DUST Search - Cloaking vs Everything else

Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:

Its difficult to speculate when a piece of equipment is being added that behaves like no other in the game.
Its also a very VISUAL effect, so any speculation as to its power and effectiveness is completely misguided with the information we have.

I'm running scout like I have always done, so no FOTM for me.
As to changing playstyle for equipment? - Well can any scout honestly say that the lack of ability to hide their health bars has not cost them dozens of suits. Or that enemy vision precision popping them on the TACNET no matter how well dampened they are rendering their bonus completely useless.

Hows this for a simply question - How many scouts do you know willingly play on Manus Peak, with its very limited cover between points? Not many. They're just too exposed.

I think the best analogy we can draw from the cloaks effectiveness is its comparison to stamina usage. It won't allow us to stay hidden indefinitely and no other actions are available, therefore it will be used to cover ground, getting to an ideal position and enable a safer escape once a task is complete. It isn't the goal (the goal is to use equipment or get to a position) the cloak is merely a means to get there and counter repercussions. The inherent gameplay wont change.

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KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3946	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:20:00 - [1] - Quote So , as it is it seems many players are going to blindly get Cloaks and scouts because it seems it will be the new FOTM. It will be the new FOTM, for a little while that is......... The thing is, due to high CPU and PG requirements , a scout suit might be needed. A Scout suit is NOT a med frame, its not a Heavy frame. People are USED to having high HP values, usually 500 or MORE. Are you REALLY going to CHANGE you playstyle for a piece of equipment? This is not sarcastic, its an ACTUAL question. After 1.8 we will have the suits with their bonuses: Heavies Sentinels : High HP / Bonus Defensive Heavies Commandos: Double Light weapon / Bonus Offensive + Reload speed Assaults: Battlefield versatility / Bonus to Modules + Offensive Logis: Equipment Versatility / Bonus to equipment and equipment fitting cost (ALSO HELP THE CLOAK) Scouts: E-war + Speed / Bonus to cloaks and different Scout Strengths enhanced So...People saying logis will be useless forget they still get a 25% reduction in CPU and PG for cloaks,making the new Logis More viable. People Forget the 1 sec reloads the commandos will have plus damage mod Bonuses. Dont forget the 1300+ RoF of Assault Combat rifles and those 25% Armor/Shield module efficiency the GAl/Cal will get, or the 15% resistance that heavy has to your light weapon... Overall , this post is to tllthe story of Royal Distaster, an Alt i had which i gave a friend of mine so he could play dust with a higher SP level character. -He wanted to be a fast assault. He wanted to be able to avoid radars , at least basic ones. -I told him to get Profile dampening to level 5 and then equip a Cx Profile dampener on his med suit to avoid ADV scanners , which are more common.In the case the enmy had proto scanners, he could tank said med frame and have a better chance. -He said he didnt want to equip a profile dampener so he would just tank a scout. -He got Gk.0 scout -He tanked it (around 700+ HP) -He Destroyed in Pub matches (ARound 50-3 in some matches and he only had 8 mill SP, 5 K-D ratio consistency) Until one fateful day.... He played vs an Organized squad. -He Got scanned for the first time (Proto scanner) and he asked me why he got that message, i told him.Bro those are proto scanners, need to drop a Armor plate and equip a Dampener. He refused,.And got owned since every single enemy red knew where he was. He scout wasnt tanked enough to fight straight on with Med frames and not dampened enough to avoid them. NOR had enough into scanning to make the Passive radar work.MEd game he told me ,ok i'll drop an armor plate for the dampener. He the so delicisous ''SCan attempt prevented'' message , but with 120+ HP lost he just wouldnt win more battles! he now had around 550 HP and it wasnt enough for him to win. HE then got, ''You have been scanned'' message again.He looked at me with horror in his eyes.I told him,bro,you can have your Light assault with some radar performance and some dampening, but you'll never be as Profile dampened and E-War effective as TRUE SCOUTS , and wont be as Hard as an Assault nor have their Aggressive advantages (like having enough HP and speed to run from one objective to another)..... After i told him CCP would probably NEVER give out more respecs (He wanted an Assault), he left the game , forever.... Why do i tell you this short story? SPECIALLY if we get a Dropsuit Command respec, DO NOT SPEC into what you think the NEXT FOTM will be. This is NOT a weapon you can level up and just strap on your suit and keep going. This is a Whole new playstyle. The ''Light assaults'' everybody will want to use will work pretty well on pub matches, but wont be that good in PC where people specialize in stuff. Like say, a Gallente Logi with a Proto scanner? (and its 25% precision bonus?)...yeah... then while running butt naked with 400 HP (or less) while being followed by 900+ HP Amarr Gallentes you will regret not having skilled into something else. Cloaks will NOT be a Push to win button. They will be pretty common and they wont help while on cooldown and you have several MEd/Heavy frames behind you. My whole point is. Test stuff. Dont spend YOUR SP in a hurry like i always do and then get stuck with stuff that doesnt work how you thought it would.... GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
