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CCP - 1.7 Vehicles are NOT fun

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Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1091	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:06:00 - [1] - Quote CCP, you tried to make vehicles "fun." Please tell me, where's the fun in losing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi to ***** rail tanks that cost 100k ISK almost every single *** match? Where's the fun in seeing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi being hopelessly blown up as you call it in while in the *** redline by a railgun? Where's the *** fun when I have to run a *** rail tank to compete with those rail tank scrubs on the field? Give us 1.6 back and let's begin the rework again. This time, LISTEN to the community. For starters, make the armor reps and shield boosters behave the way they were *** meant to behave. I like the 1.7 armor reps and shield boosters, so bring those back to 1.6. Missile turrets couldn't compete in 1.6. They are finally balanced now, but are still UP when compared to the ***** railgun. FIX this! "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
pagl1u M The Rainbow Effect 234	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:07:00 - [2] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP, you tried to make vehicles "fun." Please tell me, where's the fun in losing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi to ***** rail tanks that cost 100k ISK almost every single *** match? Where's the fun in seeing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi being hopelessly blown up as you call it in while in the *** redline by a railgun? Where's the *** fun when I have to run a *** rail tank to compete with those rail tank scrubs on the field? Give us 1.6 back and let's begin the rework again. This time, LISTEN to the community. For starters, make the armor reps and shield boosters behave the way they were *** meant to behave. I like the 1.7 armor reps and shield boosters, so bring those back to 1.6. Missile turrets couldn't compete in 1.6. They are finally balanced now, but are still UP when compared to the ***** railgun. FIX this! U mad?
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1113	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:11:00 - [3] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: U mad? He mad. /confirmed I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1551	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:12:00 - [4] - Quote I was always wary of the railgun stats when initially doing analysis calcs of 1.7, especially with the effectiveness of damage mods. While I like the accessibility of HAVs now, you are almost guaranteed to have multiple rail tanks in any given match which effectively forces you to run rail or hide the whole time if you want to survive. Railguns are BORING. Blaster Brawling and Missile Ambushing are fun. But endless sniper rail battles against other tanks? No thanks, I'll run on foot. EDIT And yes I understand that rails are supposed to be Anti-Vehicle, but unfortunately due to their range and damage output, vehicle combat is almost always restricted to rails so that you can remain competitive. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 336	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:14:00 - [5] - Quote How else do I counter OP Tanks? Nothing's better than my 80k isk rail sica that's for sure GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 718	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:19:00 - [6] - Quote Get Gud bro
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 613	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:24:00 - [7] - Quote At least dropships are fun. More tank thanks to removal of side turrets, better hardeners/reps, and easier access to heavy mods. Better splash for small missiles, rails got a buff and are actually useable if you're good. AV is pretty balanced. Forges are balanced and swarms no longer lock from insane distances yet still have the annoying "bump" (could us a bit more damage, honestly). Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/1
Scout Registry 562	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:28:00 - [8] - Quote But please maintain uselessness of swarms and av nades, so infantry cant't defend themselves from my omnipotence. And please maintain my LAV-like speed, so infantry can't run for cover. Also, we need more open maps and less cover; I'm not able to post 30/0 every match because infantry hide in structures . scouts say no to quid pro quo
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 421	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:29:00 - [9] - Quote Sicas are literally worse than ******. We want cake and tea.
SHANN da MAN D3LTA FORC3 160	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:35:00 - [10] - Quote I will just say this ... (as Tankers are so fond of saying to AV Guys) HTFU Bro ... nothing to see here ... move along

Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 417	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:37:00 - [11] - Quote This post doesnt even really address "fun". This is another balance thread. Vehicles/AV does have an issue being "unfun" but its not really balance related. See my other post for more https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136235
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1552	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:39:00 - [12] - Quote SHANN da MAN wrote: I will just say this to you OP ... (as Tankers are so fond of saying to AV Guys) HTFU Bro ... And as AV guys said to tankers since Closed Beta until Uprising 1.6 HTFU Bro ... 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 145	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:44:00 - [13] - Quote Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck...
