DUST Search - SiSi "leaks" - the CPM's perspective

Galm Fae wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

And now you and I finally got what we asked for. The news that CCP is re-examining their internal processes. This alone is clear confirmation that CCP was having problems managing the development of Dust 514 and a result many of the things we have hoped for has suffered delays. If there were no problems with managing the development of the game, then CCP wouldn't have needed to do this re-examining process in the first place.

There is an old saying among aviation mechanics who have to deal with repairs and maintenance that have to be done according to the FAA. "If you have to take the time to correct your mistake, why didn't you take the time to do it right the first time?"

But the issues we are seeing now shouldn't be some massive gamekillers, they should be able to be fixed in a timely manner with a group dedicated to fix rising bugs while the game is further improved with new content. Your analogy is clever, but it's also unacceptable to spend six months clogging up a hanger to fix one engine.

Furthermore, they shouldn't be reevaluating anything! Limiting the scope they promised us is just lazy production on their part. New leadership should mean that they can finally execute all the dreams they originally had, not that they should step back and just get by with what they have! Otherwise, what was the point of hiring a new producer in the first place?

They should be getting better, not playing triage month after month.

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Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1284	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:11:00 - [1] - Quote FYI for everyone peering into their crystal balls (or just looking at what's on SiSi) - CCP has assured the CPM multiple times throughout the holiday season that 1.8 is still being planned out, and that no decisions have been made regarding even a feature list or approximate scope. Yes, one could easily infer that 1.8 is going to be all about dropsuit bonus changes, or that it'll include new items, etc. etc.....but I cannot and will not guarantee that this is the case. CCP is undergoing a much larger planning process under the supervision of the new EP, CCP Rouge, who will speak about the larger direction of the game and where they want to take it once CCP has finished going through that process. This will take time, its not going to be next week, it may not even be this month......and all things considered the silence you're hearing from them about the future is completely appropriate given how deeply they're examining their own internal processes for building Dust. This larger planning effort underway will have a big impact on what 1.8 looks like, whether its even called 1.8, when it releases, and what it'll have in it. The CPM does not have answers for any of this because its status is still "in planning" according to CCP. This isn't a situation where the CPM knows 1.8 contents and they're just NDA.....to our knowledge, 1.8 hasn't even finished being planned yet. Yes, that's a hugely ambiguous and open-ended "status report", but its also because we have seen zero evidence that final decisions have actually been made regarding what will go in the next release. I'm not saying this to alarm people - like I said, the larger planning effort being overseen by CCP Rouge is VERY healthy and necessary, and their discretion until they've finished that process is completely appropriate. I'm not saying CCP is dropping the ball by not talking about the next release yet, its understandable given the context. All that to say......feel free to respectfully provide feedback on the stuff you see on the test server, but at this time I have no reason personally to get fired up over these given what we know about where CCP is at with their planning. Yes, there was the ferroscale debacle before - but I really doubt this is an analogous situation. At the time Ferroscale plates leaked, CCP would have known exactly what was coming and been working on the next patch with purpose. This time around, I think its much more likely (until they tell us otherwise) that this is a case of designers needing to continue their work on projects with or without a 1.8 scoping, and dropsuit bonus problems being towards the top of their list. The CPM discussed dropsuit bonuses extensively last summer, and many of our own suggestions are reflected in the general -direction- of these leaked bonus changes, so CCP is not working in a vacuum here. We may or may not agree on the specific details, but the broad strokes were already agreed upon internally for the most part, so I will give CCP some credit here for listening to our feedback and setting up a much more logical approach to suit bonus design. I look forward to seeing how these evolve in the coming weeks/months, hopefully we'll still have plenty of time to fine tune details before they hit Tranquility. o7