LEHON Xeon Pradox XVI Proficiency V. 110	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:38:00 - [2] - Quote I think came across a dev post that said that the logi equipment reduction skill wouldn't apply to cloaks. I'd put it in here but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Read it around 2:00 this morning It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3946	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:39:00 - [3] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: I think came across a dev post that said that the logi equipment reduction skill wouldn't apply to cloaks. I'd put it in here but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Read it around 2:00 this morning WOW Seriously? This is actually GOOD IMO.... GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 380	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:41:00 - [4] - Quote I think cloaks will be good for runnign from fights, around a corner, then back tracking and letting the chasing enemys run spast you whilst invisable, then shoot them in the back.
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3946	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:44:00 - [5] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: I think cloaks will be good for runnign from fights, around a corner, then back tracking and letting the chasing enemys run spast you whilst invisable, then shoot them in the back. Well actually, as a Full profile dampened SCOUT, this is the main reason i want it. Sneaking behind 1 enemy and killing him is Easy. Sneaking behind 2+ enemies , killing one of them and then running away is not.This is where cloaks come in IMO. GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Sick Metagamer Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:44:00 - [6] - Quote The REAL FOTM will be sentinel ck.o with a forge gun and 4 heavy weapon upgrades. Come on, look at all the HAVs out there, they are dying to be culled....
Azura Sakura Blood Eye Ravens 549	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:47:00 - [7] - Quote FOTM = Fun of the month? Because any new toy added to this game is going to be fun and break the stale **** we have now lol
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1220	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:48:00 - [8] - Quote as a scout I agree completely. I do what I do with 322 ehp(less than a starter fit). it's a completely different playstyle from the med frame game. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout. CLOSED BETA VET
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1968	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:51:00 - [9] - Quote don't worry, CCP is making scout ability harder to fit with increasing level. proto scout, lol bonus 75% more cost to adding a cloaking module. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bonus bonus Something given or paid in addition to what is usual or expected https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1730164#post1730164 15% bonus to CPU& PG cost of cloaking field per level. in addition to normal expected stats you expected you have even more cost to fittings. nice going ccp, i caught you, great idea, and place it on the bottom just to sneak it in. love it and should stay this way. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4119	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:02:00 - [10] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: FOTM = Fun of the month? Because any new toy added to this game is going to be fun and break the stale **** we have now lol This is a misconception, we have many weapons and playstyles that could break the mold, they how ever have been overwhelmed by the new TTK meaning you only see two from a good percentage of the playerbase: Brick tank and damage tank, running anything else is considered stupid at this point by most of the players, this is also part of the reason armor/rifles are favored because everyone wants to tank and take as little damage as possible while dishing out extreme amounts. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10270	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:16:00 - [11] - Quote Shotgun scout for days. I'll skill up cloaks for haha's and just to have, but I'll likely run remotes with nanohives to accommodate my solo nature. This is assuming a full infantry respec, of course. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2203	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:29:00 - [12] - Quote I have some sinister plans with those cloaks - and it won't be on a Scout. Natalie Portman.
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3951	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:44:00 - [13] - Quote ladwar wrote: don't worry, CCP is making scout ability harder to fit with increasing level. proto scout, lol bonus 75% more cost to adding a cloaking module. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bonus bonus Something given or paid in addition to what is usual or expected https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1730164#post1730164 15% bonus to CPU& PG cost of cloaking field per level. in addition to normal expected stats you expected you have even more cost to fittings. nice going ccp, i caught you, great idea, and place it on the bottom just to sneak it in. love it and should stay this way. I think you got the bonus all wrong. ITs supposed to DECREASE the usage of CPU-PG per level.. To my understanding, then again, having MORE fitting cost wouldnt make any sense. GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3951	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:46:00 - [14] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: as a scout I agree completely. I do what I do with 322 ehp(less than a starter fit). it's a completely different playstyle from the med frame game. I do with 204 EHP XD And its my best K-D ratio suit......... GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 1006	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:46:00 - [15] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: I think came across a dev post that said that the logi equipment reduction skill wouldn't apply to cloaks. I'd put it in here but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Read it around 2:00 this morning I want confirmation on this. It makes no since that they would do this. If true = {:)}{3GÇó>
