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Aim Assist: Opinions from Candidates

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Knight Soiaire Fatal Absolution 4898	Posted - 2014.02.02 15:45:00 - [1] - Quote I personally feel like Aim Assist is one of the major contributors to low TTK, as soon as you pop out of cover, the enemy has a bead on you and is already through your shield, everyone couldn't have become expert marksmen over night. So what do you feel needs to be done to Aim Assist, if anything? Reduce its effectivness? Limit it to High-Sec battles, only? Remove it? I would at least like to see it removed from Low-Sec battles, it really does make a difference in 1v1s, and anyone who says it doesn't has simply never turned it off. So, what do the candidates feel need to be done? Fatal Absolution Operation - LVL 5 Fatal Absolution Pro. - LVL 5 FOTM Abuser, outta mah way Nyain San!
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 897	Posted - 2014.02.02 16:06:00 - [2] - Quote Remove it. It has no place in any game that wants to be considered competitive in my opinion. Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running. Delt for CPM1
Radar R4D-47 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 403	Posted - 2014.02.02 19:01:00 - [3] - Quote Every game I have ever shot people in has aim assist. It does detrack from the competitive side of who has the true skills. Removing aim assist will reduce the NPE because some new players have no skill and rely entirely upon it to succeed. Personally I believe aim assist isn't a problem. The superstars still shine and everyone else gets a little crutch. Sure its annoying but there is far more important things than tweaking aa.
Knight Soiaire Fatal Absolution 4902	Posted - 2014.02.02 19:14:00 - [4] - Quote Radar R4D-47 wrote: Every game I have ever shot people in has aim assist. It does detrack from the competitive side of who has the true skills. Removing aim assist will reduce the NPE because some new players have no skill and rely entirely upon it to succeed. Personally I believe aim assist isn't a problem. The superstars still shine and everyone else gets a little crutch. Sure its annoying but there is far more important things than tweaking aa. What about limiting it to high-sec? That means the NPE remains undamaged, and Low-Sec battles like FW, and PC become more competitive. Fatal Absolution Operation - LVL 5 Fatal Absolution Pro. - LVL 5 FOTM Abuser, outta mah way Nyain San!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1281	Posted - 2014.02.02 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: What about limiting it to high-sec? That means the NPE remains undamaged, and Low-Sec battles like FW, and PC become more competitive. The problem there, is that then the feel of the game changes from mode to mode. What works for you in pubs suddenly doesn't work at all in PC, and that's a poor experience. As a KBM user, aim assist is the bane of my existence: It's a crutch I'm not even able to use. So on that basis, I really despise aim assist. But I definitely see it's value for console players. One of the ideas I thought was most intriguing, was the idea of using a module of some sort to enable it. Which would reward people for not using it with extra fitting and power grid compared to people who needed it. So using aim assist might help them hit you more often, but they may not be able to hit you as hard, because it takes up a slot that otherwise might've gone to a complex damage mod. So, in short, CCP should reward players for not using it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 921	Posted - 2014.02.02 19:46:00 - [6] - Quote Auto aim is a result of one of those legacy decisions that I spoke of here In answer 3. Namely the inclusion of M&KB in Dust 514. The inclusion of it wasn't made for design reasons at all. CCP has a history of not only ignoring the player base on crucial matters but also being incredibly pandering to them if they think it'll be popular. Doesn't happen often, but it does from time to time. For those not familiar to Dust 514's gestation and development, it was for a long time going to be on PC. And the Eve community were of course expecting that being so, they could play on it with M&KB. However, it was decided from a business standpoint that entering into the console market with a freemium model FPS that could act as a Trojan horse and get those players interested in the world of New Eden. When the announcement that is was going to consoles as well, then amended to console exclusive, there was a lot of community anger. So, as an olive branch to those upset by the decision it was quickly decided to add M&KB to the game on console. The PS3 has always been capable of using them but hardly anyone up to that point had tried it for an FPS game because of the balancing issues in regard to how much accurate a mouse is. So now we have the current situation. After two years of trying CCP haven't still got both control systems to work in balance. Leaving us with the following options. 1. Remove auto aim. If this is done, then M&KB users MUST accept that they will have to be nerfed in some way. The DS3 users wouldn't stand a chance against them otherwise and as the vast majority of players use the DS3 they should not be penalised. We need more players coming in the game, not less. 2. Keep M&KB and DS3 in separate matchmaking. Hardly One Universe/One War and not at all practical as it fragments the playerbase. 