DUST Search - Weak fights

Canari Elphus wrote:

Honestly, the issue with newberries is not the spread for mlt/proto but the fact that they just dont know what they are doing. They dont know about how valuable coms/squads are, they dont know the maps, they dont understand the uses of equipment and they are so used to other FPS games that they just rush in to die horrible deaths. After enough of that, they think that camping roofs or the redline is the only way that they can survive.

I did a test and started a new character recently. I gave it no money and ran as a lone wolf in ambush the whole time. I ran mlt gear with R9 links and a basic weapon the whole time and still posted around a 1.8 KDR and averaged around 700 WP per match. This was while still dealing with proto squads and tanks galore. During the 10 days I did this, I made around 30mil ISK. I obviously didnt have better gear and I am definitely nowhere near the best gun in the game so it had to be the fact that I know the game that helped me as opposed to the other newberries.

The only way to combat this is to give them better tutorials and walk through's to begin with and longer time separated from vets so that they can get used to their gear and learn the maps. Also, ISK payout needs to be more dependent on WP than it currently is. It needs to follow the risk/reward structure of EVE.

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2916	Posted - 2014.02.22 02:26:00 - [31] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Redline and roof camping is terrible, but what do you expect when you profit more doing these things where you're at little risk instead of trying to actually win the match on the ground? Sure, you might lose the match, but the difference in payouts is negligible, and when you're at little risk you end up with a higher profit than if you had pushed for the win and thus died more. Yeah all this poor new player stuff is getting old. Most of these matches could be navigated by monkeys with relative success. It's about incentives. Apparently fun isn't a big enough one. Yes, going 0/12 and being spawn camped is lots of fun. I don't know what these new guys are thinking. Look at the scoreboard sometime, and not just your squads. You will see that half of the players are just getting slaughtered or they give up and do nothing. It IS about incentives and there is little incentive to try against stompers. If winning and doing well meant a bigger payout perhaps more people would find a group to play with, thus increasing their chance for more ISK. Maybe every now and then a pub match win results in bonus to the wining side as well. I understand not wanting to go 0-12 over and over again, but I'm not sure these are all new players we are talking about. 60% of every team being newbros? I have a hard time believing Dust has this constant wave of new players. I think some of the blame is that the incentives have been off for too long. I think some people check the opposing team and quit before they ever start the match. I don't know, I just miss fun matches. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2916	Posted - 2014.02.22 02:29:00 - [32] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Dying game. Red line is the only option for most new players. It won't take many weeks of that before they leave. Sh!t 3 games in a row would do it for me and I'm a vet with hundreds invested. I don't buy that. This doesn't feel like a dying game. There is a loyal following of players and I think there is real appeal for this game. The SP gap is bad enough, but having new players ask for 100K ISK to play the next match is BS. Have a week where we don't lose our suits when we die and see how exciting matches are. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 1012	Posted - 2014.02.22 02:33:00 - [33] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Dying game. Red line is the only option for most new players. It won't take many weeks of that before they leave. Sh!t 3 games in a row would do it for me and I'm a vet with hundreds invested. I don't buy that. This doesn't feel like a dying game. There is a loyal following of players and I think there is real appeal for this game. The SP gap is bad enough, but having new players ask for 100K ISK to play the next match is BS. Have a week where we don't lose our suits when we die and see how exciting matches are. the numbers are good. How many people you know still play. I'd venture I've played with thousands who no longer play. Who wants some?
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1766	Posted - 2014.02.22 02:43:00 - [34] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Stiddlefaxq wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Today has been the worst I can ever remember. This is beyond new player getting stomped, red line hiding. Something has to be done to get people out of the redline and off the roofs. It's terrible #ADAPTORDIE #HTFU Mini games to play: Meleeing people in the red line. Crushing people on roofs with drop ships Hacking useless installations in the red line So that's the recipe for success in Dust? How about increasing payouts so people don't feel the need to budget like a ******* accountant. Or, here's an Idea, GET IT SO NEW PLAYERS DON'T NEED TO HIDE? Increasing payouts will do nothing to solve any problem with matchmaking besides make pubstomping easier, and even more prevalent then it is now. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2917	Posted - 2014.02.22 03:04:00 - [35] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Stiddlefaxq wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Today has been the worst I can ever remember. This is beyond new player getting stomped, red line hiding. Something has to be done to get people out of the redline and off the roofs. It's terrible #ADAPTORDIE #HTFU Mini games to play: Meleeing people in the red line. Crushing people on roofs with drop ships Hacking useless installations in the red line So that's the recipe for success in Dust? How about increasing payouts so people don't feel the need to budget like a ******* accountant. Or, here's an Idea, GET IT SO NEW PLAYERS DON'T NEED TO HIDE? Increasing payouts will do nothing to solve any problem with matchmaking besides make pubstomping easier, and even more prevalent then it is now. That's crazy talk, why would you care if you thought you'd get paid? I don't know I guess I'm just one of those dudes who gets after it until the match ends (unless it's tank spam, I'll hide from tanks). I don't think I'm a great player. I don't have years of FPS experience (this is my first to play online) so I feel like I'm still figuring stuff out. I had a .4 KDR after three months playing this game to put things in perspective. I try to get into different squads from good channels, I ask questions, watch YouTube videos of people that are better than me, etc. My point is that you aren't going to become a better player by hiding in the redline for 6 months waiting to get proto gear. Sac Up and push the point. Drop some uplinks and be prepared to lose some suits as you push for a foothold. Get a mic, squad up with some familiar people and learn to play together. This is starting to get cheesy so I'll stop. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1743	Posted - 2014.02.22 03:08:00 - [36] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Stiddlefaxq wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Today has been the worst I can ever remember. This is beyond new player getting stomped, red line hiding. Something has to be done to get people out of the redline and off the roofs. It's terrible #ADAPTORDIE #HTFU Mini games to play: Meleeing people in the red line. Crushing people on roofs with drop ships Hacking useless installations in the red line So that's the recipe for success in Dust? How about increasing payouts so people don't feel the need to budget like a ******* accountant. How about people stop being min/maxing twinks that can't use MLT gear that isn't an HAV? I mean, c'mon, unless you're really worried about KDR there is no reason that you can't run full MLT and not turn a profit. Well, if you can't turn a profit while running MLT gear, you probably shouldn't be playing FPS at all. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 5	Posted - 2014.02.22 03:48:00 - [37] - Quote Yesterday i played a match, Domination, where my team got utterly annihilated. I was doing my usual Logi role, (uplinks/hives/repairs/ect). For most of the match, 8 players from my team basically hid out, chilling, around the ground spawn spot behind our red line. The others were trapped on the other side of the map trying to hold some ground outside of the red line. I personally considered it to be an "alright" match, because some of us got a chance to actually get out and fight, and the other team had the mercy to not tank spam us, so we were able to zip around here and there in jeeps occasionally. When I looked at the scoreboard later, it was clear why most of my team had hid; They were all 0/6, 0/8, 1/9, ect. The other day i was here on these forums explaining that some matches are unplayable. People claimed that I was exaggerating and that its impossible. Well, here is your example. i considered this to be "not that bad". So imagine just how bad a match has to be for me to call it "unplayable". People dont realize, but Dust is not a 5 star game. Its not a popular game, its incomplete, the graphics and mechanics are dated. A game like this needs a large playerbase as its biggest attraction. No one i refer to this game stays that long. PS3 has a huge catalog. There are nicer, better made games with bigger populations people can choose. So people can go around the farm the new players as much as they like. Reality is though, if they scare off too many new players, the playerbase will get so small that you will instead always be playing against the same 500 people. If the game dies, no one will ever know how good your KDR is, or the reputation of your corp. it will just fade into oblivion as a "flop" with very few people ever talking about it again. So if you really do enjoy playing this game, and are proud of all the stats you built up, go easy on the new people.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1746	Posted - 2014.02.22 04:47:00 - [38] - Quote Couple of matches ago I was on a team in a Dom where everyone from 10 on down was 0/X. I'm betting the other side was doing a lot of chest beating over their 2.0+ KDRs (not all of them but most). I just ****** around with a free suit that had REs slapped on it. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 75	Posted - 2014.02.22 04:55:00 - [39] - Quote u al bi,tchn about redline lol BACK off then .... you will get more kills that way . leave uplinks ... dont hack the cru ...... take real dumbarss to push the line then bi.tch about takn it out . wtf are they to go ? set on the mcc so you get nothing ?come on fed up hearing upper lv corp complain when its your own falt .......shame on you all lol
