DUST Search - True Av'ers take on AV vs Vehicles Situation

Berserker007 wrote:

ok, before the main area of the topic; give you some background so maybe what I say have some credibility. From the start of REPLICATION (that's May 2012), I have ran some form of proto AV (be sworms, FG w/ AV nades) from then through this build. Along w/ 2.5yrs worth of AV experience, I have also dabbled in tanks during differ builds on alts, etc; using both shield/armor (though my knowledge is less in that area). To help w/ this post, I even capped out this week for the first time in 8 months to have current ingame knowledge of the interaction b/t AV-vehicles. Now, on with the show

1). First and foremost, vehicles (both tank and dropships) are NOT OP. The problem isn't the vehicle themselves, but how the modules work, and what they do that make tanks OP at the moment.
ex: other game, found a 1/2 hp (meaning only 2k armor) left Mady, rolling around. I get the postion and surprise advantage on the tank while it was dead stopped in middle of open terrain. I shot off all 6 rounds of my proto SL (w/ prof 5 & 3 complex damage mods). After the first hit of the SL, the tank activated its reps and 2nd hardener (in which the tank only have 1/4 armor left after first shot). The next 5 shots, kept putting the tank down to 1/4 armor, but no more b/c of the oo loop of reps and hardeners going about it. Yes some tankers will say you shouldn't be able to solo a tank, yet will say that is BS. Not b/c of me being an AV'er but for balance reason (get into more later). Just for those who care, w/ 6 full hitting vollies of my SL, that is 11.3k damage.

Berserker007 wrote:

2). AV simply put is underpowered. Aside from the FG, which damage hasn't really changed to much, AV as a whole is underpowered. Fixes:
a). SL: per damage rocket up to 275 (for a start to see how it works on balance) . With my setup that is an increase of 80 damage per rocket, so 480 per volley
b). Increase SL mag size back to 4 (including change to Mini assault bonus to not have it do the increase); along w/ giving it a reserve of 8. Keeping it less then the total rounds of the FG, but more then PsC
c). SL range increase to 300-350m. SL is a long range weapon. Yes they are fire and forget, but can be "dodged" easily after first volley is hit (even if locked), as missile will hit into objects/terrain.
d). AV-nades need their pre 1.7 damage back; at least at proto level. A 1.2M skilled item should be OHK a free unskilled LAV
e). Plasma Cannon damage increase. Simply put for a one & done shot it is to weak. It has a slow travel time, really short range, and arc. Damage from this need to give tanks the WTF OMG scene, as they have a low ammo count, along w/ a reload after each shot. Damage should be up to 1250/1500/1750 respectively. This gives a good counter to all the above listed negatives they have. This also allows non heavy suit user a possibly extra way of protection (like how people FG snipe or use as anti-infantry)

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Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 423	Posted - 2014.02.18 23:58:00 - [1] - Quote ok, before the main area of the topic; give you some background so maybe what I say have some credibility. From the start of REPLICATION (that's May 2012), I have ran some form of proto AV (be sworms, FG w/ AV nades) from then through this build. Along w/ 2.5yrs worth of AV experience, I have also dabbled in tanks during differ builds on alts, etc; using both shield/armor (though my knowledge is less in that area). To help w/ this post, I even capped out this week for the first time in 8 months to have current ingame knowledge of the interaction b/t AV-vehicles. Now, on with the show 1). First and foremost, vehicles (both tank and dropships) are NOT OP. The problem isn't the vehicle themselves, but how the modules work, and what they do that make tanks OP at the moment. ex: other game, found a 1/2 hp (meaning only 2k armor) left Mady, rolling around. I get the postion and surprise advantage on the tank while it was dead stopped in middle of open terrain. I shot off all 6 rounds of my proto SL (w/ prof 5 & 3 complex damage mods). After the first hit of the SL, the tank activated its reps and 2nd hardener (in which the tank only have 1/4 armor left after first shot). The next 5 shots, kept putting the tank down to 1/4 armor, but no more b/c of the oo loop of reps and hardeners going about it. Yes some tankers will say you shouldn't be able to solo a tank, yet will say that is BS. Not b/c of me being an AV'er but for balance reason (get into more later). Just for those who care, w/ 6 full hitting vollies of my SL, that is 11.3k damage. 