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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4799
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Posted - 2014.02.19 01:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:ok, before the main area of the topic; give you some background so maybe what I say have some credibility. From the start of REPLICATION (that's May 2012), I have ran some form of proto AV (be sworms, FG w/ AV nades) from then through this build. Along w/ 2.5yrs worth of AV experience, I have also dabbled in tanks during differ builds on alts, etc; using both shield/armor (though my knowledge is less in that area). To help w/ this post, I even capped out this week for the first time in 8 months to have current ingame knowledge of the interaction b/t AV-vehicles. Now, on with the show
1). First and foremost, vehicles (both tank and dropships) are NOT OP. The problem isn't the vehicle themselves, but how the modules work, and what they do that make tanks OP at the moment. ex: other game, found a 1/2 hp (meaning only 2k armor) left Mady, rolling around. I get the postion and surprise advantage on the tank while it was dead stopped in middle of open terrain. I shot off all 6 rounds of my proto SL (w/ prof 5 & 3 complex damage mods). After the first hit of the SL, the tank activated its reps and 2nd hardener (in which the tank only have 1/4 armor left after first shot). The next 5 shots, kept putting the tank down to 1/4 armor, but no more b/c of the oo loop of reps and hardeners going about it. Yes some tankers will say you shouldn't be able to solo a tank, yet will say that is BS. Not b/c of me being an AV'er but for balance reason (get into more later). Just for those who care, w/ 6 full hitting vollies of my SL, that is 11.3k damage. Agreed, especially on the "AV should solo part."
If you are out-played by an AV'er, you deserve to die. No amount of SP, ISK, LP, nor AUR should allow anyone to purchase gear that makes it literally and/or theoretically impossible to be killed or destroyed by more than one person. Especially when you only have 16 players to your disposal.
This would also automatically make HAVs and other vehicles the best counter to themselves, which is also illogical. Nothing should ever become the best counter to itself; that creates both spam and a FoTM (which is exactly what we have now)
Berserker007 wrote:2). AV simply put is underpowered. Aside from the FG, which damage hasn't really changed to much, AV as a whole is underpowered. Fixes: a). SL: per damage rocket up to 275 (for a start to see how it works on balance) . With my setup that is an increase of 80 damage per rocket, so 480 per volley b). Increase SL mag size back to 4 (including change to Mini assault bonus to not have it do the increase); along w/ giving it a reserve of 8. Keeping it less then the total rounds of the FG, but more then PsC c). SL range increase to 300-350m. SL is a long range weapon. Yes they are fire and forget, but can be "dodged" easily after first volley is hit (even if locked), as missile will hit into objects/terrain. d). AV-nades need their pre 1.7 damage back; at least at proto level. A 1.2M skilled item should be OHK a free unskilled LAV e). Plasma Cannon damage increase. Simply put for a one & done shot it is to weak. It has a slow travel time, really short range, and arc. Damage from this need to give tanks the WTF OMG scene, as they have a low ammo count, along w/ a reload after each shot. Damage should be up to 1250/1500/1750 respectively. This gives a good counter to all the above listed negatives they have. This also allows non heavy suit user a possibly extra way of protection (like how people FG snipe or use as anti-infantry) Swarms may be "fire and forget" but the skill in using them comes from positioning and timing. Sure, anyone could fire Swarms from 400m away back then, but unless you were on Manus Peak there's no way in he!l you were gonna hit your target. Along with this, Swarm Launcher's high fitting requirements mean that it's impossible to have high HP, and even more so because you have to sacrifice "tank" for "gank" (Damage Mods)
Also, 300-350m is beyond it's rendering range, so I think it would only be fair to add an alarm system and give DSs flares once the swarms are beyond rendering distance.
I agree on the PLC buff, but 1750HP doesn't really give a WTF Just Happened?!" effect effect when I have about 3-4k Shields, and 2k Armor.. I believe that direct damage should be (1320/1650/1980) across respective tiers.
