'm not worrying about nothing. Beyond worry, I'm more interested in making a better game - and a better game includes mechanics that draw more people to play so I can tear them up later on.
Ever read the book Atlas Shrugged? Know why it hasn't happened? Super Smart, Amazingly Strong, Very Important people need their opposites to survive. You need scrubs to make the game worth playing or all you'll have is EVE:
-Bitter Vets staring at each other in 10% TIDI because solo and gang play no longer exists because the idiots willing to waste the resources no longer exist...called 'having fun'
-An overflowing hisec that accomplishes nothing but fuel the market for each other, rather than the deeper gameplay of Null and WH...resulting in a rotating door of new players enjopying just shallow PvE content, then leaving.
In Dust terms - that's proto-stomping and minimal PC turnover. You think FW timers are bad now? Wait until all the pubs are gone. "Well then I'll have a REAL challenge" once every ******* hour. "Well the real hardcore people can get after it" - News Flash: we're a very tiny breed - a game of 5,000 doesn't warrant paying for servers, so the game shuts down. EvE is fortunate (for now) to have enough media influence to continue to draw more hardcore players...
...but consider that in all the places you can play EvE in the real world, a totally unique hardcore game I LOVE...
...only 50,000 play. Earth's population is...3 trillion if I recall (don't quote me, school was awhile back, hehe)
Now compare that to a shooter game on ONE console that large tracks of the civilized world don't have (compared to PC, that everyone has). 50k just became 5k. We're not there yet - but people like you are sure as hell getting us there. I want DUST to be a hardcore game and not change - but I want more people playing it too. Why don't you?
"Scrubs suck" isn't an answer.
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
|
Bax Zanith
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 21:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Aerius Corius wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:
Okay mr doomsday preacher, tell me: if this game is so bad at "new player retention", where did all these vets in the game (that you yourself spoke of) come from?
They didn't get a "tutorial" either. They were left to find things out for themselves (i know I sure as hell did).
Did they just magically appear with millions of lifetime skillpoints during open beta?
Evidently the game manages to cater to some people that have a taste for this type of harsh game enviroment (just like Eve). And more people interested in hardcore will eventually follow (while scrub crybabies will be scared off).
Trying to cater to scrub crybabies will, if anything, kill this game for sure.
This mentality is not healthy. The vets you see, like you and me, are accustomed to CCP's development style or are just hardnosed about quitting a game quickly. You can't seriously be against new players being given a chance to acclimate to that hardcore environment - by enabling them the chance to understand that suit loss is inevitable and costs, the game goes from appearing unfair to simply hardcore...where we understand it. Perception IS Reality - if they percieve the game is Unfair, it is, therefore they quit and the game dwindles. If we can change that perception to Harcore, not unfair, we'll still lose new players that don't like the style...but we'll retain just as many who like it. More importantly, the world at large will not see the game as unfair and full of griefers (it isn't) but simply made of a tougher style of gamers. There are many other hardcore gamers out there NOT playing DUST because they only see the unfair mechanics in the beginning and don't give the game a shot. My mentality is perfectly healthy. I had no ******* idea about ccp's development style when I first started playing. I had to find out the hard way like everybody else, and feel all that "unfairness". But im still here right? That doesn't make me (or you) "special" it just proves my point that there are players that enjoy it. You're worrying about nothing. Scrub crybabies and quitters are to be expected. People said the exact same things about Eve in the beginning years ago. You think the playerbase of Eve is "dwindling"?
Numbers are numbers, not facts. We may be seeing more accounts createt these days, but how many of those are really new players? How do you know there not alts? I havent seen the amount of players on at one time go up. Not even my friends who play dark souls would play dust.
I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
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Aerius Corius
FACTION WARFARE ARMY
FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
19
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Posted - 2014.02.25 21:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:In that case, most new players are dumbasses.
When I first joined, I kept my distance and snuck around, assisting when I felt it was safe.
As I got more comfortable, I took more risks.
And here I am today, as one of the few people with enough know-how to play a scout.
I say leave the new players to be the everyday assault cannon-fodder that most players seem to want to play as.
This. I'm totally ok with dumbass new players - and who doesn't like assault fodder? But if we don't get them to stick around long enough to be somewhat ok and less dumbass players, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
The good stuff rises to the top (our vets and hardcores), but since when did a man drink the foam on the beer and leave the pisswater behind? Stop throwing out the beer!
That guy you killed with 0% shields?
Yeah, I sniped him - go team.
Oh, you didn't know...hmm.
*CCP: Display Assists!!!
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Lanius Pulvis
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
155
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
The biggest problem isn't the steep learning curve. When I started playing I rather liked the fact it wasn't spoon fed to me.
The problem is throwing players into general population while they're still trying to learn the ropes... I know alot of people don't like the idea, but optional Tiercide would mitigate this while also giving a good portion of the community what they've been asking for.
Not new, just new to you.
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
4752
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:The dark cloud wrote:"Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion.
All you need is a few spreadsheets and the ability to read. Welcome to New Eden.
Sarcasm? If it was, it made me chuckle 
If not, that's a stupid outlook. New players, new console players at that, have no idea what new eden is, and people shouldn't expect new blueberries to "HTFU".
There's a reason why the player bases at any given moment continues to be 3-4k people from being as high as 6-9k.
( ._.) <('.'<)
"There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
1802
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Posted - 2014.02.25 22:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:The dark cloud wrote:"Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion.
New players used to be in the "academy" longer. They decided 2 matches or whatever was enough at some point. /shrug They shortened the academy because surprise surprise people were farming it with alts for isk, so just like so much else its ****** up a good thing because of people looking to exploit something....
