Tanking has turned Dust 514 into Tanks 514 and therefore reduced our beloved game to a laughing stock and a joke.

I love(d) this game....but the tanks and the n00bs with super powers ruined it.

I honestly thought the AV and tank vs. tank was balanced in uprising besides the railguns, the only thing that needed changing was the prices.

AV needs a buff, so long as tanks remain cheap they will be fine in that regard.

1.7 tank vs tank definitely needs to be reworked

All tanks need are a rebalancing or re-designation of role.

All WE need is an option. Infantry only mode or regular mode.

Sometimes it would be nice just to go toe to toe in CQC with whoever, whenever without a dropship shooting me with missles or a tank shooting me from like, 20 feet away....or as I deploy.

Tanks and Dropships camping CRU's and droplinks is a huge problem I see every single day....I see it because I am often dead before my screen even loads.

Tank vs tank is garbage, easy-mode, and bad.

Why:
1.Damage mod rails destroy anything with no thought or strategy. Pop the damage mods and hit your target a couple times. Renders blasters useless even in close-quarter engagements (the blasters strength).

2. Any armor build will be destroyed in one volley (unless you have lol 3 hardners) by damage mod missiles (confirmed by AlldinKans using his missle build in testing).

3.Av is a nonfactor. Tanking was fun in uprising because you had to have awareness or you never had a chance. Now any noob can cycle hardeners and be god mode.

4. Active modules are gameplay destroyingly good. What do i mean? The hardeners are simply to good as well as damage mods. Their isn't anything strategic about them. They'll make any garbage tanker beast while activated.

5. In general tanks no longer take any skill: wanna pop a armor tank damage mod missiles one volley : wanna destroy any blaster use a rail: wanna two (three with hardener) shot anything damage mod rail. It would be one thing if their was simply advantages but in this build rock paper and scissors are so pronounced that skill (or even having a game plan) is non-existent. Just turn on the active modules and "gamebalance" will overpower enemy skill.

6. The only competition of skill (if you can call it that) is rail fights. This is because you must clutch shots

Blaster vs blaster doesnt require any timing or strategy. Now that you have passive reps, generally, in blaster fights both tanks have full health. So its just pop your mods and shoot at the massive target. Previously with active reps you had more to consider in a blaster fight. Example In this instance i had to consider my health being low and that the enemy had got the jump on me. I assumed he was or had popped his reps when he engaged me. I popped around the corner knowing that his reps would be ending. i won because i had got back my health and had more reps to win the rest of the fight.

Missile vs armor is what it should be an advantage. BUT The advantage vs armor tanks is too much. BUT Only because of how overpowered active modules are (In this situation stacked damage mods).

All WE need is an option. Infantry only mode or regular mode.

Sometimes it would be nice just to go toe to toe in CQC with whoever, whenever without a dropship shooting me with missles or a tank shooting me from like, 20 feet away....or as I deploy.

Tanks and Dropships camping CRU's and droplinks is a huge problem I see every single day....I see it because I am often dead before my screen even loads.

1. Damage Mods are OP, but in any situation the Blaster should lose 80% of the time, Rail > Blaster > Infantry > Rail. It's strength is as an Anti Infantry weapon, not an Anti Tank.

2. Run a better fit. A shield tank can be two shotted by most rails, And I've actually come across armor tanks that have survived a volley of missiles and sped away, An Armor tank can use speed to its advantage and dodge the missiles.

3. Dumb. If I have an AVer with me when I'm fighting tanks, do you know how incredibly grateful I am? I guess not so I'll tell you, I'm pretty sure I've asked one or two to marry me. Fact is a Forge will smash a tank, providing it isn't designed specifically for killing Infantry and even then if you're not an idiot and you're using cover you can kill them. Swarms and Plasma Cannons are light AV, it should be easy to solo a tank with them, they're for support and I tell you when I have a support Swarmer, I decimate.

4. That's the ******* point, you activate them, you're good, but you lose them and you're toast. I've been solo'd by swarms using a GUNNLOGI because I've had my hardeners in cooldown, four volleys "Oh, I'm a burning wreck, oh dear."

5. I'm not sure about that, if I plan my route and take caution, using my experience and "skill", I kill a lot of other tanks, those that rush me straight on die quickly. There wasn't much "skill" last build either, you'd rock up, kill the guy with your proto cannon because it's proto, and drive away. Now with hardeners and **** I actually have to slam into them and try and position myself to get the bonus damage.

