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Foxhound Elite The Rainbow Effect 618	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:06:00 - [1] - Quote Let's please brainstorm together to get some ideas going on how to remove their ability to 'kill-and-not-be-killed' apart from an organised squadron of assault dropship pilots. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 547	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:07:00 - [2] - Quote Sweet tears. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
DrDoktor PiZzA DuDeS 47	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote Organized assault of 3 or more breach forge gunners?
Foxhound Elite The Rainbow Effect 618	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:09:00 - [4] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Sweet tears. Well, it should be addressed. How about; No Risk, No ISK: If you're camping in the redline, you get no ISK for any WP made while you're in there. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Foxhound Elite The Rainbow Effect 618	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:12:00 - [5] - Quote DrDoktor wrote: Organized assault of 3 or more breach forge gunners? I'm not going to veer my infantry away from winning the battle on the ground. If there's a railgun tank, I should be able to kill him, provided if he doesn't kill me first. If I don't get shot down while in my Python, I engage the tank, and if he isn't in the redline, he rolls back to it... but 90% of the time he's already there and rolls back deeper. Usually only ends in me having to retreat, while he just reps and goes back to popping off projectiles from utter safety. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Scottie MaCallan Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:13:00 - [6] - Quote other rail tanks, forge gun squads, ADS, there's ways. and as someone who does this sometimes, it has more to do with map design than being a coward, a lot of good perches are for some reason designed inside the redline. When maps get bigger I venture out of the redline because the better positions are out there (my definition of a good perch is a tall overwatch position that offers cover (usually in the form of ditches and jagged rocks) and is within range of the most probably enemy positions, a few maps have amazing perches located right inside the redline, srry)
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2152	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:14:00 - [7] - Quote Meh Intelligence is OP
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 178	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:17:00 - [8] - Quote As was identified in another thread, the maps are the issue. There should be no clear line of sight of the battlefield from the redline, IMO.
Jane Madson Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 284	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:17:00 - [9] - Quote Simple, add a timer to the redline, 3 mins tops. Thats enough time to deploy a lav ot hav. It would fix all problems with redline. Also fix the dang matchmaking, base it off warpoints. Warpoints are a better indication of experience. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.(Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us)
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3411	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:32:00 - [10] - Quote Jane Madson wrote: Simple, add a timer to the redline, 3 mins tops. Thats enough time to deploy a lav ot hav. It would fix all problems with redline. Also fix the dang matchmaking, base it off warpoints. Warpoints are a better indication of experience. The timer can be exploited by driving out and then in again. It would be too much of a disadvantage if it became normal redzone after you leave, because lately the only supply depots accessible to vehicles are the ones in the red line. We used to have a time machine

daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 547	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:38:00 - [11] - Quote Jane Madson wrote: Simple, add a timer to the redline, 3 mins tops. Thats enough time to deploy a lav ot hav. It would fix all problems with redline. Also fix the dang matchmaking, base it off warpoints. Warpoints are a better indication of experience. So, when I redline the enemy team they can either wait 3 mins inside their red and die or come out and die also. I don't have any words to insult people like you lol O.o To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation 668	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:40:00 - [12] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: Sweet tears. Well, it should be addressed. How about; No Risk, No ISK: If you're camping in the redline, you get no ISK for any WP made while you're in there. I like that. *Assassination is my thing.*
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1206	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:43:00 - [13] - Quote The only way it can be addressed is by changing the maps in a way that doesn't provide spots for them to snipe from.
Big miku Nation of Miku 322	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:43:00 - [14] - Quote Set up super OP (CRU level HP and Advance level damage) blaster turrets around the Spawn zones increase their engagement range and AI tracking and firing protocol, strategically place some bunkers around them to prevent them from being railgun snipped, then remove the redline. For extra OP add Light armor reppers to the turrets. Now there are powerful turrets that will auto kill things that linger around the spawns but can be killed with a lot of effort. and you can drive within range of redline tanks and kill them but the turrents will kill you if you hang about. I fixed the issue.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 111	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:46:00 - [15] - Quote get rid of the redline, its now just a railgun tank. best way to do that would be to just rip off section 8
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 3	Posted - 2014.01.06 15:47:00 - [16] - Quote Easy any rail with any 3 damage increase mod 2 hit die hard or call support from eve *Real tanker dies with their tanks!*
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2407	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:04:00 - [17] - Quote Who cares? Don't have to deal with this stuff if you just don't play Dust. What's their population numbers at now?
