DUST Search - Scouts: what upgrades does your class need? [article research]

knight of 6 wrote:

everyone you ask will have a different opinion what the scout does, CCP has done a really good job of making sure it does all those roles but doesn't do them all at the same time. in fact they have done too good a job in that regard, the scout is amazing it can have 100+ meters of passive scan, or 700 hitpoints, or be completely unscanable. doing any of these things though means that it is hopelessly incompetent in all other areas.

rolls of the scout:
assassin (Rogues do it from behind)
recon (I saw you coming from a mile away)
ninja (you didn't see me coming)
disruption specialist (in your base hacking your cannons)
sniper ("it's a legitimate tactic!")

if a scout has decent ehp, it isn't playing to it's strengths and relying too heavily on it's passives
if a scout is fast; it isn't stealthy, has no scan range, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin
if a scout has a good scan range; it isn't stealthy, fast, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin
if a scout is stealthy; it isn't fast, has poor scan range, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin
if a scout is sorta fast and sorta stealthy, it's relying on it's passives(which aren't very good) and isn't very good at anything.
if a scout is a sniper, a logi is doing it better.

at low tiers the scout is slot starved
at all tiers the scout is ehp starved (scouts shouldn't have a lot of HP but they need more than they have)
at all tiers is is cpu/pg starved
it needs more stamina and speed
and a longer scan range

if I could fit a range extender, a cardiac reg, and the necessary tank on an ADV scout i would be so happy.

a combination of slot starvation and well thought out but less than Ideal base stats forces the scout to specialize into one role at the complete neglect of all the necessary elements of a well balanced fit with good synergy.

Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!