6. Disagree.

I don't know what you classify as skill, but personally it's using your knowledge and experience to out-do the enemy, take two of the same fits and skills, put them against eachother. The player with the most "skill" is going to win, through manoeuvrability, timing, weapon management and aim.

Look, unless you're running a crazy tank sniping fit, a Madrugar can tank your shots providing he's fitted to deal with AT weaponry. A blaster is for Infantry and should never match up against a Rail or Missile turret when it comes to AV. You go on about Blasters, but htfu, it's a AI weapon, soz.

Tank combat in PC these days consist of Railgun tanks shooting at one another and which ever side has enough tanks to match the others tanks gets to call in a blaster that gets popped 10 seconds later by a railgun tank.

Dual Complex Armor Reppers are OP. Let me lay this out

The Ishukone Assault Forge Gun with Proficiency 4 and two Complex Heavy Damage mods does 2025 Damage every Three seconds for 12 seconds for a total of 8100.

2 Complex Armor Reppers with Max Armor Repair Systems 5 repairs 362.5 Armor a second.

So that is 1087.5 Armor Repaired in the three seconds between each Forge Gun shot, cutting the Damage from the Forge in half to 937.5

So in 12 Seconds a Forge gun effectively does 3750.

Now that Forge Gun as to reload, meaning that there is a 7 second delay between it's next shot giving the tank enough time to rep 2537.5 Damage.

This is outrageous and I am making a thread about it.

Missiles are perfectly balanced! They are doing what they are meant to do: be king of AV at CQC. But railguns are stealing that title because they are iWin buttons at every range.

While AV is weaker than it should be, I personally think it should be more of a deterrent to HAVs, and a threat to other vehicles.

The other vehicles should be more capable of killing tanks to make up for this; infantry need to realize this game doesn't revolve around them.

They are good but are op when stacked with damage mods. Perhaps its just damage mods. Agree with the rails.

Maybe you shouldn't have been so anti AV pre 1.7?

Before we had weak tanks that were only useful to skilled tankers and good AV.

Now we have EZ mode tanks that anyone can use and AV is quite terrible.

PLC is still awful.

Swarms range being nerfed was actually perfect IMO, but the dmg and mag reduction were too much.

FG nerf was, again, perfect IMO.

And AV grenades to weak to LAVs. Keep the dmg but give them a giant bonus when they hit LAVs and dropships.

While AV is weaker than it should be, I personally think it should be more of a deterrent to HAVs, and a threat to other vehicles.

The other vehicles should be more capable of killing tanks to make up for this; infantry need to realize this game doesn't revolve around them.

So your telling me you like this tank vs tank in this build? You made no argument you just told me what this build entails and basically to get good. LOL

If you disagree you can disagree. But dont disagree tell me what i know as an arguement.

AV is trash if you would argue otherwise your a terrible fool. I didnt say you cant destroy tanks naturally there are noobs using improper fits.

Fact of the matter is you like the gameplay. I think its trash and have stated why. Please gtfo with the get good and well i can kill people arguments. Im saying WHAT I CAN DO. Everything i mentioned i can do with ease. Jason please be a forum warrior somewhere else. Ive all ready spanked you and put you to bed in pc last build.

All WE need is an option. Infantry only mode or regular mode.

Sometimes it would be nice just to go toe to toe in CQC with whoever, whenever without a dropship shooting me with missles or a tank shooting me from like, 20 feet away....or as I deploy.

Tanks and Dropships camping CRU's and droplinks is a huge problem I see every single day....I see it because I am often dead before my screen even loads.

Tank vs tank is garbage, easy-mode, and bad.

6. The only competition of skill (if you can call it that) is rail fights. This is because you must clutch shots

I disagree. I like the Tank v. Tank in this patch, providing it actually IS Tank v. Tank and not "I is Sica Tank in redline I is hradcore tanker!"

1. I don't find Damage Mods to be that difficult to deal with. When I see a Tank hit me and see "WARNING: DAMAGE MODIFICATION ACTIVE", I fall back and wait for a better engagement. Once that is gone, I engage and attack them as normal. I have found that a Damage Mod lowers your overall tankiness as it requires so much CPU that you cannot fit Complex Armor Modules. For Shield Tanks, they are losing a Booster, Extender, or Hardener. They are meant to do high alpha damage. After that, they are simply not as tanky as I am.