3. Remove M&KB altogether and concentrate purely on making the game as good as possible with the DS3. If I'm brutally honest this would be my preferred option. That being said, I know that we can't put the genie back in the bottle. I just wish CCP had had the balls to own the decision fully when they went console, just use the DS3 and not pander to the QQ'ing that happened. 4. Keep the status quo and just continue to chip away at the balance issues between the two control systems till a happy medium is reached. Toning down the Auto aim a little would help. But another thing to keep in mind is that the autoaim itself is a legacy issue. Because the hit detection was so unutterably bad in Uprising they made it more powerful to compensate. And they haven't put it back to what it was yet now they fixed the hit detection. TTK is also not a cut and dried thing. Those that simply say add more HP are not thinking properly about it. There are far more elegant ways to effect TTK. Adding damage resists, lowering of ROF, shot dispersion. There is really no one way to fix it but rather a combination of actions that will help it. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Yokal Bob G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 338	Posted - 2014.02.02 20:15:00 - [7] - Quote Having tried AA as well as the setting off, I personally find it better off. But it does enhance the NPE, especially with low gear. Im not sure if it would be viable for CCP to disable the setting in high sec battles from a cost perspective though. I guess it would depend on the voice of the community though as to what will happen to it. CPM1 candidate I want my logi tank back
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 898	Posted - 2014.02.02 20:38:00 - [8] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: 1. Remove auto aim. If this is done, then M&KB users MUST accept that they will have to be nerfed in some way. The DS3 users wouldn't stand a chance against them otherwise and as the vast majority of players use the DS3 they should not be penalised. We need more players coming in the game, not less. False, as a gamepad user who has played competitively vs KB/m users in PC games, that's just false. The only limitation ds3 users have is unaquired skill using a controller from using aim assist in other console games. Join the Channel - CPM1 Candidates - Get to know who's running. Delt for CPM1
Radar R4D-47 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 404	Posted - 2014.02.02 20:57:00 - [9] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: 1. Remove auto aim. If this is done, then M&KB users MUST accept that they will have to be nerfed in some way. The DS3 users wouldn't stand a chance against them otherwise and as the vast majority of players use the DS3 they should not be penalised. We need more players coming in the game, not less. False, as a gamepad user who has played competitively vs KB/m users in PC games, that's just false. The only limitation ds3 users have is unaquired skill using a controller from using aim assist in other console games. Playing with both I have come to the understanding with a keyboard mouse I can perform a 360 rotation 2 if not 3 times faster then with a ds3. The strafing mechanics with a keyboard are far superior to ds3 allowing movement speed to constantly be at 100%. Target aquisition is improved because of these 2 factors allowing for quicker response time to a situation. Only thing I found hindering with a mouse is the equipment wheel. I do believe being a logi with KB/m is a nightmare.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2142	Posted - 2014.02.02 21:38:00 - [10] - Quote Radar R4D-47 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: 1. Remove auto aim. If this is done, then M&KB users MUST accept that they will have to be nerfed in some way. The DS3 users wouldn't stand a chance against them otherwise and as the vast majority of players use the DS3 they should not be penalised. We need more players coming in the game, not less. False, as a gamepad user who has played competitively vs KB/m users in PC games, that's just false. The only limitation ds3 users have is unaquired skill using a controller from using aim assist in other console games. Playing with both I have come to the understanding with a keyboard mouse I can perform a 360 rotation 2 if not 3 times faster then with a ds3. The strafing mechanics with a keyboard are far superior to ds3 allowing movement speed to constantly be at 100%. Target aquisition is improved because of these 2 factors allowing for quicker response time to a situation. Only thing I found hindering with a mouse is the equipment wheel. I do believe being a logi with KB/m is a nightmare. What about input lag? Funkmaster was talking about this, but I can't recall the details. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars

