DUST Search - Is it time to make the MD a side-arm?

Master Smurf wrote:

Justin Tymes wrote:

Master Smurf wrote:

Justin Tymes wrote:

Reav Hannari wrote:

The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos.

It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main.

But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive.

Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads.

And no - definitely not a sidearm

And what is the MD doing that a Rifle can't? Against Heavies the weapon is a useless. Against Assaults or Commandos, the weapon is a liability, against Logistics it's dependent on whether the Logi is using the most common weapon in the game; if so, it's a bad match-up. The same goes for Scouts, the suit that the MD is supposedly most effective against.

Assaults shouldn't be using a weapon that's bad to useless against multiple classes, that contradicts their purpose. That leaves Min Commando because it can a better weapon with a range above 15 meters.

And why shouldn't the MD not a side-arm?

So you want the shotgun to be a sidearm as well because of its limited range?
- Or the laser because up close it cant even tickle?

I am not saying not to buff them but they are niche weapons for a reason and that is why they have sidearms to support them.

And when you can make one rifle disperse a group, if you throw a flux or not - call me or vid it.

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Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:24:00 - [1] - Quote The MD was already one of the most situational weapons in the game, due to Shield v Armor actually mattering, vertical advantage and ammo + clip awareness being almost a necessity, while managing your optimal range that Rifles tend to out DPS you in anyway. All of this made it a mediocre choice, shown by how few people actually used the weapon pre-1. 8. But this changes in 1.8, because the MD will be the only weapon in the game(apart from Flaylock) that will be dependent on dropsuit class. Against a Heavy - useless Against Assaults or Commandos - Extremely Bad match-up Against Logistics - Neutral but may change due to the weapon of opponent Against Scouts - Favorable(what isn't, poor scouts) but may change due to weapon of opponent Even Laser don't find themselves useless to the point where they need to stop using their weapon against a class. Combined with the elements that made the MD already situational, it makes the MD not viable as a main weapon. If this is the direction the game is going, it makes sense to put the MD together with the rest of the massively situational weapons. It's not like it's out-DPSing sidearms too, on the contrary, it's being left in the dust against any sidearm other than the flaylock when comparing optimals.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 1007	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:29:00 - [2] - Quote Is it time to make the railgun a sidearm? Think about it; RAIL, ARM, SIDE... Those all sound like breakfast cereals!!!
sira draco Ancient Erectiles 30	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:29:00 - [3] - Quote I agree, it needs a buff, it is useless against all these insanely high DPS rifles, its difficult to use in cqc cause of the splash damage on yourself and dont give me that crap like "its a support weapon" ITS A FREAKING GRENADE LAUNCHER, you should be able to kill masses with it, people should fear it, It has so many drawbacks, low rate of fire, low damage, low ammo capacity, high pg cpu and high isk cost, there should be some benefit to using it, its a fun unique weapon I wanna see more people use it
Makuta Miserix Better Hide R Die 223	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:31:00 - [4] - Quote sira draco wrote: I agree, it needs a buff, it is useless against all these insanely high DPS rifles and dont give me that crap like "its a support weapon" ITS A FREAKING GRENADE LAUNCHER, you should be able to kill masses with it, people should fear it Maybe the correct approach isn't to buff the MD, (as much as I would love that) but to lower the damage of the rifles. May Scout's rise up again, and bring forth terror upon their enemies. Among the last of BHD Dust 514 Private Beta Vet
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:36:00 - [5] - Quote Makuta Miserix wrote: sira draco wrote: I agree, it needs a buff, it is useless against all these insanely high DPS rifles and dont give me that crap like "its a support weapon" ITS A FREAKING GRENADE LAUNCHER, you should be able to kill masses with it, people should fear it Maybe the correct approach isn't to buff the MD, (as much as I would love that) but to lower the damage of the rifles. I don't want to bring Rifle DPS in the discussion and turn this into another QQ thread. I want it to be mainly about the MD being bad to useless against dropsuit classes, and whether a weapon should be in the light-slot when it's dependent on class.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 423	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:39:00 - [6] - Quote Can we make the HMG a sidearm so I can run shotgun/HMG scouts???? No.... It's not going to happen So don't hold your breath waiting for MD Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4096	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:39:00 - [7] - Quote The MD is not as bad as the Laser Rifle, it's just that the Laser has more range so only a few weapons can counter it very well. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:42:00 - [8] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Can we make the HMG a sidearm so I can run shotgun/HMG scouts???? No.... It's not going to happen So don't hold your breath waiting for MD Your missing the point. The HMG is effective against all classes in the game, the Mass Driver will not be.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:44:00 - [9] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: The MD is not as bad as the Laser Rifle, it's just that the Laser has more range so only a few weapons can counter it very well. I was just comparing the weapons in 1.8 not now.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 605	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:48:00 - [10] - Quote That's what the Flaylock is for.

Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:55:00 - [11] - Quote Joel II X wrote: That's what the Flaylock is for. Aside from the fact that people don't use the flaylock much in 1.7, and will DEFINITELY not use the Flaylock at all in 1.8, what will the MD be used for in 1.8 as a Main weapon, and how making it a sidearm buff it to being extremely effective to overpowered at its job?
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 105	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:16:00 - [12] - Quote I luv my mass driver. Nothing pisses off proto stompers more then when you grenade them to death when they utilize spam and blob tactics, and the mass driver is actually the most essential weapon for those scenarios. However the time to kill is so low that the time it takes you to fire a couple shots, the enemy has already killed you several times over. I think the best solution is to lower the dps on rifles. However with 1.8 the MD will be useless against a Heavy unless under concentrated fire. The already high EHP and now with resistances to blast and splash damage it will be all but useless. However they are changing up a lot especially since minmatar commando is getting a direct boost to light and explosive damage. So perhaps they are gearing the MD's utility to that suit. Although i still prefer an MD on logistics suit. Carry all the hives you need and a scanner and all you gotta do is find good ground and you got it made in the shade. Im a Mass Driver Champion for a reason ya'know Trust in the Rust! 7-Time Matar Mass Driver World Champion Combat Rifle is for Combat!
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2685	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:18:00 - [13] - Quote The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 568	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:21:00 - [14] - Quote Nah it doesn't need to be a sidearm, it needs the rifles damage toned down a smidge and it is a reason to either A. be a commando or B. put skills into a side arm that compliments it. MD and mag sec can become a really good combo me thinks Depending on if the movement on the MIn commando is in practice enough to compensate for increased hit box and low EHP relative to other heavy suits...that MD/CR combo is going to be a hell of a force on the field. My pocket Dust theory crafter thinks its not going to be...but we shall see.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 351	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:40:00 - [15] - Quote The mass driver (and flaylock) both need a HUGE direct damage buff, maybe almost dobled from what they are, will encorage skilled shots with them and maybe even usefull against vehicals.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 617	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:47:00 - [16] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main.
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2830	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:51:00 - [17] - Quote Oh come on I still use the Mass Drivers and I'm even crazy enough to bring out the breach mass driver just as often. I would be down for a fitting requirement adjustment because in today's day and age the CR makes everything look not-worth it. But the MD works great still and I probably still **** people off I hope. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2686	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:57:00 - [18] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. The MD has always been a niche weapon and there is nothing wrong with some weapons being less popular or only useful in certain situations. People will develop unusual tactics around them and add variety to the game. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 621	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:05:00 - [19] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. The MD has always been a niche weapon and there is nothing wrong with some weapons being less popular or only useful in certain situations. People will develop unusual tactics around them and add variety to the game. Should it be useful to the point where it's effective only against a certain dropsuit class? And should it take up a Main weapon slot?
sira draco Ancient Erectiles 32	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:08:00 - [20] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. The MD has always been a niche weapon and there is nothing wrong with some weapons being less popular or only useful in certain situations. People will develop unusual tactics around them and add variety to the game. no, people will stop using it, like the flaylock and variety will decrease, right now this game is boring because everyones running rail, scrambler or combat rifles and tank spam

