DUST Search - why prototype gear should be better

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

why prototype gear should be better

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 00:52:00 - [1] - Quote I know I'm about to get a lot of hatred for this but i believe prototype gear should be better, we all push to get prototype gear just to find out when we get it that it's so closely equal to advanced gear that it's almost not worth it entirely with examples to when you look at the attributes fot combat rifles or at least it pops up this way on my account but advanced combat rifles have more power than prototype combat rifles and the biggest damage gap between a basic and prototype weapon goes to the scrambler rifles with a difference of a prototype viziam doing only 7 more damage than the basic version and onky doing 4 more damage than the advanced crw, all other weapon ddamage gaps are much smaller and then you look at dropsuits and you're absolutely pissed when you notice all prototype suits have the same base armor and shields as their basic versions, the only thing they do right are modules and equipment but it's already confirmed that they'll nerf equipment in the next patch and probably they'll nerf module in the future too making prototype less desirable When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 526	Posted - 2014.02.13 02:55:00 - [2] - Quote One word: range. I don't remember off the top of my head and can't be bothered to look it up, but there's a huge optimal range gap between STD and PRO weapons, and that matters. Also, for dropsuits: slots, bro. More slots = more health, more damage, more speed.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 23	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:04:00 - [3] - Quote ok heres a fix for your combat rifle 25 damage per bullet so thats a 3 round burst for 75 damage thats 3 more then the scrambler then the advanced can do 26.33 per bullet and proto could do 28.5 for 82.5 damage looks more then 3 over scrambler their go you have fun!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 380	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:11:00 - [4] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: One word: range. I don't remember off the top of my head and can't be bothered to look it up, but there's a huge optimal range gap between STD and PRO weapons, and that matters. Also, for dropsuits: slots, bro. More slots = more health, more damage, more speed. And that's the way it should be. People who play this game are hypocrites .. they would watch you die being on the same team and all when the objectives are to win the match .. anything that they can't overcome they whine about to ruin it threw nerfs. They are the real reason this game has no skill and is easy to a certain extent. They hate to work for anything ... that and CCP's unwillingness to create an environment that requires one to use their brains and develop skills ... i.e. high DPS weapons , auto robo aim and ignorant straffing and hip firing accuracy. No .. let's not work for anything and cater to childlike adults ... not because they play video games but because they think that things should be handed to them. Future Caldari Heavy so watch out for this Sumo Shinobi with a Caldari HMG .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 380	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:13:00 - [5] - Quote And everything should be on easymode like that helps them to feel like they have accomplished something . The meaning of hard work died after World War 2. Future Caldari Heavy so watch out for this Sumo Shinobi with a Caldari HMG .
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 527	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:16:00 - [6] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: And everything should be on easymode like that helps them to feel like they have accomplished something . The meaning of hard work died after World War 2. Your bitter rants are not constructive, nor are your gross generalizations about the entirety of Dust's player base. Please, stop.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7038	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:50:00 - [7] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: I know I'm about to get a lot of hatred for this but i believe prototype gear should be better, we all push to get prototype gear just to find out when we get it that it's so closely equal to advanced gear that it's almost not worth it entirely with examples to when you look at the attributes fot combat rifles or at least it pops up this way on my account but advanced combat rifles have more power than prototype combat rifles and the biggest damage gap between a basic and prototype weapon goes to the scrambler rifles with a difference of a prototype viziam doing only 7 more damage than the basic version and onky doing 4 more damage than the advanced crw, all other weapon ddamage gaps are much smaller and then you look at dropsuits and you're absolutely pissed when you notice all prototype suits have the same base armor and shields as their basic versions, the only thing they do right are modules and equipment but it's already confirmed that they'll nerf equipment in the next patch and probably they'll nerf module in the future too making prototype less desirable You do realise when you buy Tech II stuff in EVE you are only paying for slight percentage increases over regular content.....and its those slight bonuses that add up and make your ships more powerful. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:52:00 - [8] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: And everything should be on easymode like that helps them to feel like they have accomplished something . The meaning of hard work died after World War 2. Your bitter rants are not constructive, nor are your gross generalizations about the entirety of Dust's player base. Please, stop. There is truth to it though, a million sp alone to get from level four to five on a dropshuit type should be made more worth it and just about every single gun has faced a nerf in dust, I get that dust wants to promote their game to more players but it shouldn't **** its dedicated players in the process, it takes weeks and months to get high level gear, the reward should match the effort When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 03:58:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: killertojo42 wrote: I know I'm about to get a lot of hatred for this but i believe prototype gear should be better, we all push to get prototype gear just to find out when we get it that it's so closely equal to advanced gear that it's almost not worth it entirely with examples to when you look at the attributes fot combat rifles or at least it pops up this way on my account but advanced combat rifles have more power than prototype combat rifles and the biggest damage gap between a basic and prototype weapon goes to the scrambler rifles with a difference of a prototype viziam doing only 7 more damage than the basic version and onky doing 4 more damage than the advanced crw, all other weapon ddamage gaps are much smaller and then you look at dropsuits and you're absolutely pissed when you notice all prototype suits have the same base armor and shields as their basic versions, the only thing they do right are modules and equipment but it's already confirmed that they'll nerf equipment in the next patch and probably they'll nerf module in the future too making prototype less desirable You do realise when you buy Tech II stuff in EVE you are only paying for slight percentage increases over regular content.....and its those slight bonuses that add up and make your ships more powerful. I'm not asking for things to get OP ,just fair reward for the effort it takes, if advanced is only slightly better than basic and prototype only slightly more better than advanced then they should drop the prices of higher level dropsuits or improve them, simple as that When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 380	Posted - 2014.02.13 04:42:00 - [10] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: And everything should be on easymode like that helps them to feel like they have accomplished something . The meaning of hard work died after World War 2. Your bitter rants are not constructive, nor are your gross generalizations about the entirety of Dust's player base. Please, stop. If your taking it personally then i'm talking about you. Why even address this if it not you that's being spoken about .. and yes the truth hurts . There's nothing bitter about it if it not YOU that is spoken about you would take it with a grain of salt . Good day. Future Caldari Heavy so watch out for this Sumo Shinobi with a Caldari HMG .

killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 04:52:00 - [11] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: And everything should be on easymode like that helps them to feel like they have accomplished something . The meaning of hard work died after World War 2. Your bitter rants are not constructive, nor are your gross generalizations about the entirety of Dust's player base. Please, stop. If your taking it personally then i'm talking about you. Why even address this if it not you that's being spoken about .. and yes the truth hurts . There's nothing bitter about it if it not YOU that is spoken about you would take it with a grain of salt . Good day. Oddly enough I expected to be the one receiving hate over this subject When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 530	Posted - 2014.02.13 04:53:00 - [12] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: True Adamance wrote: killertojo42 wrote: I know I'm about to get a lot of hatred for this but i believe prototype gear should be better, we all push to get prototype gear just to find out when we get it that it's so closely equal to advanced gear that it's almost not worth it entirely with examples to when you look at the attributes fot combat rifles or at least it pops up this way on my account but advanced combat rifles have more power than prototype combat rifles and the biggest damage gap between a basic and prototype weapon goes to the scrambler rifles with a difference of a prototype viziam doing only 7 more damage than the basic version and onky doing 4 more damage than the advanced crw, all other weapon ddamage gaps are much smaller and then you look at dropsuits and you're absolutely pissed when you notice all prototype suits have the same base armor and shields as their basic versions, the only thing they do right are modules and equipment but it's already confirmed that they'll nerf equipment in the next patch and probably they'll nerf module in the future too making prototype less desirable You do realise when you buy Tech II stuff in EVE you are only paying for slight percentage increases over regular content.....and its those slight bonuses that add up and make your ships more powerful. I'm not asking for things to get OP ,just fair reward for the effort it takes, if advanced is only slightly better than basic and prototype only slightly more better than advanced then they should drop the prices of higher level dropsuits or improve them, simple as that It IS a fair reward. This is a FPS- one bullet's worth of health is incredibly valuable, as is 3% damage. I can't count the number of times I've survived a fight with less than 20 health left. If I had been using a lower tier of gear, or my opponent had a higher tier weapon, or one bullet more health, I would have lost.