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Confessions of a slayer logi

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Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 407	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:26:00 - [1] - Quote WARNING This post has alot of text, but I feel I need to shed some light. First, there's no such thing as a slayer logi, there are smart logies, and there are idiots. Idiots are the ones that spec into logistics and shirk equipment for damage mods Let me tell you how my fit evolved into something everyone seems to hate. I made my character on the day the open beta came out and picked the logi because combat engineers and medics are how I work, collected passive SP and played when I could while I was taking classes, my game time picked up when uprising came out and by then I nearly had enough to bring logistics suits to level 5, I took the respec and poured all of my points into gallente logistics suits because I thought in order to get the 25% reduction to equipment cost, which was the best logi bonus, I had to be gallente (didn't know any better, sue me) and so there was no point to getting into any other type of logi. Yes the armor repair was a great bonus, but I wasn't the one that decided all logies should get this bonus, I still would've poured my points into it had that bonus been different. I decided that my next goal should be to start my long journey getting everything in dropsuit upgrades completely maxed out (close to it now) starting with base health and PG, CPU, bit of equipment, etc. To reach this goal I couldn't really bother with weapons, I had the idea that as long as I had a working gun that I could put all of my points into armor, engineering, electronics and the like. I decided to put a point into the SMG because the assault rifle is boring and i was really damn good with the smg in the beta, also it was cheaper and smaller. I shifted over to the scrambler rifle for a while but eventually had to give it up because of the high PG cost and the buff to armor that everyone was getting, used mass driver for a while and got some really good games with that but I expected a nerf would come soon so I ignored it. Around the time I hit 14 million SP I decided I had enough in dropsuit upgrades to take a break and buff my weapon a bit, put a bunch of points into SMGs and got it up to proficiency 3, I was already a pretty good shot, I had to be because all I had to work with was a basic weapon, never got any weapon past operation level 3 until this point. Then it's a long boring road towards more dropsuit upgrades and eventually getting into the combat rifle because it's awesome and more importantly, it costs less PG so I can carry more equipment and put on more defense. So now I'm the slayer logi everyone hates, defense tanked and a good enough shot to the point where I can kill protos in basic gear, truth is I never touched damage mods until like 1.5 or 1.6 and I've always put defense and equipment first, always had every equipment slot filled out, almost always with an injector and a repair tool. It's unfortunate that these are the people everyone is raving against because these are the people who are actually helpful to your team, the logies that think it's effective to get into logistics just to stack on damage mods and have maybe 2 pieces of equipment are morons, but I guess it's kinda tough to put on alot of equipment when you don't have the PG and CPU reduction. So why am I putting this up? I know about the test server change to logi suits, and I find those changes to be a strong possibility of entering the game in 1.8, and the removal of passive armor repair and buff to equipment, this I can handle. However I've heard recently that the logi's PG and CPU may be also in consideration for a nerf as well as the module slots, this is something I believe to be a mistake, and not a very well thought out solution to the wrong problem. If logies have less module slots and less PG and CPU that means they must struggle more to put on defense and equipment, that's it, if the goal is to make logistics suits oriented more towards defense than offense then this is a terrible fix because the shield extenders, defensive replacements for damage modifiers, cost MORE PG and CPU than damage modifiers, and give you barely any extra HP. With the addition of the removal of passive armor repair, people who armor tank now have 2 option, equip 2 complex armor repairers to get the same rate of armor reps, or stack the armor plates and rely on reps from other sources, probably another logi with a similar setup. In conclusion. Put all of this together and theoretically you have logies with equipment slots filled, but with damage mods crowding the high slots and a ton of armor HP following each others with rep tools, does this sound familiar? coughslayerlogi*cough. Obviously what is in theory and what actually occurs in this game is never exactly the same, but this is still alot of overkill and ignoring the problem that was really at hand, that no-one was willing to see. The real problem with why everyone was hating on logies is that here you have a suit that had alot of defense, the same offensive capabilities as every other suit, AND a ton of equipment, the problem isn't that logies were too powerful, it's that every other suit was too bland. The only limit to logies was the fact that they could only use 1 gun, and if you were good with that gun, who cares? Now the other suits are planned to have their own perks that actually making them unique, making it so that there isn't a clear choice between which suit is just plain better. Logies have taken advantage of an incredibly powerful suit for a long time, I'm ok with suffering the armor rep to be taken down a notch for a while, but PG and CPU and module slot nerfs are just plain too much, whatever becomes of it. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 407	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:27:00 - [2] - Quote I know this was alot but I'm hoping it enlightened some of you, if anyone has questions or needs clarification feel free to ask, I'm as experienced as any so called "true logi", just don't jump to any conclusions dealing with something you have never used, hype makes CCP do bad things. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 365	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:34:00 - [3] - Quote Good post & enjoyable read. Thanks for taking the time... As a proto user of both Caldari Logi and Caldari Assault, for me, the choice was simple -- I simply kill more and die less with the Logi. Sometimes I have my logi decked out with three pieces of equipment, other times none at all -- it entirely depends on the tactical situation, what the rest of my squad is running, and what's needed to win. Hopefully that will change in 1.8, and the assault suit will be better at assaulting. Until then, I will continue to use the logi for 99% of my Dust activities.