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 567	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:11:00 - [18] - Quote Judge has already created a literally huge topic on this, with about 16 pages of suggestions of how to deal with this issue, it should be on this page since i recently bumped it, check it out.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 362	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:14:00 - [19] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: Let's please brainstorm together to get some ideas going on how to remove their ability to 'kill-and-not-be-killed' apart from an organised squadron of assault dropship pilots. Ok, from my tankin perspective. Back when I started tanking around May, I'll admit, I was a fan of redline tanking. Though then, the incredibly high cost of tanks, weakness of my gunnlogi stacked with a maddie, and the SP barrier to be effective, made it the only profitable choice. But it's not just about that. During the Revolutionary War, American troops adopted the Native American approach to combat. Standing in rows with clear view between the opposing forces, and firing until the last man standing won - The British Approach Fair and equal between the opposing forces, they weren't sissys I'll give them that. Striking from the shadows, using terrain, camo, range ,ect to your advantage, in order to insure a high loss of men to the opposing side while maintaining a large force yourself. -The Native American Way Win by any means possible. It is a fight to win, an intelligent person in my book uses "cheap tactics" to gain an advantage over a superior force or any force for that matter. Brawn without brain is useless! The British took to calling the Americans cowards for their use of dishonorable tactics. Look at us now! So I do have some respect for redline sniping. Yes cheap and stupid, but very effective and hard to counter. That's the point of good tactics is it not. --Though if we wanted to reduce the occurrence of redline sniping I could suggest a few things.-- Map Changes Terrain in the redline makes a big difference in how effective redline tanking is. Some, are very open and exposed to rail fire, others offer superior elevation and slight hills in the terrain that allow you to pull back to cover very easily. There should be no tactically superior terrain in the redline. Either it's open and in clear view from outside the redline, or it is more enclosed, with no way to access a higher position. This would force a rail gun to gain a high spot OUTSIDE of the redline. He could still be a superior presence on the battlefield, but at least then he would be accessible to other tanks on the field. Railgun Changes Railguns have some massive range, this makes it very easy to effectively snipe from the redline. Reducing that range to 350-400, or put it on par with whatever forge gun range is. Railguns would still hold a range advantage over the other types of turrets, but would need to engage much closer. Damage modded rails can destroy other tanks easily, and from very far away. Reducing the ranges forces them in closer, and gives the other tanks a better fighting chance against them. The added bonus is it reduces redline rail sniping. (Railguns are a bit OP atm, all for this type of change) I think of it like this though when it comes to redline rail sniping. If you are in a game, and the enemy redlines you, and they have tanks out helping to keep you in. What would I do? I would sneak attack ambush from the shadows, and hide behind my redline, using it to my advantage to take on a superior force. No doubt they would call me a ***, while I'm stitting in the rubble of what used to be their tank. But sometimes, that's the only option available if you want to win. You know the blues aren't going to save you. Still the redlined need to be able to fight back, and they need something on their side that gives them an advantage if anything to get back out. Summed** Reducing railgun range would still let them fight back against those pushing the redline, and at the same time reduce the ability to hit anything beyond your home point, if that. Redline is there to give you a fighting chance, not an overall advantage over the entire map. Additionally, changing up the redline terrain to provide an advantage to the redlined to push out, but make it impossible to maintain map control from the redline. Hills closest to the redline shouldn't be climbed. Have a higher elevation further in, that provides clear view of the outside of the redline, coupled with a range nerf. This allows you to help push out from the redline fairly safely, but you are restricted to only having control over the area say 100km to 200km out from the redline. Beyond that, you must expose yourself to the potential of being ganked from behind! Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 362	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:17:00 - [20] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: Sweet tears. Well, it should be addressed. How about; No Risk, No ISK: If you're camping in the redline, you get no ISK for any WP made while you're in there. I don't like that approach, it doesn't address being redlined in a game. It just means when you get stomped, not only do you lose a match, you get no rewards. Way harsh. Nuff Said

Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 488	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:20:00 - [21] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: As was identified in another thread, the maps are the issue. There should be no clear line of sight of the battlefield from the redline, IMO. Yes I think this is mostly a map design issue.
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 4	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:30:00 - [22] - Quote Railgun had already reduced range. Few patch ago rail have no range limitn+êeven redline rail sniper can hit each other and now half map only Why there are only so little redline sniper before?becausen+Ü Cost, 10000000 isk for a tank or it deal no damage Risk, there are very high risk that redline rail sniper can kill each other easilyn+êpre updaten+ë Prize, at before redline sniper can only get little wp because rail can't kill people and when there are no other tank you get no wp and if you go to kill people with blaster you get so much wp to get 5 most expensive dropship Map, map in before have no good location to rail tank snipe behind redline *Real tanker dies with their tanks!*
Serimos Haeraven The Exemplars Top Men. 567	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:32:00 - [23] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: As was identified in another thread, the maps are the issue. There should be no clear line of sight of the battlefield from the redline, IMO. Yes I think this is mostly a map design issue. But i don't think that would stop dropship 1-2 shotting from the redline at all. Sure, they couldn't see the main battlefield, but putting the redline "below the sea-level of the battleground" means that there would be a pretty drasticly angled slope from the redline onto the battlefield, and what does that mean? Redline railgun tanks could simply roll up on the slope and pelt DS pilots in the air easily, still..