2. I have only really engaged with one Missile Tank. I was shocked to see the damage output. I died but mostly because my Hardener was on CD (I had just used it to fend off an Assault Forge Gunner) and I got myself stuck on a building when I was backing up. As I have only faced one, I cannot comment on this one.

3. I am not quite sure on this one. Enemy Tank + Enemy AV really tips the scales of a Tank Engagement. Certain AV weapons likely need a damage buff though.

4. That was the point of them, I believe. Not making garbage Tankers good but making Tanks very difficult to kill during that time frame. It is because CCP didn't like what I like to call the Teabag Tank (no, I don't mean it like that). They would simply sit there in an area with their cycled hardeners (because they had 3, 2 after PG nerf) and soak a bunch of damage. They sat there for quite a long time. The change has Tanks being more guerrilla warfare. Attack when modules are up, leave when they are done. The only difference increased SP gives you when it comes to those modules is how often you can re-engage. I still tend to kill many Tankers that are not worth their salt. I have probably killed more Tanks in the last 5 days then I did in 6 weeks of Chromosome.

There certainly seem to be many Tankers that are not really familiar with how to operate their vehicles effectively.

5. I have never been two shot by a Railgun with my Madrugar. I think I can generally survive 3 without hardener if the enemy has a Damage Mod active, but I generally flee and re-engage when it will be an easier fight unless they are right in front of me and I can fire back quickly. I also have never two shot (three, yes) with my Prototype Railgun and a Damage Mod.

6. I disagree here. The Skill comes from knowing that you are in an unfavorable fight and need to fall back and re-engage. You can also outmaneuver Railguns' slow turn speed by getting close and running 'circles' around them.

I feel there is more skill involved with Tank v. Tank now then last patch. Tank v. Tank doesn't exist in a vacuum. If I misuse my hardener when I am fighting infantry and run into a Tank, it is because I don't have my hardener (my misplay) that I will probably die. If I don't pick the correct time to reload, it is my misplay why I die. In 1.6, every fight I had with a Tank worked like this:

Activate Heat Sink (only used against enemy tanks), turn on Repairer the second I start to take into Armor Damage (if I had it, if not I was generally fine), and if my other Hardener was off CD turn it on. I then just hold down the trigger until it was dead or I was. I didn't overheat because of the Heat Sink. There was little thought to be had. I sat there and ate his damage while he sat there and took mine. Having to worry about Ammo and more careful use of Hardener rather than using one, counting to 20, use the other, and just keeping it on CD makes for a more dynamic Tank vs. Tank environment.

That is just entirely my opinion based of what I have seen. I mean no disrespect.

Be well.
-Joseph

Tank vs tank is garbage, easy-mode, and bad.

Why:
1.Damage mod rails destroy anything with no thought or strategy. Pop the damage mods and hit your target a couple times. Renders blasters useless even in close-quarter engagements (the blasters strength).

2. Any armor build will be destroyed in one volley (unless you have lol 3 hardners) by damage mod missiles (confirmed by AlldinKans using his missle build in testing).

3.Av is a nonfactor. Tanking was fun in uprising because you had to have awareness or you never had a chance. Now any noob can cycle hardeners and be god mode.

4. Active modules are gameplay destroyingly good. What do i mean? The hardeners are simply to good as well as damage mods. Their isn't anything strategic about them. They'll make any garbage tanker beast while activated.

5. In general tanks no longer take any skill: wanna pop a armor tank damage mod missiles one volley : wanna destroy any blaster use a rail: wanna two (three with hardener) shot anything damage mod rail. It would be one thing if their was simply advantages but in this build rock paper and scissors are so pronounced that skill (or even having a game plan) is non-existent. Just turn on the active modules and "gamebalance" will overpower enemy skill.

6. The only competition of skill (if you can call it that) is rail fights. This is because you must clutch shots

Blaster vs blaster doesnt require any timing or strategy. Now that you have passive reps, generally, in blaster fights both tanks have full health. So its just pop your mods and shoot at the massive target. Previously with active reps you had more to consider in a blaster fight. Example In this instance i had to consider my health being low and that the enemy had got the jump on me. I assumed he was or had popped his reps when he engaged me. I popped around the corner knowing that his reps would be ending. i won because i had got back my health and had more reps to win the rest of the fight.

Missile vs armor is what it should be an advantage. BUT The advantage vs armor tanks is too much. BUT Only because of how overpowered active modules are (In this situation stacked damage mods).