((I had to remove the rest as I reaced the Max. Character limit, but I do agree with your other points lol))
-HAND
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4806
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:wait reloading wrote: - limit hardner modules and give a hull more hp -Assault SL is also useless, who wants to lock onto 2 targets -Raise damage on standard SL, with a shorter lock-on range or missile flight time - Give Assault SL longer lock-on range and flight time at the cost of damage. Something to keep those DS back - Let the min assault get a suit bonus for projectile speeds
but shield tanks are fairly easy provided you can get close enough to them to flux, what will they harden if they have no shield
Oh and reduce depleted delay to 6 seconds 20 Is too long 20s is fine. 6s? At what 200HP/s? No.
Gunnlogies are hit and run vehicles. If you find your shields gone then your are either fighting a tank, or you were caught by AV without your hardeners on; which should easily destroy you.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4806
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
wait reloading wrote: - limit hardner modules and give a hull more hp -Assault SL is also useless, who wants to lock onto 2 targets -Raise damage on standard SL, with a shorter lock-on range or missile flight time - Give Assault SL longer lock-on range and flight time at the cost of damage. Something to keep those DS back - Let the min assault get a suit bonus for projectile speeds
but shield tanks are fairly easy provided you can get close enough to them to flux, what will they harden if they have no shield
How about we create a Breach Swarm a Launcher instead?
-High Damage -Slightly Slower Swarm Speed -Shorter Lock Radius
Variety is always best.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4806
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Atiim wrote:
Also, 300-350m is beyond it's rendering range, so I think it would only be fair to add an alarm system and give DSs flares once the swarms are beyond rendering distance.
I agree on the PLC buff, but 1750HP doesn't really give a WTF Just Happened?!" effect effect when I have about 3-4k Shields, and 2k Armor.. I believe that direct damage should be (1320/1650/1980) across respective tiers.
((I had to remove the rest as I reaced the Max. Character limit, but I do agree with your other points lol))
-HAND
thanks for the post and agreement on stuff. In regards to the swarm range, that could work (the alert), or maybe the devs/programmers could do their job so swarms render at that range maybe..... Also for the PLC, I figured 1750 would work, b/c you can then take 15% from prof 5, say 2 10% mods, and the nature 20% bonus to shield would make it very scary in its own right (as w/ example there, at this 2850 damage in 1 shot for proto) Again, cool to see someone else taking time to read the post (and heck even agreeing to an extent), as I'd like to believe im being quite unbiased in my opinions/fixes/observations CCP has stated that they can't find the bug that's causing the SL rendering problems, so they won't be able to do their jobs for a while. (Assuming they do in the first place lol)
And I see what your going at. I kinda forgot about Proficency and Damage Mods. However CCP said that they were planing on nerfing Damage Modifers to address the TTK. I'd increase your direct damage model to reflect the changes.
You are being unbiased, and logical. That's why Spkr isn't here.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4806
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Posted - 2014.02.19 15:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Berserker007 wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Agreed but I don't see the point in plasma cannon. Just use forge. much faster and more accurate. Unless plasma wants to start at 2500 it'll still be worthless for WTF damage against tanks. PLC is a 120/80% efficiency rating I believe, where FG is a 90/110. Granted with the"rof" of a FG it will out dps the PLC. Though I was being generous at the 1750 for proto PLC; I originally had it at over 2k, but figured it may of been to high when take damage efficiencies into account Harpyja wrote:I think AV grenades should stay as they are. It's the LAVs that need to lose HP. Simply, no . The problem isn't the hp of the lav's, its the damage output of the AV nades; b/c the av nades also need to be effective as well. At their current state, they are worthless against vehicles (even w/o hardeners active), which shouldn't be. One of the benefits of how AV nades worked, was it allowed players who weren't running with a SL/FG/PLC to have some impact against vehicles, as otherwise you had to run w/ your tail b/t your legs (even against militia lavs). So yeah, the lav HP isn't the problem, its the AV-nade damage. It's simply to weak No AV grenades are just fine. Before 1.7, you gave up almost no AI capabilities while you got a significant AV capability. It was all about going YOLO, throwing down a nanohive, and spam those grenades at a tank until it blew up a few seconds later. I still remember that match where a couple squad members and I were running around in our anti-infantry suits with AV grenades, killing reds, then we decided to go YOLO on these two tanks on their redline and blew them up with nothing but AV grenades and some nanohives (I also only had standard AV grenades), then went back to killing some infantry on their redline. That required a tanker to be both a scrub, and standing still.
If you find yourself in AV Grenades range, then you need to go back to the academy.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
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