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 04:58:00 - [13] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: True Adamance wrote: killertojo42 wrote: I know I'm about to get a lot of hatred for this but i believe prototype gear should be better, we all push to get prototype gear just to find out when we get it that it's so closely equal to advanced gear that it's almost not worth it entirely with examples to when you look at the attributes fot combat rifles or at least it pops up this way on my account but advanced combat rifles have more power than prototype combat rifles and the biggest damage gap between a basic and prototype weapon goes to the scrambler rifles with a difference of a prototype viziam doing only 7 more damage than the basic version and onky doing 4 more damage than the advanced crw, all other weapon ddamage gaps are much smaller and then you look at dropsuits and you're absolutely pissed when you notice all prototype suits have the same base armor and shields as their basic versions, the only thing they do right are modules and equipment but it's already confirmed that they'll nerf equipment in the next patch and probably they'll nerf module in the future too making prototype less desirable You do realise when you buy Tech II stuff in EVE you are only paying for slight percentage increases over regular content.....and its those slight bonuses that add up and make your ships more powerful. I'm not asking for things to get OP ,just fair reward for the effort it takes, if advanced is only slightly better than basic and prototype only slightly more better than advanced then they should drop the prices of higher level dropsuits or improve them, simple as that It IS a fair reward. This is a FPS- one bullet's worth of health is incredibly valuable, as is 3% damage. I can't count the number of times I've survived a fight with less than 20 health left. If I had been using a lower tier of gear, or my opponent had a higher tier weapon, or one bullet more health, I would have lost. I use lower tier gear to an extreme amount because I find most higher tier gear is beatable with jusk my residual upgrades from skill and my skill at gaming, rarely does a prototype weapon make the difference and it shouldn't be that easy When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 530	Posted - 2014.02.13 05:13:00 - [14] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: True Adamance wrote: killertojo42 wrote: I know I'm about to get a lot of hatred for this but i believe prototype gear should be better, we all push to get prototype gear just to find out when we get it that it's so closely equal to advanced gear that it's almost not worth it entirely with examples to when you look at the attributes fot combat rifles or at least it pops up this way on my account but advanced combat rifles have more power than prototype combat rifles and the biggest damage gap between a basic and prototype weapon goes to the scrambler rifles with a difference of a prototype viziam doing only 7 more damage than the basic version and onky doing 4 more damage than the advanced crw, all other weapon ddamage gaps are much smaller and then you look at dropsuits and you're absolutely pissed when you notice all prototype suits have the same base armor and shields as their basic versions, the only thing they do right are modules and equipment but it's already confirmed that they'll nerf equipment in the next patch and probably they'll nerf module in the future too making prototype less desirable You do realise when you buy Tech II stuff in EVE you are only paying for slight percentage increases over regular content.....and its those slight bonuses that add up and make your ships more powerful. I'm not asking for things to get OP ,just fair reward for the effort it takes, if advanced is only slightly better than basic and prototype only slightly more better than advanced then they should drop the prices of higher level dropsuits or improve them, simple as that It IS a fair reward. This is a FPS- one bullet's worth of health is incredibly valuable, as is 3% damage. I can't count the number of times I've survived a fight with less than 20 health left. If I had been using a lower tier of gear, or my opponent had a higher tier weapon, or one bullet more health, I would have lost. I use lower tier gear to an extreme amount because I find most higher tier gear is beatable with jusk my residual upgrades from skills and my skill at gaming, rarely does a prototype weapon make the difference and it shouldn't be that easy I'm not saying high tier gear isn't beatable with low tier gear, I do that on a regular basis- I don't even have proto gear. This is a FPS, and that's how it should be- if high tier gear guaranteed a win, it would absolutely ruin the game. However, I notice significant improvements to my performance in an advanced suit versus standard gear. The extra ~80 EHP from another low slot, combined with an additional 10% damage boost from being able to fit a complex damage mod, plus another 10% from proto weapon, as well as a 10m larger optimal range, lets me win fights that I wouldn't otherwise. If a ~15% HP boost, 21% damage boost, and 10m larger optimal range doesn't seem like enough of an improvement, well, I don't really know what to tell you. I can miss 20% of my shots against someone with perfect accuracy but standard gear and win. While that may rarely be needed for 1v1s, it's often the difference between winning a 2v1 and only taking one down with you. I'm strongly against increasing the gaps between tiers.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 05:29:00 - [15] - Quote But that's from basic to advanced, the gap from advanced to proto is much smaller and is getting smaller with each update and even back when proto was completely OP I agreed with it because it just takes so damn long to become proto Btw i wasn't a proto back before the nerfing of protos, i got my suit through a respec When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 530	Posted - 2014.02.13 05:38:00 - [16] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: But that's from basic to advanced, the gap from advanced to proto is much smaller and is getting smaller with each update and even back when proto was completely OP I agreed with it because it just takes so damn long to become proto It may be slightly smaller, but it's still more than enough to make a clear difference when playing with it. Let's compare my ADV slayer logi fit vs my LP PRO one: ADV min logi: Kalaakiota RR M1 Locus A-45 Quantum scanner Allotek (r) nanohive Compact nanohive Complex light damage modifier Enhanced armor plate Basic armor plate Basic armor plate PRO min logi: Kalaakiota RR M1 Locus A-45 Quantum scanner Wiyrkomi Triage nanohive K17/D (r) nanohive Compact nanohive Complex light damage modifier Complex light damage modifier Basic shield extender Basic shield extender Enhanced armor plate Basic armor plate Basic armor plate Basic armor plate ADV stats: 103 shield, 469 armor, for a total of 572 EHP 66.55 damage/shot PRO stats: 150 shield, 559 armor, for a total of 709 EHP ~72 damage/shot Plus more powerful repair hives Differences: 137 EHP and ~9% damage, plus better equipment. Again, not huge, but against an equally skilled player in ADV gear, I'm going to win definitively.