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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Honestly, GroPos is the silliest abbreviation I've ever heard, you also forgot Halle from the NPC corp list.
But other than that, agreed wholeheartedly.
i believe GroPos is a currently in use military term, or possibly it used to be. If I'm right, it would be what the navy or air force called the army.
I know for certain that I've heard it before, In Babylon 5 the actual, feet on planet troops in whatever the human military was called (It's been a long time since I've watched it I may have to pull my DVD's out again sometime soon) were known to the station staff (who were naval personell) as GroPos.
And I doubt that Babylon 5 writers actually made it up.
As to the OP, I've been thinking that the markets need to be linked for a while now. It would fix 'protostomping' as demand for proto gear would drive up the cost and it would fix 'tankspam' for the same reason. It would also add a much needed level of interconnectivity between Dust and Eve as unless you're in FW, the only link currently is Lore. My solution to the travel problem is similar to yours except instead of isk per m3 I'd suggest a small surcharge of isk per jump, with a small flat rate fee if it's in system shipping. After all, the mass most of what people in Dust buy, even in the, multiples they're bought and sold in, are rounding error in terms of a transport ship cargo hold, the exception being vehicles of course where your idea makes a lot more sense.
The crazy thing is, I can already buy infantry equipment on the market in eve if I wanted to. i can tell you, for example, that a Scout G-1 dropsuit costs 3000 isk per unit and has a volume of 0.01 m3. The Uprising 1.8 additions aren't there yet, but that's no big surprise really. Blueprints also aren't available, presumably so enterprising capsuleers can't take their time stockpiling a huge stock of them to flood the market with.
If at least two of us can come up with different solutions, I'm sure CCP can and probably has as well. Perhaps they're waiting until after all the suits, vehicles and modules have been out for a bit to make the market live so that they're not having to seed each one as it's released.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:33:00 -
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Jadd Hatchen wrote:Squagga wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES. Ithink it would be fun. Not as fun as piloting my own MCC but still fun. OR if you're low on ISK and out of an MCC at the time you bargain up a deal with one of those back stabbing EVE pilots and hitch a ride! The MCC thing would be another system entirely separate from all this. Basically with an MCC in your corp/alliance you would designate a "jump clone" to be stationed on there with associated suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles for him to use. Then when needed, you would just "clone jump" from where ever you are currently at to the MCC to work out of the MCC until you either clone jump out of there, the MCC blows up, or otherwise becomes nonviable. MCC's are supposed to be like mini-mobile-stations probably piloted by an EVE player. When in transit they are supposed to be vulnerable to attack from other ships and thus should be escorted by fleets. Once in location over a planet they should enter into a mode of deployment in order to start attacking any of the districts on the planet below. While in this state if anyone attacks it, it would enter into a "reinforced" state where it's basically invulnerable for a time (usuaally 1 to 2 days) with a timer so both the attackers and defenders know when to come back for the final battle as the MCC becomes vulnerable again. Then if the MCC is destroyed, so are all the clones, suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles on board. Anyways, this was all detailed at the last EVE Vegas event.
Wait, the MCC's are supposed to use something like the POS mechanics? Haven't null sec POS operators been complaining about those practically since they were introduced?
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:22:00 -
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Jadd Hatchen wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote: My solution to the travel problem is similar to yours except instead of isk per m3 I'd suggest a small surcharge of isk per jump, with a small flat rate fee if it's in system shipping. After all, the mass most of what people in Dust buy, even in the, multiples they're bought and sold in, are rounding error in terms of a transport ship cargo hold, the exception being vehicles of course where your idea makes a lot more sense. Actually what I suggested was to take into account both the distance traveled (jumps as you put it) AND the size. So as I stated it was 1000 ISK times the distance times the volume. So if you wanted to transport 10 cubic meters 10 lightyears (about one region's worth) it would cost: 1000 ISK x 10 ly x 10 m3 = 100,000 ISK The drawback to using this system is the time it takes. it's 5 minutes per lightyear so in this case 50 minutes travel time. Hiring an EVE pilot to do it faster would require in the millions of ISK to get their attention, but they would be able to traverse the same distance in about 15 minutes or less assuming no issues from pirates etc. Instead of using lightyears as the unit of distance for charging, it is possible to instead use number of jumps along the shortest route between point A and point B. In the end it results in the same idea.
