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Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1065
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Posted - 2014.02.24 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why does the Gal scout receive 3 hp/s inherent armor rep, while the more lightly shielded, heavily armored Amarr scout receives no inherent reps? |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1066
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:Because the Gallente are supposed to be regeneration armor tankers vs the amarr buffer tankers. So in theory the Gallente would mix plates with armor reps, resulting in less health but can regenerate, while the Amarr would just stack all plates for a massive buffer tank.
Check the math I edited in- Gal can get just as much buffer and have a speed bonus over the Amarr to compensate for plates, while having that built in advanced repper. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1071
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Posted - 2014.02.24 19:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote:Am I the only person that plays DUST that feels like any kind of armor HP/s is weird and doesn't belong? Quite possibly. Awry Barux wrote: At proto, the Amarr loses 4 PG in exchange for 10 CPU in comparison to the Gal... Just saying, PG and CPU cannot be compared on a point-by-point basis. I don't know what a reasonable 'exchange rate' might be off the top of my head, but PG uses go up slower than CPU uses, and traditionally certain type of weapons and modules use more CPU than PG or vice versa. Like shielding being heavy on CPU compared to armour, or missiles being heavy on CPU compared to lasers, which is heavier on PG.
Personally, I find it much easier to come up with a bit of extra CPU when doing my fittings than extra PG. Additionally, CPU enhancers do not consume PG, while PG enhancers consume CPU. Basically, I would happily trade 10 CPU for 4 PG, especially for an armor-tanked suit (since plates, especially ferroscales, are very PG heavy). |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1073
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Racially it is supposed to be designed that way, but the "philosophy" only makes sense if the Amarr scout got a higher benefit in terms of base armor, maybe 60 points instead of 40.
Even that would be underpowered, though. A GalScout can still make up that difference with just a single basic plate while still being faster even after the plate penalty. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1076
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Give it the originally proposed cloaking bonus. There needs to be some reason to choose it over the other racial scouts. It doesn't increase the duration of cloak, but allows for less downtime. Of all racial scouts, the Amarr will be the most dependent (by far) on the cloak. It's slow and doesn't get any scanning bonuses like the others have.
If the community is adamant about scouts not getting cloak bonuses (which is a stupid restriction IMO), then a very distant 2nd option should be a bonus to scrambler pistol clip size. Some have argued that this is a redundant bonus, but the current bonus allows the ScP to be an effective sidearm/finisher, this additional bonus would allow it to be more effective as a primary weapon without reducing the TTK and making it OP.
It should also get a speed buff to be 0.1 m/s faster than the Minmatar assault. The slowest scout should be faster (if only marginally) than the fastest assault.
I can deal with the low speed, that's OK, but yes- the low speed needs to come with something nice, not 30EHP and a basic cardiac reg. The cloak bonus would be perfect. If it's a SCP clip size bonus I would hope for an ammo reserve bonus too, because they already chew through ammo extremely quickly, which would all but force nanohives for self-sufficiency. I would also accept a large fitting bonus, say 5% or 10% per level, to laser weaponry, to allow the comfortable fitting of a good SCR and SCP on the scout suit without having to compromise on modules/equipment. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1076
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:You're assuming that the Amarr Scout is a light frame....
I... don't get it. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1078
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:You're assuming that the Amarr Scout is a light frame.... I... don't get it. It's a scout with 10 less armor than most medium frames start with Scouts have 2 strengths: Sensors and Speed. The Gallente scout will be Sensory strong and Regenerative strong (fastest self repping abilities) The Caldari scout will be Sensory strong and shield regenerative strong (2 second shield delay!) The Minmatar is like bat out of hell speed: hacking and sprint But the Amarr? Stamina Regen abilities and tanking? See the Amarr Scout does not fit contextually with the others, in fact since beta we were debating on how an Amarr scout would even work. But you see I understand now. Imagine you have a squad of medium frames with Cloaks and and really strong endurance qualities....that's a squad of Amarr Scouts. No one is going to be able to play them like speed freak scouts, so you have to play it like undetectable medium frames, considering you have 230 HP naturally and 287.5 with max armor and shield skills. The Amarr scout is practically the stealthiest medium frame you can have, and with the best scan stats too. You'd use the Amarr scout for the same reason you'd use the Amarr medium frame, HP for the long haul + Stamina to match.
That's a cool way of looking at the Amarr scout, but it seems to me that it can still be easily beaten on EHP by the Gal Scout due to the fact that the Amarr scout will need a repper, while the Gal scout can get by on the built-in one. A built in advanced repper versus half of a basic plate in base EHP seems like an obvious armor tanking advantage for the Gal scout. The Gal scout can further surpass the Amarr in EHP if the Amarr wants to be dampened or improve its scan range. The Amarr scout still seems blatantly underpowered. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1080
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Posted - 2014.02.25 01:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Awry Barux wrote:
That's a cool way of looking at the Amarr scout, but it seems to me that it can still be easily beaten on EHP by the Gal Scout due to the fact that the Amarr scout will need a repper, while the Gal scout can get by on the built-in one. A built in advanced repper versus half of a basic plate in base EHP seems like an obvious armor tanking advantage for the Gal scout. The Gal scout can further surpass the Amarr in EHP if the Amarr wants to be dampened or improve its scan range. The Amarr scout still seems blatantly underpowered.
But see what you're trying to accomplish is the same fit but across two different suits. Of course if you have the same exact fit among two different suits the suit with the innate armor reps is going to win, no matter what fit. You gotta build the Amarr Scout differently, you gotta build it up with plates and a cloak, be the invisible wall. The Gallente Scout (like all gallente) are designed around Armor Rep tanking. I will, in 1.8, stack two reps to most of my fits with the innate 3 hp/s. Why? Because my g.K0 with 4 complex repair modules is my favorite. If you prioritize the ability to recoup HP then the Amarr scout is not for you. If you want the strength of an elephant in the size of an Ant go Amarr scout. If I was to use an Amarr scout, I would (must) fit a cloak, stack 3 plates and a green bottle. I would cloak, move into position, uncloak and gain the surprise abilities of a scout in the HP of medium frame. If you want stealth and high HP you'd go Amarr. If there's a repair tool in squad why bother with a repair module. Amarr fight with force not lengthy engagements, why do you think their weapons all have high DPS?
I see you point, but it's absolutely mind bending to me that a scout would have zero regen, and that's the only way for the Amarr to surpass the EHP of the Gallente scout. I want to like the Amarr scout so badly but it seems it's not for me. |
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