DUST Search - Tank spam is the only thing saving us from ADS spam!

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

Op is unfounded. Slippery slope arguments are not useful. What we can't let happen is for rail tanks to lose too much elevation. Once they can't shoot up then we may have some issue with dropships. Step one is making sure no rail tank can shoot into the operational map zone from the redline. After that we have to assess how well they do.

I recorded the last 37 matches that I saw an ADS pilot not in my squad fly in. They never came first. The average kills was 7. With the highs being about 15. Compared to the top scorer in every match (dom/Skirm) who often topped 30 kills using rails/CR.

The truth is that even in a match with no AV dropships rarely ever out preform the top infantry players. While it is not a position we want to be in (uncontested) when talking about dropships and their impact on a battle you need to bear the measures of effectiveness in mind. What makes an ADS over powered? The OP implies kills. In that case they are far from OP. So what does a battlefield ruined by dropships look like? If we know that we can watch for it.

I see ADS die to forge and swarms often. So I do not think that ik tanks were all removed tomorrow that the ADS would start dominating. Tanks are not getting removed. Rail tanks can easily hit dropships from indoe the burn zone. At 250 meters a rail tank can shoot 284 meters into the air. ADS operate at 100 meters usually. A rail can hit that altitude from over 500m away.

Note : Operational map zones are those areas where objectives are contested

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Aislin Nolan Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [1] - Quote Im a tanker by trade, every SP i have is in tanking, but every so often i like to mix it up by running a uplink MLT suit and get my hands dirty. I was in several matches today where very few tanks where called in and it was ADSs every where every time, using their OP splash missle launchers to rain down on us from perfect angels where cover isnt worth crap. And while there are some mainly indoor maps, there are plenty were the main opjective of domination or skimishes are completely open to arial attacks, and even roofs or places tanks cant fit arnt safe from ADS. Bad thing is unlike a tank, drop ships dont even have to worry about remots, and AV nades, esily out run swarms, and can dodge forge guns enough to ust kill their operators. So yeah keep QQing over tanks, but when they are gone its not like you will be free from an even worse fate.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 296	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:56:00 - [2] - Quote Aislin Nolan wrote: Im a tanker by trade, every SP i have is in tanking, but every so often i like to mix it up by running a uplink MLT suit and get my hands dirty. I was in several matches today where very few tanks where called in and it was ADSs every where every time, using their OP splash missle launchers to rain down on us from perfect angels where cover isnt worth crap. And while there are some mainly indoor maps, there are plenty were the main opjective of domination or skimishes are completely open to arial attacks, and even roofs or places tanks cant fit arnt safe from ADS. Bad thing is unlike a tank, drop ships dont even have to worry about remots, and AV nades, esily out run swarms, and can dodge forge guns enough to ust kill their operators. So yeah keep QQing over tanks, but when they are gone its not like you will be free from an even worse fate. Ads are more expensive and fragile I use a tablet so beware of typos
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3252	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:58:00 - [3] - Quote You' be told me nothing that I didn't already know. CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 744	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:05:00 - [4] - Quote Aislin Nolan wrote: Im a tanker by trade, every SP i have is in tanking, but every so often i like to mix it up by running a uplink MLT suit and get my hands dirty. I was in several matches today where very few tanks where called in and it was ADSs every where every time, using their OP splash missle launchers to rain down on us from perfect angels where cover isnt worth crap. And while there are some mainly indoor maps, there are plenty were the main opjective of domination or skimishes are completely open to arial attacks, and even roofs or places tanks cant fit arnt safe from ADS. Bad thing is unlike a tank, drop ships dont even have to worry about remots, and AV nades, esily out run swarms, and can dodge forge guns enough to ust kill their operators. So yeah keep QQing over tanks, but when they are gone its not like you will be free from an even worse fate. Nerfed out AV is the only thing that's supporting this Tank and DS spam
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 257	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:14:00 - [5] - Quote HAVs have incredible advantages over ADSs: - They are substantially cheaper to run: the ADS hull costs 322,000 ISK alone - They have much, much more cover - They are much more resilient (which is absolutely fine) - They have much more powerful weapons (ie, Large vs Small, though the missiles could be argued) Assault Dropships are very powerful when they get the drop on groups of infantry, and can even take HAVs. But the Assault Dropship is actually relatively balanced with Forge Guns and even Swarm Launchers do substantial damage to the ADS, although not when the ADS is running Hardeners.
