DUST Search - Tanks aren't to blame

Protocake JR wrote:

Seriously. The solution is in my sig. Light AV weaponry as primary weaponry just doesn't make sense. You have to sacrifice too much in order to fit one. They are not powerful by themselves, and they shouldn't be powerful by themselves. And no, you cannot force teamwork. It will never happen.

However, by making swarms and plasma cannons sidearms (or rather "secondary" weapons), carrying light AV weaponry becomes practical, rather than a novelty for hipsters (inb4 plc hipsters).

As light AV weaponry become practical to fit on a dropsuit, more people will turn to light AV to, at least, surpress tanks that are in cool down. At most, many players will field light AV, putting the tankers skill to the test.

Since viable tanks can be fielded as cheaply as dropsuits, making tanks have POTENTIALLY less survivability is not an issue. Garbage tankers should go negative, good tankers will still go 50-0.

All numbers (damage, fitting reqs, ammo count, ect.) for light AV weaponry can be rebalanced for the side arm slot.

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Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards 141	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:23:00 - [31] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Galdor; Is it fair that one set of players cannot field the gear they want when eveyone else can field whatever they want every time? Even for a week (which is a totally unrealistic comment btw)? Also just because you can do something does not mean that others can. This game should be fun and fair for all. Should someone who has decided to go into vehicles on a new character have to split their SP into suits and guns as well as vehicles while a new player who want to just go guns does not have to split their SP? If we all spawned in are tanks in the beginning then it would be fair but usally the team with the most tanks out on the field first wins, if your trying to call in a tank and a madrugar with ion cannon is chasing you to the redline I'm sure you would change your viewpoint of the number of tanks allowed. (-í° -£-û -í°) against my adversaries.
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards 141	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:26:00 - [32] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: i dont like restrictions perod so to me vehicle or infantry only modes are crap ideas If we had more restrictions like standard only ambush , I'm pretty sure no one could ever complain of proto stompers again. In ambush at least. (-í° -£-û -í°) against my adversaries.
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards 142	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:34:00 - [33] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Levithunder wrote: It's the number of tanks allowed on the field at once hear me out: Ambush- 7 vehicals possible, possibly 7 tanks Domination- 7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks Skirmish-7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks now the problem with this, you see my point? ambush limited to 1 or 2 tanks per side at once(still allowing 4-7 vehicals) Domination/skirmish 3-4 tanks allowed at once per side (still allow 7 vehicals) I mean lets all face it tanks are powerful and they should be,but a battlefield were armour is more abundant than infantry is weird. Just brainstorming please leave constructive thoughts and viewpoints So 7 tanks is more people than 9 infantry? Having a tank doesn't magically increase the maximum player count. Ugh you didn't read-_- 7 tanks for the 16 people on one side is too much for ambush, I like tanking. I like infantry. I have 53,000 lifetime kills I think I know what I'm talking about. Tanking in skirmish is diffrent from tanking in ambush, Dom/skirmish have safe redlined you can call in vehicals to counter the enemy team. (-í° -£-û -í°) against my adversaries.
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards 142	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:36:00 - [34] - Quote Levithunder wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Galdor; Is it fair that one set of players cannot field the gear they want when eveyone else can field whatever they want every time? Even for a week (which is a totally unrealistic comment btw)? Also just because you can do something does not mean that others can. This game should be fun and fair for all. Should someone who has decided to go into vehicles on a new character have to split their SP into suits and guns as well as vehicles while a new player who want to just go guns does not have to split their SP? If we all spawned in are tanks in the beginning then it would be fair but usally the team with the most tanks out on the field first wins, if your trying to call in a tank and a madrugar with ion cannon is chasing you to the redline I'm sure you would change your viewpoint of the number of tanks allowed. That brings back many memories (-í° -£-û -í°) against my adversaries.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 220	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:43:00 - [35] - Quote Levithunder wrote: It's the number of tanks allowed on the field at once hear me out: Ambush- 7 vehicals possible, possibly 7 tanks Domination- 7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks Skirmish-7 vehicals possible,possibly 7 tanks now the problem with this, you see my point? ambush limited to 1 or 2 tanks per side at once(still allowing 4-7 vehicals) Domination/skirmish 3-4 tanks allowed at once per side (still allow 7 vehicals) I mean lets all face it tanks are powerful and they should be,but a battlefield were armour is more abundant than infantry is weird. Just brainstorming please leave constructive thoughts and viewpoints I have been saying this on the forums for days now. Open Beta Fed 16th. Scout fix + Heavy suits + Heavy guns = soonGäó
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3286	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:45:00 - [36] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Problem - Where is the AV? In a Railgun Sica w/Damage Mods CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