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 5	Posted - 2014.02.22 05:18:00 - [40] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Couple of matches ago I was on a team in a Dom where everyone from 10 on down was 0/X. I'm betting the other side was doing a lot of chest beating over their 2.0+ KDRs (not all of them but most). Most of them were probably rolling with the "Aim assist" option on. Its like being proud of the coffee your coffee machine made. Alaika Arbosa wrote: I just ****** around with a free suit that had REs slapped on it. Yeah I just run around with my nearly default "Spare" fitting in situations like that.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2920	Posted - 2014.02.22 05:44:00 - [41] - Quote Some of these responses make me shake my head. There are certainly times that matchmaking really screws up, nobody can deny that. But again I still go back to finding a squad to run with. I'm not saying it would solve the problems, but if over 50% of teams are solo players I'm not sure how competitive matches will ever be. There are times when you could set up a picnic on a point and nobody shows up from the enemy team. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1214	Posted - 2014.02.22 06:09:00 - [42] - Quote Honestly, the issue with newberries is not the spread for mlt/proto but the fact that they just dont know what they are doing. They dont know about how valuable coms/squads are, they dont know the maps, they dont understand the uses of equipment and they are so used to other FPS games that they just rush in to die horrible deaths. After enough of that, they think that camping roofs or the redline is the only way that they can survive. I did a test and started a new character recently. I gave it no money and ran as a lone wolf in ambush the whole time. I ran mlt gear with R9 links and a basic weapon the whole time and still posted around a 1.8 KDR and averaged around 700 WP per match. This was while still dealing with proto squads and tanks galore. During the 10 days I did this, I made around 30mil ISK. I obviously didnt have better gear and I am definitely nowhere near the best gun in the game so it had to be the fact that I know the game that helped me as opposed to the other newberries. The only way to combat this is to give them better tutorials and walk through's to begin with and longer time separated from vets so that they can get used to their gear and learn the maps. Also, ISK payout needs to be more dependent on WP than it currently is. It needs to follow the risk/reward structure of EVE. Canari Elphus for CPM1
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 993	Posted - 2014.02.22 15:25:00 - [43] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Honestly, the issue with newberries is not the spread for mlt/proto but the fact that they just dont know what they are doing. They dont know about how valuable coms/squads are, they dont know the maps, they dont understand the uses of equipment and they are so used to other FPS games that they just rush in to die horrible deaths. After enough of that, they think that camping roofs or the redline is the only way that they can survive. I did a test and started a new character recently. I gave it no money and ran as a lone wolf in ambush the whole time. I ran mlt gear with R9 links and a basic weapon the whole time and still posted around a 1.8 KDR and averaged around 700 WP per match. This was while still dealing with proto squads and tanks galore. During the 10 days I did this, I made around 30mil ISK. I obviously didnt have better gear and I am definitely nowhere near the best gun in the game so it had to be the fact that I know the game that helped me as opposed to the other newberries. The only way to combat this is to give them better tutorials and walk through's to begin with and longer time separated from vets so that they can get used to their gear and learn the maps. Also, ISK payout needs to be more dependent on WP than it currently is. It needs to follow the risk/reward structure of EVE. Well said and yes to all the above. CEO Whiskey squad leader Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
Scheherazade VII 237	Posted - 2014.02.22 15:53:00 - [44] - Quote I make more money driving around the outskirts of the map in a Sica the entire game destroying installations and whatever vehicles I see. I love farming the same dropship pilot 3 or 4 times until he gives up. Unfortunately that's always going to be more profitable until the core gameplay is in a state which actually makes you want to play it. I lost so much ISK so I switched to tanks to save ISK, went 22-0 and 22-1 2 games back to back that was the most profit I made that day. People will keep hiding on roofs because they can't take the deaths, because you die too quickly to have to pay in-game currency to keep yourself afloat.


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