The way it is, is much better.

Your right nobody deserves the right to police pfc unless they put the effort in, which kain has done.

And no its better this way, I'd rather pay a weekly fee than pay 50 million isk to a capable team.

The corps on pfc and the ones that will form the council are happy as far as I know, it seems to be people with bs ulterior motives or people who should simply be quiet that have no say that aren't happy.

Stop stirring with your bs.

It's not BS, it's an opinion, and I have one, and a forum last I checked is the place to voice that. You have yours, and I have mine. Yours is just a little more kissA$$ish.

Giving one person, or one group, the right to police something like this is inherently dangerous. I'm sorry, but I don't feel like I should have to give Kane Spero a cent. No one should. Effort? To play a video game? To go in with a team of ringers to mop up some guys who probably have less SP and money and slaughter them out of PC? Yeah, that takes real effort. To play a game he'd be playing ANYWAY, only easier. I'm not attacking the man personally, but I am attacking his motives.

Why not put it the "protection" money in a fund he doesn't have access to, and have someone dole it out to him as needed then?

Here's a thought:

All the big corps (you know who you are) agree to NOT attack PFC. If for instance (and I mean nothing by using specific names for this example) KEQ took a PFC district from Venezuela Corp, then a big corp goes in, takes them out, and returns it for a one time fee to whatever corp wants it via silent auction which will cover the big corps expenses plus some. But only if that district was taken by a big corp in the first place.

If a defending small corp gets attacked by another small corp, and that small corp was proven not to be a shell corp, and loses that district, then they deserve to lose it. Plain and simple. For example (again, nothing in names), Phoenix Fed gets attacked by Exemplars, and loses that district, it should be rightfully Exemplars district to own until they move on outside of PFC (hopefully a corp in that position would hand it off to another, or again, silent auction) or get beat. I do think only so many corps in the same alliance should be allowed spots in PFC though.

I see no reason why any small corp should have to pay Kane Spero protection money. I ask the same question everyone else asks: What gives Kane, or any one person or organization, the right to decide or police PFC? The correct answer is they don't. Let PFC police itself, and only intervene if necessary and get paid that way as I stated above.

It may not seem like a lot of ISK to them. But for corps that are starting out and don't have as much ISK, it's a lot to them. Granted, it's CCP's fault for eliminating corp battles and not opening the map up more.

At the same time I ask this: If corp battles were brought back, do you think NF would bum rush PFC and try to take every one of those districts?

If you're going to make it a noob fest then change the name of the planet... clearly it is no longer Planet Fight Club.... stop calling it that.

If you're going to make it a noob fest then change the name of the planet... clearly it is no longer Planet Fight Club.... stop calling it that.

We need for CCP to bring Corp Battles back, so that PFC can be eliminated.

Those districts were a gift from the higher level corps to those corporations that are hoping to get in the scene, it was never meant to be a long term solution for small corps to taste a little of PC. The community has to accept that some corporations are never going to enter the PC grounds and their PFC district they hold is not actually only for them.

That's complete bs, corp battles don't have any mechanics in whatsoever.

Take your hype elsewhere.

The idea for PFC was never benevolent, it was all an ISK scheme that went south.

The small corporations in PFC were meant to get experience, recruit more for PC, learn the mechanics of attacking/moving clones/clone generation/etc and BUY districts outside of PFC from better corporations. It is very clear that some corporations do not want to be part of PC, but they will like to hold a small piece of land for months without making any effort to grow out of there.

With corp battle back, the community would be able to remove unprepared corporations from PC and send them back to the pool where they should prepare several skirmishes a day in order to actually prepare them for a competitive environment... instead of needing babysitters to protect them from competition.

That's complete bs, corp battles don't have any mechanics in whatsoever.

Take your hype elsewhere.

Where do you think the people that dominate PC now got their **** together? They were doing corp battles against each other for months before PC dropped.

Not having some lower level team deploy has killed PC in terms of player involvement.

Can I nestle my nose between your buttocks?