cfho83 cfho L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:51:00 - [37] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Seriously. The solution is in my sig. Light AV weaponry as primary weaponry just doesn't make sense. You have to sacrifice too much in order to fit one. They are not powerful by themselves, and they shouldn't be powerful by themselves. And no, you cannot force teamwork. It will never happen. However, by making swarms and plasma cannons sidearms (or rather "secondary" weapons), carrying light AV weaponry becomes practical, rather than a novelty for hipsters (inb4 plc hipsters). As light AV weaponry become practical to fit on a dropsuit, more people will turn to light AV to, at least, surpress tanks that are in cool down. At most, many players will field light AV, putting the tankers skill to the test. Since viable tanks can be fielded as cheaply as dropsuits, making tanks have POTENTIALLY less survivability is not an issue. Garbage tankers should go negative, good tankers will still go 50-0. All numbers (damage, fitting reqs, ammo count, ect.) for light AV weaponry can be rebalanced for the side arm slot. i don't post on the forums much because its kinda like when you go in the corner to complain about something you don't like with your friends, or complaining about how a nation's military power should act, when you ppl aren't brave enough to join and fight for what u believe in. but i totally agree with this post, now when ppl even notice or think u have a swarm, they will destroy u immediately. and then, u are stuck with ur sidearm, nova knives, pistol, flaylock, smg. unless u are a god of sidearms, u are ****. but with this post, i closed my eyes and imagined swarms being secondary, meaning u could at least have ur ar, cr, rr, scr. making taking down vehicles not so impossible. that is a great idea. don't know if CCP is listening, but i support this. it wouldn't be asking to much to balance the game like this. but imo, work on THE GAME before making steps to break a broken system further. take ur time and fix the game, then add new features, slowly introduce us to bigger maps, diverse vehicles, diverse maps, ( that volcano ** sometimes messes with my team mates and myself, they look like red dots). so yeah, make the swarm and plasma a sidearm, wouldn'';t hurt to try
Qn1f3 Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:56:00 - [38] - Quote New Eden should be harsh, cold and unforgiving. No matter in which role you visit it. In the same matter it should not be restricted, because part of the soul is to be able to create your own path. May it be to mow people down with tanks, or swap to next flavour of the month or do as I play it for fun. Whilst there are some issues currently, has been previousely and will be in the future. The game rests on a solid foundation. In this thread there are a lot of valid concerns that could and will change the ways of war as we know it. WP for damaging vehicles is a good point for encouraging players to put SP into AV skills. No restrictions, just don't. The problem really is that allmost all maps and every corner of most maps are reachable by HAVs. Redesign maps with CQC and Urban Warfare in mind(not that it should be completely isolated, just harder for vehicles to reach and more choke points for actual guerilla tactics). Webifiers or Stasis fields, looking vehicles in place with or without rendering them immune to damage or not. Which allows the escape for infantry or damnation for the vehicle. *()Fix Smart Spawn in Ambush, not completely relative to this topic. But a lot of matches ends up just getting hammered within a isolated area of the map with no chance of escaping. ()*Nobody puts AV in corner, AV is in need of rebalancing to pose an actual threat to vehicles. As of now sitting in a HAV is pretty comfy and you do not have to do lot to be able to steamroll the opposition. I take no claim to ideas initially posted in this thread or other for that part, just thought a nice roundup of the many fine ideas would be nice. As for pure vehicular combat, I have no clue whatsoever since I tend to walk the miles by foot, or run at least.
Scott Knight Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:15:00 - [39] - Quote There should absolutely be a limit to the number of tanks one side can have out at once. It becomes an almost impossible battle once you end up going against four non-militia grade tanks. At present with the increase in tanks, SP costs are too high to mount a lone counter against even one good tank. I've dumped some skill points into swarm launchers, and 100k into a milita tank to potential combat them. Still its going to take a while to get a forge gun/ swarm suit up and running with equal firepower to potentially deal with the tanks. Basically it takes a lot of skill points to get a swarm launcher on competing grounds. Obviously teamwork goes a long way, which is lacking in the game. I still think the best solution is to limit the number of tanks on each side to 3. Perhaps waiving that limit with faction battles and other high profile events. While I understand people playing tanks having to potentially use something else for a game, going up against 4-7 tanks makes the game unfun for people running dropsuits. Essentially you risk that unfunness causing people to stop playing. The optimal solution would be if everyone started making AV suits and AV counter measures and gave tanks a run for their money... however, since that isn't happening, limiting tanks seems to be the only viable solution at present. An alternative solution could be to allow "bunkers" where you could get a tank/vehicle behind the redline without the possiblity of it getting shot at or shot down within five seconds of deployment.
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 977	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:41:00 - [40] - Quote There should absolutely be no limit. If there are already 7 vehicles on the map, all of which might have very little sp in them, how fair is it to someone who put a ton into vehicles but can't use it? Patch notes: Limited the amount of heavies to 5 per team. Limited the amount if ARs to 5 per team. Doesn't that sound extremely unfair to you? What if someone is only skilled into ARs as a primary assault weapon. clicks on fitting with AR Words in red pop up. "AR quota has been reached" (ARs can be replaced by anything else in this example, like a heavy, sniper rifle, scout, etc.) The solution as judge has said isn't only in the raw number in stats or ever the amount on the field. Changes much bigger need to be made. Such as map size or building space only accessible to infantry. Things more physical. Also a larger player per match would help. Prt SL, SCR, SR . ADV FGs, MDs, LaZor, KNs. Gunnlogi, Falchion, Python, Caldari LDS. (+require) Prt L. Am, Adv HVY, LGS