Route was one of the things I was thinking about, if someone were flying through low sec or Null, there would be a chance that their ship would be attacked and destroyed, to represent that you could have a system in the market in Dust that is a little like the route planner in eve where you could say shortest, which is the cheapest, quickest option, Avoid null, which adds a surcharge if the shortest route has null - sec systems in it or high sec only, which would be the longest route and have a larger surcharge for practically ensuring the cargo gets there. Each jump it goes through null sec or low sec would add a small percentage chance, for the sake of an example something like .5% in low and 1% in null, of the cargo just getting destroyed.
Or is that going too deep into it?
The only problem I can forsee with adding the player market to Dust is the interface. I wouldn't want to be a player who has to wade through the eve market windows and menues using a controller and the Dust Market as it is set up, doesn't show the level of detail a dust player would need to trade across systems.
And you're right, of course, a time factor to the order should probably apply.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
TunRa wrote:I like the sound of this, it will also increase scamming. I always felt we need more assholes in dust stealing stuff but it doesn't allow you to do so. And once you scam one person they tell everyone else what you did.
Scamming is a time honoured tradition in New Eden. As anyone who's looked at the local chat in any of the market hubs (especially Jita) can attest to.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
47
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Akira Regendorf wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
No thanks!
We're dust mercs, we are lore-wise capable of jump cloning to every battle we're sent to. Therefore we should be able to clone jump to any system we want to go to. I refuse to ask Eve pilots to "give me a ride". And if that's your idea, then it sucks ass... I agree with some of what the OP says and some of what this guy is getting at. As far as transfering ourselves we should be able to utilize whatever superluminal communications devices are present to 'cast our consciousness to any station with a clone vat. We would have to pay for the clone and maybe have a modifier for the distance to account for the higher energy cost of farther 'casts. We could have the ability to purchase a storage tank for the clone on the station, so if it's a region we go to frequently we would only have to pay a small amount for the 'cast itself. This would also mean that we could deploy to any battlefield in New Eden from any location. Now that just covers our consciousness, which according to lore can be reduced to packets of data, what about physical goods like guns, dropsuits, tanks etc.? For these we would have to rely on capsuleers or the NPC corp mentioned by the OP and could utilize the same system of pricing and such that OP mentions. "Now wait, if you can instantly deploy to anywhere in New Eden but your gear needs time to transport how is that going to work?" you might ask. My solution for this is that you could have a storage locker on a station, and whatever gear you have in that locker would be available to you at any battle in that region, so you have a locker on a station in Molden Heath you can use the gear anywhere in Molden Heath. If you don't have a locker in a region then the corp you are taking the contract from could provide gear for a price, so if you are jumping into a pub match made by NPC corps, you could say have access to std level gear at a slightly higher than average market price, or access to the 'starter' fits for free. If you are entering a Factional contract they could have access to higher tiers of gear and such but most likely only gear made by that faction, so if you use Cal gear and are doing Gal FW and don't have any of your gear in region well you should have thought that one through. If it's a player (either DUST or EVE side) that is making the contract they could offer whatever selection of gear they want (as long as they own it and it's in a locker in that region obviously) at whatever price they want, it could be free, could be expensive, or they could not offer any and make it a "contractor must supply their own hardware" type of contract. You start off with a locker in whatever station you start in and can use that gear in any matches in the region. You can then purchase storage lockers in other stations to expand your area of operations, you could also sell off lockers if you have no interest in that system any more. Also Corps would have access to hangars like in EVE, they can have a general pool of gear that their mercs in the region could have access to for whatever prices they want to designate for their troops, also corp members could open up personal storage in the Corps hanger for their own specialized gear. Now obviously features like this are way out and there are many more areas of this game that needs to be worked on, and this would also require the introduction of a number of systems that don't exist yet (contracts among others) and a revamp of existing systems (like battle finder to filter battles [contract] by region) but I think this would be an awesome way to do things once the time comes. Corps/alliances would have to set up supply lines like they do in EVE, they could establish a reputation for themselves in various regions that they primarily operate in, again like they do in EVE. It wouldn't limit us with regard to what contracts we can take so, if some scrub gets himself stranded in 0.0 he can still enter pub matches back in hi-sec to earn the isk to get out of there, if you want to deploy with some buddies but are on the other side of New Eden you still can, you may just have to rely on basic gear, or if they are really your friend they could sell you some of theirs.