Knight Soiaire Fatal Absolution 4904	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:37:00 - [11] - Quote Radar R4D-47 wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: 1. Remove auto aim. If this is done, then M&KB users MUST accept that they will have to be nerfed in some way. The DS3 users wouldn't stand a chance against them otherwise and as the vast majority of players use the DS3 they should not be penalised. We need more players coming in the game, not less. False, as a gamepad user who has played competitively vs KB/m users in PC games, that's just false. The only limitation ds3 users have is unaquired skill using a controller from using aim assist in other console games. Playing with both I have come to the understanding with a keyboard mouse I can perform a 360 rotation 2 if not 3 times faster then with a ds3. The strafing mechanics with a keyboard are far superior to ds3 allowing movement speed to constantly be at 100%. Target aquisition is improved because of these 2 factors allowing for quicker response time to a situation. Only thing I found hindering with a mouse is the equipment wheel. I do believe being a logi with KB/m is a nightmare. When using KB/M have you ever noticed how horrible hit detection is? Specifically with the SCP, really, I can empty a whole clip into someone with that thing and they wont take damage. Fatal Absolution Operation - LVL 5 Fatal Absolution Pro. - LVL 5 FOTM Abuser, outta mah way Nyain San!
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1004	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:57:00 - [12] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: When using KB/M have you ever noticed how horrible hit detection is? Specifically with the SCP, really, I can empty a whole clip into someone with that thing and they wont take damage. I have on multiple occasions. I often term it 'fighting the mouse' which is what I do half the time with KB/M. For the record, I use KB/M for Infantry at least 70% of the time. I switch to Controller for Vehicle Play, however. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
Spartacus Dust The-Legionnaires 88	Posted - 2014.02.03 10:20:00 - [13] - Quote I have to agree, it's mostly to balance the ps3 controllers vs the mouse and keyboard guys. Mouse and Keyboard performs better than a controller. So I think Aim assist should stick around. Me personally I use a ps3 controller, but I also use a Mass Driver, so I don't benefit from aim assist considering each shot must be arched at just the right angle. (Side note: made up statistic but you get the idea, 9 times out of 10, you didn't die because of aim assist or because he had a mouse and a keyboard, it's usually a case of bad communication, poor teamwork, and poor tactics.) Twitter @Matthew_Dust Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 287	Posted - 2014.02.03 10:32:00 - [14] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: 3. Remove M&KB altogether and concentrate purely on making the game as good as possible with the DS3. If I'm brutally honest this would be my preferred option. That being said, I know that we can't put the genie back in the bottle. I just wish CCP had had the balls to own the decision fully when they went console, just use the DS3 and not pander to the QQ'ing that happened.. Do this, and CCP loses me perm from both Eve Online and Dust.
Yokal Bob G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 338	Posted - 2014.02.03 10:43:00 - [15] - Quote The removal of kb/m is something that would destroy this game, I do not endorse its removal CPM1 candidate I want my logi tank back
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 928	Posted - 2014.02.03 12:05:00 - [16] - Quote I think we're all agreed then. Autoaim has to stay in some form. Might need some adjustment but has to stay. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2395	Posted - 2014.02.03 12:47:00 - [17] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: 1. Remove auto aim. If this is done, then M&KB users MUST accept that they will have to be nerfed in some way. The DS3 users wouldn't stand a chance against them otherwise and as the vast majority of players use the DS3 they should not be penalised. We need more players coming in the game, not less. False, as a gamepad user who has played competitively vs KB/m users in PC games, that's just false. The only limitation ds3 users have is unaquired skill using a controller from using aim assist in other console games. The DS3 does not have any fine movement ability. To get an exact placement you have to do a broader sweep and time your release of the joystick so that it stopes exactly where you want it. This is sort of like trying to hit a target with a Bow & Arrow while standing on a spinning marry-go-round. If you are as good with the DS3 as others are with the Keyboard & Mouse it is because you have mastered a workaround, not because the DS3 is at all competitive with the Mouse for fine motor control. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 931	Posted - 2014.02.03 13:13:00 - [18] - Quote Agreed Fox. And with the best will in the world it's pretty much agreed by all that the DS3 was the worst controller of the last gen. And not by a little. It is woeful compared to the 360's. I just wish Razor would make a PS3 version of this. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Knight Soiaire Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 4916	Posted - 2014.02.03 14:22:00 - [19] - Quote How would everyone feel about just reducing AA to Aim Friction? Which basically only slows down the movement of your crosshairs / sight as it passes over an enemy. Fatal Absolution Operation - LVL 5 Fatal Absolution Pro. - LVL 5 FOTM Abuser, outta mah way Nyain San!