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 447	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:48:00 - [16] - Quote I personally never thought about using cloaks for combat. I'm more of a facilitator on the battlefield and this will just make my job easier while feeling super cool at the same time. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making Proud Minmatar
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3952	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:50:00 - [17] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: I think came across a dev post that said that the logi equipment reduction skill wouldn't apply to cloaks. I'd put it in here but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Read it around 2:00 this morning I want confirmation on this. It makes no since that they would do this. If true = Yes it would make sense. Cloaking devices are Scout oriented. Same as Uplinks,Nanohives,repair tools and A.Scanners are Logi Equipment and they get bonus to fitting them plus bonus to their effectiveness while scouts dont >..> GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 766	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:59:00 - [18] - Quote Its difficult to speculate when a piece of equipment is being added that behaves like no other in the game. Its also a very VISUAL effect, so any speculation as to its power and effectiveness is completely misguided with the information we have. I'm running scout like I have always done, so no FOTM for me. As to changing playstyle for equipment? - Well can any scout honestly say that the lack of ability to hide their health bars has not cost them dozens of suits. Or that enemy vision precision popping them on the TACNET no matter how well dampened they are rendering their bonus completely useless. Hows this for a simply question - How many scouts do you know willingly play on Manus Peak, with its very limited cover between points? Not many. They're just too exposed. I think the best analogy we can draw from the cloaks effectiveness is its comparison to stamina usage. It won't allow us to stay hidden indefinitely and no other actions are available, therefore it will be used to cover ground, getting to an ideal position and enable a safer escape once a task is complete. It isn't the goal (the goal is to use equipment or get to a position) the cloak is merely a means to get there and counter repercussions. The inherent gameplay wont change. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 766	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:01:00 - [19] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: I think came across a dev post that said that the logi equipment reduction skill wouldn't apply to cloaks. I'd put it in here but unfortunately I don't remember where it was. Read it around 2:00 this morning I want confirmation on this. It makes no since that they would do this. If true = Yes it would make sense. Cloaking devices are Scout oriented. Same as Uplinks,Nanohives,repair tools and A.Scanners are Logi Equipment and they get bonus to fitting them plus bonus to their effectiveness while scouts dont >..> Can confirm this - its in the equipment feedback where the new stats were posted. You have to scroll through a lot of text but its there. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3953	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:01:00 - [20] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Its difficult to speculate when a piece of equipment is being added that behaves like no other in the game. Its also a very VISUAL effect, so any speculation as to its power and effectiveness is completely misguided with the information we have. I'm running scout like I have always done, so no FOTM for me. As to changing playstyle for equipment? - Well can any scout honestly say that the lack of ability to hide their health bars has not cost them dozens of suits. Or that enemy vision precision popping them on the TACNET no matter how well dampened they are rendering their bonus completely useless. Hows this for a simply question - How many scouts do you know willingly play on Manus Peak, with its very limited cover between points? Not many. They're just too exposed. I think the best analogy we can draw from the cloaks effectiveness is its comparison to stamina usage. It won't allow us to stay hidden indefinitely and no other actions are available, therefore it will be used to cover ground, getting to an ideal position and enable a safer escape once a task is complete. It isn't the goal (the goal is to use equipment or get to a position) the cloak is merely a means to get there and counter repercussions. The inherent gameplay wont change. Well said. And yes i am speculating.... I still think the introduction of the cloak might menace the presence of Med frames if not well balanced..... GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6541	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:05:00 - [21] - Quote Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1751034#post1751034 Directly from CPM Nova Knife. Please note he mentions that this is still subject