2). AV simply put is underpowered. Aside from the FG, which damage hasn't really changed to much, AV as a whole is underpowered. Fixes: a). SL: per damage rocket up to 275 (for a start to see how it works on balance) . With my setup that is an increase of 80 damage per rocket, so 480 per volley b). Increase SL mag size back to 4 (including change to Mini assault bonus to not have it do the increase); along w/ giving it a reserve of 8. Keeping it less then the total rounds of the FG, but more then PsC c). SL range increase to 300-350m. SL is a long range weapon. Yes they are fire and forget, but can be "dodged" easily after first volley is hit (even if locked), as missile will hit into objects/terrain. d). AV-nades need their pre 1.7 damage back; at least at proto level. A 1.2M skilled item should be OHK a free unskilled LAV e). Plasma Cannon damage increase. Simply put for a one & done shot it is to weak. It has a slow travel time, really short range, and arc. Damage from this need to give tanks the WTF OMG scene, as they have a low ammo count, along w/ a reload after each shot. Damage should be up to 1250/1500/1750 respectively. This gives a good counter to all the above listed negatives they have. This also allows non heavy suit user a possibly extra way of protection (like how people FG snipe or use as anti-infantry) 3). This goes back to #1, but vehicles as a whole need to have hardener modules looked into. The amount of reduction isn't the problem, its more along the time they last, and the cooldown they have. I have no real idea how to fix for balance on this atm; however REAL tankers plz comment on this one. Not sure if their are passive hardeners anymore; but if not, a 1 hardener limit might be needed (however, I rather see hardeners changed then make a limit on them) 4). ADD ADC & PROTO VEHCILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This have been one of the biggest issues since Codex. Cant fully balance AV-vehicles when you don't have the adc/proto vehicles to see how AV affects them 5). Understand the tier balance. As it is, when I've played ive been one of the most outspoken on tier balance for AV-vehicles. As it is, AV should more or less have the advantage against vehicles, BECAUSE (as #4 says) you don't have adv/proto vehicles. It would/should only be natural that AV has the current advantage. a). As is, AV should be able to rip though Soma/Sica's and take a **** on their burnt up hulls no Q's asked. b). AV should have more of a difficult time against Gung/Mady however should still be able to solo, especially if using PROTO (not even adv. Adv should be a toss up at best, but maybe a 60% advantage to AV for tier advantage, but minimal advantage none less). Basic gear should be equal to, or even at disadvantage to Mady/Gung (55% adv for vehicles here). So yeah, will have more when can think/focus. Let the discussion/flame/hatemail/etc begin .... GO Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Travis Stanush GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 23	Posted - 2014.02.19 00:09:00 - [2] - Quote +1 for a well thought out post.
Thumb Green Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 790	Posted - 2014.02.19 00:28:00 - [3] - Quote I can agree with all that. I'd like to point out though that vehicle armor reps are passive now; if it's on there it's always running. I'd also like to add that forge guns need their pre 1.7 charge time back. It's too easy for a tank to escape before you even empty a clip into them even with the assault forge gun; unless you're sitting up high with a clear long range view or the tanker is an idiot and just sits there. Support Orbital Spawns
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 14	Posted - 2014.02.19 00:30:00 - [4] - Quote First of all I'm going to say I like your post, and (in general like what you're saying) I'm a Support Logi, tanker, AVer...so not 100% true tanker...But I'll respond to point 3 as best I can. First off, there are no passive hardeners. The duration/effectiveness of active hardeners is something that needs looked at IMO...and this includes in relation with each other. The best fix to the overall vehicle problem would be to resurrect the idea of the vehicle capacitor...but I don't see that happening. So my thought is that hardeners need their individual effectiveness penalized for fitting multiple hardeners (since there is the absence of the capacitor to make up for duration problems)...this would be in addition to a stacking penalty for having multiple active at the same time Ex. (numbers don't actually mean anything just here for example) When fit and activated individually 1 hardener 60% resist 2 hardeners 50% resist each 3 hardeners 40% resist. When fit an activated together 1 harder 60% 2 hardeners 50% + 25% (50% of the remaining 50%) = 75% 4 hardeners 40% + 24%(40% of remaining 60%) + 14.4% (40% of the remaining 