Master Smurf Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:13:00 - [21] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive. Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads. And no - definitely not a sidearm "Shine bright like a diamond" - God's Light and Love make me dazzle
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 621	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:25:00 - [22] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive. Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads. And no - definitely not a sidearm And what is the MD doing that a Rifle can't? Against Heavies the weapon is a useless. Against Assaults or Commandos, the weapon is a liability, against Logistics it's dependent on whether the Logi is using the most common weapon in the game; if so, it's a bad match-up. The same goes for Scouts, the suit that the MD is supposedly most effective against. Assaults shouldn't be using a weapon that's bad to useless against multiple classes, that contradicts their purpose. That leaves Min Commando because it can a better weapon with a range above 15 meters. And why shouldn't the MD not a side-arm?
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 515	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:26:00 - [23] - Quote I'm still using it mainly because I can't stop. Explosions are too fun. The only time I stopped was when it was FOTM. But for this build I need to use 2 complex damage mods to make it even close to effective and I'm still getting assists most of the time. Mostly due to the fact that rifles are so effective that my teammates instantly kill everything I'm shooting at before I can finish them off. A direct damage buff would be awesome. I definitely support that. That and ammo. At least one extra clip. Side arm? Nah. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole Durka durka.... Bitch.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2896	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:32:00 - [24] - Quote You'll see its effectiveness in matches of organised squads. Since these scenarios don't occur much outside PC, the weapon can seem rather imbalanced. Don't underestimate it. No.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 887	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:35:00 - [25] - Quote WHen you fire a giant Smoke Flare in the air saying "Here I am!" for 2-3 Aim assists even with Militia variant weapons you die quickly.. Mass driver never had issues until aim assist was a thing, also was used more when people actually had to aim for themselfs as it allowed generalized aim kills instead of pinpoint aim. Mass drivers main Nerf was giving Everyone Magnetic Tracking and bullets. Give everyone Super Aim, and reward people for hits when not fully on target and any gun requiring the player to do that work them self will be at a disadvantage. Let's not even talk about the SP and Equipment gap difference that makes it even worse with AA.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 621	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:38:00 - [26] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: You'll see its effectiveness in matches of organised squads. Since these scenarios don't occur much outside PC, the weapon can seem rather imbalanced. Don't underestimate it. This is about 1.8, are you saying in PC people will use weapon that are bad against half of the classes in the game?
Jammeh McJam New Age Empire. 67	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:38:00 - [27] - Quote sira draco wrote: I agree, it needs a buff, it is useless against all these insanely high DPS rifles, its difficult to use in cqc cause of the splash damage on yourself and dont give me that crap like "its a support weapon" ITS A FREAKING GRENADE LAUNCHER, you should be able to kill masses with it, people should fear it, It has so many drawbacks, low rate of fire, low damage, low ammo capacity, high pg cpu and high isk cost, there should be some benefit to using it, its a fun unique weapon I wanna see more people use it Rifle DPS wouldn't be that bad if there was no WAS "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna rape you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2834	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:40:00 - [28] - Quote Bethhy wrote: WHen you fire a giant Smoke Flare in the air saying "Here I am!" for 2-3 Aim assists even with Militia variant weapons you die quickly.. Mass driver never had issues until aim assist was a thing, also was used more when people actually had to aim for themselfs as it allowed generalized aim kills instead of pinpoint aim. Mass drivers main Nerf was giving Everyone Magnetic Tracking and bullets. Give everyone Super Aim, and reward people for hits when not fully on target and any gun requiring the player to do that work them self will be at a disadvantage. Let's not even talk about the SP and Equipment gap difference that makes it even worse with AA. yeah I noticed that AA was an early problem against MDs. People used to ***** the splash would throw off their aim too much but du-nu-nu-nu-nah! Aim Assist to the rescue! Blow through that splash recoil with a bot assist! Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 15	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:48:00 - [29] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Master Smurf wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive. Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads. And no - definitely not a sidearm And what is the MD doing that a Rifle can't? Against Heavies the weapon is a useless. Against Assaults or Commandos, the weapon is a liability, against Logistics it's dependent on whether the Logi is using the most common weapon in the game; if so, it's a bad match-up. The same goes for Scouts, the suit that the MD is supposedly most effective against. Assaults shouldn't be using a weapon that's bad to useless against multiple classes, that contradicts their purpose. That leaves Min Commando because it can a better weapon with a range above 15 meters. And why shouldn't the MD not a side-arm? So you want the shotgun to be a sidearm as well because of its limited range? - Or the laser because up close it cant even tickle? I am not saying not to buff them but they are niche weapons for a reason and that is why they have sidearms to support them. And when you can make one rifle disperse a group, if you throw a flux or not - call me or vid it. "Shine bright like a diamond" - God's Light and Love make me dazzle
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 621	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:57:00 - [30] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Master Smurf wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: The MD will make a good second weapon for Minmatar Commandos. It's ok on Min Commandos only because you're not using it as a main weapon(the point of the thread). The problem is that the MD is just going to be an extremely niche Min Commando weapon that will still be outclassed by Dual RIfles in some situation, or go home MD users because the MD is not viable as a main. But you can have a MD with an assault SMG as your sidearm, flux grenades and a nanohive. Maybe it needs a buff through a bit more damage or a few more shots in the mag. Still it needs to be used as a niche weapon similar to shotgun and laser so we cant buff it so people will try to Rambo squads. And no - definitely not a sidearm And what is the MD doing that a Rifle can't? Against Heavies the weapon is a useless. Against Assaults or Commandos, the weapon is a liability, against Logistics it's dependent on whether the Logi is using the most common weapon in the game; if so, it's a bad match-up. The same goes for Scouts, the suit that the MD is supposedly most effective against. Assaults shouldn't be using a weapon that's bad to useless against multiple classes, that contradicts their purpose. That leaves Min Commando because it can a better weapon with a range above 15 meters. And why shouldn't the MD not a side-arm? So you want the shotgun to be a sidearm as well because of its limited range? - Or the laser because up close it cant even tickle? I am not saying not to buff them but they are niche weapons for a reason and that is why they have sidearms to support them. And when you can make one rifle disperse a group, if you throw a flux or not - call me or vid it. This isn't about optimal conditions, this is about a light weapon's usefulness against classes. Laser and Shotguns are still effective against all classes, the MD will not be in 1.8.



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