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 362	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:34:00 - [24] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: As was identified in another thread, the maps are the issue. There should be no clear line of sight of the battlefield from the redline, IMO. Yes I think this is mostly a map design issue. But i don't think that would stop dropship 1-2 shotting from the redline at all. Sure, they couldn't see the main battlefield, but putting the redline "below the sea-level of the battleground" means that there would be a pretty drasticly angled slope from the redline onto the battlefield, and what does that mean? Redline railgun tanks could simply roll up on the slope and pelt DS pilots in the air easily, still.. Nerf rail gun range! Nuff Said
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3083	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:35:00 - [25] - Quote Falloff Damage /thread Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 760	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:37:00 - [26] - Quote A boost to swarm launcher range against tanks? Munch Dedicated Sniper. Minmatar Patriot (6).
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 362	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:37:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Falloff Damage /thread Yeah that could help too. Nuff Said
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 760	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:39:00 - [28] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Jane Madson wrote: Simple, add a timer to the redline, 3 mins tops. Thats enough time to deploy a lav ot hav. It would fix all problems with redline. Also fix the dang matchmaking, base it off warpoints. Warpoints are a better indication of experience. The timer can be exploited by driving out and then in again. It would be too much of a disadvantage if it became normal redzone after you leave, because lately the only supply depots accessible to vehicles are the ones in the red line. Not if you implement a cooldown. Munch Dedicated Sniper. Minmatar Patriot (6).
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1156	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:01:00 - [29] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Ok, from my tankin perspective.....sniped out all the twaddle... Long post, but you keep trying to call being inaccessible a 'skilled use of tactics' I call BS on this. This is not a real world battle so any comparison to one is a waste of time. A computer game is as similar to the civil war as a painting of the civil war is. This is a game with people on both sides of an engagement who should enjoy the game and play on a fair and balanced board. You can hide the imbalance with words like "tactics" but no matter how many words you use to try to bury the unfairness of redline tanks no-one is falling for it. There is NO counter that is equal to the advantage the redline tank has. Any player wishing to fight a redline tank deep in the redline has to be on the battlefield and thus in range of other threats. The argument ends there. Two parties, one at risk from multiple avenues, one in the redline immune from any attack that does not come from a predictable direction. Even another tank has to get into the burn zone to shoot at you. Coward is the name for that play style. Not tactician. So I want to see clearly and plainly how you really feel without the waffle. So here is the question : Do you think it is fair that a player can be out of direct weapon fire range of any other player that is not on the battlefield yet still direct fire kill players on the battlefield? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 363	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:15:00 - [30] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Ok, from my tankin perspective.....sniped out all the twaddle... Long post, but you keep trying to call being inaccessible a 'skilled use of tactics' I call BS on this. This is not a real world battle so any comparison to one is a waste of time. A computer game is a similar to the civil war as a painting of the civil war is. This is a game with people on both sides of an engagement who should enjoy the game and play on a fair and balanced board. You can hide the imbalance with words like "tactics" but no matter how many words you use to try to bury the unfairness of redline tanks no-one is falling for it. There is NO counter that is equal to the advantage the redline tank has. Any player wishing to fight a redline tank deep in the redline has to be on the battlefield and thus in range of other threats. The argument ends there. Two parties, one at risk from multiple avenues, one in the redline immune from any attack that does not come from a predictable direction. Even another tank has to get into the burn zone to shoot at you. Coward is the name for that play style. Not tactician. So I want to see clearly and plainly how you really feel without the waffle. So here is the question : Do you think it is fair that a player can be out of range of any other player that is not on the battlefield yet still kill players on the battlefield? Did you read all of my post, or stop when you read the part about cheap tactics being tactics none the less. You can wallow all you like over how cowardly a tactic is. In the end, it is the victor who writes history. But you clearly missed my point by a long shot. NO, I hate redline rails with a passion. Just last night I sacrificed my tank in PC to kill one such redline tanker. You are right, this is a video game, and should be balanced out. But I'm not going to bash on somebody for using a tactic that provides hardly any counter, and remains very effective. Fighting isn't about who's ** is bigger than the others, there is no honor in killing no matter how it is done. Respect. Nuff Said. If you even noticed, I posted my suggestions. THE KEY HERE IS THE REDLINE SHOULD SERVE A PURPOSE!** That purpose is to provide a redlined team a fighting chance. Currently though, a rail tank can use that to their advantage, in order to control the map. READ MY POST, and suggestions as a whole, not a PIECE. N quit being an asshat. Nuff Said

