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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
9837
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:50:00 -
[61] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Are you comparing enforcers to pre 1.7 dropships?  I'm having troubles figuring out which one was more over-priced.
Clearly you didn't see the Enforcers that were rolling around.....when fit right they were ******* GODS.
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
The Phoenix Federation
301
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Are you comparing enforcers to pre 1.7 dropships? I'm having troubles figuring out which one was more over-priced. Assault dropships
I use a tablet so beware of typos
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Rusty Shallows
734
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Atiim wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? I believe he was being sarcastic. No I am dead serious. The ADS is very powerful when piloted well and not threatened by rail tanks. It is pretty close to perfect, though I would support a lower HP, higher speed, aircraft which mounted large turrets.
Holy crap I would have bet my left nut that O'Dell was being sarcastic. Time to rethink my position on this.
Tragic that more data points aren't available.
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Wow....a tanker thinks dropships are OP.....
snip
I know right?
You cannot buy this kind of entertainment. It is exactly why I love these forums.
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
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Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
204
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:56:00 -
[64] - Quote
Atiim wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:
For dropships not the tanks you want removed
Considering how a Python survived 3 shots from my Swarm Launcher (while in-hardened) I don't think they need any more resistance. And no, I don't want tanks to be removed. Why do you think that I want your 'precious' tanks gone? Because I don't say "buff! buff! buff!" every time I talk about them? Even from a personal standpoint, what benefit would I get from removing them? That would make my Swarm Launcher even more worthless than it already is.
I laugh, as I posted earlier a Dropship took 7 adv fully upgraded PLC shots and this was before they were buffed
Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
9837
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
The greatest balancing factor when it comes to dropships is the skill required to operate them effectively. I'm not saying that balance doesn't still need to addressed by tweaking and adjusting values, but the main thing keeping us in check is the very act of flying. No matter how well you fit your ship right now, if you make even one mistake that is often enough to send you up in flames.
Assault Dropship Montage
Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
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The Eristic
Sad Panda Solutions
117
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
I just want them (well, all vehicles, but especially dropships) to show up permanently on passive. They all have a huge profile according to the SDE (100-150 or some such) but they often won't show up unless they're pretty much right on top of you due to the way that passive range works and the speed at which they can move in and out of it. They're usually hard enough to spot "manually" and the sound helps very little when trying to work out how to engage or avoid them, making them more visible on passive would probably be enough to balance things out vs infantry for me. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
1280
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
I think that rail tanks are very unbalanced against DS, but if an ADS kill me, i always call a rail tank.
It's stronger than me, i can't bear being killed by an ADS and not search for revenge, i would use FG, but only DAU and upper tiers and i haven't skilled them on this character.
"Our Blueberries are better than yours"
My Terribad Bolas Launcher
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2179
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
Rails keep the skies clear
Intelligence is OP
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Aislin Nolan
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
28
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:I just want them (well, all vehicles, but especially dropships) to show up permanently on passive. They all have a huge profile according to the SDE (100-150 or some such) but they often won't show up unless they're pretty much right on top of you due to the way that passive range works and the speed at which they can move in and out of it. They're usually hard enough to spot "manually" and the sound helps very little when trying to work out how to engage or avoid them, making them more visible on passive would probably be enough to balance things out vs infantry for me.
I agree with this completely, its silly how many times i have rolled right up on a sniper with my tank and head shotted him with a rail cannon. And LAVs that run you down before you even knew they where there. |
SteelDark Knight
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
208
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Proof.
o7 - Sir Snuggles
In truth the answer is more complex in my mind. The OP is correct that without rails the DS in the current state of balance would be very, very, difficult to counter. However, ADS Pilots also have a valid point when they discuss red line tactics.
Rails, damage mods, and the red-line need tweaking for a variety of reasons including the concerns of DS pilots. However, turrets need a change in elevation range (i.e shoot higher) so that ADS pilots whom attack them have less of a area were they are invulnerable (which you currently can only counter via rolling in to roofed cover or the red-line). |
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Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
573
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Posted - 2014.01.10 16:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Op is unfounded. Slippery slope arguments are not useful. What we can't let happen is for rail tanks to lose too much elevation. Once they can't shoot up then we may have some issue with dropships. Step one is making sure no rail tank can shoot into the operational map zone from the redline. After that we have to assess how well they do.
