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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1427
   |
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:51:00 -
[91] - Quote
Hey, I've suggested before something that I thought was more than reasonable.
MLT AV v STD HAV == 4 guys working together, each providing a full clip
STD AV v STD HAV == 3 guys working together, each providing a full clip
ADV AV v STD HAV == 2 guys working together, each providing a full clip
PRO AV v STD HAV == 1 guy emptying a clip
PRO AV v PRO HAV == 3 guys working together, each providing a full clip
ADV AV v PRO HAV == 4 guys working together, each providing a full clip
STD AV v PRO HAV == 5 guys working together, each providing a full clip
MLT AV v PRO HAV == 6 guys working together, each providing a full clip
Emptying a clip/providing a full clip should be taken to mean firing a full clip of ammo from Forge/Swarms or utilizing all three AV grenades carried.
It scales dependent on the tiers involved, looking above, a single guy with ADV AV should be able to "one clip" a MLT HAV. Conversely, an ADV HAV should require 2 guys with PRO AV each providing a full clip. PRO AV should OHK MLT HAV. Keep in mind, this doesn't factor in Damage Mods/Proficiency, just the basic weapon vs the stock HAV. The formula can be modified for extenders/hardeners/plates and damage mods/proficiency.
I think that this would be nicely balanced taking into account the differences in tiers (also understanding that at current we only have MLT/STD HAV).
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
136
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:54:00 -
[92] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Hey, I've suggested before something that I thought was more than reasonable.
MLT AV v STD HAV == 4 guys working together, each providing a full clip
STD AV v STD HAV == 3 guys working together, each providing a full clip
ADV AV v STD HAV == 2 guys working together, each providing a full clip
PRO AV v STD HAV == 1 guy emptying a clip
PRO AV v PRO HAV == 3 guys working together, each providing a full clip
ADV AV v PRO HAV == 4 guys working together, each providing a full clip
STD AV v PRO HAV == 5 guys working together, each providing a full clip
MLT AV v PRO HAV == 6 guys working together, each providing a full clip
Emptying a clip/providing a full clip should be taken to mean firing a full clip of ammo from Forge/Swarms or utilizing all three AV grenades carried.
It scales dependent on the tiers involved, looking above, a single guy with ADV AV should be able to "one clip" a MLT HAV. Conversely, an ADV HAV should require 2 guys with PRO AV each providing a full clip. PRO AV should OHK MLT HAV. Keep in mind, this doesn't factor in Damage Mods/Proficiency, just the basic weapon vs the stock HAV. The formula can be modified for extenders/hardeners/plates and damage mods/proficiency.
I think that this would be nicely balanced taking into account the differences in tiers (also understanding that at current we only have MLT/STD HAV).
for the most part thats about the way it is anyway I'm not endorsing the new militia tanks but at the same time they are no wheres near a threat unless they a redline dmg modded railgun tank and even then I can normally handle them but this is coming from a tanker however buff av would buff it across the board what you basicly want here would be to weaken the militia tanks which I think should be done just not to big as they are weak as it is |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
97
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Posted - 2014.01.30 09:14:00 -
[93] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:does anyone understand that av stands for anti vehicle? tanks arent supposed to withstand av. av is supposed to be overpowered against tanks. thats its role, tanks and dropships are op against infantry, and infantry are op against the guy who cant defend himself while using av weapons. they never should have been nerfed in 1.7
this is "mmo" afterall, learn your combat triangles. av > v > I > av
a milita swarm launcher should be able to solo any milita tank or dropship that appears. no thats an MMORPG theres a big difference between then and your whole statement is invald cause 1 I can solo a tank with av right now but thats not the point the fact is more than 1 person can use av no problem but they don't use it like they should throwing militia or stnd swarms at a tank isn't gonna harm him as much buffing AV will not only be stupid but make tanks like last build no longer around or do you like having redline tanks because with your statement thats what your asking for right now I can get my proto swarm with prof lvl 3 and 3 complex dmg mods and own a tank by myself like nothing and you want to buff it when it's something anyone and almost everyone has normally its 2-3 people hititng a tank with militia or std swarms so what if it was 2-3 with avd or proto swarms the tank wouldn't stand a chance so buffing the av isn't needed if your not willing to actually try and spead some isk to kill a tank you won't get teh results you want how is an mmorpg different from this? balance is balance. fundamentals need to be balanced. the starter av suit should be able to kill starter tanks. its common sense. you shouldnt need a chainsaw to cut through butter. But what you ain't grasping is buffing the av weapons will unbalance the game again and actually I don't think someone even with starter swarms should be able to solo a starter tank because just like the guy in the tank you with your starter suit which you didn't skill into so why should you be able to own someone who didn't skill into the tank with a starter av suit when you yourself didn't skill into it and not to mention the fact that it's called a start suit for a reason and militia weapons were mean't to be test weapons so that you can try them out so while yes they have more hp and such and I don't know about the price but they still useless anyway but what i'm saying is if you skilled into AV you won't have to much issues with vehicles what I gave you was a test and a example that av is perfectly fine the way it is now when it comes to the price of militia I would say it should at least be 150k for milita tanks but I think the main issue is most don';t fit anything on those tanks that they cost so little
because av is the counter to v, if this is how its supposed to be it should take 3 milita tanks to kill my suit. ive got skillppoints into command, core, and weapons. why should someone who hasnt specced into tanks be allowed to own me with a milita blaster that by your own definiton is a test weapon. make it take 3 soma blaster to kill my assault suit then. then itll be the same as needing 3 swarm launchers to kill a soma.
