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Snagman 313
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
227
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Posted - 2014.01.04 12:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:The big problem with limits is that it can stop certain players from taking part fairly. I am a dropship specialist. If you limit the number of vehicles too much then I may often find myself in a match where I cannot use the items i have skills in. In this case I am forced to use militia suits to go against much better suits.
I am lucky though in that I have enough SP to have a proto suit or two I can use to complete in a game when I am not using a LAV, Tank or Dropship. But many do not due to the large SP needed to skill vehicles. My AV specialist character does not face this issue. On that character I can always field my strongest Swarm launcher or forge. On my Vehicle guy team quota often leaves me going for my second best option.
Consider if we limited the number or Combat Rifles in a match to 2. Would that be fair? what would those players with only skills in the CR do in that match? A typical vehicle player has poor suits. In a too strictly limited match where they cannot use their chosen profession they may leave.
Tank spam is an issue, but I am not sure a strict limit is the solution here. Is the issue the number of tanks or is 7 tanks only an issue because the maps are small, or cover is limited or that the player count is too low to allow a strong enough infantry responce?
Some good points there Judge hope you had a good Christmas and New year been meaning to catch up with yourself for a chat on the current build.
Rpastry had an idea that I was quite fond of especially for Ambush as it's where I'm seeing the worst side of the current HAV FOTM the idea goes in line with a certain amount of resource points given to each side to spend on vehicles now in a pub match it will likely run into people calling in gear as fast as possible but I haven't figured out that bit yet. However we'll only look at ambush here for now as it's all my post hogmanay brain can handle!
Ok for Ambush each side gets 11 resource points.
HAVs cost 4, Dropships cost 3 and LAVs cost 2.
So max of 2 HAVs per side plus either a Dropship or LAV.
Or 3 Dropships and a LAV.
Or 5 LAVs and many other combinations in between but I think it would scale stuff better especially for Ambush which generally has the smallest maps, most new players grinding SP and Vets taking a break grinding ISK.
Obviously the resource points would increase for different match types and game modes but I think it would also add a neat tactical advantage to other game modes as you would have to pick your vehicle lineup carefully.
As you said it would be no good if you found your pilots without available resource points to call in their vehicle just because a bueberry spawned in a bunch of LAVs thinking he was helping. Maybe there would be a way to make a system that would call in the more point expensive vehicles first as they would be better for the team.
I'm not too bothered about vehicles in the current build just the numbers, last night for instance on Ambush a guy rolled in his Maddy to the front of the base with the donut "No worries" ran to the supply depot grabbed my Dau-2 on Skinweave and drove him off with a couple of swarmers pitching in but then 2 came from the other entrance murdered us and then the Maddy's oppo rolled in and soon enough the original Maddy rolled in again. By this stage all on comms where running basic AV so 5 maybe 6 guys but their infantry were in the city and we were done. So my only objection is that while a small team of AV can hold off 1 HAV easily in a small map they certainly can't handle 4 and if everyone decked out in Proto AV then fine but that's not going to happen as you've still got to worry about the infantry.
Right then I'm off to go and massage my Ishukone Assault FG for tonights festivities!!! Happy hunting!!!
Closed Beta AV veteran
I drink because I play Dust
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Snagman 313
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
234
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Posted - 2014.01.05 08:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:if they're was 4 good av user fighting and blowing up tanks together in every match like they're was in chromosome when everyone had balls..vs suryas and sagaris ..they could tank spam no mlt tank could take 2-4 av and a good tanker on
in lavs they were to mobile hitting and maintain dps stream throughout the field..of course now they hide and cry or peak out of fort on foot like scrubs
Hmm I think I see where you're coming from. I will admit that it's not too much of an issue to deal with HAVs in Skirmish where you can manoeuvre and have the objectives to draw them into also you have the different points you can spawn from to get around.
However in Ambush where you're lucky if anyone is on comms other than your squad and people are just looking for kills not the tactical advantage of removing HAVs, then thats when I see the issue of taking 2/3rds of your squad or more and going AV as it does nothing to benefit you or your bank balance.
We have been running a quite a few ambush matches helping the blueberries but I still feel 4 HAVs on an ambush map is too much for a random ambush blueberry to cope with especially when I see all 4 running Maddys and Gunnlogis are in the same squad (You know who you are). I mean fair enough you earn't your toys use them but keep your Challenger tank out of the Nursery school sandpit!
Closed Beta AV veteran
I drink because I play Dust
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Snagman 313
Carbon 7
CRONOS.
235
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Posted - 2014.01.05 09:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Hard limits just make the game less can it can be.
Hard limits on tanks, hard limits on equipment, next it will be hard limits on suit types.
Instead of balancing via reduction we should balance by adding.
Tanks a problem? Add webifiers.
People who advocate balancing by limits are thinking too small. Use your imaginations!
If we limit everything that isn't working just right we will cut the majority of the game away and everyone will leave due to crushing boredom.
I totally agree that we should balance by adding but I also have to face the fact that as a Heavy AV player I have one weapon that is slewed in favour of armour damage and have since I began playing..... so so long ago....... sorry had another flashback!
My greatest challenge right now is double and triple stacked shield hardener Gunnloggi HAVs the awnser to these would be the heavy Amarrian Laser cannon which has been hinted at for quite a while (Especially when you look at the redundant skill on the sentinel suit!!!). We should hopefully be getting WP's for AV in 1.8 which will bring people back to the AV fold but never the less we have a current problem of the tank spam on small maps which unless something simple is done in the short term to be reviewed later we will find the propagation of HAVs to be unstoppable.
The game was always meant to be rock, paper, scissors however when I run my anti infantry gear and then roll into a Sica/Soma/Maddy/Gunnloggi I naturally tell the guys and go AV say I drive him off with my Advanced suit, I will usually die on retreat to the Supply depot to infantry or another tank so I bring in my militia Sica with hardener and damage mod 80k of small arms fire invulnerability and with the damage mod on 2000 dmg per shot.
Basically all it becomes is he's got a tank I'd better get mine and then escalation... There is no doubt that HAVs must be gnarly machines of death but honestly to meet the damage alone of the Sica I need a proto FG and proto suit to mount the modules on to just drive him back and regardless of wether you're in a squad or in a LAV you are highly vulnerable to small arms fire without a primary infantry weapon. To be honest we have on occasion used a militia HAV instead of a LAV to transport the our 3 man FG squad..... See where I'm going with this..... Even LAVs at around 12k a pop for a militia can be replaced with a 70-80k Militia HAV and you'll be damn sure to earn a lot more WP's with it than your LAV.
What I'm asking for is some mitigation of HAVs not extermination whether it be bigger maps in ambush, more AV weapons (Give the heavy some love you know you want too), implement AV WP's or for the time being limit the HAVs on small maps and maybe look at it again later when we have other stuff or if the Tankers start getting stomped.
Closed Beta AV veteran
I drink because I play Dust
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