Because the Gallente are supposed to be regeneration armor tankers vs the amarr buffer tankers. So in theory the Gallente would mix plates with armor reps, resulting in less health but can regenerate, while the Amarr would just stack all plates for a massive buffer tank.

Because the Gallente are supposed to be regeneration armor tankers vs the amarr buffer tankers. So in theory the Gallente would mix plates with armor reps, resulting in less health but can regenerate, while the Amarr would just stack all plates for a massive buffer tank.

Am I the only person that plays DUST that feels like any kind of armor HP/s is weird and doesn't belong?

Am I the only person that plays DUST that feels like any kind of armor HP/s is weird and doesn't belong?

At proto, the Amarr loses 4 PG in exchange for 10 CPU in comparison to the Gal...

Quite possibly.


Just saying, PG and CPU cannot be compared on a point-by-point basis. I don't know what a reasonable 'exchange rate' might be off the top of my head, but PG uses go up slower than CPU uses, and traditionally certain type of weapons and modules use more CPU than PG or vice versa. Like shielding being heavy on CPU compared to armour, or missiles being heavy on CPU compared to lasers, which is heavier on PG.

Quite possibly.


Just saying, PG and CPU cannot be compared on a point-by-point basis. I don't know what a reasonable 'exchange rate' might be off the top of my head, but PG uses go up slower than CPU uses, and traditionally certain type of weapons and modules use more CPU than PG or vice versa. Like shielding being heavy on CPU compared to armour, or missiles being heavy on CPU compared to lasers, which is heavier on PG.

Racially it is supposed to be designed that way, but the "philosophy" only makes sense if the Amarr scout got a higher benefit in terms of base armor, maybe 60 points instead of 40.

tl;dr:
GalScout:
Built in STD range enhancer, ADV repper, PRO dampener, higher base speed
AmarrScout:
+30EHP, built in STD cardiac regulator

With identical slot layouts, that does not look balanced.

Give it the originally proposed cloaking bonus. There needs to be some reason to choose it over the other racial scouts. It doesn't increase the duration of cloak, but allows for less downtime. Of all racial scouts, the Amarr will be the most dependent (by far) on the cloak. It's slow and doesn't get any scanning bonuses like the others have.

If the community is adamant about scouts not getting cloak bonuses (which is a stupid restriction IMO), then a very distant 2nd option should be a bonus to scrambler pistol clip size. Some have argued that this is a redundant bonus, but the current bonus allows the ScP to be an effective sidearm/finisher, this additional bonus would allow it to be more effective as a primary weapon without reducing the TTK and making it OP.

It should also get a speed buff to be 0.1 m/s faster than the Minmatar assault. The slowest scout should be faster (if only marginally) than the fastest assault.

Because the Gallente are supposed to be regeneration armor tankers vs the amarr buffer tankers. So in theory the Gallente would mix plates with armor reps, resulting in less health but can regenerate, while the Amarr would just stack all plates for a massive buffer tank.

Quite possibly.


Just saying, PG and CPU cannot be compared on a point-by-point basis. I don't know what a reasonable 'exchange rate' might be off the top of my head, but PG uses go up slower than CPU uses, and traditionally certain type of weapons and modules use more CPU than PG or vice versa. Like shielding being heavy on CPU compared to armour, or missiles being heavy on CPU compared to lasers, which is heavier on PG.

You're assuming that the Amarr Scout is a light frame....

I... don't get it.

It's a scout with 10 less armor than most medium frames start with

Scouts have 2 strengths: Sensors and Speed.
The Gallente scout will be Sensory strong and Regenerative strong (fastest self repping abilities)
The Caldari scout will be Sensory strong and shield regenerative strong (2 second shield delay!)
The Minmatar is like bat out of hell speed: hacking and sprint
But the Amarr? Stamina Regen abilities and tanking?

See the Amarr Scout does not fit contextually with the others, in fact since beta we were debating on how an Amarr scout would even work. But you see I understand now.

Imagine you have a squad of medium frames with Cloaks and and really strong endurance qualities....that's a squad of Amarr Scouts. No one is going to be able to play them like speed freak scouts, so you have to play it like undetectable medium frames, considering you have 230 HP naturally and 287.5 with max armor and shield skills.

The Amarr scout is practically the stealthiest medium frame you can have, and with the best scan stats too. You'd use the Amarr scout for the same reason you'd use the Amarr medium frame, HP for the long haul + Stamina to match.

interesting way of looking at amarr scout. i would say the gallente will have more hp, because of the fact it can get away with less damps. combined with more speed, the amarr scout's big advantage is more time in sprint. why not use a minmatar medium?