KEQ took a PFC district from Venezuela Corp

Here's a thought:

All the big corps (you know who you are) agree to NOT attack PFC. If for instance (and I mean nothing by using specific names for this example) KEQ took a PFC district from Venezuela Corp, then a big corp goes in, takes them out, and returns it for a one time fee to whatever corp wants it via silent auction which will cover the big corps expenses plus some. But only if that district was taken by a big corp in the first place.

If a defending small corp gets attacked by another small corp, and that small corp was proven not to be a shell corp, and loses that district, then they deserve to lose it. Plain and simple. For example (again, nothing in names), Phoenix Fed gets attacked by Exemplars, and loses that district, it should be rightfully Exemplars district to own until they move on outside of PFC (hopefully a corp in that position would hand it off to another, or again, silent auction) or get beat. I do think only so many corps in the same alliance should be allowed spots in PFC though.

I see no reason why any small corp should have to pay Kane Spero protection money. I ask the same question everyone else asks: What gives Kane, or any one person or organization, the right to decide or police PFC? The correct answer is they don't. Let PFC police itself, and only intervene if necessary and get paid that way as I stated above.

It may not seem like a lot of ISK to them. But for corps that are starting out and don't have as much ISK, it's a lot to them. Granted, it's CCP's fault for eliminating corp battles and not opening the map up more.

At the same time I ask this: If corp battles were brought back, do you think NF would bum rush PFC and try to take every one of those districts?

i dont know where you get your information from but KEQ has never took a district on PFC from anyone.

we attack PFC districts on occasion to train our new players but have never so much as attempted a district flip.

get your facts straight before you post, jackass.

i dont know where you get your information from but KEQ has never took a district on PFC from anyone.

we attack PFC districts on occasion to train our new players but have never so much as attempted a district flip.

get your facts straight before you post, jackass.

What you need to be in the top corp to be in pfc ? If you were, go get a district out there and stfu. Arent your corp in the top 50 ? Go get them tiger ! Show us the example. Lead the way, be a leader..... Leave the organizing to us.

Whos the jackass? Learn to read. I was using names as EXAMPLES. Which I stated CLEARLY...sigh...some peoples children...

That's complete bs, corp battles don't have any mechanics in whatsoever.

Take your hype elsewhere.

We need for CCP to bring Corp Battles back, so that PFC can be eliminated.

Those districts were a gift from the higher level corps to those corporations that are hoping to get in the scene, it was never meant to be a long term solution for small corps to taste a little of PC. The community has to accept that some corporations are never going to enter the PC grounds and their PFC district they hold is not actually only for them.

Actually the district that a PFC corp occupies is theirs to use as they please as long as it is within the rules set up by the council and they don't perma-lock the district on full clones. A PFC corp in good standing is free to sell their district as well in consultation with the PFC council.

PFC was originally set up by Imperfects and SyNergy, but TeamPlayers began the positive shift towards starter corps.

PFC is discriminating against old corps. You ask if top corp should be requirement to be in pfc. I say no. I also say that being a noob shouldn't be a requirement either. Choosing one is excluding the other.

Ex, you bring up a good point, but the system you speak of is exactly the type of system that Kain is weeding out. It didn't work, Plain and simple, most corps were just farming isk and not doing a damn thing. Kain got them out of the way so corps that want to train and move on can get better in stead of fester and use the isk for pubstomping.

As for smaller corps not having a lot of money flow. Any CEO of any corp wishing to break into PC who reads the forums or talks to other people in the game should know about the isk involved. Preparing a wallet for PC is something you do BEFORE entering into the arena, not AFTER you have a district, even on PFC.

I have no sympathy for those who are not financially prepared to fund a military campaign.

No NF would not take back these districts back because they all know the true reason for doing what they are, giving corps a platform to get better as a team, legit corps who want to get into PC. Not corps that just want to have fun battles like corp battles used to be, then throw in the towel and go back to pubs. It's a waste of time and space for a corp who truly wants to compete.