36%)= 78.4% This limits hardeners without limiting hardeners (creates a practical ceiling that you can only advance a few % above)That's just my thoughts...keep in mind that those are only the basic numbers, and there's probably more of a stacking penalty already built in (Like in eve). Now for Miscellaneous points Vehicle armor repairers are passive modules now. (and I'd like to see an active, charge based Ancillary Armor Rep) Swarm Damage and Flight speed both need slight buffs MLT (and by extension 'Dren') Swarms need to have the full magazine size of STD (to make them useful) even if that means even higher fitting cost to offset AV grenades need some sort of buff Swarm Launcher lock range was decreased (to my knowledge at least) to combat a draw distance bug...it was my understanding it was supposed to come back at some point anyway (getting killed by several salvos of invisible rockets...you couldn't dodge them because you couldn't see them) Plasma Cannon could benefit from a tracer round or other targeting interface to make it easier to use (currently, when Plasma Cannons hit shield tanks, they are devastating). People need to remember that the Flux Grenade is an awesome AV weapon
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1668	Posted - 2014.02.19 00:52:00 - [5] - Quote My problem with vehicles is that no one tries. There will be four HAVs on the field and I will be the only one actually trying to kill them with AV. With an advanced PLC, prox mines and standard AV nades I can usually get HAVs in to low armor but without help killing them is difficult. A full sqaud of AV mercs will wreck any vehicle we have very quickly. Three PLCs in a squad would just about do it. I like the heavy armor the way it is because it actually take some teamwork to get things done. For the record I don't have 1 point of SP in any vehicle skill and I have ridden in about two HAVs in the past month or two. I find HAVs boring to be in. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4334	Posted - 2014.02.19 00:59:00 - [6] - Quote Proto Vehicles? What, so like 30m ISK per Tank? My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:02:00 - [7] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: My problem with vehicles is that no one tries. There will be four HAVs on the field and I will be the only one actually trying to kill them with AV. With an advanced PLC, prox mines and standard AV nades I can usually get HAVs in to low armor but without help killing them is difficult. A full sqaud of AV mercs will wreck any vehicle we have very quickly. Three PLCs in a squad would just about do it. I like the heavy armor the way it is because it actually take some teamwork to get things done. For the record I don't have 1 point of SP in any vehicle skill and I have ridden in about two HAVs in the past month or two. I find HAVs boring to be in. I think at the moment people don't "try" b/c at a certain point, it is just ridiculous that a militia tank can "shrug" off proto AV and takes several people to destroy. Like I said in my post, im a "firm" believer in the tier balance, and there isn't any at the moment, so for someone to take out adv/proto AV in a pub game in hopes of something helping to take out the vehicle with slim chance of doing so isn't full worth it. Once there gets some resemblance of balance b/t AV and vehicles I think it will be "easier"/better in terms of how the interaction works. But from my example in my original post, about a 1/2 hp Mady begin hit by my 11.3k damage worth of smarms, along w/ a Fg be4 me and after to still survive is a bit crazy Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:03:00 - [8] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Proto Vehicles? What, so like 30m ISK per Tank? no, figure if keep hulls as it (though think should go back to the 200k hull. Have adv hull be 350-500k ; and proto hulls be 500800k. Yes, they are costly, but hopefully worth it as well if/when introduction Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 684	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:04:00 - [9] - Quote inb4 spkr and tankahiro Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 431	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:06:00 - [10] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: inb4 spkr and tankahiro LOLz , +1 for that. Though is good to see actual logical thinking so far; when they hit the thread all logical will go out the window Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP