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 05:46:00 - [17] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: But that's from basic to advanced, the gap from advanced to proto is much smaller and is getting smaller with each update and even back when proto was completely OP I agreed with it because it just takes so damn long to become proto It may be slightly smaller, but it's still more than enough to make a clear difference when playing with it. Let's compare my ADV slayer logi fit vs my LP PRO one: ADV min logi: Kalaakiota RR M1 Locus A-45 Quantum scanner Allotek (r) nanohive Compact nanohive Complex light damage modifier Enhanced armor plate Basic armor plate Basic armor plate PRO min logi: Kalaakiota RR M1 Locus A-45 Quantum scanner Wiyrkomi Triage nanohive K17/D (r) nanohive Compact nanohive Complex light damage modifier Complex light damage modifier Basic shield extender Basic shield extender Enhanced armor plate Basic armor plate Basic armor plate Basic armor plate ADV stats: 103 shield, 469 armor, for a total of 572 EHP 66.55 damage/shot PRO stats: 150 shield, 559 armor, for a total of 709 EHP ~72 damage/shot Plus more, and more powerful, repair hives Differences: 137 EHP and ~9% damage, plus better equipment. Again, not huge, but against an equally skilled player in ADV gear, I'm going to win definitively. True but is right to make the two tiers that close? Your set up is a difference of one to two bullets of one beating the other out by attrition, I'm sayin instead of a proto outsurviving an adv suit by one or two bullets it should be more like five or six well three or four in this case with current kallaakiota RRs When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 531	Posted - 2014.02.13 06:18:00 - [18] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: True but is right to make the two tiers that close? Your set up is a difference of one to two bullets of one beating the other out by attrition, I'm sayin instead of a proto outsurviving an adv suit by one or two bullets it should be more like five or six well three or four in this case with current kallaakiota RRs Yes, it IS right to make the two tiers that close, because in pretty much every non-PC match, there's going to be all three levels of suits and weapons on the field. If the ADV-PRO gap was widened as you suggest, it would be nearly impossible to lose to a STD suit in PRO gear, and that's really bad for overall gameplay. Honestly, that's already the pretty much the case- a bricked protosuit slices through MLT suits like a hot knife through butter. There's a reason so many players can maintain 5+ K/Ds, and it's not because they're all 5x better than their opponents (though some surely are), it's that they're moderately more skilled AND have a major numerical advantage over the majority of the player base. This is a huge part of why Dust is having trouble retaining new players. The fact that someone has been playing Dust for a long time shouldn't translate into nearly insurmountable numerical advantages. Skill should always be more important than gear, and gear can already compensate for moderate differences in skill.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 06:30:00 - [19] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: True but is right to make the two tiers that close? Your set up is a difference of one to two bullets of one beating the other out by attrition, I'm sayin instead of a proto outsurviving an adv suit by one or two bullets it should be more like five or six well three or four in this case with current kallaakiota RRs Yes, it IS right to make the two tiers that close, because in pretty much every non-PC match, there's going to be all three levels of suits and weapons on the field. If the ADV-PRO gap was widened as you suggest, it would be nearly impossible to lose to a STD suit in PRO gear, and that's really bad for overall gameplay. Honestly, that's already the pretty much the case- a bricked protosuit slices through MLT suits like a hot knife through butter. There's a reason so many players can maintain 5+ K/Ds, and it's not because they're all 5x better than their opponents (though some surely are), it's that they're moderately more skilled AND have a major numerical advantage over the majority of the player base. This is a huge part of why Dust is having trouble retaining new players. The fact that someone has been playing Dust for a long time shouldn't translate into nearly insurmountable numerical advantages. Skill should always be more important than gear, and gear can already compensate for moderate differences in skill. No, there needs to be a balance between gear versus skill otherwise there's no point to proto gear and i know what about all the proto stompers well that takes lots of isk, I run proto suits in most my matches because i may only die once or twice a match even when in adv gear but i strip my suits down to make them cost effective, at their current cost it's not right to keep lowering the tier gap when most tanks don't cost the same as my suit, you say it's fair but just two deaths in a true proto loadout ( proto gun and suit and a few complex mods ) and the user loses money on a pub match, the price doesn't match the reward When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1669	Posted - 2014.02.13 06:51:00 - [20] - Quote **** tiers. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!

killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 06:56:00 - [21] - Quote That's not really making a stand on the topic being discussed When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 532	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:12:00 - [22] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: True but is right to make the two tiers that close? Your set up is a difference of one to two bullets of one beating the other out by attrition, I'm sayin instead of a proto outsurviving an adv suit by one or two bullets it should be more like five or six well three or four in this case with current kallaakiota RRs Yes, it IS right to make the two tiers that close, because in pretty much every non-PC match, there's going to be all three levels of suits and weapons on the field. If the ADV-PRO gap was widened as you suggest, it would be nearly impossible to lose to a STD suit in PRO gear, and that's really bad for overall gameplay. Honestly, that's already the pretty much the case- a bricked protosuit slices through MLT suits like a hot knife through butter. There's a reason so many players can maintain 5+ K/Ds, and it's not because they're all 5x better than their opponents (though some surely are), it's that they're moderately more skilled AND have a major numerical advantage over the majority of the player base. This is a huge part of why Dust is having trouble retaining new players. The fact that someone has been playing Dust for a long time shouldn't translate into nearly insurmountable numerical advantages. Skill should always be more important than gear, and gear can already compensate for moderate differences in skill. No, there needs to be a balance between gear versus skill otherwise there's no point to proto gear and i know what about all the proto stompers well that takes lots of isk, I run proto suits in most my matches because i may only die once or twice a match even when in adv gear but i strip my suits down to make them cost effective, at their current cost it's not right to keep lowering the tier gap when most tanks don't cost the same as my suit, you say it's fair but just two deaths in a true proto loadout ( proto gun and suit and a few complex mods ) and the user loses money on a pub match, the price doesn't match the reward High ISK cost is not a valid balancing factor. It works for new players starting from scratch, but there are vets and PC corps sitting on billions- they couldn't care less if they lose 1000s of proto suits, other than the K/D drop. Tank cost and effectiveness is a different matter entirely, let's not bring that in to the conversation. I guess we just simply disagree- in my opinion, the dropsuit skill vs gear balance is just about right. If anything, I think gear provides too large of an advantage. The more you argue, the more it seems to me that you simply want your prototype gear to be a win-button against everyone who isn't using it. Tangent: Whoah, when did real Godin reappear?! Does this mean no more "message from Godin" posts?!