ffs its called ANTI vehicle. its supposed to out perform vehicles. |
Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
136
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:26:00 -
[94] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:does anyone understand that av stands for anti vehicle? tanks arent supposed to withstand av. av is supposed to be overpowered against tanks. thats its role, tanks and dropships are op against infantry, and infantry are op against the guy who cant defend himself while using av weapons. they never should have been nerfed in 1.7
this is "mmo" afterall, learn your combat triangles. av > v > I > av
a milita swarm launcher should be able to solo any milita tank or dropship that appears. no thats an MMORPG theres a big difference between then and your whole statement is invald cause 1 I can solo a tank with av right now but thats not the point the fact is more than 1 person can use av no problem but they don't use it like they should throwing militia or stnd swarms at a tank isn't gonna harm him as much buffing AV will not only be stupid but make tanks like last build no longer around or do you like having redline tanks because with your statement thats what your asking for right now I can get my proto swarm with prof lvl 3 and 3 complex dmg mods and own a tank by myself like nothing and you want to buff it when it's something anyone and almost everyone has normally its 2-3 people hititng a tank with militia or std swarms so what if it was 2-3 with avd or proto swarms the tank wouldn't stand a chance so buffing the av isn't needed if your not willing to actually try and spead some isk to kill a tank you won't get teh results you want how is an mmorpg different from this? balance is balance. fundamentals need to be balanced. the starter av suit should be able to kill starter tanks. its common sense. you shouldnt need a chainsaw to cut through butter. But what you ain't grasping is buffing the av weapons will unbalance the game again and actually I don't think someone even with starter swarms should be able to solo a starter tank because just like the guy in the tank you with your starter suit which you didn't skill into so why should you be able to own someone who didn't skill into the tank with a starter av suit when you yourself didn't skill into it and not to mention the fact that it's called a start suit for a reason and militia weapons were mean't to be test weapons so that you can try them out so while yes they have more hp and such and I don't know about the price but they still useless anyway but what i'm saying is if you skilled into AV you won't have to much issues with vehicles what I gave you was a test and a example that av is perfectly fine the way it is now when it comes to the price of militia I would say it should at least be 150k for milita tanks but I think the main issue is most don';t fit anything on those tanks that they cost so little because av is the counter to v, if this is how its supposed to be it should take 3 milita tanks to kill my suit. ive got skillppoints into command, core, and weapons. why should someone who hasnt specced into tanks be allowed to own me with a milita blaster that by your own definiton is a test weapon. make it take 3 soma blaster to kill my assault suit then itll be the same as needing 3 swarm launchers to kill a soma. its called ANTI vehicle for a reason. its supposed to out perform vehicles.
ok how about this lets make it so a sniper which is the counter for infantry able to 1shot every infantry even a heavy no matter where he shot you even if it was the foot would you like that cause thats basicly what will happen if they buff AV now if I remember right people spammed proto AV alot to completely pwn tanks in 1.6 so now that AV was nerfed a little and vehicles was rembalanced why is it that the proto AVers are gone cause if people were AVing like they were in the last build they would be taking on tanks like they were last build there used to be so many who would bring out proto av kill the tanks and go back to what they were doing but after seeing the nerf which really wasn't after what they did to vehicles they all stopped coming with proto
because not much would have changed if the players were still spamming proto AV weapons like they were in last build |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:
no thats an MMORPG theres a big difference between then and your whole statement is invald cause 1 I can solo a tank with av right now but thats not the point the fact is more than 1 person can use av no problem but they don't use it like they should throwing militia or stnd swarms at a tank isn't gonna harm him as much buffing AV will not only be stupid but make tanks like last build no longer around or do you like having redline tanks because with your statement thats what your asking for right now I can get my proto swarm with prof lvl 3 and 3 complex dmg mods and own a tank by myself like nothing and you want to buff it when it's something anyone and almost everyone has normally its 2-3 people hititng a tank with militia or std swarms so what if it was 2-3 with avd or proto swarms the tank wouldn't stand a chance so buffing the av isn't needed if your not willing to actually try and spead some isk to kill a tank you won't get teh results you want