My view of the Amarr scout practically relies on the cloak, seeing as how scout bonuses apply to them.

I wouldn't use a Minmatar Assault because:
Major Profile Gap
No Cloak Bonus

Other than that the Amarr scout is just a wimpy medium frame with good endurance.

It's a scout with 10 less armor than most medium frames start with

Scouts have 2 strengths: Sensors and Speed.
The Gallente scout will be Sensory strong and Regenerative strong (fastest self repping abilities)
The Caldari scout will be Sensory strong and shield regenerative strong (2 second shield delay!)
The Minmatar is like bat out of hell speed: hacking and sprint
But the Amarr? Stamina Regen abilities and tanking?

See the Amarr Scout does not fit contextually with the others, in fact since beta we were debating on how an Amarr scout would even work. But you see I understand now.

Imagine you have a squad of medium frames with Cloaks and and really strong endurance qualities....that's a squad of Amarr Scouts. No one is going to be able to play them like speed freak scouts, so you have to play it like undetectable medium frames, considering you have 230 HP naturally and 287.5 with max armor and shield skills.

The Amarr scout is practically the stealthiest medium frame you can have, and with the best scan stats too. You'd use the Amarr scout for the same reason you'd use the Amarr medium frame, HP for the long haul + Stamina to match.

That's a cool way of looking at the Amarr scout, but it seems to me that it can still be easily beaten on EHP by the Gal Scout due to the fact that the Amarr scout will need a repper, while the Gal scout can get by on the built-in one. A built in advanced repper versus half of a basic plate in base EHP seems like an obvious armor tanking advantage for the Gal scout. The Gal scout can further surpass the Amarr in EHP if the Amarr wants to be dampened or improve its scan range. The Amarr scout still seems blatantly underpowered.

That's a cool way of looking at the Amarr scout, but it seems to me that it can still be easily beaten on EHP by the Gal Scout due to the fact that the Amarr scout will need a repper, while the Gal scout can get by on the built-in one. A built in advanced repper versus half of a basic plate in base EHP seems like an obvious armor tanking advantage for the Gal scout. The Gal scout can further surpass the Amarr in EHP if the Amarr wants to be dampened or improve its scan range. The Amarr scout still seems blatantly underpowered.

But see what you're trying to accomplish is the same fit but across two different suits. Of course if you have the same exact fit among two different suits the suit with the innate armor reps is going to win, no matter what fit.

You gotta build the Amarr Scout differently, you gotta build it up with plates and a cloak, be the invisible wall. The Gallente Scout (like all gallente) are designed around Armor Rep tanking. I will, in 1.8, stack two reps to most of my fits with the innate 3 hp/s. Why? Because my g.K0 with 4 complex repair modules is my favorite.

If you prioritize the ability to recoup HP then the Amarr scout is not for you. If you want the strength of an elephant in the size of an Ant go Amarr scout.

If I was to use an Amarr scout, I would (must) fit a cloak, stack 3 plates and a green bottle. I would cloak, move into position, uncloak and gain the surprise abilities of a scout in the HP of medium frame. If you want stealth and high HP you'd go Amarr.

If there's a repair tool in squad why bother with a repair module. Amarr fight with force not lengthy engagements, why do you think their weapons all have high DPS?

Because the Gallente are supposed to be regeneration armor tankers vs the amarr buffer tankers. So in theory the Gallente would mix plates with armor reps, resulting in less health but can regenerate, while the Amarr would just stack all plates for a massive buffer tank.

Give it the originally proposed cloaking bonus. There needs to be some reason to choose it over the other racial scouts. It doesn't increase the duration of cloak, but allows for less downtime. Of all racial scouts, the Amarr will be the most dependent (by far) on the cloak. It's slow and doesn't get any scanning bonuses like the others have.

If the community is adamant about scouts not getting cloak bonuses (which is a stupid restriction IMO), then a very distant 2nd option should be a bonus to scrambler pistol clip size. Some have argued that this is a redundant bonus, but the current bonus allows the ScP to be an effective sidearm/finisher, this additional bonus would allow it to be more effective as a primary weapon without reducing the TTK and making it OP.

It should also get a speed buff to be 0.1 m/s faster than the Minmatar assault. The slowest scout should be faster (if only marginally) than the fastest assault.