That's right and Kain is in for an unpleasant surprise when district locking gets nerfed. We have a war chest of isk to attack them with. Anyone who thinks They can get away with extorting isk from corps on PFC will soon become public enemy #1.

shoot bro give the man credit.
atleast he has the ******* to make the threat and push his corp foward or into its grave. its not about the win or losses that make a corp its about the players showing up and keeping their word to fight someone whom they know is not an easy win. like alot of corps prefer to do.
most will hide and sneak attack corps who cant hack it. props to the guy who takes NF to war but i know the caliber of NF players and by no way shape or form is this going to be easy. you may not win any but atleast you will earn respect from them and other corps out there. and thats all this game is really about man. having the *******.
but i will tell you this
dont let your corp fall apart once they start losing because i can tell you right now people get discouraged and lose hope if they start to lose too much.

You deserve a spot on fight club because you are a corp that needs training and should be protected from the Big Outside World of MH PC, but are making threats to take on a group that is from the Big Outside World of MH PC.

8.75mil a week is too much money to pay for a properly working PFC and insurance, but you have a large war chest of ISK to attack with.

Sounds like you were ready to take off the training wheels anyway brah. Think we did you a favor. Look forward to seeing you graduate.

A note though: 10 straight losses will destroy your corp. You might want to find someone else to attack as well, to break things up. Also you are going to want to get yourself a district, because even worse teams will beat you if you try to clone pack them.

Seems like you guys got the whole "playing the match" thing down. PC has a few logistical quirks though, so just a bit of advice.

We can take the heat, graduated long time ago. We have a good number of vets going back to beta. The rampant district locking and lag issues associated with PC are the only things holding us back from consistent PC play. It appears that both of these issues are being addressed by CCP. We will bide our time...

I would just like it explained as to HOW and WHY you need almost 1 BILLION isk a month to maintain PFC. Hey, you got an itemized list that justifies it, great. I won't complain. That number just seems SEVERELY bloated.

You are so wrong. The first corp taking off PFC was Subsonic which upheld all the rules of PFC and never locked their district unlike Death Firm whose district has been locked in the last few days. what he is weeding out are those that oppose him and letting the cowards remain. Plain and simple.

Here's the cold hard truth, if you are not on PFC you do not deserve an answer to ANYTHING, period, get over it. Why do you all care where OUR money goes?

Or are you all just jealous you didn't come up with the idea Kain has put into effect first? I am usually passivebut frankly unless you are on PFC it's none of your fkng business, mind your own...

Sorry in advance for the wall-o-text below, slow Monday

Interesting position to take really.

Example: As a community member, just because I don't cash in welfare food stamps doesn't mean I am not allowed to be concerned, or inquire about the community welfare program. Understand?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is put the shoe on the other foot and look at it from the rest of the communities perspective.

A lot of folks here in this community have been through countless wars, seen top dogs come and go, imposing their will on the Planetary Conquest landscape from get rich quick schemes of policing PFC and taking/selling districts at upwards of 200million a pop... to top corps relentlessly attacking and taking every district a corporation owns... to mid level corps running a muck on PFC killing the experience of new players. We have pretty much seen it all, until this latest scheme of a "protection racket" which was made public knowledge and which is new for most of us. If you didn't want any feedback or resistance from the public, you all should have done better to keep this information confidential.

We are part of the community, PFC is a community driven idea that a lot of us have supported over the past year. Some of us have previously owned districts on PFC and played by the "rules". Some of us were recently booted off the planet by the latest overlord (isn't the first, wont be the last). Some of us are curious about what is going on, not only for our own knowledge.. perhaps someone asking questions is truly interested in getting involved in PFC. Some may be curious as to how much isk you all are feeding NF, one of, if not the most dominating force to ever play this game. ISK is a huge part of this game, and perhaps will have even more importance in the near future when PC gets back into full swing. The ability to attack with clone packs, hire ringers, and fend off a large assault (or even bribe the attackers to switch sides).

Right now MH is all locked up so nothing is happening... as a hypothetical scenario, this money that is being stockpiled COULD be used for other purposes if/when the time comes. Are you that surprised that so many in the community who have been here since beta can see plain as day that this is a huge risk? I think many would agree that nobody should expect NF to sit back in the shadows when PC goes live again and just be the PFC police. Its a statistical probability that they will want to take the fight to the other big dogs like AE and that will require a good amount of isk to fund. Once that task is completed, what is stopping this latest overlord from moving his sights onto the rest of us.... and whats to stop him from using the money currently being stockpiled to fuel a war? What would be the disadvantage of using this stockpile for his own purposes, to **** off a bunch of indy corps who pose zero threat to him?lol Would his potentially "tarnished" reputation really be that big of a deal, or would it be easily forgotten in a month or two?lol this is new eden afterall.