That's going to happen regardless.
But Making it so those who need this stuff to get accustomed to DUST don't get it for the sake of people exploiting it is idiotic.
"I'm sorry but we can't give you the Kidney Transplant because some other jagoff took the kidney we gave him and sold it on the black market. Sorry."
Looking for a Interesting Character Name?
Why Not Zoidberg?
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1366
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:Bethhy wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Increase starting SP to 2 million.
Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000.
Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable).
Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable).
Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable).
Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though. I'd rather Let new characters Have the Weekly SP cap limits removed until 5 m Skill points. Get them hooked on that sweet persistent skill system drug early  But really no player should leave the Battle academy without having a Quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 people get ammo from it. Put down a uplink and have 2 people spawn on it... Use a repair tool. Get 1 kill with a majority of the MLT weapon options.. Call in a MLT tank and get a kill with it. Call in a MLT dropship and stay in the air for 1 minute... Hack 10 objectives.. Hack 5 structures.. Destroy 1 structure... These are basic quests every New mercenary in DUST should have to do before leaving the Battle Academy... We need to TEACH people how to play DUST 514 first... You can hand all the tools you want to a player... Computer generated Tracking systems.. Better suits, Guns... More SP... But it won't improve much if they don't understand the game. You forgot about Squad Tasks ... maybe they can add a Command Academy from 15,000WP to 30,000WP, one step above Battle Academy, sort of advanced NUB's leading Raw NUB's Become Squad Leader Issue 1 of each type of Squad Order Call in Warbarge Strike
There are obviously dozens more quests you can add to the Battle Academy... to give the game mode its self more depth...
You can even reward these quests with Skill Point Lump sum bonuses... possibly some ISK, or some items to help them do another Quest.
It comes down to DUST, NOT being obvious or a normal FPS... Players often don't understand nanohives until a month in, Uplinks... Even that you have to actually hack the Objective instead of getting there and standing around waiting for it to change hands...
The more a new player gets to experience most aspects of combat that MLT items could facilitate like Tanks, Lavs, Forge guns, Snipers, Uplinks Spawning teams out of thin air...etc. Until a new player grasps these Concepts unique to DUST's gameplay and the advantages and disadvantages of that gameplay.. They will never learn how the game as a whole picture and have limited information to even improve their abilities... |
Onesimus Tarsus
1236
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:The dark cloud wrote:"Hello there im your drill sergant here is your gun and there is the door to the battlefield". Now good luck soldier (kicks the rookie out of the door and quickly closes it). The rookie runs around for 10 secs and gets murdered instantly by vets who know every aspect of the game. Why does Dust514 doesnt has a training lvl like M.A.G. had? On mag you could do the training which told you the essential basics like throwing grenades, shoting, driving a vehicle, hacking a objective and repairing vehicles etc. Dust has nothing that explains the game mechanics which is really horrible. On the battlefinder once you made a new char there should be a "training session" highlighted which awards the newbie with maybe some equipment upon completion.
All you need is a few spreadsheets and the ability to read. Welcome to New Eden.
You probably have to take powerful drugs to be that obtuse.
I'm recruiting only the hardest hard-core-rers out there who are in here.
cc2.27.13
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries
274
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Posted - 2014.02.26 00:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:Can't really relate to your sentiments. Mainly because im old enough to have experienced games that, back in the day, expected you to actually read through the instructions manuals to find out how the controls work and other necessary information.
Options lets you find the controller scheme, and "Show Info" on every skill and piece of equipment let's you see the exact attributes involved.
But "kids these days" are obviously too lazy to do such basic legwork. No, they want "training modes" and "tutorials"...
Yes indeed. During the old days of games, you actually had to read a little tiny book or pamphlet. Some games, particularly old DOS games didn't really come with instructions at all. You pushed a key like F3 which told you what each key did and that was it. The rest you had to figure out yourself.
It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
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waistr
planetary retaliation organisation
ACME Holding Conglomerate
115
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Posted - 2014.02.26 01:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
Alternate Insano wrote:Kalante Schiffer wrote:battle academy has to be at least 30,000 wp. Battle Academy has to be at least 20 million SP, since some genius decided DUST should use an antiquated single player stly skill system
They can stay in academy forever if they want... what do I, or you care, once they choose to leave and play a real game .... well its a dangerous world ....join a corp |
Cotsy8
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
12
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Posted - 2014.02.26 01:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:Increase starting SP to 2 million.
Increase Academy to 15,000 WP with an option to keep queuing in it until 30,000.
Give one respec token (non transferrable, non refundable).
Give 1 million starting ISK (non transferrable).
Give 1 3-day active booster (non transferrable, non refundable).
Those are just some basic changes that would be both easy to apply (except maybe the respec token) and would make life a lot better for newer players. Until they get a bigger player-base and matchmaking is quite a bit better, it's always going to be rough for new players, though.
This isn't perfect, but f**k its good start. The game will only grow if new players stay. Providing rookies with a longer training grounds or some much needed ISK and a future re-spec are great ideas.
Game balancing via matchmaking needs to happen but this is a good start to giving noobs a good foundation to grow.
Everyone at one point created a skill tree with a few too many branches. If we limit one re-spec every 10m SP it would/could close the elite gap and give rookies the chance to take on vets. Maybe not the elite, but give the vets (15-20m SP) strong competition.
- Cots
(Edit) there are some great ideas in here to help the game grow. |
Asher Night
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
474
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Posted - 2014.02.26 04:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:CCP does not understand the core rules of shooters get used to this expect many more desgin fumbles
I swear to god, we need to just spam this all over the forums, nonstop, everyday until CCP actually does some ****ing research into what makes an FPS fun to play. |
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