Many points are correct, however I strongly disagree on blaster vs blaster being dull.
It USED to be dull in 1.6 and ever before, it was always about two tanks parking and one dying. Now there's much movement.


The point on damamods is spot on, their power is so extreme (there's never been +30% damage module in CCP game to my knowledge).

Damamodded rails kill by two shot, without a chance of activating hardeners (only way to have enough time might be to be readily waiting on module activation wheel, and even then the chances are slim. Not even super reflexes are enough.
So the combination on rate of fire with damamod is stupedously effective.

Tank vs tank is garbage, easy-mode, and bad.

Why:
1.Damage mod rails destroy anything with no thought or strategy. Pop the damage mods and hit your target a couple times. Renders blasters useless even in close-quarter engagements (the blasters strength).

2. Any armor build will be destroyed in one volley (unless you have lol 3 hardners) by damage mod missiles (confirmed by AlldinKans using his missle build in testing).

3.Av is a nonfactor. Tanking was fun in uprising because you had to have awareness or you never had a chance. Now any noob can cycle hardeners and be god mode.

4. Active modules are gameplay destroyingly good. What do i mean? The hardeners are simply to good as well as damage mods. Their isn't anything strategic about them. They'll make any garbage tanker beast while activated.

5. In general tanks no longer take any skill: wanna pop a armor tank damage mod missiles one volley : wanna destroy any blaster use a rail: wanna two (three with hardener) shot anything damage mod rail. It would be one thing if their was simply advantages but in this build rock paper and scissors are so pronounced that skill (or even having a game plan) is non-existent. Just turn on the active modules and "gamebalance" will overpower enemy skill.

6. The only competition of skill (if you can call it that) is rail fights. This is because you must clutch shots

Blaster vs blaster doesnt require any timing or strategy. Now that you have passive reps, generally, in blaster fights both tanks have full health. So its just pop your mods and shoot at the massive target. Previously with active reps you had more to consider in a blaster fight. Example In this instance i had to consider my health being low and that the enemy had got the jump on me. I assumed he was or had popped his reps when he engaged me. I popped around the corner knowing that his reps would be ending. i won because i had got back my health and had more reps to win the rest of the fight.

Missile vs armor is what it should be an advantage. BUT The advantage vs armor tanks is too much. BUT Only because of how overpowered active modules are (In this situation stacked damage mods).

1. Blasters are Anti-Infantry not Anti-Tank :l

2. But missiles have long reload and are only good vs Madrugar... btw with 2 damage mods it's around 14k damage on Armor.

3. I prefer to think of infantry AV as support AV, though something needs to be done about Gunnlogi repairing through damage thanks to hardener.

4. Not sure about this yet.

5. Rails need a RoF reduction or higher heat buildup, that's all I'll say for now.

6. Pretty much.

Fun Fact: Shield Hardener allow Gunnlogis to rep through Blaster damage. The major downside with missiles is that it's not instant-hit and rails could easily dispose of those missile tanks on long range.

You don't get to choose when I bring in my PvP cruiser and lay waste to your ships in EVE (not saying I could...I'm a terrible pvper) in the same way you don't get to decide arbitrarily in war that your opponent wont use vehicles....

Agreed but currently the way things are tank vs tank is poor.

You don't get to choose when I bring in my PvP cruiser and lay waste to your ships in EVE (not saying I could...I'm a terrible pvper) in the same way you don't get to decide arbitrarily in war that your opponent wont use vehicles....

Why use a forge when you can call in a miltia and do about 3000 damage per shot with dmods and rail. Its a joke lol

Maybe you shouldn't have been so anti AV pre 1.7?

Before we had weak tanks that were only useful to skilled tankers and good AV.

Now we have EZ mode tanks that anyone can use and AV is quite terrible.

PLC is still awful.

Swarms range being nerfed was actually perfect IMO, but the dmg and mag reduction were too much.

FG nerf was, again, perfect IMO.

And AV grenades to weak to LAVs. Keep the dmg but give them a giant bonus when they hit LAVs and dropships.

They are good but are op when stacked with damage mods. Perhaps its just damage mods. Agree with the rails.

I like the idea of a devastating missile barrage. I hate that it can be done twelve times in a row. Not that ammo limits would matter with the broken recall mechanics.

Recall should be (re)moved in its entirety from the game now.

Vehicles are no longer expensive enough to warrant such a game mechanic.

Edit - (re)