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4406	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:14:00 - [2] - Quote Thanks for the update! Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mdog 24158 D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 89	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:14:00 - [3] - Quote CCP is just full of surprises Flying derpships and combat rifle destroyer fear me
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1721	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:18:00 - [4] - Quote Which one of you cpm'rs thought rof and damage bonuses on suit where the ****? [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Big miku Nation of Miku 326	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:19:00 - [5] - Quote Once again terrible Suit and Class skills are created with no input from people who actually play the game.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11695	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:20:00 - [6] - Quote http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/332008/670b169c-7a6e-4d6c-95d8-d9ebdf2dc390.png Things that popped on sisi and yet to materialize Bombers Destroyers Misma Grenades Flux Mines Drone Installations everything labeled [test] Gender named and specific dropsuits (ie Caldari Female Medium Frame) and many more. Most of these have been removed from sisi though but still appear on the SDE. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2589	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:21:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/332008/670b169c-7a6e-4d6c-95d8-d9ebdf2dc390.png Things that popped on sisi and yet to materialize Bombers Destroyers Misma Grenades Flux Mines Drone Installations everything labeled [test] Gender specific dropsuit items. and many more. So what you're saying is these heavies won't materialize? Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
LEHON Xeon Pradox XVI 16	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:22:00 - [8] - Quote Well, that's great to know, but I'm still going to be keeping a close eye open. Wouldn't be the first time CCP has tried to sneak stuff through under the darkness cloak and "surprise, rebuild your entire gaming approach again because we determined X and Y" If Walking Is So Good For You, Then Why Does My Mailman Look Like Jabba The Hut?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11695	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:23:00 - [9] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/332008/670b169c-7a6e-4d6c-95d8-d9ebdf2dc390.png Things that popped on sisi and yet to materialize Bombers Destroyers Misma Grenades Flux Mines Drone Installations everything labeled [test] Gender specific dropsuit items. and many more. So what you're saying is these heavies won't materialize? Don't count chickens before they hatch, talk about the eggs all you want though but depending on the care given to the eggs will determine if we're going have an egg mac muffin or a crispy chicken sandwich. Don't worry guys CPM will keep our ears close to the ground and attentive in the situation, we do welcome feedback on so far as well as open to alternatives that fit within the direction ccp is trying to take the suits (becuase I doubt we can make then go backwards on things like that). Till we get blue posts responsible on these 'products' just treat as early speculation and work in progress. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2589	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:24:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/332008/670b169c-7a6e-4d6c-95d8-d9ebdf2dc390.png Things that popped on sisi and yet to materialize Bombers Destroyers Misma Grenades Flux Mines Drone Installations everything labeled [test] Gender specific dropsuit items. and many more. So what you're saying is these heavies won't materialize? Don't count chickens before they hatch, talk about the eggs all you want though but depending on the care given to the eggs will determine if we're going have an egg mac muffin or a crispy chicken sandwich. Well now I'm just hungry. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.

