The big problem with limits is that it can stop certain players from taking part fairly. I am a dropship specialist. If you limit the number of vehicles too much then I may often find myself in a match where I cannot use the items i have skills in. In this case I am forced to use militia suits to go against much better suits.

I am lucky though in that I have enough SP to have a proto suit or two I can use to complete in a game when I am not using a LAV, Tank or Dropship. But many do not due to the large SP needed to skill vehicles. My AV specialist character doesnot face this issue. On that characterI can always field my strongest Swarm launcher or forge. On my Vehicle guy team quota often leaves me going for my second best option.

Consider if we limited the number or Combat Rifles in a match to 2. Would that be fair? what would those players with only skills in the CR do in that match? A typical vehicle player has poor suits. In a too strictly limited match where they cannot use their chosen profession they may leave.

Tank spam is an issue, but I am not sure a strict limit is the solution here. Is the issue the number of tanks or is 7 tanks only an issue because the maps are small, or cover is limited or that the player count is too low to allow a strong enough infantry responce?

hear me out:

Problem - Where is the AV?

The big problem with limits is that it can stop certain players from taking part fairly. I am a dropship specialist. If you limit the number of vehicles too much then I may often find myself in a match where I cannot use the items i have skills in. In this case I am forced to use militia suits to go against much better suits.

I am lucky though in that I have enough SP to have a proto suit or two I can use to complete in a game when I am not using a LAV, Tank or Dropship. But many do not due to the large SP needed to skill vehicles. My AV specialist character does not face this issue. On that character I can always field my strongest Swarm launcher or forge. On my Vehicle guy team quota often leaves me going for my second best option.

Consider if we limited the number or Combat Rifles in a match to 2. Would that be fair? what would those players with only skills in the CR do in that match? A typical vehicle player has poor suits. In a too strictly limited match where they cannot use their chosen profession they may leave.

Tank spam is an issue, but I am not sure a strict limit is the solution here. Is the issue the number of tanks or is 7 tanks only an issue because the maps are small, or cover is limited or that the player count is too low to allow a strong enough infantry responce?

Problem - Where is the AV?

The big problem with limits is that it can stop certain players from taking part fairly. I am a dropship specialist. If you limit the number of vehicles too much then I may often find myself in a match where I cannot use the items i have skills in. In this case I am forced to use militia suits to go against much better suits.

I am lucky though in that I have enough SP to have a proto suit or two I can use to complete in a game when I am not using a LAV, Tank or Dropship. But many do not due to the large SP needed to skill vehicles. My AV specialist character does not face this issue. On that character I can always field my strongest Swarm launcher or forge. On my Vehicle guy team quota often leaves me going for my second best option.

Consider if we limited the number or Combat Rifles in a match to 2. Would that be fair? what would those players with only skills in the CR do in that match? A typical vehicle player has poor suits. In a too strictly limited match where they cannot use their chosen profession they may leave.

Tank spam is an issue, but I am not sure a strict limit is the solution here. Is the issue the number of tanks or is 7 tanks only an issue because the maps are small? or cover is limited? or that the player count is too low to allow a strong enough infantry responce? Tank imbalance is a deeper issue than just raw numbers. That said some way to balance it with the maps and sockets we have now is needed. Is a strict limit the solution? Perhaps on a map by map basis. I think we need something else though.

It's the number of tanks allowed on the field at once hear me out:

Ambush- 7 vehicals possible, possibly 7 tanks
Domination- 7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks
Skirmish-7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks

now the problem with this, you see my point?

ambush limited to 1 or 2 tanks per side at once(still allowing 4-7 vehicals)

Domination/skirmish 3-4 tanks allowed at once per side (still allow 7 vehicals)

I mean lets all face it tanks are powerful and they should be,but a battlefield were armour is more abundant than infantry is weird.
Just brainstorming *please leave constructive thoughts and viewpoints*

if they're was 4 good av user fighting and blowing up tanks together in every match like they're was in chromosome when everyone had balls..vs suryas and sagaris ..they could tank spam no mlt tank could take 2-4 av and a good tanker on


in lavs they were to mobile hitting and maintain dps stream throughout the field..of course now they hide and cry or peak out of fort on foot like scrubs

Hard limits just make the game less can it can be.

Hard limits on tanks, hard limits on equipment, next it will be hard limits on suit types.

Instead of balancing via reduction we should balance by adding.

Tanks a problem? Add webifiers.

People who advocate balancing by limits are thinking too small. Use your imaginations!
If we limit everything that isn't working just right we will cut the majority of the game away and everyone will leave due to crushing boredom.

It's the number of tanks allowed on the field at once hear me out:

Ambush- 7 vehicals possible, possibly 7 tanks
Domination- 7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks
Skirmish-7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks

now the problem with this, you see my point?

ambush limited to 1 or 2 tanks per side at once(still allowing 4-7 vehicals)

Domination/skirmish 3-4 tanks allowed at once per side (still allow 7 vehicals)

I mean lets all face it tanks are powerful and they should be,but a battlefield were armour is more abundant than infantry is weird.
Just brainstorming *please leave constructive thoughts and viewpoints*

i personally think that if everyone on the field wants to run tank they should, no limits all 32 peope burning up that isk if thats how they wanna do it, but tell me this in a dom or skirmish with 32 tanks roving the field who is going to capture objectives?

i dont like restrictions perod so to me vehicle or infantry only modes are crap ideas

Teamwork is the problem not vehicles. People don't work together or switch to AV, HAVs are rarely indestructible and a few good AV guys can at least push the HAV out of the area. Militia HAVs are easy and fun to pop and I don't want them to show up less because it is more fun to waste peoples ISK.