Foxhound Elite The Rainbow Effect 620	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:34:00 - [31] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Ok, from my tankin perspective.....sniped out all the twaddle... Long post, but you keep trying to call being inaccessible a 'skilled use of tactics' I call BS on this. This is not a real world battle so any comparison to one is a waste of time. A computer game is a similar to the civil war as a painting of the civil war is. This is a game with people on both sides of an engagement who should enjoy the game and play on a fair and balanced board. You can hide the imbalance with words like "tactics" but no matter how many words you use to try to bury the unfairness of redline tanks no-one is falling for it. There is NO counter that is equal to the advantage the redline tank has. Any player wishing to fight a redline tank deep in the redline has to be on the battlefield and thus in range of other threats. The argument ends there. Two parties, one at risk from multiple avenues, one in the redline immune from any attack that does not come from a predictable direction. Even another tank has to get into the burn zone to shoot at you. Coward is the name for that play style. Not tactician. So I want to see clearly and plainly how you really feel without the waffle. So here is the question : Do you think it is fair that a player can be out of range of any other player that is not on the battlefield yet still kill players on the battlefield? Did you read all of my post, or stop when you read the part about cheap tactics being tactics none the less. You can wallow all you like over how cowardly a tactic is. In the end, it is the victor who writes history. But you clearly missed my point by a long shot. NO, I hate redline rails with a passion. Just last night I sacrificed my tank in PC to kill one such redline tanker. You are right, this is a video game, and should be balanced out. But I'm not going to bash on somebody for using a tactic that provides hardly any counter, and remains very effective. Fighting isn't about who's ** is bigger than the others, there is no honor in killing no matter how it is done. Respect. Nuff Said. CCP has allowed this mechanic for a long time now, how about you focus that rage their way. If you even noticed, I posted my suggestions. THE KEY HERE IS THE REDLINE SHOULD SERVE A PURPOSE!** That purpose is to provide a redlined team a fighting chance. Currently though, a rail tank can use that to their advantage, in order to control the map. READ MY POST, and suggestions as a whole, not a PIECE. N quit being an asshat. The redline does serve a purpose. The purpose of the red-line is to provide the team with a safe zone to rally in and assault the objectives, be it at the start or during a battle. If a team gets red-lined and is getting pinned in there, it's up to that team to rally via squads and make a push, either flanking or attacking the assailing team head-on. We all know 95% of the time, this never happens due to random team composition / poor squads / poor communication, which inevitably lead the team to getting red-lined in the first place. But the means are there, it's just we don't see people use them very often. Tankers use this safe-zone to their advantage however, and are pretty much un-killable due to the safety net it provides. It is a terrain issue, it is a timer-issue and it's being abused to the point where it makes the game virtually unplayable for vehicle users, primarily dropships who can only use mobility to their advantage. Like you said, they control the map. They shouldn't have that dominating power, and I'm sorry but I can't 'respect' that use of so-called 'tactics' , no matter how 'effective' it is. It's just giving the most powerful weapon in the game a safety-net which it can fall back on, should it encounter anyone trying to stop it. ..... And it needs to be stopped, by any means. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 459	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:35:00 - [32] - Quote My alt is a tanker, and I view redline rail tanking as this. There are tankers who can roll in the burnzone and dominate other tanks and survive. There are those who cannot and resort to redline "tactics". Redline tanking is not my style, I like to prowl the map, have my squad keep me aware of other tanks on the field, and when we do battle, may the better tank and or tanker win. It's more fun and challenging that way, rail tanking is just boring and well, cowardly... CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Foxhound Elite The Rainbow Effect 620	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:39:00 - [33] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: My alt is a tanker, and I view redline rail tanking as this. There are tankers who can roll in the burnzone and dominate other tanks and survive. There are those who cannot and resort to redline "tactics". Redline tanking is not my style, I like to prowl the map, have my squad keep me aware of other tanks on the field, and when we do battle, may the better tank and or tanker win. It's more fun and challenging that way, rail tanking is just boring and well, cowardly... People don't like that playstyle however, my friend. I respect your use of the 'head-on' tanker approach, backed by intel from your squadmates, but I also have to respect the playstyle of those who like to provide support from a distance; be it a sniper on a building, suppressing infantry, or a railgun on a hill, suppressing vehicles. However, what I cannot tolerate and respect is a railgun tanker in the red-line who, as I said previously, is virtually unkillable due to the danger timer on the attacker and it's usual terrain advantage, while not to mention the AI of it's allied turrets automatically aims at any attacking vehicle once it crosses the line itself, especially those missile turrets that shoot dropships off-target. Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2153	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:46:00 - [34] - Quote Rail keeps the skies clear No rail = ADS/DS heaven and never shot down again Intelligence is OP