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1226	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:13:00 - [23] - Quote Prototypes are never better than the final product. They have bugs, break down, etc. Drop it like its hat.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 165	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:16:00 - [24] - Quote As it stands, the pro to gear does provide more advantage to the advanced gear already. Even if the difference from ADV to PRO was a 2% performance buff it would be well worth any investment in a more competitive setting (PC matches). There is simply too much at stake in a 'serious' competition to say 'too much money'. My personal take on the matter: Tiericide. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 532	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:18:00 - [25] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: As it stands, the pro to gear does provide more advantage to the advanced gear already. Even if the difference from ADV to PRO was a 2% performance buff it would be well worth any investment in a more competitive setting (PC matches). There is simply too much at stake in a 'serious' competition to say 'too much money'. My personal take on the matter: Tiericide. I too would love some tiercide action, but as long as you see players in 'Neo' suits and AUR weapons on the kill feed, it's never going to happen.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1669	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:25:00 - [26] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: That's not really making a stand on the topic being discussed Assuming you were talking to me, ye it does. I don't think should be stronger becase I don't think they should exist. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 1	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:39:00 - [27] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: True but is right to make the two tiers that close? Your set up is a difference of one to two bullets of one beating the other out by attrition, I'm sayin instead of a proto outsurviving an adv suit by one or two bullets it should be more like five or six well three or four in this case with current kallaakiota RRs Yes, it IS right to make the two tiers that close, because in pretty much every non-PC match, there's going to be all three levels of suits and weapons on the field. If the ADV-PRO gap was widened as you suggest, it would be nearly impossible to lose to a STD suit in PRO gear, and that's really bad for overall gameplay. Honestly, that's already the pretty much the case- a bricked protosuit slices through MLT suits like a hot knife through butter. There's a reason so many players can maintain 5+ K/Ds, and it's not because they're all 5x better than their opponents (though some surely are), it's that they're moderately more skilled AND have a major numerical advantage over the majority of the player base. This is a huge part of why Dust is having trouble retaining new players. The fact that someone has been playing Dust for a long time shouldn't translate into nearly insurmountable numerical advantages. Skill should always be more important than gear, and gear can already compensate for moderate differences in skill. No, there needs to be a balance between gear versus skill otherwise there's no point to proto gear and i know what about all the proto stompers well that takes lots of isk, I run proto suits in most my matches because i may only die once or twice a match even when in adv gear but i strip my suits down to make them cost effective, at their current cost it's not right to keep lowering the tier gap when most tanks don't cost the same as my suit, you say it's fair but just two deaths in a true proto loadout ( proto gun and suit and a few complex mods ) and the user loses money on a pub match, the price doesn't match the reward High ISK cost is not a valid balancing factor. It works for new players starting from scratch, but there are vets and PC corps sitting on billions- they couldn't care less if they lose 1000s of proto suits, other than the K/D drop. Tank cost and effectiveness is a different matter entirely, let's not bring that in to the conversation. I guess we just simply disagree- in my opinion, the dropsuit skill vs gear balance is just about right. If anything, I think gear provides too large of an advantage. The more you argue, the more it seems to me that you simply want your prototype gear to be a win-button against everyone who isn't using it. Tangent: Whoah, when did real Godin reappear?! Does this mean no more "message from Godin" posts?! I was talking about personal use, there are corps that have endless isk but the average dust player doesn't, the problem with proto gear debates is it is a matter of haves and have nots, everyone wants proto gear but no one wants to get killed by it and no i don't want a win button, i'd just like it to be plausible to use in pub, CCP could easily drop the price on everything to make it fair or do the opposite and overhaul proto suits because at their cost it seems CCP thinks anyone in a prototype suit is near impossible to kill and it's definitely not true When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 533	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:46:00 - [28] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: Awry Barux wrote: killertojo42 wrote: True but is right to make the two tiers that close? Your set up is a difference of one to two bullets of one beating the other out by attrition, I'm sayin instead of a proto outsurviving an adv suit by one or two bullets it should be more like five or six well three or four in this case with current kallaakiota RRs Yes, it IS right to make the two tiers that close, because in pretty much every non-PC match, there's going to be all three levels of suits and weapons on the field. If the ADV-PRO gap was widened as you suggest, it would be nearly impossible to lose to a STD suit in PRO gear, and that's really bad for overall gameplay. Honestly, that's already the pretty much the case- a bricked protosuit slices through MLT suits like a hot knife through butter. There's a reason so many players can maintain 5+ K/Ds, and it's not because they're all 5x better than their opponents (though some surely are), it's that they're moderately more skilled AND have a major numerical advantage over the majority of the player base. This is a huge part of why Dust is having trouble retaining new players. The fact that someone has been playing Dust for a long time shouldn't translate into nearly insurmountable numerical advantages. Skill should always be more important than gear, and gear can already compensate for moderate differences in skill. No, there needs to be a balance between gear versus skill otherwise there's no point to proto gear and i know what about all the proto stompers well that takes lots of isk, I run proto suits in most my matches because i may only die once or twice a match even when in adv gear but i strip my suits down to make them cost effective, at their current cost it's not right to keep lowering the tier gap when most tanks don't cost the same as my suit, you say it's fair but just two deaths in a true proto loadout ( proto gun and suit and a few complex mods ) and the user loses money on a pub match, the price doesn't match the reward High ISK cost is not a valid balancing factor. It works for new players starting from scratch, but there are vets and PC corps sitting on billions- they couldn't care less if they lose 1000s of proto suits, other than the K/D drop. Tank cost and effectiveness is a different matter entirely, let's not bring that in to the conversation. I guess we just simply disagree- in my opinion, the dropsuit skill vs gear balance is just about right. If anything, I think gear provides too large of an advantage. The more you argue, the more it seems to me that you simply want your prototype gear to be a win-button against everyone who isn't using it. Tangent: Whoah, when did real Godin reappear?! Does this mean no more "message from Godin" posts?! I was talking about personal use, there are corps that have endless isk but the average dust player doesn't, the problem with proto gear debates is it is a matter of haves and have nots, everyone wants proto gear but no one wants to get killed by it and no i don't want a win button, i'd just like it to be plausible to use in pub, CCP could easily drop the price on everything to make it fair or do the opposite and overhaul proto suits because at their cost it seems CCP thinks anyone in a prototype suit is near impossible to kill and it's definitely not true That's the whole point of proto gear, though- it's supposed to be what you pull out on occasions when you've decided winning is more important than enlarging your wallet. It's very plausible to use it in a pub for a casual player, especially with the LP store, just not all the time, and that's by design.