Mithridates VI Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2574	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:26:00 - [11] - Quote I am concerned by the tone of CCP Logibro's post which makes it sound like this was an expected and known change. While still giving the obligatory "It's the test server", it's a lot more certain than "developers messing about" IMO. CCP Logibro wrote: I was wondering how long it would take for you guys to find these on Sisi. Just remember to have patience, and keep your magic crystal ball close by at all times. These numbers are not necessarily final. On another note, the Gallente Heavy is looking pretty. Please refrain from utilizing such inflammatory sarcasm in the future. GÇö CCP Eterne
Tectonic Fusion 943	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:26:00 - [12] - Quote Cake. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6305	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:27:00 - [13] - Quote Quote: Yes, one could easily infer that 1.8 is going to be all about dropsuit bonus changes, or that it'll include new items, etc. etc.....but I cannot and will not guarantee that this is the case. CCP is undergoing a much larger planning process under the supervision of the new EP, CCP Rouge, who will speak about the larger direction of the game and where they want to take it, when CCP has finished going through the process they're going through. This will take time, its not going to be next week, it may not even be this month......and all things considered the silence you're hearing from them about the future is completely appropriate given how deeply they're examining their own internal processes for building Dust. Looks like silence is finally golden in this case. For once. It's great to know that CCP is currently re-examining their internal process. Hopefully this could mean that 1.8 and all other updates thereafter would finally have things that should have taken priority a long time ago. Up to this point, we have been seeing nothing but updates filled mostly with things that are nice to have but are mostly NOT priority. If CCP Rouge is serious about re-examining their own internal processes, then the results of this whole effort should properly reflect the needs of the player base. Right now, as it stands, the needs of the player base are... 1. Revamping Planetary Conquest and make it more meaningful and much more stable and balanced. 2. Introduction of the Secondary Market or at least a trade window feature. 3. Implementation of CORE content like all racial suits/vehicles/weapons. 4. Enhancing the connection between Eve and Dust and make it more upfront than ever before. 5. Address lag. 6. Fix matchmaking completely (not just partially). 7. Optimize the code for better performance. 8. Allow suits that have been marginalized to finally become useful (cough)scouts(cough) OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 212	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:27:00 - [14] - Quote So here's the deal... CCP hasn't finalized anything and I totally get that. BUT! I still don't like being kept in the dark. Looking at all the content that was shown to us in FanFest 2013 stamped with the title SOON was enough to keep me playing knowing that if I just pulled through for a bit I'd get to see some amazing new content being produced and shared with the community. PVE, Gladiator matches, zero gravity environments, jets, it was all amazing! Then nothing was delivered. There was absolutely no follow up or even a status report on how those process are going. Worse yet, imagine the horror I faced when I discovered the jets were already finished but are sitting in limbo until the game can accommodate them, then hearing nothing more about them for month after month. I understand you don't want to finalize anything and share it with us, but now more then ever (especially when there is a new EP that we don't know much about) I'd expect you to recover from any sort of lack of followthrough the team has shown by at least being open with us about how production is going. I don't care if I have to wait three years for something as long as you make some sort of effort to show me how it is going instead of blowing off my hopes and your promises because they are of "low priority." Transparency is all I ask. *"On the Leviathan's back will our civilization be carried home and the taint of the Enemy purged from our souls."*
Aero Yassavi Yassavi House 4403	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:32:00 - [15] - Quote About to read the whole thing, but seeing as you start out by mentioning the "Crystal Ball" let me put it straight. What people are doing is providing feedback. That is what people should do when given new info. Call it crystal balling if you want, but it's just honest good feedback. EDIT: You're using "Crystal Ball" to drive home a different point than what others have been using it for. Carry on, good sir. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4406	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:32:00 - [16] - Quote Big miku wrote: Once again terrible Suit and Class skills are created with no input from people who actually play the game. Did you even read his post? The whole point is that NO decisions have been made about ANY of this. Everything on Singularity is TESTING. They are literally just throwing stuff at the wall to see what works. We'll probably never even see these. Again, they don't even know what 1.8 will be, how they're going to work on it, or even when they're going to try and have it done. Bascially, no reason to panic. Also, in case you didn't get it from his post, the CPM learned about this stuff at the same time we did. They were not part of this because it was labeled as "internal" and thus not shared with them. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 214	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:34:00 - [17] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: About to read the whole thing, but seeing as you start out by mentioning the "Crystal Ball" let me put it straight. What people are doing is providing feedback. That is what people should do when given new info. Call it crystal balling if you want, but it's just honest good feedback. BY THE PEOPLE THAT PAYING FOR YOUR GAME >inb4 free to play >not realizing it's pay to win *"On the Leviathan's back will our civilization be carried home and the taint of the Enemy purged from our souls."*
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1437	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:37:00 - [18] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Cake. Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6305	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:39:00 - [19] - Quote Galm Fae wrote: So here's the deal... CCP hasn't finalized anything and I totally get that. BUT! I still don't like being kept in the dark. Looking at all the content that was shown to us in FanFest 2013 stamped with the title SOON was enough to keep me playing knowing that if I just pulled through for a bit I'd get to see some amazing new content being produced and shared with the community. PVE, Gladiator matches, zero gravity environments, jets, it was all amazing! Then nothing was delivered. There was absolutely no follow up or even a status report on how those process are going. Worse yet, imagine the horror I faced when I discovered the jets were already finished but are sitting in limbo until the game can accommodate them, then hearing nothing more about them for month after month. I understand you don't want to finalize anything and share it with us, but now more then ever (especially when there is a new EP that has yet to prove he gives a damn) I'd expect you to recover from any sort of lack of followthrough the team has shown by at least being open with us about how production is going. I don't care if I have to wait three years for something as long as you make some sort of effort to show me how it is going instead of blowing off my hopes and your promises because they are of "low priority." Transparency is all I ask. And now you and I finally got what we asked for. The news that CCP is re-examining their internal processes. This alone is clear confirmation that CCP was having problems managing the development of Dust 514 and a result many of the things we have hoped for has suffered delays. If there were no problems with managing the development of the game, then CCP wouldn't have needed to do this re-examining process in the first place. There is an old saying among aviation mechanics who have to deal with repairs and maintenance that have to. "If you have to take the time to correct your mistake, why didn't you take the time to do it right the first time?" OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 241	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:44:00 - [20] - Quote Im sorry I didnt vote for you, who are you and why should I care? All that op was about was the same thing CCP always says about test server crystal balling "its subject to change or not even existing" why didn't you just say that?

