9/10 Would Eat Again, but a bit too much salt.

Removing the redline would make this game 100% unplayable for new players, as well as causing people to quit the second they are redlined.

So then how else can the redline be fixed?

The redline is a shield so if you fire at it the projectile does not pass through it goes for all weapons you can still enter the redlie and shoot in from within but you have to cross it to do damage. Rails are fine they just need an ROF nerf It takes 3 shots to kill an Incubis (that's armor right) without damage mods so the damage mods will need some reworking. And 100% agree on huge passive bonuses.

So then how else can the redline be fixed?

Red-lines should be giant Shield barriers extended from the Warbarge done in a very New Eden way. Being behind the shield barrier doesn't allow you to shoot out of it and or receive fire from within. Allowing red-lined teams to full respawn, call in appropriate vehicles and dropships, group up and push out of the red-line and gives that side a fighting chance to come back.

The shield should only allow one pass through, meaning once you leave the safety of the shield barrier it cannot recognize you independently and let you run back into the red-line. Because the red-line shield barrier wouldn't allow damage to pass through from either side it will also nullify a lot of the players who choose to spend 80% of their game time in the red-line not contributing to their team, or truly getting the New Eden Experience of competition in the battlefield as they are not fully on it.

Furthermore if you are in the red-line for 2 minutes+ they can just blanket kick everyone from the match... Stopping the AFK in a "safe area" that hurts both sides of competition. It's of course not the players fault they take advantage of this, the blame lies with CCP.

[Another way, would be fall-off damage. You do x% of damage in your optimal and/or effective ranges, but anywhere outside of this will result in a loss of damage. This will prevent Rails from being an "Automatic Sniper Rifle-Shotgun Hybrid." that everyone loves to use it as.

Change rail gun ranges. Lower damage per shot. Problem solved.

I apologize for my earlier posts, stating that rails were fine and dropships would kill everything if we didn't exist; I now see that what I said is the same thing that AV said to me prior 1.7-

Before 1.7, I could still get 30:0 games IF THERE WAS NO AV.

On the same note, hard counters are good, but a hard counter should not be a metaphorical brick wall against a balloon.

Dropships have excellent anti-infantry capability, and if we're supposed to be getting gunships/bombers soon(TM), then I don't see a need to give the turrets with the power of large turrets to kill tanks (hopeful).

Of course, a single ADS can defeat any tank as long as it has no support, is not in the redline, and the ADS can get into its cone of silence (for lack of a better term).

This is an imbalance, for sure.

I can see that swarms and forges have the power to push of most dropship pilots, except when its an ADS swarm, but tanks swat them out of the sky (rails, specifically, like it isn't even cool.)

A more elegant solution is to get rid of the redline. Perhaps, any shots fired within the redline count for 0% damage, or remove it altogether.

This issue also has to do with large turrets in general- blasters DESTROY even the heaviest sentinal and a militia rail can take out even a double hardened gunlogi rather quickly, let alone one who has no idea it is being sighted.

Seeing as tanks have plenty of...tank, I'd say that a large turret (rails and blasters) need a nerf so that the blaster slaughters infantry a little slower, and the rail doesn't OHK every dropship short of a double-hardened Grimsnes.

I also understand that the damage mods contribute to this, however, they are not the issue. 1800 damage from an unmodded rail is obscene. I could understand that type of damage of it required a 5x SP multipler at lvl 5 to acheive, but the way it is, I do not like it. Tanks, as they stand now, should be proto-tanks with maxed out passive skills.

So, yes, the vehicle skill tree needs to be redone, again, so it is similar to chromosome. However, I like the new way tanks function (waves of opportunity). At the same time, tanks, turrets, and vehicle modules need a massive nerf, so that only by investing to lvl 5 on all passive skills, can they be this powerful. A tank, ONLY WHEN FULLY SPECCED, should be as powerful as they are now. That may come off as an elitest remark to many of you, but frankly, I don't care. Infantry are very well rewarded for passive investments on modules, suits, weapons, and core upgrades- tanks are not. At the end of the day, I can max every skill I want to on my gunlogi and I can fit a plate or twp, extra- doesn't count for much considering that the same amount of SP invested (roughly 16 million) could bring a protosuit from an overpriced coffin to a death machine that even a large blaster would have to concentrate fire on to destroy.

TLDR?:

The power tanks have ruins the balance of power on the battlefield. Infantry are segregated to CQC, dropships are only truly useful in PC, and the SP investment to lvl 5 vehicle core/prof skills is not worth the cost.

Revive Chrome skill tree.
Nerf large turrets and modules for vehicles.
Keep 'waves of opportunity' concept.

You just gave me an idea for a redlining solution:

The yellow zone.

The yellow zone can be accessed by both teams without a timer, and borders the orange zone (let's call the spawn red-zone the orange zone)
If you are in the enemy yellow zone, you don't get WP.
If you are in your team's orange zone, you don't get WP; UNLESS the person you kill is in the yellow zone.
Turret AI will not fire at anything in the green (normal) zone unless it has entered the orange zone.

Problem solved.

So then how else can the redline be fixed?

So then how else can the redline be fixed?

Redline could be fixed by having it behind hills and whatnot. In order to see anything to shoot at, you must leave the redline. This makes you vulnerable to counterattack.

Tanks need to be slower. Escape shouldn't be easy for a tank. IT needs to rely on its hp an resistances to survive. Escape is the realm of LAVs

Only one hardener per vehicle. Force that window of opportunity to close. Tanks should be indestructible when hardeners are up. They should be killable while hardeners are down. Permahardened gunnlogis are gamebreaking. Again, force that window of opportunity to close.