Scout Registry 562	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:47:00 - [14] - Quote Also, please tweak matchmaking such that all the tanks are always on the same team. Its more fun that way. And remove quota so we can have more tanks. Also, tanks should be allowed to traverse redline; stomping infantry in ambush is fun, but we'd have more fun if we could stomp other playmodes as easily. scouts say no to quid pro quo
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1552	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:50:00 - [15] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck... Missiles have 300m range, railgun has 600m. So he's a bad tanker if the militia tank hides 300+ meters from the redline so the missiles can hit him, but he can counterattack with a rail? 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2230	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:51:00 - [16] - Quote Im having fun most days Sure it sucks that a militia tank got the drop and popped you in 2 shots or whatever but it is the same when i do it to a proto suit with my BPO scout dren shotgun suit I have to rail in some matches, i dont want to because it ruins my fun but if i keep taking tanks off them then its worth it Intelligence is OP
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7904	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:53:00 - [17] - Quote It's fair being butchered by your anti-infantry tanks for the infantry. So... it's not fair being killed by an anti-tank tank when you're in a tank? Forgive me if don't feel any sympathy. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1623	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:56:00 - [18] - Quote gunlogi's are garbage, if your mods are on they are great but you get no warning before you are getting railed and no time to activate those mods. stick with madrugars, seriously I tried them both, and even though madrugars are less durable, and much much slower, they still live longer, when those rail snipers can't instantly pop you as for being unfair it really REALLY isn't.
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:58:00 - [19] - Quote Just be glad you have cover, a ton of modules, PG and CPU and base health. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1092	Posted - 2014.01.16 17:58:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Im having fun most days Sure it sucks that a militia tank got the drop and popped you in 2 shots or whatever but it is the same when i do it to a proto suit with my BPO scout dren shotgun suit I have to rail in some matches, i dont want to because it ruins my fun but if i keep taking tanks off them then its worth it I'm not talking about just militia tanks. I'm talking about every rail tank that pops my missile tank at CC. Railguns aren't meant for CQC, yet they are more effective than missiles! Railguns should stay at long range and get defeated easily if they venture into CQC. Also, because tanks are so cheap, relatively speaking, I kill a rail tank with my rail, they just call in a new one, so I can never have fun with my missile tank if there's just one enemy rail tanker. They will always call in new rails to try to get their payback and the whole game turns into a boring rail sniping contest. Even if they stop calling in rails, what's to stop them from calling in one when I've switched over to missiles? Then I'm sure as dead, so I have to keep sitting on my ridge line with my rail tank tank, which is boring as hell. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:01:00 - [21] - Quote Oh, I almost forgot. And it's cheap. Seriously though, rails and/or the redline need to be addressed. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1092	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:02:00 - [22] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: Oh, I almost forgot. And it's cheap. Not really. Tanks actually had more survivability in 1.6 than they do now in 1.7. You lose more tanks now at a faster rate, so you can still go negative easily. ESPECIALLY when it takes two good games to make it back. All it takes is one scrub with a rail tank to charge you like a mindless brute and you go negative. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1092	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:05:00 - [23] - Quote Oh, I wish my militia dropsuit can charge head on at a proto suit and win almost every time "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 128	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:08:00 - [24] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Blaze Ashra wrote: Oh, I almost forgot. And it's cheap. Not really. Tanks actually had more survivability in 1.6 than they do now in 1.7. You lose more tanks now at a faster rate, so you can still go negative easily. ESPECIALLY when it takes two good games to make it back. All it takes is one scrub with a rail tank to charge you like a mindless brute and you go negative. <---ADS pilot. I'm banished from skirm and domination and still lucky to not lose my ship in a match. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 318	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:10:00 - [25] - Quote Redline Sniping is the problem there. On maps where the Sica and Soma Tanks come after my Madrugar, I win unless they pull off a truly impressive engagement like right after I use my hardener + blindsiding me while I am in no position to return fire and have difficulty falling back to get a more favorable engagement. That, to me, is fun. I almost always run Railgun Tanks in my matches but I am roaming around the maps looking for enemy installations, Vehicles, and maybe the odd Strawberry I can hit with my Rail. When the things I have been happily killing suddenly find me in a bad spot and start punishing me for it as I start to calculate if I can rotate the gun and fire back or if I need to bug out and re-engage, it creates a great sense of urgency and excitement. When I get hit by a Railgun Sniper that I cannot see, cannot fire back at, and even if I could they would take 1 hit and immediately be behind a big rock, it is lame. That person is risking almost nothing and getting a huge amount of power out of his Tank. Depending on the map, he may even be getting more power in the Vehicle Denying aspect than I am if the advantage point is great. Sneaking behind a more properly Skill Pointed and fit Tank with a weenie Militia and killing it/making it run away because of a great engagement is fun and rewarding: it makes all of us better Tankers. Sitting on a rock with a Militia Damage Mod (or two) and a Militia Railgun with virtually no risk is wrong. Be well. -Joseph
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3543	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:14:00 - [26] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: And as AV guys said to tankers since Closed Beta until Uprising 1.6 HTFU Bro ... Except AVers aren't the ones QQing in this thread. If you want to go munch in the OP's nuts, get a room bro. Creator of The AV Registry The Pilot's Whipin' Boy // DJINN Lukeoplast's alleged sock *FORGE MASTER RACE*
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 49	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:32:00 - [27] - Quote Marad''er wrote: How else do I counter OP Tanks? Nothing's better than my 80k isk rail sica that's for sure Pretty much. If my 120k AV suit was half as good as my 77k Sica, I'd use it instead. As is, my proto suit and proto AV are unreasonably ineffective as AV. Sure they still do damage, the flaylock still does damage too but I haven't seen it in months. I spced into AV to counter tanks (not LAV's or Dropships), but now I have to resort to using a Tank to kill a Tank. Even if they nerf the mlt railgun it'll still be way better than lolAV, so you'll continue to see mlt tank spam as it's "the best counter" HTFU "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1092	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:33:00 - [28] - Quote pagl1u M wrote: Harpyja wrote: CCP, you tried to make vehicles "fun." Please tell me, where's the fun in losing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi to ***** rail tanks that cost 100k ISK almost every single *** match? Where's the fun in seeing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi being hopelessly blown up as you call it in while in the *** redline by a railgun? Where's the *** fun when I have to run a *** rail tank to compete with those rail tank scrubs on the field? Give us 1.6 back and let's begin the rework again. This time, LISTEN to the community. For starters, make the armor reps and shield boosters behave the way they were *** meant to behave. I like the 1.7 armor reps and shield boosters, so bring those back to 1.6. Missile turrets couldn't compete in 1.6. They are finally balanced now, but are still UP when compared to the ***** railgun. FIX this! U mad? I was... until I started calling in my own rail tank from the start of every match and heading for the best ridge line. I actually got my first hate mail too when I retreated to my redline and popped a rail Madrugar 100m away. I believe I killed 5 non militia rail tanks that match, but I lost one myself because someone stated shooting me first a fraction of a second before I started. And I still went negative with about -30k ISK that match. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1092	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:34:00 - [29] - Quote Happy Jack SD wrote: Marad''er wrote: How else do I counter OP Tanks? Nothing's better than my 80k isk rail sica that's for sure Pretty much. If my 120k AV suit was half as good as my 77k Sica, I'd use it instead. As is, my proto suit and proto AV are unreasonably ineffective as AV. Sure they still do damage, the flaylock still does damage too but I haven't seen it in months. I spced into AV to counter tanks (not LAV's or Dropships), but now I have to resort to using a Tank to kill a Tank. Even if they nerf the mlt railgun it'll still be way better than lolAV, so you'll continue to see mlt tank spam as it's "the best counter" HTFU My tear jar is open for when the SP gap is brought back and militia tanks are eaten up for breakfast and only the most invested pilots remain on the field. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Chaos Scum Warcaste 18	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:38:00 - [30] - Quote I did an ambush last night where the enemy had 4 tankers, our team was 13 blueberries and myself. I had no choice but to waste Isk standing up to these guys. I lost 3 tanks to bring down 7. I also got 3 assists. It was not very fun but it was intense. Don't hate me because I'm dutiful.

Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 49	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:45:00 - [31] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Happy Jack SD wrote: Marad''er wrote: How else do I counter OP Tanks? Nothing's better than my 80k isk rail sica that's for sure Pretty much. If my 120k AV suit was half as good as my 77k Sica, I'd use it instead. As is, my proto suit and proto AV are unreasonably ineffective as AV. Sure they still do damage, the flaylock still does damage too but I haven't seen it in months. I spced into AV to counter tanks (not LAV's or Dropships), but now I have to resort to using a Tank to kill a Tank. Even if they nerf the mlt railgun it'll still be way better than lolAV, so you'll continue to see mlt tank spam as it's "the best counter" HTFU My tear jar is open for when the SP gap is brought back and militia tanks are eaten up for breakfast and only the most invested pilots remain on the field. Sorry bro, I'll invest SP into Tanks if it's the only wasy to kill you fagg0ts. I'm adapting, not crying. Work on your reading comprehension "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 145	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:48:00 - [32] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck... Missiles have 300m range, railgun has 600m. So he's a bad tanker if the militia tank hides 300+ meters from the redline so the missiles can hit him, but he can counterattack with a rail? That's where skill comes into it. I don't try to pop railtanks with missiles from 300 meters away (that would be stupid). What I do is sneak up behind enemy tanks and unload all 12 missiles in their rear (and usually insta kill them in the process or at the very least make them limp away with very little armor left). Redline railtanks is another issue that's hard to counter with anything but another railtank. But that doesn't mean that tanks or railguns are the problem, but rather that the redline is too easy to abuse (and should quite frankly be removed). Still that doesen't mean it's hopeless. Just stay out of the redline camping chickenshits line of fire (they can't snipe all over the map because their view is limited) and move around to make it harder to track you.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3316	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:50:00 - [33] - Quote Why do people always associate ******* vehicles with tanks? Tank balance should be made to TANKS, not the entirety of freaking vehicles. Lack of content makes stuff broken... Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 145	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:51:00 - [34] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Blaze Ashra wrote: Oh, I almost forgot. And it's cheap. Not really. Tanks actually had more survivability in 1.6 than they do now in 1.7. You lose more tanks now at a faster rate, so you can still go negative easily. ESPECIALLY when it takes two good games to make it back. All it takes is one scrub with a rail tank to charge you like a mindless brute and you go negative. It's your own fault though, for not using more econoical fits. I mean for **** sake, you run around in tanks that cost half a million. -.- Evidently they are fitted with too much expensive and redundant crap that you don't need.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1554	Posted - 2014.01.16 18:55:00 - [35] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck... Missiles have 300m range, railgun has 600m. So he's a bad tanker if the militia tank hides 300+ meters from the redline so the missiles can hit him, but he can counterattack with a rail? That's where skill comes into it. I don't try to pop railtanks with missiles from 300 meters away (that would be stupid). What I do is sneak up behind enemy tanks and unload all 12 missiles in their rear (and usually insta kill them in the process or at the very least make them limp away with very little armor left). Redline railtanks is another issue that's hard to counter with anything but another railtank. But that doesn't mean that tanks or railguns are the problem, but rather that the redline is too easy to abuse (and should quite frankly be removed). Still that doesen't mean it's hopeless. Just stay out of the redline camping chickenshits line of fire (they can't snipe all over the map because their view is limited) and move around to make it harder to track you. Well yes redline mechanics are a massive issue, especially with rails. Problem being is that on some maps the redline offers such a massive area of sight that you struggle to avoid them, lest you cower on the far end of the map behind a box. Missiles are great unless you're dealing with a hardened shield tank, but Im fine with that. I think the issue is that you can take a pure militia fit sica with a railgun, go up a fully decked out Madrugar at point blank, and easily win against his blaster. Its much like the issue we see with the rail rifle being used in CQC...things simply are not balanced to make the long range weapons less effective than close range weapons up close. I think pairing a rework of the redline mechanics with damage balance of blasters vs rails at close range, would do wonders in Tank vs Tank combat. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2234	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:00:00 - [36] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Im having fun most days Sure it sucks that a militia tank got the drop and popped you in 2 shots or whatever but it is the same when i do it to a proto suit with my BPO scout dren shotgun suit I have to rail in some matches, i dont want to because it ruins my fun but if i keep taking tanks off them then its worth it I'm not talking about just militia tanks. I'm talking about every rail tank that pops my missile tank at CQC. Railguns aren't meant for CQC, yet they are more effective than missiles! Railguns should stay at long range and get defeated easily if they venture into CQC. Also, because tanks are so cheap, relatively speaking, I kill a rail tank with my rail, they just call in a new one, so I can never have fun with my missile tank if there's just one enemy rail tanker. They will always call in new rails to try to get their payback and the whole game turns into a boring rail sniping contest. Even if they stop calling in rails, what's to stop them from calling in one when I've switched over to missiles? Then I'm sure as dead, so I have to keep sitting on my ridge line with my rail tank tank, which is boring as hell. Meh Take a chance and keep your eyes peeled Intelligence is OP
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2695	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:09:00 - [37] - Quote Welcome to tiericide. This is what some folks have been clambering for. Higher level doesn't mean a guaranteed win. MLT can pop your proto. You get shorter cool down times but everything is as good as everything else in all other respects. Next up, we get the tiericide in suits.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1102	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:21:00 - [38] - Quote higher player counts for the last month would say otherwise.
CrotchGrab 360 The Men In The Mirror 1374	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:23:00 - [39] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP, you tried to make vehicles "fun." Please tell me, where's the fun in losing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi to rail tanks that cost 100k ISK almost every single match? Where's the fun in seeing your 529k ISK Gunnlogi being hopelessly blown up as you call it in while in the redline by a railgun? Where's the fun when I have to run a rail tank to compete with those rail tank scrubs on the field? Give us 1.6 back and let's begin the rework again. This time, LISTEN to the community. For starters, make the armor reps and shield boosters behave the way they were meant to behave. I like the 1.7 armor reps and shield boosters, so bring those back to 1.6. Missile turrets couldn't compete in 1.6. They are finally balanced now, but are still UP when compared to the railgun. FIX this! REALLY? You know I wouldn't have known had it not been from the 99,000 threads which preceded this. Do you think this is new to anyone?
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 146	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:28:00 - [40] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck... Missiles have 300m range, railgun has 600m. So he's a bad tanker if the militia tank hides 300+ meters from the redline so the missiles can hit him, but he can counterattack with a rail? That's where skill comes into it. I don't try to pop railtanks with missiles from 300 meters away (that would be stupid). What I do is sneak up behind enemy tanks and unload all 12 missiles in their rear (and usually insta kill them in the process or at the very least make them limp away with very little armor left). Redline railtanks is another issue that's hard to counter with anything but another railtank. But that doesn't mean that tanks or railguns are the problem, but rather that the redline is too easy to abuse (and should quite frankly be removed). Still that doesen't mean it's hopeless. Just stay out of the redline camping chickenshits line of fire (they can't snipe all over the map because their view is limited) and move around to make it harder to track you. Well yes redline mechanics are a massive issue, especially with rails. Problem being is that on some maps the redline offers such a massive area of sight that you struggle to avoid them, lest you cower on the far end of the map behind a box. Missiles are great unless you're dealing with a hardened shield tank, but Im fine with that. I think the issue is that you can take a pure militia fit sica with a railgun, go up a fully decked out Madrugar at point blank, and easily win against his blaster. Its much like the issue we see with the rail rifle being used in CQC...things simply are not balanced to make the long range weapons less effective than close range weapons up close. I think pairing a rework of the redline mechanics with damage balance of blasters vs rails at close range, would do wonders in Tank vs Tank combat. Remember: the closer the range, the longer time it takes for a turret to track. Another skill-related fact you have to consider if you want to call yourself a good tanker. I've danced around plenty of railttanks and killed them at point blank range. The railgun turret has the slowest turret tracking of all the large turrets, and this is what you need to exploit in cqc.

Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 826	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:35:00 - [41] - Quote Oh! I think the fun is in blasting some fool's gunlogi with a cheapo militia tank. CCP has succeeded at that : ) Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1556	Posted - 2014.01.16 19:37:00 - [42] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Remember: the closer the range, the longer time it takes for a turret to track. Another skill-related fact you have to consider if you want to call yourself a good tanker. I've danced around plenty of railttanks and killed them at point blank range. The railgun turret has the slowest turret tracking of all the large turrets, and this is what you need to exploit in cqc. I will admit this is very true. I think much of the frustration is when you have 3-4 enemy Sica rail tanks on the field and you're heavily out numbered. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1099	Posted - 2014.01.16 20:00:00 - [43] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck... Missiles have 300m range, railgun has 600m. So he's a bad tanker if the militia tank hides 300+ meters from the redline so the missiles can hit him, but he can counterattack with a rail? That's where skill comes into it. I don't try to pop railtanks with missiles from 300 meters away (that would be stupid). What I do is sneak up behind enemy tanks and unload all 12 missiles in their rear (and usually insta kill them in the process or at the very least make them limp away with very little armor left). Redline railtanks is another issue that's hard to counter with anything but another railtank. But that doesn't mean that tanks or railguns are the problem, but rather that the redline is too easy to abuse (and should quite frankly be removed). Still that doesen't mean it's hopeless. Just stay out of the redline camping chickenshits line of fire (they can't snipe all over the map because their view is limited) and move around to make it harder to track you. Well yes redline mechanics are a massive issue, especially with rails. Problem being is that on some maps the redline offers such a massive area of sight that you struggle to avoid them, lest you cower on the far end of the map behind a box. Missiles are great unless you're dealing with a hardened shield tank, but Im fine with that. I think the issue is that you can take a pure militia fit sica with a railgun, go up a fully decked out Madrugar at point blank, and easily win against his blaster. Its much like the issue we see with the rail rifle being used in CQC...things simply are not balanced to make the long range weapons less effective than close range weapons up close. I think pairing a rework of the redline mechanics with damage balance of blasters vs rails at close range, would do wonders in Tank vs Tank combat. Remember: the closer the range, the longer time it takes for a turret to track. Another skill-related fact you have to consider if you want to call yourself a good tanker. I've danced around plenty of railttanks and killed them at point blank range. The railgun turret has the slowest turret tracking of all the large turrets, and this is what you need to exploit in cqc. True yes, but YOU have to use tactics to get the jump on them. They need to do nothing other than charge straight at you with no skill involved. Also, they aren't good tankers then if they don't use their tank to turn around. You can't beat a rail tank even if you are right next to each other if they keep their sights on you the whole time. I still stand by my statement that rail tanks (shield in particular) are iWin buttons at any range. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2438	Posted - 2014.01.16 20:26:00 - [44] - Quote Remove the god **** redline
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 148	Posted - 2014.01.16 20:32:00 - [45] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Erm, you must be a seriously bad tanker if you can't kill militia railtanks in a gunnlogi worth half a ******* million. -.- My tank fit is only like 165 thousand, and I scare the crap out of railtankers (and i don't even use the railgun myself, I use missiles). It's not the games fault that you suck... Missiles have 300m range, railgun has 600m. So he's a bad tanker if the militia tank hides 300+ meters from the redline so the missiles can hit him, but he can counterattack with a rail? That's where skill comes into it. I don't try to pop railtanks with missiles from 300 meters away (that would be stupid). What I do is sneak up behind enemy tanks and unload all 12 missiles in their rear (and usually insta kill them in the process or at the very least make them limp away with very little armor left). Redline railtanks is another issue that's hard to counter with anything but another railtank. But that doesn't mean that tanks or railguns are the problem, but rather that the redline is too easy to abuse (and should quite frankly be removed). 