Those are the concerns of the public in a nutshell. Some folks say Kane is a stand up guy and he would never do that. But if you put the shoe on the other foot, not everyone has had dealings either way with this person so some of us may be skeptical at best. Talking about it and bringing up the risks is part of a discussion, it can be assumed that some of these indy corps feeding the giant grapes daily don't know exactly what the repercussions could be once the giant gets too fat.

TL:DR
We have every right to ask questions on a public forum about a community based program. Be careful when you start lashing out at the rest of the community like this, in many cases their bite is much bigger than your bark.

We need for CCP to bring Corp Battles back, so that PFC can be eliminated.

Those districts were a gift from the higher level corps to those corporations that are hoping to get in the scene, it was never meant to be a long term solution for small corps to taste a little of PC. The community has to accept that some corporations are never going to enter the PC grounds and their PFC district they hold is not actually only for them.

Are you saying PFC doesn't get hit at least 10 times by outside forces monthly? Have you been watching PFC at all???

Sorry in advance for the wall-o-text below, slow Monday

Interesting position to take really.

Example: As a community member, just because I don't cash in welfare food stamps doesn't mean I am not allowed to be concerned, or inquire about the community welfare program. Understand?

Sometimes the best thing you can do is put the shoe on the other foot and look at it from the rest of the communities perspective.

A lot of folks here in this community have been through countless wars, seen top dogs come and go, imposing their will on the Planetary Conquest landscape from get rich quick schemes of policing PFC and taking/selling districts at upwards of 200million a pop... to top corps relentlessly attacking and taking every district a corporation owns... to mid level corps running a muck on PFC killing the experience of new players. We have pretty much seen it all, until this latest scheme of a "protection racket" which was made public knowledge and which is new for most of us. If you didn't want any feedback or resistance from the public, you all should have done better to keep this information confidential.

We are part of the community, PFC is a community driven idea that a lot of us have supported over the past year. Some of us have previously owned districts on PFC and played by the "rules". Some of us were recently booted off the planet by the latest overlord (isn't the first, wont be the last). Some of us are curious about what is going on, not only for our own knowledge.. perhaps someone asking questions is truly interested in getting involved in PFC. Some may be curious as to how much isk you all are feeding NF, one of, if not the most dominating force to ever play this game. ISK is a huge part of this game, and perhaps will have even more importance in the near future when PC gets back into full swing. The ability to attack with clone packs, hire ringers, and fend off a large assault (or even bribe the attackers to switch sides).

Right now MH is all locked up so nothing is happening... as a hypothetical scenario, this money that is being stockpiled COULD be used for other purposes if/when the time comes. Are you that surprised that so many in the community who have been here since beta can see plain as day that this is a huge risk? I think many would agree that nobody should expect NF to sit back in the shadows when PC goes live again and just be the PFC police. Its a statistical probability that they will want to take the fight to the other big dogs like AE and that will require a good amount of isk to fund. Once that task is completed, what is stopping this latest overlord from moving his sights onto the rest of us.... and whats to stop him from using the money currently being stockpiled to fuel a war? What would be the disadvantage of using this stockpile for his own purposes, to **** off a bunch of indy corps who pose zero threat to him?lol Would his potentially "tarnished" reputation really be that big of a deal, or would it be easily forgotten in a month or two?lol this is new eden afterall.

Those are the concerns of the public in a nutshell. Some folks say Kane is a stand up guy and he would never do that. But if you put the shoe on the other foot, not everyone has had dealings either way with this person so some of us may be skeptical at best. Talking about it and bringing up the risks is part of a discussion, it can be assumed that some of these indy corps feeding the giant grapes daily don't know exactly what the repercussions could be once the giant gets too fat.

TL:DR
We have every right to ask questions on a public forum about a community based program. Be careful when you start lashing out at the rest of the community like this, in many cases their bite is much bigger than your bark.

Fun fact:

What's 800mil divided by 40 mercs?