Galm Fae Eskola Ergonomics 214	Posted - 2014.01.08 02:51:00 - [21] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: And now you and I finally got what we asked for. The news that CCP is re-examining their internal processes. This alone is clear confirmation that CCP was having problems managing the development of Dust 514 and a result many of the things we have hoped for has suffered delays. If there were no problems with managing the development of the game, then CCP wouldn't have needed to do this re-examining process in the first place. There is an old saying among aviation mechanics who have to deal with repairs and maintenance that have to be done according to the FAA. "If you have to take the time to correct your mistake, why didn't you take the time to do it right the first time?" But the issues we are seeing now shouldn't be some massive gamekillers, they should be able to be fixed in a timely manner with a group dedicated to fix rising bugs while the game is further improved with new content. Your analogy is clever, but it's also unacceptable to spend six months clogging up a hanger to fix one engine. Furthermore, they shouldn't be reevaluating anything! Limiting the scope they promised us is just lazy production on their part. New leadership should mean that they can finally execute all the dreams they originally had, not that they should step back and just get by with what they have! Otherwise, what was the point of hiring a new producer in the first place? They should be getting better, not playing triage month after month. *"On the Leviathan's back will our civilization be carried home and the taint of the Enemy purged from our souls."*
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6307	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:36:00 - [22] - Quote Galm Fae wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: And now you and I finally got what we asked for. The news that CCP is re-examining their internal processes. This alone is clear confirmation that CCP was having problems managing the development of Dust 514 and a result many of the things we have hoped for has suffered delays. If there were no problems with managing the development of the game, then CCP wouldn't have needed to do this re-examining process in the first place. There is an old saying among aviation mechanics who have to deal with repairs and maintenance that have to be done according to the FAA. "If you have to take the time to correct your mistake, why didn't you take the time to do it right the first time?" But the issues we are seeing now shouldn't be some massive gamekillers, they should be able to be fixed in a timely manner with a group dedicated to fix rising bugs while the game is further improved with new content. Your analogy is clever, but it's also unacceptable to spend six months clogging up a hanger to fix one engine. Furthermore, they shouldn't be reevaluating anything! Limiting the scope they promised us is just lazy production on their part. New leadership should mean that they can finally execute all the dreams they originally had, not that they should step back and just get by with what they have! Otherwise, what was the point of hiring a new producer in the first place? They should be getting better, not playing triage month after month. You're misunderstanding my point. Yes, it is unacceptable to clog up a hangar for six months to fix one engine. When such a thing happens, then it is time for an internal restructuring. At that point, effort should be made to prevent any future clog ups of the hangar and make it take less time to fix that one engine while still maintaining the level of quality expected by the FAA (in this case, the player base). OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1296	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:43:00 - [23] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Which one of you cpm'rs thought rof and damage bonuses on suit where the ***? None of these stat changes were made at our specific suggestion, and this is one of the first things I want them to reconsider, actually. :-P We already have a pending meeting request for a serious postmortem on the TTK issue with CCP Remnant, and now we have that much more to discuss now that we've seen these. When I talk of CPM input, I'm referring to the general direction of the various suit bonuses (Sentinels being made to tank, Commandos made to kill, and Logistics meant to specialize in various racial equipment-based roles), and the general idea of Assaults dedicated to damage dealing. I think a damage bonus in spirit makes sense for an Assault suit (if our TTK was much more reasonable), but in the current context just slapping on a flat damage boost is crazy bad for the game. I certainly hope that there are other changes planned that would allow for the assault bonus to be changed to one that specializes in damage without further breaking things, but I'm also not going to leave it up to chance. We'll be on them about this as soon as our meeting gets scheduled. *And not surprisingly, most of the community feedback has consistently praised the general direction indicated by the SiSi data, if not some of the individual details.