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2674	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:39:00 - [4] - Quote The best way to be a decent logi bro is to learn the gun play (Logi Slayer) first; then you can be aware of the strategies, routes, angles, camping spots and tactics etc used by assault players. All of this knowledge combine, applied to a logi bro will help you stay alive and in turn will also keep your squad/teammates alive too. I couldn't care less if they take our passive reps away, i'll still be a logi bro to the end. Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 574	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:49:00 - [5] - Quote Damage mods are not cheaper than tanking mods, it's close for Shield Extenders but Armor Plates are much easier to fit. You just explained why the logi is deserving of a Nerf, you didn't choose the suit because of the equipment or the bonuses. You chose it simply because it has the most PG/CPU and the most slots. Others don't even care about equipment, they only equip it after they have for everything else for slaying. The Logi was just too good at its unintended role, it's better than Assaults at killing. I highly doubt they Nerf logi suits to uselessness, remember they are getting the bonus to equipment so a nice reduction in line with that seems appropriate.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3040	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:54:00 - [6] - Quote It's a shame this all started due to people upset with logis topping the leaderboards and their ability to kill. What are we to do? Twiddle our thumbs once the ammo has been restocked and the heavies been repped? I will still pursue this class but the short sightedness of the community can severely hamper and change mechanics of this game that should not be touched. I chose logi because I could help my team and kill. The latter is training that came first. Our class shouldn't be changed because folks don't think we do our jobs. Perhaps they are not doing theirs? I really haven't met a logibro who specifically specced into the class to just horde WPs or load his dropsuit with equipment that is only used by him. Our uplinks, nanohives, armor nanohives, scans and reps have helped changed the tide of war more than once without much thank yous. And we continue to do our jobs without the need for the gratitude. 98% enjoy assisting their team while helping them slay the enemies that lay before them. Enjoyed reading your OP. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 615	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:55:00 - [7] - Quote This is exactly me, although, after 1.8, if there is a respec (there better be), I will be returning to my roots, that is Assault. Caldari Assault, to be exact, with on level in Cal Scout for the look. I don't need luck, I have ammo. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep. CEO of We Who Walk Alone
Billi Gene 450	Posted - 2014.02.03 09:49:00 - [8] - Quote i was in a logi suit the moment it went live during closed beta, and until recently have not used anything else (flapping around inna scout suit alot nowadays to make some isk: average logi suit for me is 60k isk). I chose logi because i knew that there were many players with better gun game and i wanted to support them. This being before many of the WP awards for Links, Needles and Hives. I originally chose Amarr for the dual tank and sidearm, but respecced into Gallente for the equipment fitting bonuses. I tank because I am a primary target. harking back to my days as an Amarr logi, i have advanced lv3 or better in every light weapon as well as SMG. Having respecced back into Amarr logi, i can now go back to my role as Swarm-logi, when the need arises... which is a lot lately :D My most common fits all have Healing Hives and a combination of Links/Rep Tool/Scanner/Normal Hives. If i want to create a new fit i have to delete something =/ when i Pub without a squad, i tend to shoot alot more :P ... because there is no point in repping if blueberries arent watching their HP's. I am still not a top slayer, but I am better for it all, and i give kudo's to my Logibros with both the logi mentality and the gungame to push it further. Pedant, Ape, Troll. My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 796	Posted - 2014.02.03 11:33:00 - [9] - Quote I use assault and logi on the same character. I gotta say my assault fit kills far more but I think that is more down to my play style - I run from a fight and never engage directly. That said, when the map and the players are against me and I know a straight up fight is unavoidable my logi fit is far better in that situation. I don't even fit it for killing (I'm sure that's a surprise for my squad, I do end up with a lot of kills ) Equipment is always my priority for a fit, followed by protection. Only after that do I fit a weapon and even then only fit 1 enhanced damage mod - I have more need for shields as I end up taking a lot of grenades while repping, and Minlogi shields are terrible to begin with. I honestly don't know why I end up killing a lot..I suppose its cus when I see something that has to be done, say hacking an installation, I don't expect my team to have to back me up all the time so I go in myself and take out the opposition there. (I run solo scout quite a lot) From what I've heard of changes in 1.8 I don't think much will change for my fits. All I can think of that might change is trying out running with 2 rep tools and better nives than I do now. I sometimes get called a slayer but I don't see why. They were enemies, they were trying to kill me/ my squad and I have a gun. What else was I supposed to do? "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 409	Posted - 2014.02.03 21:08:00 - [10] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Damage mods are not cheaper than tanking mods, it's close for Shield Extenders but Armor Plates are much easier to fit. You just explained why the logi is deserving of a Nerf, you didn't choose the suit because of the equipment or the bonuses. You chose it simply because it has the most PG/CPU and the most slots. Others don't even care about equipment, they only equip it after they have for everything else for slaying. The Logi was just too good at its unintended role, it's better than Assaults at killing. I highly doubt they Nerf logi suits to uselessness, remember they are getting the bonus to equipment so a nice reduction in line with that seems appropriate. Enhanced armor plates are easier to fit than complex damage modules, but when you're directly comparing the modules, armor plates are too, more expensive in terms of PG, the difference is that armor plates are actually effective and worth putting on, the complex are slightly more effective at a much higher PG cost so alot of people don't use them. In comparing my suit to the assault equivalent, yes the assault suit has less defense and less armor repair, is this the logi's fault? No, this is CCP's fault for not coming up with a reason for assault to be more desirable for those who want to play the frontline fighters, the shock troopers, there are changes coming to provide that contrast between all suits, by removing the armor repair and giving assaults higher rate of fire we'll already see more usefulness of assaults, at a comparable level the assault definitely has more damage output, and reducing the overall defense of the logi to the point where if it is on it's own it will be much more kill-able, this is because many logies will now be sacrificing an armor plate to put on more armor repair modules. This is why removing yet another module or reducing PG and CPU is a bad idea, the armor tanked logi will already have less defense, in this scenario it has less options to put on defense and less room, this is a shift from being team supportive to being team reliant, logies will not be able to defend themselves and will be forced to turn to their team to do the work, what happens then? Everyone turns their attention and tries to kill the logi first, now up to that point it's not necessarily a bad thing, in fact I hear that's pretty similar to EVE, but here's the difference, the logi will be easy to kill if it has barely any defense, logi ships in EVE I hear are highly defensive and tanky, if this change comes about it forces logies to be cowering in a corner with a repair tool. And finally, yes I did pick the logi for the equipment, because when I first started I was not confident in my gunplay, I knew others were, so I wanted to back them up until I got better. This is also why everyone thinks logies are better than assaults, yes it does have something to do with the suits but it's more because logies have decided to go through grueling training, to go through that trial by fire we all go through with only 1 gun and starting with less HP, and the only reason I see the extra module being there is to make up for the defense lost by the logi's base health. If this PG, CPU, mod slot change is coming about, logies MUST have more base health, if you want logies to be more defensive and less offensive, give us comparatively MORE defense and give other suits comparatively more offense. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.

Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 670	Posted - 2014.02.03 21:10:00 - [11] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Damage mods are not cheaper than tanking mods, it's close for Shield Extenders but Armor Plates are much easier to fit. You just explained why the logi is deserving of a Nerf, you didn't choose the suit because of the equipment or the bonuses. You chose it simply because it has the most PG/CPU and the most slots. Others don't even care about equipment, they only equip it after they have for everything else for slaying. The Logi was just too good at its unintended role, it's better than Assaults at killing. I highly doubt they Nerf logi suits to uselessness, remember they are getting the bonus to equipment so a nice reduction in line with that seems appropriate. They are taking a nerf to all EQ except the ones they specialize in, which is a nerf to True Logis, not Armor stacking with Rifle and 2 damage mods Logis.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 885	Posted - 2014.02.03 21:23:00 - [12] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: if the goal is to make logistics suits oriented more towards defense than offense ... uh, no.. the goal should be to make logistics suits STAY THE out of combat!! Do you know what the definition of a "support" role is, in pretty much any other game? A "support" role, is a role which "supports" other players who do the actual killing. If a logi is getting a majority of its points... or even just a significant fraction of its points... from killing.. then it isnt particularly fitting a support role. Similarly, if most logi players are getting a large chunk of their points from killing, then there is something wrong with the design of the suit. Hopefully, the changes coming in 1.8 will fix the current design flaws.