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 363	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:47:00 - [35] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Ok, from my tankin perspective.....sniped out all the twaddle... Long post, but you keep trying to call being inaccessible a 'skilled use of tactics' I call BS on this. This is not a real world battle so any comparison to one is a waste of time. A computer game is a similar to the civil war as a painting of the civil war is. This is a game with people on both sides of an engagement who should enjoy the game and play on a fair and balanced board. You can hide the imbalance with words like "tactics" but no matter how many words you use to try to bury the unfairness of redline tanks no-one is falling for it. There is NO counter that is equal to the advantage the redline tank has. Any player wishing to fight a redline tank deep in the redline has to be on the battlefield and thus in range of other threats. The argument ends there. Two parties, one at risk from multiple avenues, one in the redline immune from any attack that does not come from a predictable direction. Even another tank has to get into the burn zone to shoot at you. Coward is the name for that play style. Not tactician. So I want to see clearly and plainly how you really feel without the waffle. So here is the question : Do you think it is fair that a player can be out of range of any other player that is not on the battlefield yet still kill players on the battlefield? Did you read all of my post, or stop when you read the part about cheap tactics being tactics none the less. You can wallow all you like over how cowardly a tactic is. In the end, it is the victor who writes history. But you clearly missed my point by a long shot. NO, I hate redline rails with a passion. Just last night I sacrificed my tank in PC to kill one such redline tanker. You are right, this is a video game, and should be balanced out. But I'm not going to bash on somebody for using a tactic that provides hardly any counter, and remains very effective. Fighting isn't about who's ** is bigger than the others, there is no honor in killing no matter how it is done. Respect. Nuff Said. CCP has allowed this mechanic for a long time now, how about you focus that rage their way. If you even noticed, I posted my suggestions. THE KEY HERE IS THE REDLINE SHOULD SERVE A PURPOSE!** That purpose is to provide a redlined team a fighting chance. Currently though, a rail tank can use that to their advantage, in order to control the map. READ MY POST, and suggestions as a whole, not a PIECE. N quit being an asshat. The redline does serve a purpose. The purpose of the red-line is to provide the team with a safe zone to rally in and assault the objectives, be it at the start or during a battle. If a team gets red-lined and is getting pinned in there, it's up to that team to rally via squads and make a push, either flanking or attacking the assailing team head-on. We all know 95% of the time, this never happens due to random team composition / poor squads / poor communication, which inevitably lead the team to getting red-lined in the first place. But the means are there, it's just we don't see people use them very often. Tankers use this safe-zone to their advantage however, and are pretty much un-killable due to the safety net it provides. It is a terrain issue, it is a timer-issue and it's being abused to the point where it makes the game virtually unplayable for vehicle users, primarily dropships who can only use mobility to their advantage. Like you said, they control the map. They shouldn't have that dominating power, and I'm sorry but I can't 'respect' that use of so-called 'tactics' , no matter how 'effective' it is. It's just giving the most powerful weapon in the game a safety-net which it can fall back on, should it encounter anyone trying to stop it. ..... And it needs to be stopped, by any means. Nope totally agree, it needs to be fixed. Did I somehow indicate that I thought it was fine in the first place?? Everyone hates on FOTM abusers, but when you play to win, you "PLAY TO WIN". No I don't agree with it, but I also can't disagree with someone finding an advantage and then using it in their favor to make the win. CCP is responsible for these kinds of things, NOT THE PLAYERS. If you look at it another way as well, a team redlining another team, can deny any vehicle support, with hardly a chance for the redlined to fight back. This happens a lot when my corp redlines a team. Map dependent of course. Terrain I think is the biggest issues. Nuff Said