There should be the same uptime and cooldown for hardeners among the tiers. Resistance should increase as you go up from MLT to PRO. A proto hardener should let you tank railguns with moderate ease. Militia hardeners should make you more resistant, but easier to kill than a proto tank.

Reduce all large turret damage by 25%. Give the large turret skills a +5% to turret damage per level in addition to unlocking tiers. You want to wreck face, you better skill into it.

Tanks should be anti-vehicle. They should wreck face on LAVs, dropships, and other tanks. If they want to kill infantry, they should fit small turrets. IF they don't want to fit small turrets, then they should be very poor at killing infantry, and learn to deal with it.4

Dropships, assault dropships in particular, need to have their skill boost hardener efficiency and duration. Tanks an LAVs can hide easily. Dropships cannot. All they have for protection is their hardeners. Therefore, they should get better use out of them than other vehicles.

Put a hill in front of it.

Problem with that is that it makes it easier to redline because now the redzone is inside a bowl. Redlining would be even worse than it is now, as any vehicle getting called in will get railgunned and infantry will shoot at spawning infantry.

Redzone needs to be removed entirely while adding in defenses.

Redline could be fixed by having it behind hills and whatnot. In order to see anything to shoot at, you must leave the redline. This makes you vulnerable to counterattack.

Tanks need to be slower. Escape shouldn't be easy for a tank. IT needs to rely on its hp an resistances to survive. Escape is the realm of LAVs

Only one hardener per vehicle. Force that window of opportunity to close. Tanks should be indestructible when hardeners are up. They should be killable while hardeners are down. Permahardened gunnlogis are gamebreaking. Again, force that window of opportunity to close.

There should be the same uptime and cooldown for hardeners among the tiers. Resistance should increase as you go up from MLT to PRO. A proto hardener should let you tank railguns with moderate ease. Militia hardeners should make you more resistant, but easier to kill than a proto tank.

Reduce all large turret damage by 25%. Give the large turret skills a +5% to turret damage per level in addition to unlocking tiers. You want to wreck face, you better skill into it.

Tanks should be anti-vehicle. They should wreck face on LAVs, dropships, and other tanks. If they want to kill infantry, they should fit small turrets. IF they don't want to fit small turrets, then they should be very poor at killing infantry, and learn to deal with it.4

Dropships, assault dropships in particular, need to have their skill boost hardener efficiency and duration. Tanks an LAVs can hide easily. Dropships cannot. All they have for protection is their hardeners. Therefore, they should get better use out of them than other vehicles.

Large Turrets need to be able to reload. Can Large Blaster Turrets overheat as well?
I was just on one last night and can't remember for the life of me.

I apologize for my earlier posts, stating that rails were fine and dropships would kill everything if we didn't exist; I now see that what I said is the same thing that AV said to me prior 1.7-

Before 1.7, I could still get 30:0 games IF THERE WAS NO AV.

On the same note, hard counters are good, but a hard counter should not be a metaphorical brick wall against a balloon.

Dropships have excellent anti-infantry capability, and if we're supposed to be getting gunships/bombers soon(TM), then I don't see a need to give the turrets with the power of large turrets to kill tanks (hopeful).

Of course, a single ADS can defeat any tank as long as it has no support, is not in the redline, and the ADS can get into its cone of silence (for lack of a better term).

This is an imbalance, for sure.

I can see that swarms and forges have the power to push of most dropship pilots, except when its an ADS swarm, but tanks swat them out of the sky (rails, specifically, like it isn't even cool.)

A more elegant solution is to get rid of the redline. Perhaps, any shots fired within the redline count for 0% damage, or remove it altogether.

This issue also has to do with large turrets in general- blasters DESTROY even the heaviest sentinal and a militia rail can take out even a double hardened gunlogi rather quickly, let alone one who has no idea it is being sighted.

Seeing as tanks have plenty of...tank, I'd say that a large turret (rails and blasters) need a nerf so that the blaster slaughters infantry a little slower, and the rail doesn't OHK every dropship short of a double-hardened Grimsnes.

I also understand that the damage mods contribute to this, however, they are not the issue. 1800 damage from an unmodded rail is obscene. I could understand that type of damage of it required a 5x SP multipler at lvl 5 to acheive, but the way it is, I do not like it. Tanks, as they stand now, should be proto-tanks with maxed out passive skills.

So, yes, the vehicle skill tree needs to be redone, again, so it is similar to chromosome. However, I like the new way tanks function (waves of opportunity). At the same time, tanks, turrets, and vehicle modules need a massive nerf, so that only by investing to lvl 5 on all passive skills, can they be this powerful. A tank, ONLY WHEN FULLY SPECCED, should be as powerful as they are now. That may come off as an elitest remark to many of you, but frankly, I don't care. Infantry are very well rewarded for passive investments on modules, suits, weapons, and core upgrades- tanks are not. At the end of the day, I can max every skill I want to on my gunlogi and I can fit a plate or twp, extra- doesn't count for much considering that the same amount of SP invested (roughly 16 million) could bring a protosuit from an overpriced coffin to a death machine that even a large blaster would have to concentrate fire on to destroy.

TLDR?:

The power tanks have ruins the balance of power on the battlefield. Infantry are segregated to CQC, dropships are only truly useful in PC, and the SP investment to lvl 5 vehicle core/prof skills is not worth the cost.

Revive Chrome skill tree.
Nerf large turrets and modules for vehicles.
Keep 'waves of opportunity' concept.