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 45	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:20:00 - [6] - Quote the problem lies with redline tanks. pilots don't have a problem with tanks in general we have a problem with a tank that cannot be dealt with by us or our team due to the BS archaic redline mechanic. you are free to fire at us while never having to look over your shoulder or god forbid actually leave the redline to enter the match. with no plan in sight and no priority or disussion given to this blaring very old issue. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 209	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:23:00 - [7] - Quote ADS are annoying yes but SKILLED FG'ers can pop them. ADS arent very scary once you hit them 2 times with a GF and they are running. Then all it takes is 1 shot to kill them as they fly away in a straight line. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:26:00 - [8] - Quote ADS are pretty easy to kill Call in a viper or a gorgon with afterburners and just ram into them. That's what I always do lol GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2714	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:30:00 - [9] - Quote Wow....a tanker thinks dropships are OP..... I went for almost a year with my dropship being slightly more useful than a paper weight.....now I can actually fly around and take some damage before I have to flip on the overdrive and fly away. At least you tanks can hide.....us dropship pilots only have the wide open sky....and the ground if your skilled enough to fly slightly above the ground. My assault dropship is fine. NOW LEAVE IT ALONE!!!! Proud member of the Commando 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:31:00 - [10] - Quote Your forge guns force us to run and hide because the second hit will kill us. We can tank your swarm missiles until our brief 'window of opportunity' closes and then we have to run. If you haven't forced us to crash into the nearest structure before then. Large missile batteries and rail guns knock us from the skies and keep us from flying. You try being an Assault Dropship pilot and you'll see how risky the job is. I'd like to know which matches you've been fighting in because nearly every match I've been in since 1.7 has been a struggle to stay airborne and snag a few kills. I've had maybe two fights where I've been able to dominate the ground forces. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1162	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 - [11] - Quote Op is unfounded. Slippery slope arguments are not useful. What we can't let happen is for rail tanks to lose too much elevation. Once they can't shoot up then we may have some issue with dropships. Step one is making sure no rail tank can shoot into the active map area from the redline. After that we have to assess how well they do. I recorded the last 37 matches that I saw an ADS pilot not in my squad fly in. They never came first. The average kills was 7. With the highs being about 15. Compared to the top scorer in every match (dom/Skirm) who often topped 30 kills using rails/CR. The truth is that even in a match with no AV dropships rarely ever out preform the top infantry players. While it is not a position we want to be in (uncontested) when talking about dropships and their impact on a battle you need to bear the measures of effectiveness in mind. What makes an ADS over powered? The OP implies kills. In that case they are far from OP. So what does a battlefield ruined by dropships look like? If we know that we can watch for it. I see ADS die to forge and swarms often. So I do not think that ik tanks were all removed tomorrow that the ADS would start dominating. Tanks are not getting removed. Rail tanks can easily hit dropships from indoe the burn zone. At 250 meters a rail tank can shoot 284 meters into the air. ADS operate at 100 meters usually. A rail can hit that altitude from over 500m away. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1537	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:40:00 - [12] - Quote Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1163	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:43:00 - [13] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1537	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:43:00 - [14] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Op is unfounded. Slippery slope arguments are not useful. What we can't let happen is for rail tanks to lose too much elevation. Once they can't shoot up then we may have some issue with dropships. Step one is making sure no rail tank can shoot into the operational map zone from the redline. After that we have to assess how well they do. I recorded the last 37 matches that I saw an ADS pilot not in my squad fly in. They never came first. The average kills was 7. With the highs being about 15. Compared to the top scorer in every match (dom/Skirm) who often topped 30 kills using rails/CR. The truth is that even in a match with no AV dropships rarely ever out preform the top infantry players. While it is not a position we want to be in (uncontested) when talking about dropships and their impact on a battle you need to bear the measures of effectiveness in mind. What makes an ADS over powered? The OP implies kills. In that case they are far from OP. So what does a battlefield ruined by dropships look like? If we know that we can watch for it. I see ADS die to forge