Onesimus Tarsus 1060	Posted - 2014.02.03 21:44:00 - [13] - Quote The only real solution, if indeed this is a problem, is to take slots away...from scouts. Free, on-demand Respecs. Because it doesn't matter and no one should care. Matchmaking by KDR proximity. :)
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 409	Posted - 2014.02.03 21:45:00 - [14] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: if the goal is to make logistics suits oriented more towards defense than offense ... uh, no.. the goal should be to make logistics suits STAY THE out of combat!! Do you know what the definition of a "support" role is, in pretty much any other game? A "support" role, is a role which "supports" other players who do the actual killing. If a logi is getting a majority of its points... or even just a significant fraction of its points... from killing.. then it isnt particularly fitting a support role. Similarly, if most logi players are getting a large chunk of their points from killing, then there is something wrong with the design of the suit. Hopefully, the changes coming in 1.8 will fix the current design flaws. Are you gonna tell a combat medic in war that he has to drop his body armor and only carry a sidearm and that he should run out into an open field to try to rescue people who have been shot? This is ground infantry combat, name another shooter where the support role has his offensive capabilities cut to the point where he can't fight back. The only one I can think of is the volus character from the Mass Effect 3 co-op, and even then, you still had a gun and could take down enemies and more importantly, keep yourself alive! This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 618	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:04:00 - [15] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: if the goal is to make logistics suits oriented more towards defense than offense ... uh, no.. the goal should be to make logistics suits STAY THE out of combat!! Do you know what the definition of a "support" role is, in pretty much any other game? A "support" role, is a role which "supports" other players who do the actual killing. If a logi is getting a majority of its points... or even just a significant fraction of its points... from killing.. then it isnt particularly fitting a support role. Similarly, if most logi players are getting a large chunk of their points from killing, then there is something wrong with the design of the suit. Hopefully, the changes coming in 1.8 will fix the current design flaws. We will see how far you get as a straight assault player when your logi has been nerfed into the ground to the point that they cant even defend themselves and die as soon as you go down because they cant clear the area and pick you up, or they die first and you run out of ammo, need reps, or a scan, or god forbid some backup because most of the assault players tend to run off solo on a "Must kill that one that ran away" mission and end up getting swarmed. I ran straight assault from E3 build, dabbled in the other suits, and came to the conclusion on my own that playing as a more combat oriented logistics unit suited my play style in chrome. I can kill almost as effectively as an assault (This is mostly due to having good gun game and experience in FPS games), and support said assault based players while doing it. Keep in mind, I can kill just as effectively as an assault in a scout suit due to faster movement, so should scouts be nerfed even more so the assaults do all the actual "assaulting"? I don't stack damage mods, I stack shields on highs, armor/reps/ and hacking mods on the lows, so that I can stay alive, and grab the objectives while the "Assault" based classes can watch my ass while I do my job, and what do 90% of the random assault players do? They ******* run off in search of the next kill to up their precious KDR and leave the guy who is actually doing his job as a "Support" player to die. I've taken off my needle and rep tool from my suits when running solo because 90% of the assaults just re-spawn as soon as they die, and don't watch their HP and back off for reps when they are low. Instead I'll set up camp with uplinks, hives, RE's, and a scanner and just hold a point where its actually SAFE for idiot single track minded assault players to continually die and re-spawn, and every so often come back for ammo. I still get more kills because dumb red assaults do the exact same thing (run in without looking around), and your stupid ass is constantly re-spawning on my link only to run out and die again, getting me more WP. It makes it really hard for us to do our jobs when you guys don't do yours, or don't bother to watch your own damn ammo reserves or health bars, hell most of the time were the ones having to run in and kill the guy you were trying to kill so that we can pick your stupid asses up because you just run in without thinking about how you are going to approach the situation. If you are so single minded that you actually believe that the assault classes should be the only ones that can kill effectively, your playing a TEAM based game wrong. Minmatar combat logi till the end. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 409	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:14:00 - [16] - Quote I'm still baffled by the responses people have to what should be done with logies, by people who just refuse to understand what the logi's role is, and the truth is, there is no "role". The logistics suit is specifically designed to sacrifice weapon load and base health to be able to carry more equipment and have more flexibility in module assignment, how people use it is up to them. People seem to want to confine it to a non-combat role which makes no sense because getting food and fuel to the front lines is what logistics is all about. The main choices for what people use logies for is combat medics and pack mules, pack mules are made to bring as much deployable equipment to the field as possible, combat medics are made to keep team members alive in case of emergencies. Where in the world has anyone seen military para-rescue or recovery teams or combat medics NOT carry weapons or be trained soldiers? When did the idea of a combat medic become something other than an EMT with a gun? For those who are complaining about assaults not being as powerful or combat capable as logies, answer this, is it because you put your points into assault suits and then complained later that you made the wrong choice? Logies have been "better" than assaults for a long time, if you wanted to be a frontline combat "role" and deal and take alot of damage, why didn't you get into logistics? If you simply looked at the different suits and what you could do with them and did some math you would've seen that logistics was the clear choice, yes it's dumb and that shouldn't be the case and that is changing but if you put your points into the wrong suit for what you wanted to get out of it then that's your own damn fault. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 885	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:17:00 - [17] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: uh, no.. the goal should be to make logistics suits STAY THE out of combat!! We will see how far you get as a straight assault player. pro tip: I'm not an assault player. Yet , your own words seem to indicate that other assault players dont see particular value in having logis right up next to them. So nothing much will be missed. Quote: Minmatar combat logi till the end. Well then, hopefully that end will be 1.8 Komodo Jones wrote: Are you gonna tell a combat medic in war that he has to drop his body armor and only carry a sidearm and that he should run out into an open field to try to rescue people who have been shot? no, I'm saying that sane medics only run out into a field after it has been reasonably secured by the people who are supposed to actually be doing direct combat. Because most of their carry load is supposed to be for MEDICAL SUPPLIES, NOT BODY ARMOR. Tip to the prior poster who claimed he wanted "TEAM play"... that is team play. You have to rely on other people doing their jobs properly, so you can do yours properly. If you can do it all yourself.. it isnt particularly team play any more.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2461	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:18:00 - [18] - Quote Now you know how I felt back when they nerfed Cal logis PG and CPU, theres nothing like booting up the game and seeing your old logistics fittings flagged as invalid and having to decide between sacrificing your ability to actually stay alive and not be turned into a red smear or giving up the best equipment to help your team Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 885	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:21:00 - [19] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Now you know how I felt back when they nerfed Cal logis PG and CPU, theres nothing like booting up the game and seeing your old logistics fittings flagged as invalid and having to decide between sacrificing your ability to actually stay alive and not be turned into a red smear or giving up the best equipment to help your team That's understandibly scary.... however, what you failed to factor into the experience, is that you were supposed to learn better how to stay alive, with less armor. Go play as a basic scout full time for a month. (with all of 130hp or something) Then go back to playing cal logi. you may be surprised by how you suddenly start staying alive a lot longer than you used to. (presuming you are flexible enough to actually learn something from the 1 month, that is)
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2461	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:27:00 - [20] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Now you know how I felt back when they nerfed Cal logis PG and CPU, theres nothing like booting up the game and seeing your old logistics fittings flagged as invalid and having to decide between sacrificing your ability to actually stay alive and not be turned into a red smear or giving up the best equipment to help your team That's understandibly scary.... however, what you failed to factor into the experience, is that you were supposed to learn better how to stay alive, with less armor. Go play as a basic scout full time for a month. (with all of 130hp or something) Then go back to playing cal logi. you may be surprised by how you suddenly start staying alive a lot longer than you used to. (presuming you are flexible enough to actually learn something from the 1 month, that is) I actually survived much better as a scout than as a logi, Ive been around long enough that I can spend some SP freely to try new things and was running a minnie scout for a bit For myself being able to survive better was due to the mobility of the suit compared to the logi, being able to run for days and vault over any railings with no problem is great Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.

Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 409	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:27:00 - [21] - Quote Yep, we've reduced to nit picking things out of context, I have no interest in dealing with politics. Go ahead, nerf the logi, I used gallente logies back when armor tanking wasn't even viable, I'll continue to use logies, time will tell how well people actually function as a team if that's even possible, I'll do my best and adapt just like always. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 623	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:28:00 - [22] - Quote Its more an issue that we HAVE to do it all ourselves, because the rest of the blue population has this "I must get all the kills" mentality, so naturally we pick the suit and build it so that we can. It really isn't that the logi is too good, the logi is pretty much the only suit that is built properly to fill its role. The other suits are too bad and filling theirs. If they hadn't taken away my 2nd equipment slot from my proto assault suit, I would still be running assault. I have always been an advocate of removing a logis ability to even put damage mods on their suits, but that brings into question of what else does one fit? There aren't really any good logistics based mods for high slots right now, so as a logi its either shields or damage. Passive scan range is a joke for a suit that only has a 10m range base, and leaves us squishy as a marshmallow. (Great, I can see the shotgunner on my radar as he takes my head off..yay) "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 409	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:34:00 - [23] - Quote I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 409	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:37:00 - [24] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Its more an issue that we HAVE to do it all ourselves, because the rest of the blue population has this "I must get all the kills" mentality, so naturally we pick the suit and build it so that we can. It really isn't that the logi is too good, the logi is pretty much the only suit that is built properly to fill its role. The other suits are too bad and filling theirs. If they hadn't taken away my 2nd equipment slot from my proto assault suit, I would still be running assault. I have always been an advocate of removing a logis ability to even put damage mods on their suits, but that brings into question of what else does one fit? There aren't really any good logistics based mods for high slots right now, so as a logi its either shields or damage. Passive scan range is a joke for a suit that only has a 10m range base, and leaves us squishy as a marshmallow. (Great, I can see the shotgunner on my radar as he takes my head off..yay) Finally something that makes sense, don't nerf a good suit, buff the others. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 623	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:39:00 - [25] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers. I personally still believe that it will be the latter of the two. The" KDR>all" mentality in FPS games will always stay, and thus the assault roles will always inevitably continue to chase the kill, even at their own doom. It might even just end up hurting the logi's to the point where they become almost non existent, picking up a scout suit for the 2 equip and mobility to get out when the assaults get overrun. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Al the destroyer NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 55	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:45:00 - [26] - Quote As a true logi I would be in favor of logis only carrying a side arm. My first logi suit after 1.0 was a callogi. It was a good suit for a logi. It was even better suit for slaying. When the nerf hammer came the suit was basically useless for a logi. It was the CPU nerf that killed it. I would have rather had a high slot taken away than the CPU nerf. Oh well I have 3 proto logis now the go.0 is the one I use the most. My callogi never gets used anymore and its such a shame because I love the look of the suit. Respec or not I will always be a logi. Repping my teammates. It is what I do. Unless a tank kills me then they get my full attention. I love to blow me up some tanks!
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 410	Posted - 2014.02.03 23:01:00 - [27] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers. I personally still believe that it will be the latter of the two. The" KDR>all" mentality in FPS games will always stay, and thus the assault roles will always inevitably continue to chase the kill, even at their own doom. It might even just end up hurting the logi's to the point where they become almost non existent, picking up a scout suit for the 2 equip and mobility to get out when the assaults get overrun. I'm thinking this is why all of this "nerf the logies" bs is out there, seems like there are alot of people who just what their suit to be remarkably better than logies so they can get an easier kill, my goal here is to level the playing field or at least blur the lines, I don't want 1 suit to be clearly better I want either all suits to be on level playing field and let the skill of the player decide the outcome, or to have a "rock paper scissors" setup where you can be as good as you want but there will still be something else that's your bane, your weakness, that you need help dealing with, THAT'S what promotes teamwork, mutual necessity, not some one directional crap. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 627	Posted - 2014.02.04 00:03:00 - [28] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: The Infected One wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: I wonder if assaults and heavies, with the knowledge of these changes if they occur, will actually back up to help their logies move up with them, or if they will just blindly sprint to the objectives and leave their team and their support behind now that the have their class buffers. I personally still believe that it will be the latter of the two. The" KDR>all" mentality in FPS games will always stay, and thus the assault roles will always inevitably continue to chase the kill, even at their own doom. It might even just end up hurting the logi's to the point where they become almost non existent, picking up a scout suit for the 2 equip and mobility to get out when the assaults get overrun. I'm thinking this is why all of this "nerf the logies" bs is out there, seems like there are alot of people who just what their suit to be remarkably better than logies so they can get an easier kill, my goal here is to level the playing field or at least blur the lines, I don't want 1 suit to be clearly better I want either all suits to be on level playing field and let the skill of the player decide the outcome, or to have a "rock paper scissors" setup where you can be as good as you want but there will still be something else that's your bane, your weakness, that you need help dealing with, THAT'S what promotes teamwork, mutual necessity, not some one directional crap. Exactly. I still think that simply removing the logis ability to put damage mods on their suits would totally solve the problem, but there really still aren't enough high slot items to give options to the players. I don't know why they are high slots in DUST anyway, aren't they low slots in EVE? That though still makes the shield suits out perform the armor suits because that would just flip what we have now with armor tanking and stacking damage, thus still keeping such an imbalance in suits. I think right now all we can do as logis is wait for 1.8 and see what CCP does to the damage mods (I've seen good things pointing toward different types of damage mods ((ex. at proto lvl: One type of damage mod that gives 10% increased damage to shields, one that gives 10% to armor, and one that gives 5% to shields as well as 5% to armor) to create a less "Blanket effect" and a more specialized role towards how the weapon performs), and hope that they don't totally ruin the whole logi role. Keeping the logi suits how they are, and buffing the others to a point that they are more clearly defined in their role to me seems like the logical approach. Logis should be a jack of all trades, master of none to the point that the other suits have a clear advantage in their intended role on the field and that even a combat oriented logistics unit should still compete with but not out perform a straight slayer suit, and thus stay within the "Support" role. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 411	Posted - 2014.02.04 00:17:00 - [29] - Quote I really just wish we had the ability to build our suits from the ground up, decide how much base HP, equipment slots, equipment slots, PG and CPU the thing has, then we can stop this **** swinging contest about who's class is OP and base it on the player. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Denchlad 7 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 72	Posted - 2014.02.04 00:30:00 - [30] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: As a true logi I would be in favor of logis only carrying a side arm. My first logi suit after 1.0 was a callogi. It was a good suit for a logi. It was even better suit for slaying. When the nerf hammer came the suit was basically useless for a logi. It was the CPU nerf that killed it. I would have rather had a high slot taken away than the CPU nerf. Oh well I have 3 proto logis now the go.0 is the one I use the most. My callogi never gets used anymore and its such a shame because I love the look of the suit. Respec or not I will always be a logi. Repping my teammates. It is what I do. Unless a tank kills me then they get my full attention. I love to blow me up some tanks! As much as I dislike the idea of sidearm only... I originally ran the Core Flaylock on my Calogi. That being said, pre-nerf. So probably not now! But when I started to migrate from Assault to Logi, I did find it strange that I also killed more and died less like so many of you. So I agree, the logi is the only suit that fullfills its role successfully, so I agree with one of the posts above in buffing all other suits rather than nerfing the Logi. If you can't accept change, you will fail in this world.

hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 266	Posted - 2014.02.04 01:15:00 - [31] - Quote another post saying balance everything else not just one thing. you balance what is out of line not everything else. it is easier to change one thing then everything else around it, and in most cases is more effective.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 413	Posted - 2014.02.04 05:08:00 - [32] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: another post saying balance everything else not just one thing. you balance what is out of line not everything else. it is easier to change one thing then everything else around it, and in most cases is more effective. Well in this case the other suits ARE actually under developed. I haven't seen anyone disagree with that. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 632	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:02:00 - [33] - Quote I saw one post suggesting that suits get a bonus to their racial weapon, this would be a great bonus for the assaults, it would give them that edge over the logi suits, and give actual meaning into what race you chose to play, much like the upcoming change to the logi suits where we get a bonus to our racial equipment. The coward Caldari could sit at a safe distance and plink away at everything. The space **** loving Aamar could continue to have laser light show raves (LR still needs to be fixed and brought back to a useful weapon), and scrambler discos. It could actually bring the short sighted Gallente (4 eyes joke) AR back into its intended blaster role. The mighty Minmatar could still be great with the whole hit and run game. It would be a better bonus than a blanket ROF increase for the assault suits (increased ROF + ACR anyone?) and would make them better slayers with their respective weapons. It would also help to curb this plague of MLT heavy frames with proto RR stuff that we see going on, because the assaults would get a bonus to their racial weapons, and make them more appealing to players that just want to run assault. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2033	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:07:00 - [34] - Quote 1.8 ^ When my role won't be outclassed, by a suit intended for the support Class. Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1066	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:15:00 - [35] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: It's a shame this all started due to people upset with logis topping the leaderboards and their ability to kill. What are we to do? Twiddle our thumbs once the ammo has been restocked and the heavies been repped? I will still pursue this class but the short sightedness of the community can severely hamper and change mechanics of this game that should not be touched. I chose logi because I could help my team and kill. The latter is training that came first. Our class shouldn't be changed because folks don't think we do our jobs. Perhaps they are not doing theirs? I really haven't met a logibro who specifically specced into the class to just horde WPs or load his dropsuit with equipment that is only used by him. Our uplinks, nanohives, armor nanohives, scans and reps have helped changed the tide of war more than once without much thank yous. And we continue to do our jobs without the need for the gratitude. 98% enjoy assisting their team while helping them slay the enemies that lay before them. Enjoyed reading your OP. Nah this started in Chromosome when CCP released the Logi stats in their Dev Blog... And almost everyone Theory crafted for a Logi build... And this was when Dust was about individual player skill. Not skill points, Gear + AA... Now with how DUST works and the already crazy strong suit options compared to the others.. its even worse.. NONE of this is a surprise we told CCP this about Logi's in Chromosome Dev Blog's, IRC.... you name it... Then Uprising Launched and Imps was like a Sea of Golden Cal Logi's... and most strong gaming groups followed in suit after... To the point where they had to individually nerf the cal logi... Migrated to the other logi suits and laugh... This IS NOT A SURPRISE.... Everyone told CCP about the theory crafted logi until their fingers where numb and struggled to take breath... it fell on def ears... Shrugs
toasterwaffles THE IMMORTAL L3GI0N 10	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:16:00 - [36] - Quote My logi is simply the proto caldari with 5 complex shield extenders, 2 enhanced 1 basic armor, 1 CPU extender, kaaliakoita rail rifle, compact Nanohive, and enhanced needles. Check out our site
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 420	Posted - 2014.02.04 18:40:00 - [37] - Quote The Infected One wrote: I saw one post suggesting that suits get a bonus to their racial weapon, this would be a great bonus for the assaults, it would give them that edge over the logi suits, and give actual meaning into what race you chose to play, much like the upcoming change to the logi suits where we get a bonus to our racial equipment. The coward Caldari could sit at a safe distance and plink away at everything. The space **** loving Aamar could continue to have laser light show raves (LR still needs to be fixed and brought back to a useful weapon), and scrambler discos. It could actually bring the short sighted Gallente (4 eyes joke) AR back into its intended blaster role. The mighty Minmatar could still be great with the whole hit and run game. It would be a better bonus than a blanket ROF increase for the assault suits (increased ROF + ACR anyone?) and would make them better slayers with their respective weapons. It would also help to curb this plague of MLT heavy frames with proto RR stuff that we see going on, because the assaults would get a bonus to their racial weapons, and make them more appealing to players that just want to run assault. Don't see why not, but commando already has damage buffs for racial weapons, I guess doing something like cooldown and heat building for amarr, increased rate of fire for caldari, increase range for gallente, and...idk what for minmatar, I'm basing this off of weapon weaknesses and I've never found something wrong with minnie weapons lol, wider blast radius? Tighter spread? Reload speed or max ammo? iunno. But you are right about one thing that's kinda terrifying, heavy suits no longer getting a bonus to heavy weapons and heavy weapons being pretty much crap, AND a likely respec? Gonna see alot of heavies with their damage reduction, hauling around rail rifles and combat rifles...scramblers...uuugh, and people expect logies to survive with no health lol. Can't cross the street without someone holding my hand. Seriously removing passive armor repair is enough, with the buffs that every other suit is getting they'll be even. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 32	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:51:00 - [38] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: if the goal is to make logistics suits oriented more towards defense than offense ... uh, no.. the goal should be to make logistics suits STAY THE out of combat!! Do you know what the definition of a "support" role is, in pretty much any other game? A "support" role, is a role which "supports" other players who do the actual killing. If a logi is getting a majority of its points... or even just a significant fraction of its points... from killing.. then it isnt particularly fitting a support role. Similarly, if most logi players are getting a large chunk of their points from killing, then there is something wrong with the design of the suit. Hopefully, the changes coming in 1.8 will fix the current design flaws. So the only suits that should be able to fit equipment are the logis with your reasoning. Would you like CCP to remove your equip. slot so the support logis can rely on you to protect us so we can be pack mules for everyone. Many support logis are on the front line where we are the most useful, with rep tool range getting a nerf we will have to balance on your shoulders in order to rep you. Support logis are going to become even more scarce, the witch hunt is almost complete,a sea of assaults and scouts will pour of the landscape, Dust514 COD is about to begin.