As regards your gear, how can you have any of the dropsuits you've bought yourself and the attached modules at any CRU on the battlefield even if it was moments ago in the hands of the opposing team? That question has actually been bugging me a little lately. My ideas so far are either every CRU potentially has stocks of every suit and module and what you've bought is the ability to draw one out of the stores for any CRU, Supply Depot or Uplink anywhere in the galaxy, or they're somehow constructed, maybe an advanced form of 3D printing, each time you clone.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
48
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Akira Regendorf wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:As regards your gear, how can you have any of the dropsuits you've bought yourself and the attached modules at any CRU on the battlefield even if it was moments ago in the hands of the opposing team? That question has actually been bugging me a little lately. My ideas so far are either every CRU potentially has stocks of every suit and module and what you've bought is the ability to draw one out of the stores for any CRU, Supply Depot or Uplink anywhere in the galaxy, or they're somehow constructed, maybe an advanced form of 3D printing, each time you clone. this is a good point and I don't know, if it was a 3D printing thing and you have purchased the rights to produce x number of that suit/module/ whatever, which makes the most sense to me, then it would seemingly negate the need to transport anything. which would be totally lame
I hadn't thought about the constructed on site possibility negating the need for transporting things, but you're right. This could also be the way to avoid having to travel to play the market when it eventually goes live.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
48
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:We are still in the same universe (probably) as we were before. The universe ain't called New Eden; the Cluster of stars we're in is called New Eden.
We don't actually know where New Eden is in relation to Earth as far as I know. But for my part when I say New Eden Universe I mean it like people say 'the star trek universe.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
55
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Posted - 2014.01.23 20:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Akira Regendorf wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:As regards your gear, how can you have any of the dropsuits you've bought yourself and the attached modules at any CRU on the battlefield even if it was moments ago in the hands of the opposing team? That question has actually been bugging me a little lately. My ideas so far are either every CRU potentially has stocks of every suit and module and what you've bought is the ability to draw one out of the stores for any CRU, Supply Depot or Uplink anywhere in the galaxy, or they're somehow constructed, maybe an advanced form of 3D printing, each time you clone. this is a good point and I don't know, if it was a 3D printing thing and you have purchased the rights to produce x number of that suit/module/ whatever, which makes the most sense to me, then it would seemingly negate the need to transport anything. which would be totally lame I'm not touching that part of the "lore" as CCP has already changed how all that works from the beta. Originally, when you bought stuff off the market you weren't actually purchasing the items themselves. Instead you were purchasing a limit number of BPCs (blue print copies) for each of the items you used. Then when you deployed to a battle you used up a clone and one of the limited licensed runs of your gear that you had previously purchased. BPOs (blue print originals) have unlimited licensing rights and thus allow you to have the right to spawn and infinite number of them. Thus your starting militia fits and gear are BPO's while anything you purchased in limited numbers were only BPC's. However CCP (for whatever reason) seems to have stepped away from this. So I don't know if it's indeed how they still envision things to work or if they have in fact changed. The reason for the change is that EVE plots need the ability to manufacture the actual item out of minerals from the BPO's and BPC's that they will maintain in order to make a combined market work correctly. This means no "magical 3D printing" of gear on the battle field. On a side note, back during skirmish 1.0 days, the CRUs were about 4 times the size that they are now and actually had doors on them big enough for a gropo to fit though suggesting that it was more the gear and clones are already supplied inside there instead of created instantly. Anyways, due to logistical concerns with combining the markets, I'm leaning towards the non-virtual stuff and gear has to be transported idea.
I didn't know that about how it originally worked, but it does make some sense, of course as you pointed out, that wouldn't get eve industrial types anything to actually make. Which brings us right back to wondering how a CRU which has just been hacked from the opposing team suddenly potentially has all your gear in. Hopefully CCP address that somewhere. I'm also kind of curious about why we get to pick where we clone. In the instant of consciousness transfer (only the Jove as far as I know can do anything other than just transfer from one body to another and they're not telling how) how are we , or anyone else, directing the transfer to wherever we want? From a gameplay standpoint i get it, but the inability to do it going by the lore niggles a bit.
Oh wait. I think the Amarr can do it, maybe that tech was part of the package that they gave to each empire. That works for me.
Just the gear thing to figure out then.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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