I recorded the last 37 matches that I saw an ADS pilot not in my squad fly in. They never came first. The average kills was 7. With the highs being about 15. Compared to the top scorer in every match (dom/Skirm) who often topped 30 kills using rails/CR.
The truth is that even in a match with no AV dropships rarely ever out preform the top infantry players. While it is not a position we want to be in (uncontested) when talking about dropships and their impact on a battle you need to bear the measures of effectiveness in mind. What makes an ADS over powered? The OP implies kills. In that case they are far from OP. So what does a battlefield ruined by dropships look like? If we know that we can watch for it.
I see ADS die to forge and swarms often. So I do not think that ik tanks were all removed tomorrow that the ADS would start dominating. Tanks are not getting removed. Rail tanks can easily hit dropships from indoe the burn zone. At 250 meters a rail tank can shoot 284 meters into the air. ADS operate at 100 meters usually. A rail can hit that altitude from over 500m away.
Note : Operational map zones are those areas where objectives are contested Idk, man. Have you ever played with a few good tankers? ADS are crazy powerful. It was me, psychotic, ninja, serimaos, and....someone else with a tank and we TORE EVERYTHING UP! All I did was run scans, the 2 other tanks protected our dropships from other tanks, and the 2 dropships (ninja/seri) killed pretty much everything. When the Av did become something worth talkig about, Id ride in on a lav and shotgun 6 of them to death (3 dmg modded HK4M). The only thing that prevents a good ADS from going 25:0 every battle is a railgun (the same as the Surya in Chrome was only threatened by a triple dmg modded sagaris). We need the railgun tanks to counter dropships bc nothing else comes close. If a dropship is getting killed by rails, he should bring an OP rail tanker with him...even a UP rail tanker will do. lol. EDIT: To answer your recent comment, Ninja and Seri got more kills than Psychotic. In fact, in an OMS, I ONLY scanned and probably got 600 WP just from kill assists from their dropship kills.
Serimos*, and you're basing your entire reasoning for saying dropships are "OP" on one match you observed with us pilots in it, and I can assure you, that's NOT THE TYPICAL MATCH. The only reason we were able to score a good amount of kills in that match is because of the fact there were literally no AV (forge guns, swarms) or even tanks to oppose us. And to speak on the behalf of AV, they are still extremely effective, and their tiers work just as they should. Swarmers get mad at my "invincible" nature, but the truth is that I'm using what would be considered a proto-module and proto-passive skill dropship, and I can tell when I'm getting hit with a proto swarm, or an adv or basic. Adv or basic hardly do anything useful, but put me up against a proto just like myself and we have a problem, and isn't that the point of skilling your dropship to high levels? So it can take those adv and basics but still be challenged by proto? Same thing goes for forge guns, except even adv forges shoot me down 3/5 times. The only times that we're able to rake in kills is in the special matches where only basic/adv AV (or none at all) are on the battlefield, and we can just simply hover around a base being contested by our team and pelt the infantry that was on the ground, but even that TAKES SKILL, The idea that only railgun tanks are useful against us is completely a lie.
There are pilots who can't hit literally anything to save their life with missile launchers, I've witnessed it time and time again. And for people to start claiming that ADS will be overpowered? It's completely rediculous, it has taken veteran pilots literally months and years to get to the skill level they are at now, this isn't the result of CCP buffing us tremendously, in-fact we've recieved even less modules than we have had before, and an ADS is a GIANT SP SINK, meaning it would take someone who is seriously dedicated about flying to have a truly "powerful" assault dropship like many of us Vets do. I poored all 13 mil of my refunded SP into my dropship skills and i still didn't have enough for everything I wanted.
In essence, this OP is completely mis-informed, and honestly, the only people who should begin to make such accusations about dropships are veterans who have lots of experience in flying them, and believe me, if for a second I thought that they are "OP", I would let my voice be heard, and so would pilots like Judge Rhadamanthus. But the amount of ISK and SP that's required to create a truly effective dropship is far too high for it to be abused by others, because it would take a standard dust bunny tons of months before they could ever think of owning a proto-module and level 5 passive skilled dropship, even veterans I know haven't reached that level yet.