how is an mmorpg different from this? balance is balance. fundamentals need to be balanced. the starter av suit should be able to kill starter tanks. its common sense. you shouldnt need a chainsaw to cut through butter. But what you ain't grasping is buffing the av weapons will unbalance the game again and actually I don't think someone even with starter swarms should be able to solo a starter tank because just like the guy in the tank you with your starter suit which you didn't skill into so why should you be able to own someone who didn't skill into the tank with a starter av suit when you yourself didn't skill into it and not to mention the fact that it's called a start suit for a reason and militia weapons were mean't to be test weapons so that you can try them out so while yes they have more hp and such and I don't know about the price but they still useless anyway but what i'm saying is if you skilled into AV you won't have to much issues with vehicles what I gave you was a test and a example that av is perfectly fine the way it is now when it comes to the price of militia I would say it should at least be 150k for milita tanks but I think the main issue is most don';t fit anything on those tanks that they cost so little because av is the counter to v, if this is how its supposed to be it should take 3 milita tanks to kill my suit. ive got skillppoints into command, core, and weapons. why should someone who hasnt specced into tanks be allowed to own me with a milita blaster that by your own definiton is a test weapon. make it take 3 soma blaster to kill my assault suit then itll be the same as needing 3 swarm launchers to kill a soma. its called ANTI vehicle for a reason. its supposed to out perform vehicles. ok how about this lets make it so a sniper which is the counter for infantry able to 1shot every infantry even a heavy no matter where he shot you even if it was the foot would you like that cause thats basicly what will happen if they buff AV now if I remember right people spammed proto AV alot to completely pwn tanks in 1.6 so now that AV was nerfed a little and vehicles was rembalanced why is it that the proto AVers are gone cause if people were AVing like they were in the last build they would be taking on tanks like they were last build there used to be so many who would bring out proto av kill the tanks and go back to what they were doing but after seeing the nerf which really wasn't after what they did to vehicles they all stopped coming with proto because not much would have changed if the players were still spamming proto AV weapons like they were in last build
so you agree that it should take 3 or more somas working together to kill any infantry suit if it takes 3 people to kill a milita tank?
theres no more proto av because it doesn't do anything so theres no point bringing it out. laidais and swarms were nerfed into obscurity. forge guns are the ony viable av left and i doubt most players have an extra few million sp laying around to go into fancy sentinels with proto forge guns with proficiencies.
sniper rifles are an entirely different situation of broken, dont try to change the subject.
if your saying a milita tank is meant to be killed by 3 or more avers, why should it not take 3 or more militia tanks, militia dropships or any combination of the two to kill a suit that not only costs more ISK but has a much greater sp allocation cost?
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
137
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:52:00 -
[96] - Quote
I can tell you ain't paying attention because saying proto AV doesn't do anything makes me wonder if you have even used any because if you can't kill a tank with proto AV your beyond help I can kill tanks with proto swarms hell I been doing it all night I got proto swarm with prof lvl 3 not even lvl 5 with 3 complex dmg mods and I can kill or scare the hell out of a tank and making it so 3 soma's with is what it takes to kill infantry then it couldn't be called a tank in the first place you seemt o forget in real life and on games tanks are gonna destroy infantry that alows themself to be its not that hard to avoid a tank |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:I can tell you ain't paying attention because saying proto AV doesn't do anything makes me wonder if you have even used any because if you can't kill a tank with proto AV your beyond help I can kill tanks with proto swarms hell I been doing it all night I got proto swarm with prof lvl 3 not even lvl 5 with 3 complex dmg mods and I can kill or scare the hell out of a tank and making it so 3 soma's with is what it takes to kill infantry then it couldn't be called a tank in the first place you seemt o forget in real life and on games tanks are gonna destroy infantry that alows themself to be its not that hard to avoid a tank
so your saying miltia tanks should be soloed by milita swarms?
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
137
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:12:00 -
[98] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:I can tell you ain't paying attention because saying proto AV doesn't do anything makes me wonder if you have even used any because if you can't kill a tank with proto AV your beyond help I can kill tanks with proto swarms hell I been doing it all night I got proto swarm with prof lvl 3 not even lvl 5 with 3 complex dmg mods and I can kill or scare the hell out of a tank and making it so 3 soma's with is what it takes to kill infantry then it couldn't be called a tank in the first place you seemt o forget in real life and on games tanks are gonna destroy infantry that alows themself to be its not that hard to avoid a tank so your saying miltia tanks should be soloed by milita swarms?
yeah i'm done it's like arguing to a child who ain't getting his way |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:21:00 -
[99] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:I can tell you ain't paying attention because saying proto AV doesn't do anything makes me wonder if you have even used any because if you can't kill a tank with proto AV your beyond help I can kill tanks with proto swarms hell I been doing it all night I got proto swarm with prof lvl 3 not even lvl 5 with 3 complex dmg mods and I can kill or scare the hell out of a tank and making it so 3 soma's with is what it takes to kill infantry then it couldn't be called a tank in the first place you seemt o forget in real life and on games tanks are gonna destroy infantry that alows themself to be its not that hard to avoid a tank so your saying miltia tanks should be soloed by milita swarms? yeah i'm done it's like arguing to a child who ain't getting his way
well your argument was nonsense anyway so go take a breather. av solos tanks, tanks solo infantry, and infantry solo av. you shouldnt need proto av to solo milita tanks. thats a balanced combat triangle in an mmo and dust is an mmo. |
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