That's how much, if NF took every single PFC contract for it's defense,a single merc would make. Just around 20mil a month, not including other corps are called on - so they get a chunk of that 800mil themselves.

Does that seem like a 20mil a month paycheck makes PFC worth policing for anyone?????

Calling something this measly extortion is a joke. Up the rent to 20mil and give the police an actual paycheck - then you can cry extortion.

And just to put things in perspective - I make around 10mil a day. That's 3 PC matches + pubs.

Are you saying PFC doesn't get hit at least 10 times by outside forces monthly? Have you been watching PFC at all???

Sure, ML had two fun training fights against Death Firm and Eternal Beings last week. We are not a PFC landowner, and we also had zero intent on flipping.

Soraya even stated above they can fend off many outside attacks without help.

Who, exactly, is attacking PFC districts with the intent on flipping? How strong are these corps? Do the PFC landowners require a full team of NF to secure their districts, or only a squad or handful of players?

/shrug

Why was subsonic synthesis removed.. because they didn't pay and were to be made an example of, correct? What if NF left them where they were, but unprotected. Provided they didnt break any other rules like district locking or owning outside territory, that would have been great evidence of what happens to a PFC landowner if they don't pay for protection. Your position would have been more solidified with the rest of the community. And assuming they didn't have the protection they would be removed by these hostile corps ready to see PFC burn. Then you all could have said "see what happens if you don't have Kane's protection, buy protection now"

Instead, you all decided to take on the position of the aggressors.. and hence known as a profiteering protection, aka extortion, by a good chunk of the community. This is Politics 101, ya'll shot yourself in the foot now you have a lot of folks looking at you with a raised eyebrow.

If you want these types of inquiries and/or threads to stop ... start being transparent and providing facts instead of asking us to "mind our own business". While everything I type is simply my own thoughts, questions and ideas... as a member of a corp who actively looks for fights with PFC landowners in hopes to help them get better, and fill the need to have good fights, I cant justify the thought that PFC actually works as it is intended. At the very least I hope these inquiries add to the council process and helps make PFC a success.. instead of the failure it has been.

Nobody has answered my question from the other thread either.. how many corps have graduated off of PC and grown to be a successful entity in the rest of PC (before everything was locked down). Still waiting on that one, although I probably know the answer already.

That's all the free advice I can give you for today.

@ Cyrax, I wish you and your crew nothing but success. Glad you had an opportunity to see how the best of the best handle business. Ive only seen it from the other side of the barrel, but it is impressive nonetheless.

My goal with these words was not to create drama, but to discuss some points of view from an outsiders perspective. I don't know what goes on in private discussions within the council and that's the way it should be. If you want to silence the naysayers then share with us.. if not, then don't. The choice is up to you guys :) Nobody has to prove anything to me, I just felt the need to ask some "tough" questions and put them into the air. As long as you young, indy corps are doing what you think is best for yourselves.. then rock and roll with it.

@ Cyrax, I wish you and your crew nothing but success. And thank you for sharing your example of protection gone right. If more stories like that one come to light, and PFC corps start showing improvement with their PC tactics, then PFC will truly be doing its job. I'm glad you had an opportunity to see how the best of the best handle business. Ive only seen it from the other side of the barrel, but it is impressive nonetheless.

My goal with these words was not to create drama, but to discuss some points of view from an outsiders perspective. I don't know what goes on in private discussions within the council and that's the way it should be. If you want to silence the naysayers then share with us.. if not, then don't. The choice is up to you guys :) Nobody has to prove anything to me, I just felt the need to ask some "tough" questions and put them into the air. As long as you young, indy corps are doing what you think is best for yourselves.. then rock and roll with it.

Chill alt-a-potomous.. "how the best of the best handle business" was referring to how NF players dominate on the battlefield.

... then wtf is the problem? You're admitting you don't belong on PFC, so why are you crying about it?

I'm speaking specifically of PC outside of PFC. CCP has appointed no corp to be the "police" of PFC. The nearly 1 billion of monthly ISK in protection $$$ is beyond ridiculous. It's a racket and extortion plain and simple, that makes you a target for everyoe on PFC. and beyond.