to change so don't hold your breath over it. Quote: Some notes about cloak : (Take with a grain of salt, they may have changed or I may have just completely misunderstood.) Logi equipment bonus does not apply to their PG/CPU cost. Only scouts get the bonus to fit cloaks Cloaks have more in common with stamina than with the active modules vehicles use. You get some kind of funky cloak bar that diminishes as you use it, and it takes the time listed under "recharge" in the table to go from depleted to full. Wolfman or Remnant is probably going to make an actual devpost, so I won't steal their thunder with the actual mechanics (which may very well have changed since we discussed them) OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 244	Posted - 2014.01.23 09:07:00 - [22] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: knight of 6 wrote: as a scout I agree completely. I do what I do with 322 ehp(less than a starter fit). it's a completely different playstyle from the med frame game. I do with 204 EHP XD And its my best K-D ratio suit......... same as me Dragons don't have friends. The nearest we can get to the idea is an enemy who is still alive.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 738	Posted - 2014.01.23 09:16:00 - [23] - Quote I have 200EHP on mine. King Checkmate, are you running full E-WAR scout? Or speed/damage/stealth scout? For me, cloak will just be good for running across really open spaces and hopefully not drawing the eyes of snipers. Like on Manus Peak lol. And the first time I saw xX Lightning Xx was on Manus Peak... he was a beast in those hills despite the lack of more substantial cover.
pagl1u M The Rainbow Effect 251	Posted - 2014.01.23 09:41:00 - [24] - Quote I ve always loved the role of the scout and in other Games this has always been my play style, sneaky and fast. But I ve never specced into a scout before. I d like to do it now, not because It s OP but because now it is viable (also because as a logi I wont be able to play alone anymore). So I need some advices: will a caldari scout be good? What if I dont think to use any dampener? (kincat and scan Radius in these 2 slots.) Is it possible to use a scrambler pistol and a combat assault rifle instead of the shotgun? (I really suck with shotgun.)
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 951	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:01:00 - [25] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Is it possible to use a scrambler pistol and a combat assault rifle instead of the shotgun? (I really suck with shotgun.) Sure it is? Combat Assault Rifle is a Light Weapon and the Pistol is a Sidearm. Smeehf.
pagl1u M The Rainbow Effect 251	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:03:00 - [26] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: Is it possible to use a scrambler pistol and a combat assault rifle instead of the shotgun? (I really suck with shotgun.) Sure it is? Combat Assault Rifle is a Light Weapon and the Pistol is a Sidearm. I mean... Is it a good option or a shotgun scout will always be better. I know that scouts need a big Alpha dmg...
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 63	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:05:00 - [27] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Repe Susi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: Is it possible to use a scrambler pistol and a combat assault rifle instead of the shotgun? (I really suck with shotgun.) Sure it is? Combat Assault Rifle is a Light Weapon and the Pistol is a Sidearm. I mean... Is it a good option or a shotgun scout will always be better. I know that scouts need a big Alpha dmg... use a shotgun and a magsec smg or a bolt pistol or a ion pistol
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2064	Posted - 2014.01.23 10:59:00 - [28] - Quote I agree with you in that the cloak will mainly be a defensive equipment. You'll probably see more scouts disappearing behind walls and around corners with it instead of them appeaing out of nowhere right in front of you. They'll be used to cover ground quickly, to run away, and to wait for unsuspecting players. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 690	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:44:00 - [29] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Repe Susi wrote: pagl1u M wrote: Is it possible to use a scrambler pistol and a combat assault rifle instead of the shotgun? (I really suck with shotgun.) Sure it is? Combat Assault Rifle is a Light Weapon and the Pistol is a Sidearm. I mean... Is it a good option or a shotgun scout will always be better. I know that scouts need a big Alpha dmg... It really depends on rather you are playing aggressively or tactically. If tactical then alpha damage isn't needed (but doesn't hurt) My go-to set is a tactical scout that uses a B-SMG, KN, and flux 'nades. If aggressive then it depends on your range. If you want med-long engagements then go with the rifle. If up close then the shotgun it is. Personally I still have yet to spec into the SG nor do I have a fit that uses it (or any pistol for that matter). So all in all it's really up to you. I suggest sticking with the weapons you have already specced into and going from there. If you do good then the transition will be simple. If you find things too difficult then you may want to figure out were your problem lies and go from there. Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1373	Posted - 2014.01.23 11:56:00 - [30] - Quote Imo cloak cost too much for what it gives. I will skill in lvl.3 scout to try it, also i like the gal scout, it reminds me ghost recon, i only need the tactical RR and i'll be happy. 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...



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