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1158	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:59:00 - [36] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: ..snip.. Read it. All of it. Still looking for some short answer to the real question. You still call it a tactic in your last post. Its an abuse not a tactic. Also the "no honour in killing" waffle is again a distraction. There is no killing in this game. No one dies. Its about two players competing, or a group of players competing. When people compete fairness is considerd as key to both parties enjoyment. So I ask you again. Is it fair? That is all I asked. If a rail tank kills your proto suit from 200m in his redline while you are at your own closest objective would you feel this was fair? You say you hate it but......blah blah blah. Is it fair? And if it ISa fair and valid tactic then should we need to discuss making it available to everyone in the game. In that case we need to allow all players sections of the map where their enemies cannot go so they too can use this skilled and fair tactic. Tebu Gan wrote: Nope totally agree, it needs to be fixed. Did I somehow indicate that I thought it was fine in the first place?? yes you did actually Tebu Gan wrote: So I do have some respect for redline sniping. Yes cheap and stupid, but very effective and hard to counter. That's the point of good tactics is it not. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 459	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:00:00 - [37] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: My alt is a tanker, and I view redline rail tanking as this. There are tankers who can roll in the burnzone and dominate other tanks and survive. There are those who cannot and resort to redline "tactics". Redline tanking is not my style, I like to prowl the map, have my squad keep me aware of other tanks on the field, and when we do battle, may the better tank and or tanker win. It's more fun and challenging that way, rail tanking is just boring and well, cowardly... People don't like that playstyle however, my friend. I respect your use of the 'head-on' tanker approach, backed by intel from your squadmates, but I also have to respect the playstyle of those who like to provide support from a distance; be it a sniper on a building, suppressing infantry, or a railgun on a hill, suppressing vehicles. However, what I cannot tolerate and respect is a railgun tanker in the red-line who, as I said previously, is virtually unkillable due to the danger timer on the attacker and it's usual terrain advantage, while not to mention the AI of it's allied turrets automatically aims at any attacking vehicle once it crosses the line itself, especially those missile turrets that shoot dropships off-target. Agreed Fox, That's what makes it cowardly. CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 364	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:36:00 - [38] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: ..snip.. Read it. All of it. Still looking for some short answer to the real question. You still call it a tactic in your last post. Its an abuse not a tactic. Also the "no honour in killing" waffle is again a distraction. There is no killing in this game. No one dies. Its about two players competing, or a group of players competing. When people compete fairness is considerd as key to both parties enjoyment. So I ask you again. Is it fair? That is all I asked. If a rail tank kills your proto suit from 200m in his redline while you are at your own closest objective would you feel this was fair? You say you hate it but......blah blah blah. Is it fair? And if it ISa fair and valid tactic then should we need to discuss making it available to everyone in the game. In that case we need to allow all players sections of the map where their enemies cannot go so they too can use this skilled and fair tactic. Tebu Gan wrote: Nope totally agree, it needs to be fixed. Did I somehow indicate that I thought it was fine in the first place?? yes you did actually Tebu Gan wrote: So I do have some respect for redline sniping. Yes cheap and stupid, but very effective and hard to counter. That's the point of good tactics is it not. Yes, the option is available, why wouldn't you use it if you needed to. That's the point. But the point you are missing is that I don't agree that it is right in terms of balance yes. Most all of my tanks are double hardened, plus a booster. Yes EVEN my rail. I don't redline rail snipe. And I hate redline snipers. They are the reason I have to run double hardeners and a booster in the first place!! But what I'm trying to say here, yes I respect the tactic. There is hardly anything I can do to counter it and I certainly can't chase them down. Calling all redline rail snipers cowardly, is foolish. They are playing well within the boundaries of the game allowed by CCP. Yes unfair, and it always has been. This has been a hot issue since I started playing. But I'm not going so far as calling it cowardly, as it WORKS. But all of this, as it would seem, is a matter of opinion. Can we stop this back and forth? If there is one thing we can agree upon, it is something needs to be done about redline railers, or even redline snipers for that matter. If I had thought it was ok I would have never suggested anything in the first place and left it with the top portion. Terrain is not something that can be readily changed(at least I don't think) but a simple range nerf would help reduce the ability to redline rail. Given the strength of hardeners, being forced to engage a little closer with your rail isn't such a bad thing. Nuff Said
Valmorgan Aubaris Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate 111	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:40:00 - [39] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: Let's please brainstorm together to get some ideas going on how to remove their ability to 'kill-and-not-be-killed' apart from an organised squadron of assault dropship pilots. Tanks should be earned like Orbitals are with WP. Problem solved. EVE alliance seeks mercs, join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today! Let's gank Scotty.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 413	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:44:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim wrote: Falloff Damage /thread Bingo. Rail guns should lose 1% damage for every 10 meters they travel...so a 500 meter shot would result in a loss of 50% damage. Life is killing me.

Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 414	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:46:00 - [41] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Rail keeps the skies clear No rail = ADS/DS heaven and never shot down again This may be the first time that I've ever agreed with Takahiro on a post Personally, I only bring out my tank when I spot a dropship in the air or a blaster tank on the ground. Rail tanks aren't too much of a concern unless my side has blaster tanks that need cover. Life is killing me.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 414	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:48:00 - [42] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: Let's please brainstorm together to get some ideas going on how to remove their ability to 'kill-and-not-be-killed' apart from an organised squadron of assault dropship pilots. Umm...if you can get hit by a rail tank, you can hit the rail tank back. A shot or two is usually enough to make the red liner think twice about their location; otherwise, pair up two rail tanks and take him out. Life is killing me.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 365	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:55:00 - [43] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Foxhound Elite wrote: Let's please brainstorm together to get some ideas going on how to remove their ability to 'kill-and-not-be-killed' apart from an organised squadron of assault dropship pilots. Umm...if you can get hit by a rail tank, you can hit the rail tank back. A shot or two is usually enough to make the red liner think twice about their location; otherwise, pair up two rail tanks and take him out. Very hard to hit a redliner that sits at a higher elevation relative to you. Thing is, all they got to do is backup, recharge, and engage again. So it effectively renders at least one tank immobile, watching for the redliner. Imagine though, if a redline tank ran duel hardeners, or triple hardeners. They could easily tank your damage and force you back or outright kill ya. Not to mention, the fact that the redline keeps any other tanks from getting near to him. Add another redline railer to the mix, and you get trouble. Nuff Said
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 169	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:35:00 - [44] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Foxhound Elite wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: Sweet tears. Well, it should be addressed. How about; No Risk, No ISK: If you're camping in the redline, you get no ISK for any WP made while you're in there. I don't like that approach, it doesn't address being redlined in a game. It just means when you get stomped, not only do you lose a match, you get no rewards. Way harsh. if your rail sniping when your redlined, your probably not doing much anyway. if you lose, you lose unfortunately. VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2537	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:41:00 - [45] - Quote I can't believe there are people who actively defend rail sniping from the red line. Even more I cannot believe there are people who think that dropships would run around untouched destroying everything if they weren't hiding in the red line rail sniping them out of the air from 500+m out. I hope to god no developer listens to these people as rails are the most imbalanced piece of vehicle weaponry in this game. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
xSynnx x Requiem of Shadows DEADSPACE SOCIETY 22	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:45:00 - [46] - Quote This doesnt fully address the problem, but perhaps decreasing projectile velocity would help. Make it harder to hit something on the move. Takes more skill. just a thought.
Big miku Nation of Miku 324	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:46:00 - [47] - Quote I shoot down ADS all the time with my Rail tank while out of the redline, I sometimes use my FG to do so as well. Just ask snugglze or what ever his name is (sorry bro, cannot recall)
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 229	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:54:00 - [48] - Quote Big miku wrote: I shoot down ADS all the time with my Rail tank while out of the redline, I sometimes use my FG to do so as well. Just ask snugglze or what ever his name is (sorry bro, cannot recall) because the railgun, assault forgegun and breach forgegun are overpowered what were they thinking putting that damage and having low hp vehicles in the game? I use a tablet so beware of typos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 229	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:57:00 - [49] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Rail keeps the skies clear No rail = ADS/DS heaven and never shot down again This may be the first time that I've ever agreed with Takahiro on a post Personally, I only bring out my tank when I spot a dropship in the air or a blaster tank on the ground. Rail tanks aren't too much of a concern unless my side has any vehicle about to lose 2 matches payout. fixed I use a tablet so beware of typos
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1150	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:48:00 - [50] - Quote Make it so you can't shoot in or out of the redline. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3101	Posted - 2014.01.06 23:49:00 - [51] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Make it so you cant' shoot in or out of the redline. Then what happens when your team gets redlined by 7 tanks? Falloff damage would be a much better way of handling things. CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 612	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:01:00 - [52] - Quote Serimos Haeraven wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: As was identified in another thread, the maps are the issue. There should be no clear line of sight of the battlefield from the redline, IMO. Yes I think this is mostly a map design issue. But i don't think that would stop dropship 1-2 shotting from the redline at all. Sure, they couldn't see the main battlefield, but putting the redline "below the sea-level of the battleground" means that there would be a pretty drasticly angled slope from the redline onto the battlefield, and what does that mean? Redline railgun tanks could simply roll up on the slope and pelt DS pilots in the air easily, still.. Yup, it would be nice if it was flat with steep rock formations or mesas that tanks couldn't get on obscuring their view.