7 Still that doesen't mean it's hopeless. Just stay out of the redline camping chickenshits line of fire (they can't snipe all over the map because their view is limited) and move around to make it harder to track you. Well yes redline mechanics are a massive issue, especially with rails. Problem being is that on some maps the redline offers such a massive area of sight that you struggle to avoid them, lest you cower on the far end of the map behind a box. Missiles are great unless you're dealing with a hardened shield tank, but Im fine with that. I think the issue is that you can take a pure militia fit sica with a railgun, go up a fully decked out Madrugar at point blank, and easily win against his blaster. Its much like the issue we see with the rail rifle being used in CQC...things simply are not balanced to make the long range weapons less effective than close range weapons up close. I think pairing a rework of the redline mechanics with damage balance of blasters vs rails at close range, would do wonders in Tank vs Tank combat. Remember: the closer the range, the longer time it takes for a turret to track. Another skill-related fact you have to consider if you want to call yourself a good tanker. I've danced around plenty of railttanks and killed them at point blank range. The railgun turret has the slowest turret tracking of all the large turrets, and this is what you need to exploit in cqc. True yes, but YOU have to use tactics to get the jump on them. They need to do nothing other than charge straight at you with no skill involved. Also, they aren't good tankers then if they don't use their tank to turn around. You can't beat a rail tank even if you are right next to each other if they keep their sights on you the whole time. I still stand by my statement that rail tanks (shield in particular) are iWin buttons at any range. If I had 10.000 isk everytime a railtankers tried that on me, I'd be considerably richer than i am now. It's clear that you just started this thread to whine rather than learn. The cold hard truth is that you're a bad tanker if you can't deal with a scrub in a railgun sica charging straight at you. Get better and stop complaining. The first thing you need to do is trim the fat of your current tank fit because they are way more expensive than they need to be atm.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1235	Posted - 2014.01.16 20:53:00 - [46] - Quote Some times I'll have a sica kill me in three shots after putting a full volley into him w/ a dmg mod other times I'll take out 2-3 sica's at once my main issue is redline rail installations and snipers I have had installations deal that final blow from 420+ meters, but seriously you have to slap a particle cannon on a gunlogi and sit in the back to be good 3 shotting pretty much any tank and if I hit you once or twice you crawl back behind your hill. Another issue is high ROF you can't give high Alpha and High ROF don't nerf it to oblivion but don't make it the I win button either. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
Meeko Fent State Patriots 1734	Posted - 2014.01.16 20:56:00 - [47] - Quote Good god Harpja! Jesus, relax. Sorry you got hard countered, by the AT Hard Counter. Why don't, go and get a rail tank of your own and pop him? Blasters aren't the only way anymore. Blasters are for ruining infantry, and infantry only. Missiles are the only middle ground out there, so either keep whining, (Like EVERY other time you seem to end up dying), or adapt to the new environment on hard counters. DUST is a half decent game. Be happy its free.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3543	Posted - 2014.01.16 21:53:00 - [48] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Why do people always associate ***** vehicles with tanks? Tank balance should be made to TANKS, not the entirety of freaking vehicles. I think it's because all vehicles share the same modules. Except maybe Afterburners and NOS. Creator of The AV Registry The Pilot's Whipin' Boy // DJINN Lukeoplast's alleged sock FORGE MASTER RACE**