BATTOUSAI THE MANSLAYER New Age Empire. 39	Posted - 2014.02.04 19:53:00 - [39] - Quote They can nerf logis into the ground and I'll still be behind you holding my rep tool. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 638	Posted - 2014.02.04 20:17:00 - [40] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: something like cooldown and heat building for amarr, increased rate of fire for caldari, increase range for gallente, and...idk what for minmatar, I'm basing this off of weapon weaknesses and I've never found something wrong with minnie weapons lol, wider blast radius? Tighter spread? Reload speed or max ammo?. I would personally like to see an increase in max ammo per mag/clip as a Minmatar bonus, with all of our natural high ROF weapons (CR, SMG, Flaylock, HMG, (Not so much the mass driver lol can you imagine a 400 RPM AMD lmao) an increased clip size would help out a lot in an engaged firefight against something with higher individual strike damage)) It could make Minmatar weapons totally OP though, would have to be done carefully. Reload speed aside from the HMG could be OP because the CR has around 2.5 or something (I don't have the game sitting in front of me right now) as it is, so 25% faster reload speed from the skill, and then another 25% lets say for arguments sake from the assault bonus would bring reload down to 1.25 sec, why switch weapons when it takes that long to switch anyway? Tighter spread...The CR and SMG already have those skills in their own trees, so again stacking that on could kind of break the game in the sense that the weapons could be far too accurate from hip fire. Edit: Blast radius, maybe not because we don't want the flaylock and MD to become the primary OP fire and forget weapons that they used to be. Although the bonus to damage modifier % per level would still be an alright one considering that our assaults are the hit and run specialists, 1 complex mod would in effect turn into 1 complex and one basic at lvl 5. Perhaps a bonus to shield regeneration or regen delay since again we are the hit and run specialists? It would allow the assault to get into cover, get the shields back, and get back into another fight. It's not like were regenerating our shields at 35/pulse like the current Caldari assaults. I believe that we max out with the current skill bonus at around 25/pulse, and have far lower shielding than the Cal assault. Even a blanket kind of movement speed increase (Movement and sprint) per level for the Minmatar Assault would be helpful for our hit and run style, and give our assaults an actual fighting chance to pull it off. (Even matching the minni scout speed at lvl 5 would be alright since we have a larger hit box, profile, lower scan precision and only 2 lows at proto level.) "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6194	Posted - 2014.02.04 20:43:00 - [41] - Quote How did you make the conclusion that the Logi Repair bonus = 2 complex armor repair modules? Or did you mean STD/ADV? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6194	Posted - 2014.02.04 20:45:00 - [42] - Quote Fun to read post, but I don't think you get the point. I used the TAC AR because I wanted a long range damage dealing platform, I didn't know it's OP. That's pretty much the logi situation in a nutshell. The nerfs are necessary. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 642	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:06:00 - [43] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: How did you make the conclusion that the Logi Repair bonus = 2 complex armor repair modules? Or did you mean STD/ADV? To whom are you speaking, good sir? I'll be dropping a hacking mod, and adding a complex rep mod for the 6.25/sec armor rep since they are getting rid of the Logi's natural 5/sec armor rep, and my Minmatar Logi is no longer receiving the hacking bonus. I never came to any conclusion that the rep bonus was 2 complex rep mods. The current purposed Min Assault bonus is a 5% to damage mod effectiveness per level, that would put the current complex damage mod of 10% up to 12.5% for the first damage mod, which is in just under what you would get from stacking 1 complex (10%) and one basic (3% + the stacking penalty) given that the stacking penalty for your 2nd damage mod is roughly 87% of the 2nd mods bonus given. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Identity Denied Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:24:00 - [44] - Quote BUMP! Devs please read this and take these guys ideas into consideration, there are a lot of good ideas and some serious thought in their posts. Its a nice refreshing change to see on these forums.
Connection Failure TACTICAL STRIKE ELITE 2	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:30:00 - [45] - Quote Identity Denied wrote: BUMP! Devs please read this and take these guys ideas into consideration, there are a lot of good ideas and some serious thought in their posts. Its a nice refreshing change to see on these forums. Mainly The Infected One and Komodo Jones Also **** you for taking my name.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 427	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:36:00 - [46] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: something like cooldown and heat building for amarr, increased rate of fire for caldari, increase range for gallente, and...idk what for minmatar, I'm basing this off of weapon weaknesses and I've never found something wrong with minnie weapons lol, wider blast radius? Tighter spread? Reload speed or max ammo?. I would personally like to see an increase in max ammo per mag/clip as a Minmatar bonus, with all of our natural high ROF weapons (CR, SMG, Flaylock, HMG, (Not so much the mass driver lol can you imagine a 400 RPM AMD lmao)) an increased clip size would help out a lot in an engaged firefight against something with higher individual strike damage. It could make Minmatar weapons totally OP though, would have to be done carefully. Reload speed aside from the HMG could be OP because the CR has around 2.5 or something (I don't have the game sitting in front of me right now) as it is, so 25% faster reload speed from the skill, and then another 25% lets say for arguments sake from the assault bonus would bring reload down to 1.25 sec, why switch weapons when it takes that long to switch anyway? Tighter spread...The CR and SMG already have those skills in their own trees, so again stacking that on could kind of break the game in the sense that the weapons could be far too accurate from hip fire. Edit: Blast radius, maybe not because we don't want the flaylock and MD to become the primary OP fire and forget weapons that they used to be. Although the bonus to damage modifier % per level would still be an alright one considering that our assaults are the hit and run specialists, 1 complex mod would in effect turn into 1 complex and one basic at lvl 5. Perhaps a bonus to shield regeneration or regen delay since again we are the hit and run specialists? It would allow the assault to get into cover, get the shields back, and get back into another fight. It's not like were regenerating our shields at 35/pulse like the current Caldari assaults. I believe that we max out with the current skill bonus at around 25/pulse, and have far lower shielding than the Cal assault. Even a blanket kind of movement speed increase (Movement and sprint) per level for the Minmatar Assault would be helpful for our hit and run style, and give our assaults an actual fighting chance to pull it off. (Even matching the minni scout speed at lvl 5 would be alright since we have a larger hit box, profile, lower scan precision and only 2 lows at proto level.) Edit 2: I'll be dropping a hacking mod from my Logi and replacing it with an armor rep since my scout will be getting the hacking bonus, and that armor rep has saved my ass many a time while running for cover after repping a guy who doesn't even realize I'm there and thus doesn't defend me. (CCP BRING BACK THAT ORANGE GLOW WHEN YOU'RE BEING REPPED SO PEOPLE KNOW!!!!!) I just meant total ammo, not in the clip, but that's boring and clip size would be better if done carefully, but yeah I didn't think about instead of a weapon bonus having something that makes the suits more capable, faster self repair or more speed would be great. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 657	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:40:00 - [47] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: I just meant total ammo, not in the clip, but that's boring and clip size would be better if done carefully, but yeah I didn't think about instead of a weapon bonus having something that makes the suits more capable, faster self repair or more speed would be great. All weapons already have ammo capacity, but wouldn't it be cool to have 600 in reserve for the CR and SMG lol Supply depot? Pffft, who needs it. "NEW MISSION! I want you to blow up... THE OCEAN!" BURN ALL THE BABIES!!!!