Otavio Martins The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 208	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:11:00 - [11] - Quote give us tankers proposition number 4 and we can talk. i bet we will be much more flexible after this RC-1087 Star Wars Fan. Please gimme some ISK.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 684	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:11:00 - [12] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: inb4 spkr and tankahiro LOLz , +1 for that. Though is good to see actual logical thinking so far; when they hit the thread all logical will go out the window I personally think there needs to be an "abandon thread" button for whenever they comment on anything, it would save a lot of anger and unnecessary illogical statements. Personally, you pretty much summed up how vehicles should be, and yeah limit of one hardener would be balanced. This is my MLT tank fit, and i can kill other tanks and infantry with impunity, and I'm a miserable tanker Shield tank (i dont remember which is which) 2x shield hardeners 1x armor hardener 1x armor plate 1x blaster i don't get why i can be almost permahardened, 2 shot infantry, and 3x faster than the fastest unit in the game with maxed kin cats sprinting. All this with 0 sp invested Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 432	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:16:00 - [13] - Quote Otavio Martins wrote: give us tankers proposition number 4 and we can talk. i bet we will be much more flexible after this gladly . Not because I wana be a masochist, but I think this will help the balance issue. Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Logi Stician The Vanguardians INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 254	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:37:00 - [14] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: inb4 spkr and tankahiro Oh my. I get it now. tankahiro TANKER HERO!!! "...and I'm the seventh out of seven sons, my pappy was a pistol, I'm a son of a gun. "
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1715	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:40:00 - [15] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Otavio Martins wrote: give us tankers proposition number 4 and we can talk. i bet we will be much more flexible after this gladly . Not because I wana be a masochist, but I think this will help the balance issue. The thing about proto vehicles is that if they're stronger than current STD objectively rather than situationally, like Dropsuits as opposed to Enforcers, AV will need to be buffed to be proportionately powerful. If I can be bothered getting into a proper position with my FG (and I'm not r*tarded and unable to shoot that day) I can solo most MLT HAVs (except hardener stacked Sicas) and I can either kill or put a serious dent in STD hulls. I just don't think this is a good idea for improving the V-AV relationship. Removing hardener stacking, buffing light AV and reducing speed would do wonders, I think. Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 437	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:44:00 - [16] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Berserker007 wrote: Otavio Martins wrote: give us tankers proposition number 4 and we can talk. i bet we will be much more flexible after this gladly . Not because I wana be a masochist, but I think this will help the balance issue. The thing about proto vehicles is that if they're stronger than current STD objectively rather than situationally, like Dropsuits as opposed to Enforcers, AV will need to be buffed to be proportionately powerful. If I can be bothered getting into a proper position with my FG (and I'm not r*tarded and unable to shoot that day) I can solo most MLT HAVs (except hardener stacked Sicas) and I can either kill or put a serious dent in STD hulls. I just don't think this is a good idea for improving the V-AV relationship. Removing hardener stacking, buffing light AV and reducing speed would do wonders, I think. well the thing is, we wont really know how things will work unless they are there. it is easier for a [competent] developer to add items to then balance, then it would be to balance something against an imaginary object. if adv/proto vehicles are way to overpowered compared to what proto av can do (even if multiple) then theoretically it'd be easy to make some what that would balance things out. Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 4799	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:46:00 - [17] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ok, before the main area of the topic; give you some background so maybe what I say have some credibility. From the start of REPLICATION (that's May 2012), I have ran some form of proto AV (be sworms, FG w/ AV nades) from then through this build. Along w/ 2.5yrs worth of AV experience, I have also dabbled in tanks during differ builds on alts, etc; using both shield/armor (though my knowledge is less in that area). To help w/ this post, I even capped out this week for the first time in 8 months to have current ingame knowledge of the interaction b/t AV-vehicles. Now, on with the show 1). First and foremost, vehicles (both tank and dropships) are NOT OP. The problem isn't the vehicle themselves, but how the modules work, and what they do that make tanks OP at the moment. ex: other game, found a 1/2 hp (meaning only 2k armor) left Mady, rolling around. I get the postion and surprise advantage on the tank while it was dead stopped in middle of open terrain. I shot off all 6 rounds of my proto SL (w/ prof 5 & 3 complex damage mods). After the first hit of the SL, the tank activated its reps and 2nd hardener (in which the tank only have 1/4 armor left after first shot). The next 5 shots, kept putting the tank down to 1/4 armor, but no more b/c of the oo loop of reps and hardeners going about it. Yes some tankers will say you shouldn't be able to solo a tank, yet will say that is BS. Not b/c of me being an AV'er but for balance reason (get into more later). Just for those who care, w/ 6 full hitting vollies of my SL, that is 11.3k damage. Agreed, especially on the "AV should solo part." If you are out-played by an AV'er, you deserve to die. No amount of SP, ISK, LP, nor AUR should allow anyone to purchase gear that makes it literally and/or theoretically impossible to be killed or destroyed by more than one person. Especially when you only have 16 players to your disposal. This would also automatically make HAVs and other vehicles the best counter to themselves, which is also illogical. Nothing should ever become the best counter to itself; that creates both spam and a FoTM (which is exactly what we have now) Berserker007 wrote: 2). AV simply put is underpowered. Aside from the FG, which damage hasn't really changed to much, AV as a whole is underpowered. Fixes: a). SL: per damage rocket up to 275 (for a start to see how it works on balance) . With my setup that is an increase of 80 damage per rocket, so 480 per volley b). Increase SL mag size back to 4 (including change to Mini assault bonus to not have it do the increase); along w/ giving it a reserve of 8. Keeping it less then the total rounds of the FG, but more then PsC c). SL range increase to 300-350m. SL is a long range weapon. Yes they are fire and forget, but can be "dodged" easily after first volley is hit (even if locked), as missile will hit into objects/terrain. d). AV-nades need their pre 1.7 damage back; at least at proto level. A 1.2M skilled item should be OHK a free unskilled LAV e). Plasma Cannon damage increase. Simply put for a one & done shot it is to weak. It has a slow travel time, really short range, and arc. Damage from this need to give tanks the WTF OMG scene, as they have a low ammo count, along w/ a reload after each shot. Damage should be up to 1250/1500/1750 respectively. This gives a good counter to all the above listed negatives they have. This also allows non heavy suit user a possibly extra way of protection (like how people FG snipe or use as anti-infantry) Swarms may be "fire and forget" but the skill in using them comes from positioning and timing. Sure, anyone could fire Swarms from 400m away back then, but unless you were on Manus Peak there's no way in he!l you were gonna hit your target. Along with this, Swarm Launcher's high fitting requirements mean that it's impossible to have high HP, and even more so because you have to sacrifice "tank" for "gank" (Damage Mods) Also, 300-350m is beyond it's rendering range, so I think it would only be fair to add an alarm system and give DSs flares once the swarms are beyond rendering distance. I agree on the PLC buff, but 1750HP doesn't really give a WTF Just Happened?!" effect effect when I have about 3-4k Shields, and 2k Armor.. I believe that direct damage should be (1320/1650/1980) across respective tiers. ((I had to remove the rest as I reaced the Max. Character limit, but I do agree with your other points lol)) -HAND Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 324	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:49:00 - [18] - Quote "Swarms may be "fire and forget" but the skill in using them comes from positioning and timing." Anything in there about coordinating volleys with other swarm launchers? DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1162	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:52:00 - [19] - Quote I think AV grenades should stay as they are. It's the LAVs that need to lose HP. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 235	Posted - 2014.02.19 02:15:00 - [20] - Quote Agreed but I don't see the point in plasma cannon. Just use forge. much faster and more accurate. Unless plasma wants to start at 2500 it'll still be worthless for WTF damage against tanks.

Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 439	Posted - 2014.02.19 02:26:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Also, 300-350m is beyond it's rendering range, so I think it would only be fair to add an alarm system and give DSs flares once the swarms are beyond rendering distance. I agree on the PLC buff, but 1750HP doesn't really give a WTF Just Happened?!" effect effect when I have about 3-4k Shields, and 2k Armor.. I believe that direct damage should be (1320/1650/1980) across respective tiers. ((I had to remove the rest as I reaced the Max. Character limit, but I do agree with your other points lol)) -HAND thanks for the post and agreement on stuff. In regards to the swarm range, that could work (the alert), or maybe the devs/programmers could do their job so swarms render at that range maybe..... Also for the PLC, I figured 1750 would work, b/c you can then take 15% from prof 5, say 2 10% mods, and the nature 20% bonus to shield would make it very scary in its own right (as w/ example there, at this 2850 damage in 1 shot for proto) Again, cool to see someone else taking time to read the post (and heck even agreeing to an extent), as I'd like to believe im being quite unbiased in my opinions/fixes/observations Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 439	Posted - 2014.02.19 02:29:00 - [22] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Agreed but I don't see the point in plasma cannon. Just use forge. much faster and more accurate. Unless plasma wants to start at 2500 it'll still be worthless for WTF damage against tanks. PLC is a 120/80% efficiency rating I believe, where FG is a 90/110. Granted with the"rof" of a FG it will out dps the PLC. Though I was being generous at the 1750 for proto PLC; I originally had it at over 2k, but figured it may of been to high when take damage efficiencies into account Harpyja wrote: I think AV grenades should stay as they are. It's the LAVs that need to lose HP. Simply, no . The problem isn't the hp of the lav's, its the damage output of the AV nades; b/c the av nades also need to be effective as well. At their current state, they are worthless against vehicles (even w/o hardeners active), which shouldn't be. One of the benefits of how AV nades worked, was it allowed players who weren't running with a SL/FG/PLC to have some impact against vehicles, as otherwise you had to run w/ your tail b/t your legs (even against militia lavs). So yeah, the lav HP isn't the problem, its the AV-nade damage. It's simply to weak Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1670	Posted - 2014.02.19 02:36:00 - [23] - Quote Just got done with a match with a HAV killing everyone. Me and one other guy was trying to destroy the HAV. I had it to half armor by myself...just never mind. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 439	Posted - 2014.02.19 02:47:00 - [24] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Just got done with a match with a HAV killing everyone. Me and one other guy was trying to destroy the HAV. I had it to half armor by myself...just never mind. Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1670	Posted - 2014.02.19 02:58:00 - [25] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just got done with a match with a HAV killing everyone. Me and one other guy was trying to destroy the HAV. I had it to half armor by myself...just never mind. You bastard. I was trying to do some crying and you are going to laugh at me. Now I am sad. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
noobsniper the 2nd POISION ROSES Galactic Skyfleet Empire 165	Posted - 2014.02.19 03:04:00 - [26] - Quote Just specinto prof 5 forges all your problems will go away trust me just call me scumbag noob MAG vet raven ftw
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1670	Posted - 2014.02.19 03:33:00 - [27] - Quote noobsniper the 2nd wrote: Just specinto prof 5 forges all your problems will go away trust me Anytime you see me in game drop me a line and I will support you all day. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 442	Posted - 2014.02.19 03:34:00 - [28] - Quote noobsniper the 2nd wrote: Just specinto prof 5 forges all your problems will go away trust me These ideas are the problem here. This isn't a crying about tanks being OP, this is a way to fix things. Saying spec into something else isn't fixing the issue of how other forms of AV are effective. The game NEEDS to be balanced. So before you post here (or on any topic) that is actually a non-troll/legit topic of people pooling their idea/mind, think for a minute. If you think what you have to say is "trollish" then just let it go, read the topic and enjoy but don't give input Closed Beta Vet Mordu's Trials Winner Original IMP
wait reloading Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.02.19 06:20:00 - [29] - Quote - limit hardner modules and give a hull more hp -Assault SL is also useless, who wants to lock onto 2 targets -Raise damage on standard SL, with a shorter lock-on range or missile flight time - Give Assault SL longer lock-on range and flight time at the cost of damage. Something to keep those DS back - Let the min assault get a suit bonus for projectile speeds but shield tanks are fairly easy provided you can get close enough to them to flux, what will they harden if they have no shield
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 453	Posted - 2014.02.19 06:23:00 - [30] - Quote wait reloading wrote: - limit hardner modules and give a hull more hp -Assault SL is also useless, who wants to lock onto 2 targets -Raise damage on standard SL, with a shorter lock-on range or missile flight time - Give Assault SL longer lock-on range and flight time at the cost of damage. Something to keep those DS back - Let the min assault get a suit bonus for projectile speeds but shield tanks are fairly easy provided you can get close enough to them to flux, what will they harden if they have no shield Oh and reduce depleted delay to 6 seconds 20 Is too long 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race



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