Harpyja Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1100	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:00:00 - [49] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Good god Harpja! Jesus, relax. Sorry you got hard countered, by the AT Hard Counter. Why don't, go and get a rail tank of your own and pop him? Blasters aren't the only way anymore. Blasters are for ruining infantry, and infantry only. Missiles are the only middle ground out there, so either keep whining, (Like EVERY other time you seem to end up dying), or adapt to the new environment on hard counters. So you're saying that rails should be the ultimate AV weapon at EVERY range? Why don't you make the rail rifle an iWin button at any range while you're at it. Railguns are meant to be long ranged support. Good at both AV and AI. Missiles are meant to be CQC AV with bad AI abilities. This is how you achieve balance. Right now there's only one option for taking out a rail tank, and that's with bringing your own rail tank. But make railguns weak at CQC, and now you suddenly have more than one option for taking out a railgun tank. You can get up close and personal with missiles, and maybe even blasters, to take out that railgun tank. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Sirys Lyons Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 69	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:03:00 - [50] - Quote 1. We need MAVs to take over the current "infantry stomper" role, while giving up some EHP. 2. Large turrets needs to redesigned to be almost exclusively AV weapons - far slower turret rotation, far slower ROF, and slower reload times. Balancing the railgun in this regard (how well does each L Turret kill any given vehicle at any given range?) is then easy. Problem largely solved when the Large Railgun ROF no longer makes a difference of 1000EHP almost inconsequential because it fires every 0.33 seconds.

Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 149	Posted - 2014.01.16 22:12:00 - [51] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Remember: the closer the range, the longer time it takes for a turret to track. Another skill-related fact you have to consider if you want to call yourself a good tanker. I've danced around plenty of railttanks and killed them at point blank range. The railgun turret has the slowest turret tracking of the large turrets, and this is what you need to exploit in cqc. I will admit this is very true. I think much of the frustration is when you have 3-4 enemy Sica rail tanks on the field and you're heavily out numbered. Okay I'll act as tanking-guru for a little more then: If it's 4 Sica out there, then it's very likely that you're dealing with uncoordinated scrub-tankers who basically just bought a sicaand slapped on some standard-adv railguns and modules that they can use (in other words: it's not someone like me you're dealing with because tankers like me don't use "noob tanks" like Sicas or Somas). Meaning: it's unlikely that you're dealing with a squad of experienced tankers working together and talking to eachother with headsets (if that's what you're up against and you don't have a coordinated team of your own then sorry but theres nothing you can do about such a threat besides hiding from them). This is something you can exploit with a bit of patience and smarts. Keywords here are: "divide and conquer". You won't be able to fight 3-4 rail-Sicas in a straight up fight, so you have to get them when they're out scrub-hunting like idiots because they're bored by not having anything to shoot at. Your best friend for this is the overview map (press the down-button on your controller to bring it up in the middle of a battle). It's actually quite surprising how few people use the overview map other than when they spawn or are just about to bring down a warbarge-strike. You can see enemy tanks on the overview-map (if it ain't marked with a blue hav-symbol then it's an enemy). If you look closely you can even see what they are armed with. So call down your tank and park yourself somewhere out of the hotzone, but still close enough for you to speed off for a rapid strike and watch how the enemy tanks move about. Like a herd or gazelles, eventually one of them will stray too far from his buddies and close enough to you. That's when you roll in, and strike before he knows what happened and then retreat to another safe-spot and bring up the map again (see if your victim calls in another noob tank or if his buddies try to come to his aid). Even better is if you have the skills to fit a two-seater tank with a small turret and can squad up with a friend that you can chat with using a headset. That way, you can drive the tank and shoot stuff while your friend has the overview map open constantly and watches out for enemy tanks. That way you will litterally have eyes at the back of your head, which is a ridiculously huge advantage for any tanker.


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