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Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 521	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:41:00 - [1] - Quote one of our writers is working on a blog regarding the scout class and its relevancy. what does ur class need to better play its role and to make the scout worth the low health tradeoff? we've already added possible speed buff, cloak as a direct counter to scanners, low scan profile/large scan radius and the ability to spot targets for entire team that was the norm before the changes. please consider balance, but what else would make the class more relevant?
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 883	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:48:00 - [2] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: one of our writers is working on a blog regarding the scout class and its relevancy. what does ur class need to better play its role and to make the scout worth the low health tradeoff? we've already added possible speed buff, cloak as a direct counter to scanners, low scan profile/large scan radius and the ability to spot targets for entire team that was the norm before the changes. please consider balance, but what else would make the class more relevant? Read the thread linked in my signature. There are many differing opinions. Most are along the lines of: More CPU/PG More scan range Another equipment slot (especially with cloaks coming) Higher strafe/sprint speed {:)}{3GÇó> Please help me save the Gal scout!: linky
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 977	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:49:00 - [3] - Quote Reduction to the stamina delay nerf as well as additional PG/CPU. And instead of the ability to spot targets for the team, only for the squad. We don't need people alerting our prey prior to an attack (by them firing on targets we are stalking), it puts us at risk for retaliation prior to us achieving our ideal striking positions. That is all I've ever wanted. In summary: A bit of extra speed.... (like .3 or so to base/sprint for each suit), reduction to stamina delay nerf, 20M passive scan range, 25 if they are really reducing Gal racial bonus, reduction to profile/precision.... maybe to 35 or even 30 if they are really buffing Gal logi active scanner efficiency and removing scout bonus and more CPU/PG - not alot but some (not sure on the # here). Nothing ridiculous, just some minor tweaks across the board. I'd even be willing to tolerate a reduction in health for this.... Oh, and fix the Gal ADV suit to 1H / 3L slots..... Cloak should not be a requirement for scout viability.
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 232	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:55:00 - [4] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: And instead of the ability to spot targets for the team, only for the squad. We don't need people alerting our prey prior to an attack (by them firing on targets we are stalking), it puts us at risk for retaliation prior to us achieving our ideal striking positions. sounds remarkably similar to "dont want anyone stealing my kills." kids these days.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 707	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:56:00 - [5] - Quote I actually do think cloaks are a necessity. The ability for the enemy to simply look in my direction and see the red chevron and health means moving from cover is incredibly difficult on some maps, as well as the lack of camouflage. What I think would elevate a lot of concerns is if Scouts got a HUGE PG/CPU buff that would make logi's cry. Our health is pitiful and our low slot count more than makes up for us to have carte blanch for whatever we decide to fit. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 883	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:59:00 - [6] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Oh, and fix the Gal ADV suit to 1H / 3L slots..... Cloak should not be a requirement for scout viability. This^^^ While I think that the cloak will be a fantastic adition to the game, I feel that I sould still be able to play the roll I am now, because I enjoy my current playstyle/mechanics. Ninjas don't disappear, they "ninja vanish". {:)}{3GÇó> Please help me save the Gal scout!: linky
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1549	Posted - 2014.01.12 14:02:00 - [7] - Quote A bigger and more precise passive scan, as of 1.8 a 25% reduction in the base scan profile per suit. For the scout class would be nice to relay our passive data to the squad/team. More slots or higher base HP, more CPU/PG, and an extra eq slot. And a nerf to damage modifiers (and a change to the minmatar asssult bonus). And passive armor repair for the Gallente scout because it is such a waste to armor tank with it when shield repair is so godly. I run minmatar scout because I hate that the Gallente scout is poopy in combat.
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 182	Posted - 2014.01.12 14:05:00 - [8] - Quote For aim assist not to work on scouts.. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Cooper Eudaemon DUST University Ivy League 47	Posted - 2014.01.12 14:09:00 - [9] - Quote As a scout sniper on hiatus, what we need more than anything is better maps. CCP has skewed the maps wildly from being snipers' paradises to snipers' nightmares. The large majority of objectives are completely concealed from any feasible sniping position. There are only one or two maps left where it's worth bringing out a sniper fit--for all the rest, if I tried, I would spend the entire match hunting for one clean shot. For scout snipers and CQC scouts (and really, for everyone), the biggest thing we need is a decently functioning radar. Supposedly, my dropsuit is outfitted with an incredibly sophisticated far-future sensor suite. So why can't it put a tank on the radar when that tank is less than 10 meters away? If a vehicle, or a heavy is within 10 meters, it should be on my radar, period. Not just when it's directly in front of me. Death is a learning experience. I just wish I wasn't such a slow learner. >.<