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6310	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:52:00 - [24] - Quote To further expand on my aviation maintenance analogy, we can all safely assume what it could mean when an internal restructuring occurs at the management level of the aircraft hangar (Dust 514). 1. Aviation technicians that have not been effectively utilized to their full potential will be put into positions that takes better advantage of their skill sets. Why is Tech. A being assigned to fix the hydraulics of the aircraft if he is better at fixing the engine while Tech. B (who is better at hydraulics) does the job suited for him? It would make sense to switch them around. 2. Where are the assistant managers and supervisors? Are they doing their jobs or are they sitting at the office playing Angry Birds? 3. Are all of the technicians and supervisors encouraged to constantly communicate with each other? If so, is there room for improvement? 4. Are the repair and maintenance jobs being performed and completed according to the standards set by the FAA (aka Player Base)? If not, resolve that issue immediately. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Heinrich Jagerblitzen D3LTA FORC3 1297	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:54:00 - [25] - Quote Galm Fae wrote: They should be getting better, not playing triage month after month. To be fair, the major "triage" that they are currently undergoing is the first and only opportunity that the new Executive Producer has had to have an effect on not just the direction the game is going, but the way its getting built as well. This isn't part of a pattern, its why he was brought in. He wasn't brought in to make small changes or to fix small problems, he was brought in to make big changes to fix ENORMOUS problems. And yes, they may need to pause and examine their development processes before things get into a groove again, but frankly I don't believe the game will survive much longer if they don't. We've all seen the slipping player numbers, we all can project the trajectory CCP's been on in terms of how fast they can crank out content, and I think we can do the math. This is why I believe the process CCP is undergoing right now is completely justifiable, necessary, and a huge relief compared to the more surface level changes we've seen to their development process over the last few months of "rapid iteration". Regardless of what happens over the next couple of months in terms of output, CCP is serious about doing what it takes to make Dust a success in the long run, and I can say that now with a confidence that I couldn't have had a couple months ago.
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 2409	Posted - 2014.01.08 03:56:00 - [26] - Quote "might not be called 1.8" :0 "Imagine a world where hypothetical thoughts didn't exist" -Draxus Prime Closed Beta Vet Nova Knife Proficeiney 5 \o/
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1449	Posted - 2014.01.08 04:03:00 - [27] - Quote Thanks for the heads up Hans. Knowing about the existence and the scope/scale of an internal restructuring under Rouge's purview is the best thing to come out of this Sisi story, imo. It's very good news and also gives players a rationale for resetting their expectations on the timing of 1.8. It is also valuable to know that features are not set yet and there is still time for player input. Honest question: do you think the playerbase would have learned about the status of 1.8 not having its features set or scope set yet if not for this little Sisi ruckus? I support SP rollover.
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 993	Posted - 2014.01.08 04:05:00 - [28] - Quote I don't believe a word you are saying, jager. *CALDARI not so MASTER RACE* Forum Warrior Level: 10
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 325	Posted - 2014.01.08 04:06:00 - [29] - Quote Here is a question for you Hans; How much effect did CPM's input have on the vehicle rebalance? Obviously since it has been a MONUMENTAL failure, as demonstrated by the non-stop QQ on the forums since december 10th), I think the community at large would like to have either more or less CPM input based on your response. By this I mean, if the CPM were very in favor of the vehicle changes, and even helped with the balancing efforts, then stay the hell away from the rest of game design please. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2428	Posted - 2014.01.08 04:09:00 - [30] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: Im sorry I didnt vote for you, who are you and why should I care? All that op was about was the same thing CCP always says about test server crystal balling "its subject to change or not even existing" why didn't you just say that? He is an experienced member of the CSM as well and knows how to communicate with CCP. He was selected because of both his experience with CCP and his interest in DUST 514. If you have any interest in faction warfare he's the guy to talk to. You'll get your chance to vote soon enough and if he runs again he has my vote and complete support. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana



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