DROPSHIP CAPTAIN Valor Coalition 11	Posted - 2014.02.23 14:15:00 - [53] - Quote I saw hunger games part 2 last night and I saw a force shield being used to "block Off" areas in that movie/battle.I know its irrelevant but a force shield is needed to prevent us dropship pilots from getting trolled by some scrub in the red line with a 2 shot tank. if you red line camp you cant kill no one there if you in the red line same applies in reverse, no shots can be fired from the red line making this not a problem anymore. hot fixing what i mentioned should only take 2 hours and 25 min or less if you are doing it right so hop to it before we all leave your product dust 514 and switch to a competitor who might shut you down ccp.. but chances are you'll read and listen to the stupid people who think they know everything about what should or shouldn't be done with your product dust 514. Hey look for those of you know what your writing about stuff that will make our video game product better please troll the trolls who destroy dust this way, my friend lest to play a different game because ccp and china suck at reading basic English and using judgement on what should be done. The smart people need to take over and run over the trolls no matter what they say giving no chance of speech since it's garbage. best of luck dealing with them and the red line tankers what a scrub. Had to make that clear. also a force shield dividing the redline and the actual fight so both parties can't interfere with one another so you can rail gun tank all day in the red line or in reverse and not do damage or anything making my ship get hit or yours whatever this will be fixed if you make a dang divider that none can damage one another. oh and if you try catching wise by killing people out of the red line then running back in you get kicked for 4 hours for cheating. thank you and eat it trolls your going to all be weeded out and killed one by one forcing you all trolls to got back to cod
C0TS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2014.02.23 18:51:00 - [54] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I can't believe there are people who actively defend rail sniping from the red line. Even more I cannot believe there are people who think that dropships would run around untouched destroying everything if they weren't hiding in the red line rail sniping them out of the air from 500+m out. I hope to god no developer listens to these people as rails are the most imbalanced piece of vehicle weaponry in this game. This is the major problem here, we've all seen or at least should be watching your videos. But you cannot possibly tell me you think you have the right to spawn-fk the lesser player or noobs (as some elite, influential people call for the end of the redline) or prevent one side from running over the other. I just watched the video where the guy says you're being reported and its embarrassing that you and you're elite elite elite team are running over matches full of decent players to noobs. It seems if you haven't pushed someone into the redline (as often happens by the 4-5 minute mark by elite squads), there would no place else for weaker team to spawn without you or other elite teams spawn camping them. Even in ambush, it's just a matter of moments before CCP "best spawn" places someone somewhere different and it repeats itself. Many of the game's results are pre-determined, one side is normally much better than the other and there's little the weaker side can do to stop it from being a massacre. Dust 514 is two games, one played by the elite and one played by the rest and unfortunately they are playing in the same matches.** If CCP addressed some major issues (match balancing, a mercenary mod like CoD, separating matches based on WP or SP) these things are less likely to happen. Then you can look into the smaller issues of less skilled players trying to shoot down dropships via rail guns tanks. The elite have no trouble taking out the best dropships or tanks with 3-4 Proto forge gun hits but unless you fall into that category it is not a simple task. How else do you expect a weaker team who has been redlined to take on dropships? A few people take out a militia forge gun or swarm launcher, one hit, dropship uses hardeners and escape out of range. Or maybe someone jumps into a turret, which has yet to be destroyed, and gets off 1-2 shots before it flies too high or turret is destroyed. As a defensive play for many players, pulling out a rail gun tank seems to be the only way to stop a drop ship or tank or even infantry from red line hunting you and your team. Elite players call for the removal of the redline or any tactic weaker players use to mess with elite players. After they've been redlined (redline sniping or redline rail guns) seems to way for the weak to rub the elite the wrong way. Why can't people just die respectfully and want to be stomped by elite players?!? The very least these people can do is get off a few well placed shots at tanks or dropships who are sitting at the redline waiting for someone's head to pop up over the hills. If you're going to lose, which most players know before the match or by the 5 minute mark of the game, why not go down swinging? Fix the matchmaking process by balancing the teams and then the community can discuss tactics, which they believe are cheap. But you can't have one team roll the other and then complain they're hiding and being cheap. -Cots
Vegetation Monster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2014.02.23 18:56:00 - [55] - Quote Foxhound Elite wrote: Let's please brainstorm together to get some ideas going on how to remove their ability to 'kill-and-not-be-killed' apart from an organised squadron of assault dropship pilots. It's not even the redline, it's the railgun firing at 60 rpm after than a human can even process the shot and do the necessary thing to counter it. Skit: pilot: ohhh hit with powerful railgun railgunner: loooooooooooooooooooooooool noob pilot: 1 (second later) WTFFFFF?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! fuking particle cannon pilot: (after hitting ground and reading kill feed) OH WTFF!!!! A MILITA RAILGUN DISHING OUT OVER 5000 dmg in 2 seconds. FUK THIS GAME!!! B Double O T Y


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