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 2	Posted - 2014.02.13 07:59:00 - [29] - Quote Yes, it IS right to make the two tiers that close, because in pretty much every non-PC match, there's going to be all three levels of suits and weapons on the field. If the ADV-PRO gap was widened as you suggest, it would be nearly impossible to lose to a STD suit in PRO gear, and that's really bad for overall gameplay. Honestly, that's already the pretty much the case- a bricked protosuit slices through MLT suits like a hot knife through butter. There's a reason so many players can maintain 5+ K/Ds, and it's not because they're all 5x better than their opponents (though some surely are), it's that they're moderately more skilled AND have a major numerical advantage over the majority of the player base. This is a huge part of why Dust is having trouble retaining new players. The fact that someone has been playing Dust for a long time shouldn't translate into nearly insurmountable numerical advantages. Skill should always be more important than gear, and gear can already compensate for moderate differences in skill.[/quote] No, there needs to be a balance between gear versus skill otherwise there's no point to proto gear and i know what about all the proto stompers well that takes lots of isk, I run proto suits in most my matches because i may only die once or twice a match even when in adv gear but i strip my suits down to make them cost effective, at their current cost it's not right to keep lowering the tier gap when most tanks don't cost the same as my suit, you say it's fair but just two deaths in a true proto loadout ( proto gun and suit and a few complex mods ) and the user loses money on a pub match, the price doesn't match the reward[/quote] High ISK cost is not a valid balancing factor. It works for new players starting from scratch, but there are vets and PC corps sitting on billions- they couldn't care less if they lose 1000s of proto suits, other than the K/D drop. Tank cost and effectiveness is a different matter entirely, let's not bring that in to the conversation. I guess we just simply disagree- in my opinion, the dropsuit skill vs gear balance is just about right. If anything, I think gear provides too large of an advantage. The more you argue, the more it seems to me that you simply want your prototype gear to be a win-button against everyone who isn't using it. Tangent: Whoah, when did real Godin reappear?! Does this mean no more "message from Godin" posts?![/quote] I was talking about personal use, there are corps that have endless isk but the average dust player doesn't, the problem with proto gear debates is it is a matter of haves and have nots, everyone wants proto gear but no one wants to get killed by it and no i don't want a win button, i'd just like it to be plausible to use in pub, CCP could easily drop the price on everything to make it fair or do the opposite and overhaul proto suits because at their cost it seems CCP thinks anyone in a prototype suit is near impossible to kill and it's definitely not true[/quote] That's the whole point of proto gear, though- it's supposed to be what you pull out on occasions when you've decided winning is more important than enlarging your wallet. It's very plausible to use it in a pub for a casual player, especially with the LP store, just not all the time, and that's by design.[/quote] true, there are LP prototypes but i hate FW , LP instead ISK is a stupid idea, and LP needs to sorely be downgraded, an LP duvolle takes up less CPU and PG than a GEK When walking on the battlefield i stand alone
killertojo42 Sardaukar Merc Guild 2	Posted - 2014.02.13 08:04:00 - [30] - Quote MY POST GOT SCREWED UP,LOL When walking on the battlefield i stand alone



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.