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 428	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:40:00 - [48] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: How did you make the conclusion that the Logi Repair bonus = 2 complex armor repair modules? Or did you mean STD/ADV? I usually use a repairer instead of 5 armor plates so it actually gives me some decent armor repair, just going off of my own experiences lol. So to replace that repair rate I'd need to use 2 complexes and have even less room for armor plates, sorry probably should've clarified. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 428	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:42:00 - [49] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Komodo Jones wrote: I just meant total ammo, not in the clip, but that's boring and clip size would be better if done carefully, but yeah I didn't think about instead of a weapon bonus having something that makes the suits more capable, faster self repair or more speed would be great. All weapons already have ammo capacity, but wouldn't it be cool to have 600 in reserve for the CR and SMG lol Supply depot? Pffft, who needs it. Lol really though even with max ammo 3 I still burn through ammo like kerosene soaked tissue paper, but yeah that wouldn't really be necessary. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 428	Posted - 2014.02.04 21:45:00 - [50] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Fun to read post, but I don't think you get the point. I used the TAC AR because I wanted a long range damage dealing platform, I didn't know it's OP. That's pretty much the logi situation in a nutshell. The nerfs are necessary. Not arguing with the fact that they need a nerf because even if all the other suit bonuses come out the logi would still be ridiculously powerful lol. I'm just concerned with CCP going overboard, at what point would a logi suit just be not worth using? This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.

Corrupted Files Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:40:00 - [51] - Quote Bump
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 428	Posted - 2014.02.04 22:50:00 - [52] - Quote I'm realizing there's alot that doesn't make sense to the game, so let's clear some stuff up, what actually is the problem with logistics suits? Like let's define that and then work from there. Personally I think it's because, the way things are set up with how armor tanking is (and gallente logies are probably the most guilty of this because of how they work with armor tanking), you end up with a suit, at max level skills: -Can be heavily armor tanked and still have a significant amount of armor repair, basically equivalent to having an extra low slot And at the same time: -Carry a full loadout of equipment, or even at the basic level logisuit, more equipment than any other suit on the market. -Still because of the high amount of PG and CPU, can have alot of damage modifiers and a very good weapon. Would everyone agree this is what's annoying everyone? Did I miss anything or is there something that's not entirely true? Edit: I should add in that this is all in direct comparison to other suits, and whatever flaws or shortcomings they might have. I realize I also should've started with defining what the logistics suit is or what it is supposed to be but it seems like alot of us have opinions about this that will take far too long to meet on common ground so I'm skipping this part, that way we can get on with finding a way to put all of the suits in a more balanced position so it's fair, no matter what everyone thinks certain suits are "supposed" to be. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 657	Posted - 2014.02.04 23:37:00 - [53] - Quote I think that one of the biggest issues, and one that gives the ability to totally tank the logies is that there is no requirement to fill all, if any of the equipment slots. That, with the large amount of CPU and PG that we are given lends even a basic suit the ability to stack complex mods and weapons to great effect. Another issue is the fact that we can stack damage mods at all, with really not much of a penalty. 100% for the first, 87% for the 2nd, 56% (Roughly) for the 3rd, 23% for the 4th, and around 10% for the 5th. Granted that the 4th and 5th aren't really doing anything except eating up CPU and PG, it still adds up in the long run and they don't eat up enough CPU and PG to cover not having to fit any equipment to make the suit valid. All we have to do to make a suit valid is slap a weapon on it. Period. If the logi had to fill all their equipment slots to make a valid suit, it would help a bunch against tanking armor and damage and just running slayer, even if all you put on were basic things, it still eats up CPU and PG, and adds to the total suit cost. There really aren't many options for high slot mods that are useful, so it generally boils down to either tank or damage, this is another issue that CCP should address. We were given a large CPU and PG pool for a reason, and it wasn't intended to be to stack on just health and damage. Maybe only allowing the Logi to use a side arm is a good idea, but then I'll still just throw on either a proto scrambler pistol and 3 shot most suits with maxed out prof while hiding behind a heavy, or throw a proto SMG on and melt guys from almost the same range as the standard AR with higher DPS. CCP designed a sandbox for us and said "Go play", so we did. It didn't take long before people realized that the logi suit was the most versatile suit in the game because there are no set ground rules as to how you have to have your suit set up. I ran assault until Chrome, but I always looked at the logi thinking "Wow, I can do so much more with that suit" all the while not making the switch because my Proto assault had 2 equipment slots, and that's all I needed, one for hives, one for RE's. Then CCP changed that on us. They took away the equip slot because people bitched about assaults filling the logi role, we still had team view, so if I was running low on ammo I could just look at the mini map and find my way around the red dots to the closest supply depot, or hive to re-supply. Then they took away team view and gave us scanners. (Which now is basically team view via equipment) They gave us contact grenades, and the firearms took a back seat, everyone was just spamming hives and throwing grenades, the logies took advantage of this and started fitting 3-4 hives on their suits, because more hives = more grenades = longer survivability and more kills. "What light weapon?" I, like many of my corp mates switched to the logi role because now we couldn't always find ammo for our assaults, grenade spam was at its prime and if you didn't have hives, you were dead to the red guy that was standing on his spamming contact grenades. Then came the explosives. Ah it was beautiful, EXPLOSIONS everywhere. Mass driver, flaylock, contact grenades, RE's. Everyone died. A LOT! So naturally uplinks were required, who can fit uplinks and hives, and an explosive weapon, and grenades? LOGIES CAN! So even more people started running logi suits, people got used to brick tanking their logi suits against all of these high damage AOE weapons. CCP nerfed the explosives. Everyone was already used to not having a side arm, brick tanking, and having all the equipment that they could handle. Spamming links and hives so they would never be out of the fight for too long, and never run out of ammo. During all of this one thing never changed. The suits. people realized that the other suits were simply underwhelming in comparison, they no longer filled their intended roles on the battle field because "Hey, need to do something yourself? grab a logi suit, put what you need on it, go to town." boldThis brings me to my actual long winded pointbold. At this period in time as we are playing this game, we have gotten used to having everything we could ever want at our fingertips because CCP let us, and like true creatures of habit, molded by our environment, the logi suit is clearly the winner in every category. look at the logic behind it if you will, a full team of 16 logi suits (Doesn't matter which race) running with all their equipment and weapons, in any and every variation that you can think of will clearly overshadow any other team you can try and build. Why? Because CCP lets us build our suits that way. There are no restrictions on what you have to fit to your suit." Its our sandbox, were playing, don't touch my bucket, but give me your shovel." IF CCP decides now that "This has gone far enough" and nerfs the logi suits into the ground, how many people do you think are going to stick around? How many are still going to try and fill that support role? Personally, I'll go scout and heavy, because they offer damage reduction as a heavy, and the scout gives me mobility, stealth, 2 equipment, a side arm slot, and enough high and low slots to play with and find a sweet spot that I can perform another "Jack of all trades, master of none" role. Once other people start catching on (No I'm not acting like I invented it) and it starts to flourish, this whole argument will start over again, just Insert new suit name here. The logi suits aren't REALLY the problem. They have the CPU/PG, and slots to make them efficient in the slayer role, hacker, support, stealth, and tank positions. Not because they are simply OP. They are only OP because the other suits whose roles they are filling are incredibly UP and lackluster at performing their own specific task. This game NEEDS balance, its not TF2. Bring the other suits up to par. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? THAT SENTENCE HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES! APOLOGIZE!