Marc Rime 219	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:25:00 - [10] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Oh, and fix the Gal ADV suit to 1H / 3L slots..... I'd rather have 2/3 for adv and then 2/4 on pro.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 619	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:27:00 - [11] - Quote Reiki Jubo wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: And instead of the ability to spot targets for the team, only for the squad. We don't need people alerting our prey prior to an attack (by them firing on targets we are stalking), it puts us at risk for retaliation prior to us achieving our ideal striking positions. sounds remarkably similar to "dont want anyone stealing my kills." kids these days. There needs to be a way to "spot" high value targets and not just show anyone everything I see. - A logi holding back a bit - A forge gunner on top of a building - A sniper nestled in a certain area I may not be able to get to them in time or they maybe guarded. Being able to pinpoint targets while then just giving confirmation over comms would definitely help and fill the scout role. Others: 1. slightly higher stamina but much higher stamina regen 2. removal of fall damage - should only die if you fall from a distance where you fail to activate inertia dampeners If the tacnet was improved for scouts to work similar to stealth games where we could see targets well in the immediate area then there would be no true need for the second equipment slot. A player could then choose to use a scanner to help the squad or a cloak to infiltrate better - they wont be reliant on them and have to forego other helpful equipment. Also CPU/PG is a must - when you run the numbers vs medium suits with similar slot layouts, light suits have less resources. In your blind spot
Foo Fighting Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 42	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:42:00 - [12] - Quote Armour repair built in or as a suit bonus, certainly for Minmatar as there aren't enough lows.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 108	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:52:00 - [13] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Read the thread linked in my signature. There are many differing opinions. Most are along the lines of: More CPU/PG More scan range Another equipment slot (especially with cloaks coming) Higher strafe/sprint speed Son-Of A-Gun wrote: There are many differing opinions. Most are along the lines of: More CPU/PG More scan range Another equipment slot (especially with cloaks coming) Higher strafe/sprint speed Son-Of A-Gun wrote: More CPU/PG More scan range Another equipment slot (especially with cloaks coming) Higher strafe/sprint speed Son-Of A-Gun wrote: More CPU/PG Higher strafe/sprint speed Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Higher strafe/sprint speed!!! It just makes me furious to see some random armor tanked suit backpedal away just as fast I can move forward while trying to I'm trying to knife them
Scheneighnay McBob Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 3540	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:55:00 - [14] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: one of our writers is working on a blog regarding the scout class and its relevancy. what does ur class need to better play its role and to make the scout worth the low health tradeoff? we've already added possible speed buff, cloak as a direct counter to scanners, low scan profile/large scan radius and the ability to spot targets for entire team that was the norm before the changes. please consider balance, but what else would make the class more relevant? Read the thread linked in my signature. There are many differing opinions. Most are along the lines of: More CPU/PG More scan range Another equipment slot (especially with cloaks coming) Higher strafe/sprint speed Speed is unnecessary- I think faster stamina recovery would be better. We used to have a time machine
Qn1f3 Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2014.01.12 16:01:00 - [15] - Quote Reiki Jubo wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: And instead of the ability to spot targets for the team, only for the squad. We don't need people alerting our prey prior to an attack (by them firing on targets we are stalking), it puts us at risk for retaliation prior to us achieving our ideal striking positions. sounds remarkably similar to "dont want anyone stealing my kills." kids these days. You sire, clearly are not a scout or are not playing the suit as it's role is meant to be played. If you do not understand what Matticus means. I'll try to compose my thoughts a little later, cause there is a lot of fine-tuning need to be done to our beloved suit.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 280	Posted - 2014.01.12 16:20:00 - [16] - Quote The fall damage Daxxis mentioned is huge. Why should the suit marketed as the most mobile take fall damage from falling 10m? And the damage do a third of our already terrible health? I know heavies who can fall out of the MCC and live through the fall damage, but I can't count the number of times I almost made out of a firefight, or made it away from a large group of enemies, only to die from the 20 damage from falling 2m after jumping a rail.
OZAROW Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 1207	Posted - 2014.01.12 16:22:00 - [17] - Quote Reiki Jubo wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: And instead of the ability to spot targets for the team, only for the squad. We don't need people alerting our prey prior to an attack (by them firing on targets we are stalking), it puts us at risk for retaliation prior to us achieving our ideal striking positions. sounds remarkably similar to "dont want anyone stealing my kills." kids these days. Sounds more like I'm sick of standing behind someone, with knives or a shotgun an ur dumbass is greedy an shoots an the guy spins around an you kill him when he's reloading after he kills me! So ya screw shared team vision SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Kuroiokami Tsukinaku A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 14	Posted - 2014.01.12 16:28:00 - [18] - Quote My top 5 (in no particular order) -Lower base signature by 5db. -Increase base run speed by 0.2-0.5. -Increase base scan to 20m. -Allow scout scan to be shared, or the ability to 'laze' a target/area to the squad. -Make addition of Cloak something that does not excessively limit our current abilities.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 406	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:15:00 - [19] - Quote Scouts don't need help avoiding scanners. It takes one low slot to counter scanners. And withdrawn/squad site removed its way easier to stay off radar. I do admit that a min assault is probably better suited for the scout role right now. Scouts could use a second equipment slot to make them a via me option over a better tanked min assault. Especially with cloaks coming. If u could run cloak/scanner or re/cloak or re/scanner and maintain the mobility of a light it would give me a reason to use scout over min assault. But even as is, using scanner and staying out of sight as a scout can still be effective and fun. But I admit, min assault does this just as well with more room for error.
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 2472	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:19:00 - [20] - Quote biotics and electronics "Imagine a world where hypothetical thoughts didn't exist" -Draxus Prime Closed Beta Vet Nova Knife Proficeiney 5 \o/
