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CCP Remnant wrote:

Asha Starwind wrote:

CCP Remnant wrote:

Yeah... gotta love those BSD updates. Shocked

We were planning to release the bundled up stats for 1.8 changes next week (2nd sprint ends next week) so that we had plenty of time to get feedback from everyone and implement any necessary changes.

Too many specific issues to address (otherwise I'd be posting all day and not getting any actual authoring work done) but please keep in mind that everything on SiSi is not final. That doesn't mean that they will change, only that they can. There's plenty of time to provide constructive criticism and for us to act on that feedback.

Could we at least get a primer on how cloaking mechanics work so people can stop jumping conclusion and inferred speculation based on one line of info.

- The cloak field is a piece of equipment.
- When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it.
- Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked.
- You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it.
- Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire.
- Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge.
- Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you)
- You can only fit one cloak field at a time.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
George Moros Area 514 259	Posted - 2014.01.09 12:44:00 - [61] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: CLOAKING IN DUST MUST NOT HAPPEN UNTIL THE GAMES BALANCE IS ABLE TO SUPPORT IT!!! But, you can't really know whether game's balance is able to support cloaking if you don't have cloaking, can you? I mean, you can have a perfectly balanced game without cloaking, and after you implement it, things could still go to hell quite easily. Although it's hard to tell how exactly will cloaking affect the game without knowing all the details (which is the point of my post, after all), there are several issues raised here, the most important being whether it should be possible to fire cloaked. Being able to fire cloaked will surely give the cloaker advantage of first shot(s), which is, considering the current TTK, a potentially big problem. Just imagine a cloaked shotgun scout with the "first (head)shot is risk free" ability. I admit, it sounds pretty scary. Secondly, it's not just the scouts we have to worry about. What about assaults, and especially logis? Is the CPU/PG cost of the cloaking device high enough to sufficiently cripple the fitting options of those classes, so cloaks don't become the new FOTM for everyone? Maybe the solution to this would be to make firing while cloaked possible only for scouts, and not for other classes. Lastly, some people worry about cloaked (redline) snipers, which is IMHO not justified. If you think that a sniper camping in redline will perform better if he cloaks, fires a shot, decloaks, hides and waits for cloak cooldown to expire, then recloaks and repeats all that after every shot, I think you are mistaken. For snipers, cloaking is not that important - most people can't see them anyway. On the other hand, cloaking will make counter-sniping much easier, and I think most of you will agree that is a good thing. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines 2004	Posted - 2014.01.09 12:49:00 - [62] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. As a min scout my concern is that this 'shimmer' will be so noticeable that it will make approaching an enemy very difficult, while at the same time I can't 'lurk' (not camping...cough) an objective due to the removal of the profile reduction skill Ha, be lucky we can't hear foot steps so well, it deserves to be difficult still and I doubt after an hours practice it will be difficult. Its only going to be as difficult as your enemy is skilled. Level 2 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
dust badger SOUND Mercs Of Sound Mind 359	Posted - 2014.01.09 12:53:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah... gotta love those BSD updates. We were planning to release the bundled up stats for 1.8 changes next week (2nd sprint ends next week) so that we had plenty of time to get feedback from everyone and implement any necessary changes. Too many specific issues to address (otherwise I'd be posting all day and not getting any actual authoring work done) but please keep in mind that everything on SiSi is not final. That doesn't mean that they will change, only that they can. There's plenty of time to provide constructive criticism and for us to act on that feedback. Could we at least get a primer on how cloaking mechanics work so people can stop jumping conclusion and inferred speculation based on one line of info. - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. Thanks for the info CCP Remnant, what effect does shooting a cloaked merc have ?