Identity Denied Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2014.02.05 00:57:00 - [54] - Quote BUMP! FOR LOGIC!
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 434	Posted - 2014.02.05 02:21:00 - [55] - Quote What people don't realize is that there are several little problems in the game, that aren't directly related to logistics suits, but that logistics suits can take advantage of because they have alot of modules, alot of PG and CPU, and alot of equipment slots, and reducing this won't necessarily SOLVE all of those problems so much as just sweep them under the rug. Let's address right now what's wrong: 1. Armor tanking is a clear win over shield tanking, here's why, armor plates take up roughly the same amount of PG but alot less CPU, they give you a huge amount more health, you can also have damage modifiers on top of having armor plates and damage mods take up less PG (but more CPU) than shield extenders. This makes no sense, armor tankers can take alot of hits and deal a crapload of damage, and shields tankers can deal less damage and take less damage? The scales are clearly tipped. Shields are supposed to be able to recover quickly and get back in the fight but with repair tools and triage nanohives there's no reason for an armor tanker to ever leave the fight, there's no need for a skirmisher and it turns the current shield regen into a joke. When placed in the hands of a logi you have a suit that can have a high amount of health and doesn't need to worry about repairing itself because you put on a complex repairer and suddenly you're getting 11.5 hp/second, so any damage you take will wear off in under a minute, and you have the ability to put on damage modifiers or stack shields for even more health. And you don't need to worry about taking up too much room because of the high PG and CPU The fix: Buff shield extenders, buff recharge speed (maybe only for certain suits), move damage mods to low powered slots. Also provide a tool that stimulates shield regeneration, either a shield recharge tool or something that cancels the delay for shields to recharge, idk how that would work and that can be tackled another time because that's a delicate issue lol 2. No other suit can carry more than one piece of equipment. At least at the prototype level I don't see why assault suits don't have 2 equipment slots, and I'm glad scouts are getting 2 but honestly that's just so they can take advantage of cloaks. This coincides with logies having alot of PG and CPU because they needed the room for the equipment, but the gallente logi and soon ALL logies will have 25% reduction to equipment cost because they are built to carry equipment, so in this case I can agree with a proportional loss in PG and CPU as there will be some left over even when all the equipment is on. The fix: Give assault suits 2 equipment slots, with some races at advanced level suits, others at prototype, none at basic. And in hindsight I can see a reason for the reduction of PG and CPU of logies but it still shouldn't be at the same level as assault because we still have alot of equipment to carry. I don't agree with it being a requirement that ALL equipment slots for logies to be filled before the fitting is valid, after all it's not required that heavies have to have heavy weapons, commandos have to have 2 light weapons, or that scouts have to equip cloaks, also lower leveled players who don't have logistics suits at level 5 won't be able to even use their logistics suit well, some would need 3 pieces of equipment, all militia, plus a gun, would they even have room for modules? Make 1 piece of equipment mandatory, maybe 2 at the prototype level, no more. 3. WP distribution is not complete or balanced, people say logies should only be sitting around and repairing people, I don't really have a problem with this BUT at some point we stop getting war points for this, it caps to prevent farming and then we either have to get a kill or get killed to get a different suit. There are no war points for dealing damage to vehicles which is tactically advantageous, it's very difficult for infantry to kill vehicles but driving them away is easily possible, and this should reward people who are using AV. There are no war points for terminating a clone which is almost a tactical necessity. There are no extra war points for defending objectives, installations, repairing vehicles. There's no difference in war points awarded for reviving someone with a prototype nanite injector and a militia one, therefore people use crappier ones so they can farm more war points. There's a whole post on this kind of stuff that I found fascinating, but I lost track of it 4. Guns, need I say more? I will anyway, heavy weapons are crappy, I could outgun heavies with an SMG as long as it's not a boundless, which is why alot of heavies use rifles. There is no difference between a gun on a logi and a gun on an assault suit or on any other suit, this is changing but this means that logies assaulty as assault suits, while I think it should be possible to make logies powerful too, that shouldn't be a built in and already prevalent feature in the game. Also guns are so powerful and TTK so fast especially with aim assist, it makes it pointless to use any module that doesn't have to do with defense or attack power on a regular basis. Anything past this should be fixed with the fix for #1. 5. Scanners are ridiculous, they're getting nerfed to the point where people can't scan the whole field but they still function, done. These are just a few of the broken mechanics in the game that tip the game in the favor of logies. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 434	Posted - 2014.02.05 03:32:00 - [56] - Quote One thing I forgot to mention, I think that the current setup of High and Low module slots is far too limiting and ineffective. Think about this for a second, if you have a choice between HP and minimap scanner range, which one would you pick? Easy choice. If you have a choice between extra damage and extra scan precision, which one would you pick? Scan precision obviously...loljk Now how about a choice between extra speed and more profile dampening? Aha now that's not such an easy decision. Right now, when you have a choice between defense and offense, and subsystems that don't help in a gun fight, it's clear what the winner will be, and this is a side effect from the power of the guns, and the TTK being so high as to basically disallow you to focus on defense, as well as everyone's "KDR" mentality, lack of teamwork, proto stomping, and trolling in general. We need more slots, but not more to shove more armor plates or damage mods in, so I'm thinking we reduce the effectiveness of some modules like armor plates and damage mods, and just add row of slots or maybe 2, something that we can put scanner buffs in or speed enhancers or hacking mods. Why not put all of the biotics, electronics, and hacking mods into something like a "mid" slot? Seriously why not, there are a rare few people who are taking advantage of them anyway and unless it's speed or stamina mods mainly on scout suits how many of them are used regularly? How often do you run out there with hacking modules unless you intend to run in and quickly hack a point and then change your suit? This is something that everyone can take advantage of and just gives them more flexibility. Might be a scary thought to have people who tank defense to also have some speed but if it's done well this shouldn't be a problem, more importantly if matchmaking is finally worked on then you don't need to worry about an even heavier form of proto stomping. This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.


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