Advance prox mines should be on almost every suit. If everyone spammed three standard prox mines throughout the battle then there would be a lot less tears about HAV. Three mines doing 500 damage each * 16 is lots of damage and it makes driving vehicles more dangerous. Skill up some AV and push hard on vehicles because they will pop and after a merc loses a HAV or two then they switch to infantry.

So 7 tanks is more people than 9 infantry? Having a tank doesn't magically increase the maximum player count.

Some good points there Judge hope you had a good Christmas and New year been meaning to catch up with yourself for a chat on the current build.

Rpastry had an idea that I was quite fond of especially for Ambush as it's where I'm seeing the worst side of the current HAV FOTM the idea goes in line with a certain amount of resource points given to each side to spend on vehicles now in a pub match it will likely run into people calling in gear as fast as possible but I haven't figured out that bit yet. However we'll only look at ambush here for now as it's all my post hogmanay brain can handle!

Ok for Ambush each side gets 11 resource points.

HAVs cost 4, Dropships cost 3 and LAVs cost 2.

So max of 2 HAVs per side plus either a Dropship or LAV.

Or 3 Dropships and a LAV.

Or 5 LAVs and many other combinations in between but I think it would scale stuff better especially for Ambush which generally has the smallest maps, most new players grinding SP and Vets taking a break grinding ISK.

Obviously the resource points would increase for different match types and game modes but I think it would also add a neat tactical advantage to other game modes as you would have to pick your vehicle lineup carefully.

As you said it would be no good if you found your pilots without available resource points to call in their vehicle just because a bueberry spawned in a bunch of LAVs thinking he was helping. Maybe there would be a way to make a system that would call in the more point expensive vehicles first as they would be better for the team.

I'm not too bothered about vehicles in the current build just the numbers, last night for instance on Ambush a guy rolled in his Maddy to the front of the base with the donut "No worries" ran to the supply depot grabbed my Dau-2 on Skinweave and drove him off with a couple of swarmers pitching in but then 2 came from the other entrance murdered us and then the Maddy's oppo rolled in and soon enough the original Maddy rolled in again. By this stage all on comms where running basic AV so 5 maybe 6 guys but their infantry were in the city and we were done. So my only objection is that while a small team of AV can hold off 1 HAV easily in a small map they certainly can't handle 4 and if everyone decked out in Proto AV then fine but that's not going to happen as you've still got to worry about the infantry.

Right then I'm off to go and massage my Ishukone Assault FG for tonights festivities!!! Happy hunting!!!

Galdor; Is it fair that one set of players cannot field the gear they want when eveyone else can field whatever they want every time? Even for a week (which is a totally unrealistic comment btw)? Also just because you can do something does not mean that others can. This game should be fun and fair for all.

Should someone who has decided to go into vehicles on a new character have to split their SP into suits and guns as well as vehicles while a new player who want to just go guns does not have to split their SP?

i dont like restrictions perod so to me vehicle or infantry only modes are crap ideas

So 7 tanks is more people than 9 infantry? Having a tank doesn't magically increase the maximum player count.

If we all spawned in are tanks in the beginning then it would be fair but usally the team with the most tanks out on the field first wins, if your trying to call in a tank and a madrugar with ion cannon is chasing you to the redline I'm sure you would change your viewpoint of the number of tanks allowed.

It's the number of tanks allowed on the field at once hear me out:

Ambush- 7 vehicals possible, possibly 7 tanks
Domination- 7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks
Skirmish-7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks

now the problem with this, you see my point?

ambush limited to 1 or 2 tanks per side at once(still allowing 4-7 vehicals)

Domination/skirmish 3-4 tanks allowed at once per side (still allow 7 vehicals)

I mean lets all face it tanks are powerful and they should be,but a battlefield were armour is more abundant than infantry is weird.
Just brainstorming *please leave constructive thoughts and viewpoints*

Problem - Where is the AV?

Seriously. The solution is in my sig. Light AV weaponry as primary weaponry just doesn't make sense. You have to sacrifice too much in order to fit one. They are not powerful by themselves, and they shouldn't be powerful by themselves. And no, you cannot force teamwork. It will never happen.

However, by making swarms and plasma cannons sidearms (or rather "secondary" weapons), carrying light AV weaponry becomes practical, rather than a novelty for hipsters (inb4 plc hipsters).

As light AV weaponry become practical to fit on a dropsuit, more people will turn to light AV to, at least, surpress tanks that are in cool down. At most, many players will field light AV, putting the tankers skill to the test.

Since viable tanks can be fielded as cheaply as dropsuits, making tanks have POTENTIALLY less survivability is not an issue. Garbage tankers should go negative, good tankers will still go 50-0.

All numbers (damage, fitting reqs, ammo count, ect.) for light AV weaponry can be rebalanced for the side arm slot.