and swarms often. So I do not think that ik tanks were all removed tomorrow that the ADS would start dominating. Tanks are not getting removed. Rail tanks can easily hit dropships from indoe the burn zone. At 250 meters a rail tank can shoot 284 meters into the air. ADS operate at 100 meters usually. A rail can hit that altitude from over 500m away. Note : Operational map zones are those areas where objectives are contested Idk, man. Have you ever played with a few good tankers? ADS are crazy powerful. It was me, psychotic, ninja, serimaos, and....someone else with a tank and we TORE EVERYTHING UP! All I did was run scans, the 2 other tanks protected our dropships from other tanks, and the 2 dropships (ninja/seri) killed pretty much everything. When the Av did become something worth talkig about, Id ride in on a lav and shotgun 6 of them to death (3 dmg modded HK4M). The only thing that prevents a good ADS from going 25:0 every battle is a railgun (the same as the Surya in Chrome was only threatened by a triple dmg modded sagaris). We need the railgun tanks to counter dropships bc nothing else comes close. If a dropship is getting killed by rails, he should bring an OP rail tanker with him...even a UP rail tanker will do. lol. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3252	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:45:00 - [15] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? I believe he was being sarcastic. CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1537	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? I believe he was being sarcastic. No I am dead serious. The ADS is very powerful when piloted well and not threatened by rail tanks. It is pretty close to perfect, though I would support a lower HP, higher speed, aircraft which mounted large turrets. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 579	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [17] - Quote Lolololololol As if ADSs are some god-form vehicle that can only be taken out by tank spam. Heck one tank is enough to keep the entire sky clear of dropships from the redline! Besides, AV does a better job of countering dropships than it does tanks. One forge knocks dropships on their heads every hit, plus the large HP of suit makes them hard to kill quick enough. Swarms knock up for a loop every volley and can auto lock while the shooter ducks back into cover. You must be a very bad AVer if you skip straight to the truly OP railgun tank to take out a dropship. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 27 Gêå2 1/1
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1165	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [18] - Quote Look Charlotte I am certainly watching for situations like this but you are describing teamwork between a squad, tanks and ADS. this is not what we are talking about at all. You describe : "Tanks supporting dropships with infantry backup wout mean that ADS would be OP if the other team which may not have had squads or AV but maybe a tank or two" makes ADS op. Squad me with these groups and we can do 20 matches. IF the ADS scores top above the best 3 infantry in 13 matches than we might have an issue to review Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 633	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:50:00 - [19] - Quote Hahahaha, I love these threads. My dropship relies on skill, experience and good module usage. I can be one shorted by a breach forge gun if I don't have my hardeners on. With my hardeners on I can actually fight back against a forge gun, but I have a limited time to engage. In fact I usually only have about a 30 second window to get in kill what I can and get out. Most infantry have no idea how to deal with a good assault dropship/pilot. Which is no surprise considering they were just shot down for trying in previous builds. Most reds respond by firing at me with their light weapons, like they are expecting to damage my dropship! In reality they are telling me where they are, they shouldn't act surprised that my XT missile launcher kills them when they give away their position. The best advice I can offer, when you hear a dropship or see the ground around you light up from the dropships flood lights, Run, use cover and throw off his aim. Don't try and shoot at it with an ar, that's how you die. Av is pretty balanced against dropships right now, tanks aren't. Anyway there is a factor you are forgetting that is preventing assault dropship spam. It takes a lot of isk to learn how to fly, and flying dropships is no easy task. Its much harder than driving a tank, and costs a lot more too. The reason you see assault dropship pilots working together is because the pilot community is pretty close, and squadrons work together to eliminate threats and cover each others back. No dust mercs just aren't use to sky sharks being effective, but they can be countered. Tanks are just bs all around.
Aramis Madrigal SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 92	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:50:00 - [20] - Quote I'd actually like to see assault dropships buffed vs. HAVs. Close support aircraft have traditionally been good tank busters. This could add an interesting dynamic where dedicated AA vehicles would be useful. I think this was mentioned as a potential role for MAVs. MAVs would be weak vs. HAVs while excelling in the anti-air role, ADS would be weak vs AA but excel in killing HAVs and HAVs would be good at killing MAVs, along with everything else they can currently do. -Aramis