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 423	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:04:00 - [64] - Quote Quote: 3. Scanners disrupt cloaks. Disagree with this one. It'd be so easy to defeat the cloak they'd be practically useless. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1348	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:25:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. I am still extremely wary that "fire while cloaked" could quickly to lead to miserable gameplay. The critical question here is, what happens if the shots fired don't fully deplete the cloak? Is fully depleting the cloak necessary for the user to appear on a scan, or to have a chevron? My concern is over the ability to sneak up and headshot a victim with a scrambler pistol while only partially depleting the cloak field, allowing a user to obtain kills without ever fully decloaking. At the end of the day "gotcha" kills can be really boring and obnoxious in a game trying to be even remotely tactical. If you listen carefully to the community, I really think the heart of the TTK frustration is linked to this very same experience. Players like to know how how they died and to have an opportunity to defend themselves, and I don't see any window of opportunity for victims to respond to a "gotcha" moment given the proposed cloak mechanics. The cloak, to me, should be an infiltration tool and nothing more. A way to sneak near an enemy despite strong presence nearby. There is a very fine line between an infiltration tool and a combat trick - and its the evasion capability of the cloak that has the strongest value in the current combat meta, especially given the power level of scanners. I even believe a cloak could evade all scanners completely, as long as the user has to put the cloak away before they draw a weapon. That's not to say that such a model wouldn't empower Scouts to excel as stealthy assassins, there is still immense power and fun to be had evading scanners and flanking an enemy even if you appear on their radar only seconds before you open fire. Sure, heavies have a quick turn speed these days, but I can see many ways to still get the jump on one before he can respond (especially if Scouts hunt in packs). I strongly urge your team to consider having the operator hold the cortex in hand for the duration of the time the user is cloaked. This way players have a choice between stealth travel and normal combat, while keeping the two distinct enough that the overlap doesn't create broken situations. Its a subtle difference, that still preserves your original intent for the cloak. Thanks again for sharing this with the community, I look forward to discussing this more in the coming weeks.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 280	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:25:00 - [66] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Devs dont even know for sure whats going to be in 1.8. You just got 1.7, chill out. I got it a month ago, also, forum firestorm. firestorm I use a tablet so beware of typos
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 230	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:27:00 - [67] - Quote Give cloak and uncloak distinctive sound. Switch to gun = uncloak. Learn from the scanner debacle and give it a high cooldown.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2169	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:40:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. TBH i hope that scanners cant pick you up when cloaked because then that makes it useless in my book Intelligence is OP
steadyhand amarr Bragian Order Amarr Empire 2125	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:47:00 - [69] - Quote Question would placing an RE declock you. Also im guessing knives will trig a declock. Oh god the horror im going to cause in 1.8 plantside1 tought me a LOT of usefull skills :-P "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
ell armana Nyain San Renegade Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:50:00 - [70] - Quote CCP! I saw the information for the new assault suit EVE SiSi server! And I was disappointed was! Despair! I so sad! C C P!! Want you to think again! Oppose it to change the Amarr assault skills! The bonus must-have for those who use laser weapons Amarr assault bonus! We should decrease the heating bonus scrambler rifle operation & laser rifle operation if you change if! I can not understand is that you turn off the feature only in the maximum of Amager Assault!