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 280	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:23:00 - [21] - Quote The scan dampening suit bonus is going away for all but the gallente scout. So... No more hiding with one dampener.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1196	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:27:00 - [22] - Quote Changes to role bonus Changes to racial bonuses Changes to scanner precision balancing (Changes would allow scouts to stay stealthy even after loss of prof damp bonus) 2nd equipment slot cpu/pg buff Scout Roles: M-Speedy Anarchist \| C-Chaos Weaver \| G-Stealth Recon \| A-Endurance Hunter
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:29:00 - [23] - Quote Give us a targeting laser that operates like a sniper rifle, but instead of doing damage, the gun "paints" a target so that it becomes visible to all team members for a set amount of time. Tiers could determine the length of time that the target is painted or the number of targets that could be painted at the same time. Best of all, the laser would have the longest range in the game, allowing you to tag snipers and tanks in the redline. Life is killing me.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 804	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:33:00 - [24] - Quote I think the hacking speed bonus should be a staple of scout suits. They need to have an infiltrator base role.
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 278	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:36:00 - [25] - Quote I like a lot of these. I think we're pretty close to where the Scout should be because you can't make it FOTM stuff. Increase scan precision. Increase scan radius. I wouldn't touch speed. And I would really like to see a passive armor repair, like the Logis have now. Not nearly 5 hp per second like Logis, but maybe half that if you max out the suit. Scouts need to be self-sustaining because they should be used to actually scout way ahead of everyone else.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1014	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:49:00 - [26] - Quote everyone you ask will have a different opinion what the scout does, CCP has done a really good job of making sure it does all those roles but doesn't do them all at the same time. in fact they have done too good a job in that regard, the scout is amazing it can have 100+ meters of passive scan, or 700 hitpoints, or be completely unscanable. doing any of these things though means that it is hopelessly incompetent in all other areas. rolls of the scout: assassin (Rogues do it from behind) recon (I saw you coming from a mile away) ninja (you didn't see me coming) disruption specialist (in your base hacking your cannons) sniper ("it's a legitimate tactic!") if a scout has decent ehp, it isn't playing to it's strengths and relying too heavily on it's passives if a scout is fast; it isn't stealthy, has no scan range, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin if a scout has a good scan range; it isn't stealthy, fast, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin if a scout is stealthy; it isn't fast, has poor scan range, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin if a scout is sorta fast and sorta stealthy, it's relying on it's passives(which aren't very good) and isn't very good at anything. if a scout is a sniper, a logi is doing it better. at low tiers the scout is slot starved at all tiers the scout is ehp starved (scouts shouldn't have a lot of HP but they need more than they have) at all tiers is is cpu/pg starved it needs more stamina and speed and a longer scan range if I could fit a range extender, a cardiac reg, and the necessary tank on an ADV scout i would be so happy. a combination of slot starvation and well thought out but less than Ideal base stats forces the scout to specialize into one role at the complete neglect of all the necessary elements of a well balanced fit with good synergy. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 797	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:56:00 - [27] - Quote higher jump Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Foo Fighting Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 43	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:34:00 - [28] - Quote Faster ladder climbing - can't argue with that logic.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 800	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:30:00 - [29] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: everyone you ask will have a different opinion what the scout does, CCP has done a really good job of making sure it does all those roles but doesn't do them all at the same time. in fact they have done too good a job in that regard, the scout is amazing it can have 100+ meters of passive scan, or 700 hitpoints, or be completely unscanable. doing any of these things though means that it is hopelessly incompetent in all other areas. rolls of the scout: assassin (Rogues do it from behind) recon (I saw you coming from a mile away) ninja (you didn't see me coming) disruption specialist (in your base hacking your cannons) sniper ("it's a legitimate tactic!") if a scout has decent ehp, it isn't playing to it's strengths and relying too heavily on it's passives if a scout is fast; it isn't stealthy, has no scan range, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin if a scout has a good scan range; it isn't stealthy, fast, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin if a scout is stealthy; it isn't fast, has poor scan range, and its made of tissue paper and nitroglycerin if a scout is sorta fast and sorta stealthy, it's relying on it's passives(which aren't very good) and isn't very good at anything. if a scout is a sniper, a logi is doing it better. at low tiers the scout is slot starved at all tiers the scout is ehp starved (scouts shouldn't have a lot of HP but they need more than they have) at all tiers is is cpu/pg starved it needs more stamina and speed and a longer scan range if I could fit a range extender, a cardiac reg, and the necessary tank on an ADV scout i would be so happy. a combination of slot starvation and well thought out but less than Ideal base stats forces the scout to specialize into one role at the complete neglect of all the necessary elements of a well balanced fit with good synergy. Truer words have never been spoken. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 201	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:51:00 - [30] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: It just makes me furious to see some random armor tanked suit backpedal away just as fast I can move forward while trying to I'm trying to knife them I tried to like this 100 times, but unfortunately it wasn't possible. Nova knifing scout masochist. I would be a sadist, but CCP won't let me.

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