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7741	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:50:00 - [21] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Atiim wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? I believe he was being sarcastic. No I am dead serious. The ADS is very powerful when piloted well and not threatened by rail tanks. It is pretty close to perfect, though I would support a lower HP, higher speed, aircraft which mounted large turrets. It is very effective at suppressing areas. I'm not so sure it's 'overpowered'. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Aislin Nolan Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 25	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:47:00 - [22] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Atiim wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? I believe he was being sarcastic. No I am dead serious. The ADS is very powerful when piloted well and not threatened by rail tanks. It is pretty close to perfect, though I would support a lower HP, higher speed, aircraft which mounted large turrets. It is very effective at suppressing areas. I'm not so sure it's 'overpowered'. Well i personaly never said they where overpowered, tho i did say small missle turrets where over powered. What i did say was that with a absance of rail tanks they will be spamed, which , in my oponion is worse than tank spam for reason i mentioned.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 376	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:58:00 - [23] - Quote /faceplam Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 164	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:59:00 - [24] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Wow....a tanker thinks dropships are OP..... I went for almost a year with my dropship being slightly more useful than a paper weight.....now I can actually fly around and take some damage before I have to flip on the overdrive and fly away. At least you tanks can hide.....us dropship pilots only have the wide open sky....and the ground if your skilled enough to fly slightly above the ground. My assault dropship is fine. NOW LEAVE IT ALONE!!!! you will have better luck with an afterburner. overdrives are for ground use.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 300	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:01:00 - [25] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: ADS are annoying yes but ANY FG'ers can pop them. ADS arent very scary once you hit them 2 times with a GF and they are running. Then all it takes is 1 shot to kill them as they fly away in a straight line. They take no skill to hit a python wtf? I use a tablet so beware of typos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 300	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:09:00 - [26] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Atiim wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Spread the word! We need rails to stay powerful, or ADS will become the most OP thing since the Duvolle and fore the same reason. What is your evidence for this? I don't mean a hypothesis. What do you base this claim on. In matches with no tanks I see dropships doing fair to average. What is your evidence for your claim? And for the same reason? Because they have zero kick and a 60 bullet clip? This comment is alarmest and makes no sense. Can you explain? I believe he was being sarcastic. No I am dead serious. The ADS is very powerful when piloted well and not threatened by rail tanks. It is pretty close to perfect, though I would support a lower HP, higher speed, aircraft which mounted large turrets. It is very effective at suppressing areas. I'm not so sure it's 'overpowered'. Well i personaly never said they where overpowered, tho i did say small missle turrets where over powered. What i did say was that with a absance of rail tanks they will be spamed, which , in my oponion is worse than tank spam for reason i mentioned.[/quote] No, they wont they are alot more expensive l2av I use a tablet so beware of typos
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 202	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:12:00 - [27] - Quote I fought a ADS with a PLC once ontop one of the tables, it was awesome like a bossfight he of course survived (maxed out PLC does less than a swarm) but I hit him 7 times total before he stopped fighting me thus I don't mind ADS's killing me Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9831	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:13:00 - [28] - Quote Swarms need a buff, forge guns are basically perfectly balanced towards dropships right now, but it's a skill vs skill scenario. Plasma cannon is a joke. Railguns need to have more elevation so we can finally solve the redline. The cheap mans anti dropship fit is an LAV with a damage mod and a railgun. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 300	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:17:00 - [29] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Swarms need a buff, forge guns are basically perfectly balanced towards dropships right now, but it's a skill vs skill scenario. Plasma cannon is a joke. Railguns need to have more elevation so we can finally solve the redline. The assault forge guns are still too strong stat wise and all assault varients do less damage, my python gets 2 shotted sometimes, and the breach fg is still overpowerec, lower charge time slight then reduce its ******* damage Or give dropships a resistancd to that bullshit I use a tablet so beware of typos
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9831	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:18:00 - [30] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Swarms need a buff, forge guns are basically perfectly balanced towards dropships right now, but it's a skill vs skill scenario. Plasma cannon is a joke. Railguns need to have more elevation so we can finally solve the redline. The assault forge guns are still too strong stat wise and all assault varients do less damage, my python gets 2 shotted sometimes, and the breach fg is still overpowerec, lower charge time slight then reduce its ******* damage Or give dropships a resistancd to that bullshit I think shields might need a little buff then, because they seem pretty balanced against my Incubus. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict



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