Acturus Galaxy Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 331	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:51:00 - [71] - Quote Reiki Jubo wrote: Give cloak and uncloak distinctive sound. Switch to gun = uncloak. Learn from the scanner debacle and give it a high cooldown. No, that would make it unuseable. I can already sneak up on merc and headshot them with my shotgun as Gallente scout, will be unuseable if it makes a sound before I get the shot. - My guess is that the cloak device will cost allot of resources even with the 50% bonus to proto scouts. - The scout can no longer have any other equipment added, will run out of ammunition, cannot place droplinks while behind enemi line. - The cloaking device have to have a similar benefit as having other equipment added - The cloaked scout is still visible if you are looking the direction of a moving scout with the shimmering aura. I doubt the cloak will last long enough to reliable camp while stationary. Scout today: - I can sneak up on mercs and headshot from behind, will only slightly improve my chance of success. - Will die if an assault gets visual contact with my skinny scout, cloak will help keep me alive - Gets lots of warpoints from droplinks and helping team allot, not possible with cloak device - Behind enemy lines I rely on my own nano hives for repair and ammo supply, not possible with cloaking devices - Can plant remote explosives, not possible with cloaking device. I doubt I would use the cloaking device 24/7, as it has allot of drawbacks as well. We do not yet know the duration and cooldown times of the device. It will be situational and not necessary overpowered. Anoying yes, as it always is to be shot in the back by an invisible merc, I already practice this today. Many maps already allow me to camp an objective, use my scan radius and dampening to be invisible and run up and shoot the hacker. I would be dumb using cloak and camping right on top of the nullcanon in clear sight of the red dot. He can quickly "scan" the area around the null canon and check if his marker turns red.
Weznof Nalek What The French 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 13:52:00 - [72] - Quote Patch 1.8 = Revenge of heavys
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 337	Posted - 2014.01.09 14:36:00 - [73] - Quote If a scout does manage to sneak up on you and get a stealth kill, he will most likely decloak immediately or soon after at which point he's left with a cooldown and weak armor in a world of amped up HP and damage among the big boys. I don't think there will be many running around the front line due to the shimmer and due to the finite nature of the cloak time. To me cloaking seems like something that will give scouts 'wave of opportunity' (like that of the active mods on tanks) to be a ghost before being vulnerable again. This wave could be used to get from A to B unseen or to take out the straddler on the outskirts and for these purposes it will be very effective, like how a heavy is effective in CQC. Scout's weak armor will always be what levels the playing field. If they got a second slot I'd wager that more than a cloaked scout killing you with his weapon, it'd be more the RE's he left, or the team who spawned on his uplink you're contending with. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4396	Posted - 2014.01.09 14:37:00 - [74] - Quote So what is supposed to be the counter to cloaks? Can every suit wear one? True sentinels heavies hiding in a cloak at the letters. More effective than a pocket full of REs
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2482	Posted - 2014.01.09 14:40:00 - [75] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: So what is supposed to be the counter to cloaks? Can every suit wear one? True sentinels heavies hiding in a cloak at the letters. More effective than a pocket full of REs The active scanner is supposed to be the counter. You'll see them on TacNet and your weapon sight will highlight them. I'm thinking this is what CCP had in mind and why they haven't tweaked the scanner yet. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Lucifalic Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 182	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:04:00 - [76] - Quote McFurious wrote: Quote: 3. Scanners disrupt cloaks. Disagree with this one. It'd be so easy to defeat the cloak they'd be practically useless. I disagree but with a condition. That being your cloak is deactivated if the scanner beats your profile signature. This way logi and assault its need to heavily dampen their suits to have full use of a cloak thereby reducing their armor. Scouts would benefit from the low signatures as intended making it really only useful for scouts and niche situations.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 282	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:07:00 - [77] - Quote Lucifalic wrote: McFurious wrote: Quote: 3. Scanners disrupt cloaks. Disagree with this one. It'd be so easy to defeat the cloak they'd be practically useless. I disagree but with a condition. That being your cloak is deactivated if the scanner beats your profile signature. This way logi and assault its need to heavily dampen their suits to have full use of a cloak thereby reducing their armor. Scouts would benefit from the low signatures as intended making it really only useful for scouts and niche situations. The scout needs at least 27 db because if not, then no because of the op galogi bonus I use a tablet so beware of typos
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1512	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:09:00 - [78] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Devs dont even know for sure whats going to be in 1.8. You just got 1.7, chill out. I got it a month ago, also, forum firestorm. To me it seemed like christmas was the end of the monthly patch cycle. So 1.8 will come later and will be bigger. Or so I guess. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Lucifalic Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 183	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:13:00 - [79] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Lucifalic wrote: McFurious wrote: Quote: 3. Scanners disrupt cloaks. Disagree with this one. It'd be so easy to defeat the cloak they'd be practically useless. I disagree but with a condition. That being your cloak is deactivated if the scanner beats your profile signature. This way logi and assault its need to heavily dampen their suits to have full use of a cloak thereby reducing their armor. Scouts would benefit from the low signatures as intended making it really only useful for scouts and niche situations. The scout needs at least 27 db because if not, then no because of the op galogi bonus Agree hence my edit.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 599	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:13:00 - [80] - Quote So Caldari Scout will be able to fire the most while cloaked And will most likely have range on their side as well. In your blind spot

Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1885	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:16:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Yeah... gotta love those BSD updates. We were planning to release the bundled up stats for 1.8 changes next week (2nd sprint ends next week) so that we had plenty of time to get feedback from everyone and implement any necessary changes. Too many specific issues to address (otherwise I'd be posting all day and not getting any actual authoring work done) but please keep in mind that everything on SiSi is not final. That doesn't mean that they will change, only that they can. There's plenty of time to provide constructive criticism and for us to act on that feedback. I only ask because I it is tradition. Hacking bonus for scouts? Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9817	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:18:00 - [82] - Quote Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: I strongly urge your team to consider having the operator hold the cortex in hand for the duration of the time the user is cloaked. Switching to a weapon would drop the cortex as well as the cloak effect. This way players have a choice between stealth travel and normal combat, while keeping the two distinct enough that the overlap doesn't create broken situations. Its a subtle difference, that still preserves your original intent for the cloak.. As someone who would use an infantry respec to go cloaked scout, I agree 100% Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 118	Posted - 2014.01.09 15:50:00 - [83] - Quote I would like to vote to try what CCP has in mind for cloaking before we decide on changes. They been play testing it for a while and while CCP doesn't have the best track record for play testing, I for one would like to see what the have come up with and play. If it is really that bad we will have a few months of crazy op threads and CCP will bring in the super nerf hammer like normal. So I vote for let the fire while cloaked happen, remember these are bonused scout suites how much HP are they going to have? A sniper with a cloak.. he fires and he could be instantly countersniped by a milita sniper rifle. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 778	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:02:00 - [84] - Quote Two words: cloaked sniper. Munch Munch for CPM 1 Campaign Headquarters
George Moros Area 514 263	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:08:00 - [85] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Two words: cloaked sniper. Two words: so what? Pulvereus ergo queritor.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 764	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:10:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. this is crying out op. really ccp what was wrong with eve cloak mechanics. they work. why do you have to makeup completely new ones which are op as hell. shooting through cloak, changing weapons while cloaked. and what's with the recharge... that better have a use limit and a very long recharge time. im just waiting for "invisible 514" the only combat game out there where no one can see anyone to kill https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 288	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:12:00 - [87] - Quote crysis 2 says hi I use a tablet so beware of typos
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 757	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:50:00 - [88] - Quote Regarding decloaking before shooting, this would make sniping with a cloak effectively useless since you'll have the scope sway to deal with. I was hoping cloaked snipers would bring them out of the redline and into more strategic locations on the map. Stealth bombers in EVE have 0 delay between decloaking and targeting. Perhaps the solution is to have scout suits be able to fire while cloaked, all others would have heavy fitting costs and require decloaking first before firing. I do think you should immediately decloak 100% once you fire any weapon or pass within x meters of an uncloaked player/vehicle however. I'd also like to see deployable beacons that decloak anything in x radius. I also think cloaks should ignore active scanners, but there should be a new proto active scanner that would only detect cloaks. It would have limited range and a long delay. As far as getting the game perfectly balanced before adding cloaks, I completely disagree. The scout suits CAN'T BE BALANCED UNTIL WE HAVE CLOAKS. I don't want to play for 18 months with scouts being ridiculously underpowered before they get their turn for balancing. Also TTK needs to be addressed, or else the cloak will be ridiculously OP. With the peek-a-boo shooter that we currently have, whoever gets the drop on the other player is 85% likely to win. If TTK was slightly longer than it was in 1.4-1.5 cloaking would be a major advantage in certain circumstances but not a guaranteed trump card. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 676	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:13:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Could we at least get a primer on how cloaking mechanics work so people can stop jumping conclusion and inferred speculation based on one line of info. - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - ... Thanks for the bundle of details. However, there's still a crucial point of information missing: will scouts have to choose between cloak, OR carrying uplinks? Are they going to get an extra slot just for cloaks or something like that? Also please understand that if your answer is "no extra slot", then you're going to get a WHOOLE bunch of pissed off scouts, becoming ex-scouts, and turning to gallente logi instead. Is that what you guys are aiming for?
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 601	Posted - 2014.01.09 17:14:00 - [90] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I would like to vote to try what CCP has in mind for cloaking before we decide on changes. They been play testing it for a while and while CCP doesn't have the best track record for play testing, I for one would like to see what the have come up with and play. If it is really that bad we will have a few months of crazy op threads and CCP will bring in the super nerf hammer like normal. So I vote for let the fire while cloaked happen, remember these are bonused scout suites how much HP are they going to have? A sniper with a cloak.. he fires and he could be instantly countersniped by a milita sniper rifle. Well you are going to have to find him - I think the better players will find a spot, snipe, snipe, snipe - once they know they might be detected, snipe last person and then cloak and move away. I also hope this means the death of the redline because nothing will bring those players out of it. They will stay there and use cloak and shimmy around - rinse repeat. In your blind spot



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