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1099	Posted - 2014.02.03 14:46:00 - [20] - Quote While I feel that TTK may need adjustments in this game, I do not feel that it is an adequate usage of CCP's time right now. I think that their teams need to be focused on expanding this game beyond a lobby shooter and a weak PC component to make it more rewarding for players new and old alike. Focusing on tweaking this game means that it has reached the majority of what it should be and we all know that it is not the case. This game has very limited options when compared to EVE. Working on expanding the NPE and developing PVE should be the main goals of developers. I feel that players can live with some slight issues with imbalance if they feel that their gaming experience overall is more rewarding. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+

Appia Vibbia Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 909	Posted - 2014.02.03 15:16:00 - [21] - Quote I have a Minmatar Scout with 224 ehp and a Gallente Scout with 249 ehp. The improved aim assist killed speed tanking, for this I despise it. Aim assist greatly improved hit-detection on all but 4 of my weapons. For this, I love it. Aim assist does not affect my sniper rifle, mass driver, plasma cannon, or flaylock pistol. For this, I am indifferent to it. I think it needs to be reduced to the point that it does not actually move your reticle. It should definitely help when aiming down sights as precision movement with the DS3 can be difficult with current controller sensitivity. It should be significantly reduced to the point of it being unnoticeable by players when hip-firing. As far as aim friction goes, that would be much better on a KB/M than it would the DS3. I forgot the term for it, but because there is something like acceleration on your right analogue stick that small precise movements are very difficult with the current control style. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 [email protected] (checked every Monday morning)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2398	Posted - 2014.02.03 15:58:00 - [22] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Agreed Fox. And with the best will in the world it's pretty much agreed by all that the DS3 was the worst controller of the last gen. And not by a little. It is woeful compared to the 360's. I just wish Razor would make a PS3 version of this. I was squadded with someone who was using a DS4 controller to play dust. You have to use a USB cord, and need a DS3 for the Start and one other button, but otherwise it works, and he said it was vastly better than the DS3. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Radar R4D-47 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 419	Posted - 2014.02.03 16:01:00 - [23] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Agreed Fox. And with the best will in the world it's pretty much agreed by all that the DS3 was the worst controller of the last gen. And not by a little. It is woeful compared to the 360's. I just wish Razor would make a PS3 version of this. I was squadded with someone who was using a DS4 controller to play dust. You have to use a USB cord, and need a DS3 for the Start and one other button, but otherwise it works, and he said it was vastly better than the DS3. Actually I use my DS4 regularly. The only button that doesn't translate over is the PS button. It is definetly superior in every way to the ds3 but new things often are.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 413	Posted - 2014.02.03 16:53:00 - [24] - Quote let me tell you about the bull crap known as Aim assist in this game. Aim assist can turn a bad player into a decent one, it can also turn a bad player using FOTM into an above average player. this has been proven to me many times when i go teamkilling in faction warfare. Aim assist makes all the core functions of this game obsolete, doesn't matter how fast you are, doesn't matter if you have the better aim, doesn't matter if you use cover, the only thing that matters now is how many armor and damage mods you got. I truly want AA removed from the game, but i know that would only hurt the casual player base. My suggestion is disable AA for all competitive game modes such as PC and FW. However, AA does need to be tone down a lot regardless of which direction CCP decides to take. There should be no reason i am aiming down the sight and i stay on target without having to touch my left stick. Not even COD does that for you. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2404	Posted - 2014.02.04 16:17:00 - [25] - Quote I like fatalistic people who think that AA will track them no matter what they do, so they just stand there without strafing or jumping. People like that are much easier to kill. Unfortunately a lot of people have realized that you donGÇÖt have to move very far to break the AA lock, and they do annoying things like large strafes, and jumping over my line of fire. It is so inconsiderate of them to make me track them manually! It may be that AA is tuned a little too strong, but it would be a mistake to think it is god mode. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1327	Posted - 2014.02.04 16:19:00 - [26] - Quote The problem is that in a fight between an AA user and a non-AA user, gear often does not matter. The AA user will win because a lot less bullets will miss. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2409	Posted - 2014.02.05 11:05:00 - [27] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The problem is that in a fight between an AA user and a non-AA user, gear often does not matter. The AA user will win because a lot less bullets will miss. At this point the one who shoots first will win regardless, and now we are back to TTK. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2409	Posted - 2014.02.05 13:17:00 - [28] - Quote The biggest problem I see with the current AA is, as the video illustrated, that aim actually improves if you take your thumb off the joystick and let Jesus take the wheel. When I saw the Aim-Bot video I thought to myself, GÇ£wait a minute, I donGÇÖt see that in my day to day game play.GÇ¥ So I tested it. If there is a cluster of 3 reds huddled together for warmth at about 15m away I will have to adjust my aim for each one and several rounds will miss as I make the adjustment. Often one of them will survive long enough to turn around and kill me, or one or two will get away. But if I just aim for the cluster and take my thumb off the joystick all three will go down fast without me making any adjustments. That part does need to be fixed. Maybe the aim assist gets stronger the closer the joystick gets to the zero point or something, because if you take your thumb off the controller it become an aim-bot that operates within a tight cone, but even a tight cone gets broader with greater distance. If AA was set to deactivate when the joy stick was in its neutral position that would dramatically reduce the effect of Aim-Bot. The purpose of AA is to overcome the deficiencies of the controller in making fine adjustments, not to aim for you. It may also be as Kevall suggested, that because AA was brought in at the same time as the hit detection fixes it was tuned to compensate for conditions before the hit detection fix. I am fine with AA being toned down a little, and I think it should deactivate when the joy stick is in the neutral position, but without AA Keyboard and Mouse users have a massive advantage over DS3 users, as was proven in 1.0 through 1.4. Without AA the only people who would be good with the DS3 would be people who can shoot an arow straight while standing on a spinning marry-go-round. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1125	Posted - 2014.02.05 14:06:00 - [29] - Quote I thought of something last night about AA. This was just brainstorming but I would like opinions on it. What if AA was variable? What if, the faster your target was moving, the weaker the assist? Specifically the function that keeps the crosshair on target. It would not hinder you from manual aim, it just wouldnt help you as much. One of the things that this game is missing is speed tanking and it is the scouts that suffer. This would apply to all suits based upon the speed that they are traveling. Thoughts? Canari Elphus for CPM1
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2416	Posted - 2014.02.05 18:18:00 - [30] - Quote It definitely is an option to consider. But instead of it getting weaker if the target is moving faster, give the aim-bot a speed penalty. Have the automated adjustments move at a slower speed so that you would have to manually track to keep up with a moving target. Speed tanking is still possible against a HMG Heavy. In 1.3 they announced that they removed the movement penalty from Heavy suits so that they could turn as fast as Medium frame suits. What they did not mention was that they did not change the movement penalty for holding an HMG. So Scouts and many Assault suits can effectively speed tank against an HMG even with Aim Assist. They just have to move far enough to break the AA lock. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014



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