So please, stop with this speculation into what "could" happen, because it can't and it won't. I know you're upset that you ran into a few good pilots who knew what they were doing (and were in full squad communication with eachother), but don't think for a second that every single person who says "I wanna do that!" can simply pick up an ADS and start raking in kills, because that's just not true at all. |
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
2056
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:00:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dropships aint OP. Hell it takes much more skill to aim with a missile that has a tiny blast radius and the aiming mechanic is aswell akward (i fly a incubus). And most of the skilled dropship pilots on the EU server know that it is not a smart choice to bring that out while im on the opposite team. A ishukone assault forgegun with 2 damage mods is still a deadly force against dropships. 2-3 hits and they fall down like a brick. Which is fair cause they need to get aswell like 4 hits with missiles on me while im shoting them with a forgegun. Plus a hit with the forgegun shakes the dropship which means their aiming is off the target.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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Kierkegaard Soren
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
94
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Posted - 2014.01.10 17:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
ADS have a natural predator.
It's called Gravity.
Tanks do not have deal with that. I respect any ADS pilot who can hover over and around an installation and smash infantry apart without going nose first into a staircase (seen it happen. Hilarious.)
Dedicated Commando.
So it's a good job KDR doesn't bother me, really.
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Lt Royal
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2700
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Posted - 2014.02.08 12:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
The main problem with rail tanks is the fact they camp in the redline and you can't do anything about it. You can call in another tank to counter it but once you kill them, theyGÇÖll just call in another and still sit in that redline.
Also the crazy elevation their main turrets have (45-¦) needs to be slightly reduced to maybe 35-¦....
I think ADS should have a passive resist to Large Rail turrets, either that or the redline needs to be so no damage can be done in or out of it.
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2431
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Posted - 2014.02.08 13:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:ADS have a natural predator.
It's called Gravity.
Tanks do not have deal with that. I respect any ADS pilot who can hover over and around an installation and smash infantry apart without going nose first into a staircase (seen it happen. Hilarious.)
No
Intelligence is OP
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Beld Errmon
0uter.Heaven
1298
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Posted - 2014.02.08 15:08:00 -
[76] - Quote
Aislin Nolan wrote:Im a tanker by trade, every SP i have is in tanking, but every so often i like to mix it up by running a uplink MLT suit and get my hands dirty. I was in several matches today where very few tanks where called in and it was ADSs every where every time, using their OP splash missle launchers to rain down on us from perfect angels where cover isnt worth crap. And while there are some mainly indoor maps, there are plenty were the main opjective of domination or skimishes are completely open to arial attacks, and even roofs or places tanks cant fit arnt safe from ADS. Bad thing is unlike a tank, drop ships dont even have to worry about remots, and AV nades, esily out run swarms, and can dodge forge guns enough to ust kill their operators.
So yeah keep QQing over tanks, but when they are gone its not like you will be free from an even worse fate.
as a regular ADS pilot I can say that you are a re-tard that should have been dealt with before birth, i need not read beyond your thread title to come to this conclusion. |
Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
168
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Posted - 2014.02.08 15:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
It would also be nice if they made the other small turrets viable.
Missiles need separated into two groups; missiles and rockets.
Missiles would focus on long range (current range), low ROF, high damage missiles. It's shaped charges make it have next to no splash radius but it deals with other vehicles very well.
Rockets would have far more shots per clip than missiles would focus on splash damge with short-range (100m), high ROF missile barrages that are effective vs LAVs and infantry but lack the shaped charges needed to deal with HAVs.
Blasters (if they opened up it's spread like the HMG) would be able to mow down infantry and and deal good damage to vehicles, in exchange it has to get exceedingly close (~40m) to deal good damage. So much so you can very well throw an AV grenade at it so it would very vulnerable to almost all forms of AV in exchange for it's damage and flexibility.
Rails need their resistances changes so the do closer to full damage against vehicles/installations. This would allow them to deal great damage to vehicles/installations but on a dropship it is next to impossible to hit infantry (even with the Incubus's ROF increase). Thus making it more of an exclusive AV weapon for a dropship.
Result:
-Rockets are good vs infantry and LAVs but a rail or missile dropship can apply much better damage to it than it can return.
-Blasters are good vs everything but their severe lack of range leaves them very vulnerable to AV fire, terrain, and unable to effectively do dropship dogfights.
-Rails are good vs other vehicles but are almost useless vs infantry
-Missiles are poor vs infantry but excel vs other vehicles |
Takron Nistrom
Tinfoil Hatz
196
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Posted - 2014.02.08 15:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
What does aiming down sights have to do with tanks? 
GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥
GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
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