Qn1f3 Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2014.01.11 10:43:00 - [41] - Quote By reducing their maneuverability(not the tank itself, they're good as it is), but in the maps will hinder a lot of the domination they currently achieve just by being there. The tanks should be forced to think about their whereabouts and apply situational awareness, hence the only immediate threat for tanks as of now is another tank with rails mounted(or several) lurking in the shadows. There are fixes for this without stangling the gameplay as it is as of now.
devonus durga P.L.A.N. B 26	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:24:00 - [42] - Quote You already are limiting us, and forcing us to run things we don't want. I role assault infantry all day and night, at least I did. Now I have a DMG mod sic a, a suicidal r/e scout, and a militia forge gunner, anfd its all I run now a days. Your saying how would we infantry like to be limited, and in the same sentence how we need to run AV. We are limited. The moment one tank roles up with have to roll AV or be friggen stomped. Your effectively placing a limit because when 2-4 people have to role AV you just made the limit 12 infantry, bring in another tank we need 2 more AV, so we are down to 10 infantry. Bring in all friggen 7 and we need roughly 14 people running AV. we ARE limited. And you don't like being forced to role in suits you don't have points in? Neither do I, I wanna run my lil friggen assault ass off shooting people with an AR. I don't want to have to bring in a tank, I don't want to have to run a suicidal remote explosive plantingscout, iI don't want to run a militia ******* heavy forge gunner, I don't want to have to run a jihad jeep (well OK sometimes I do, its just fun) but I am FORCED to. Suck it up, if I'm forced to run AV to deal with your ass, then you can be forced to run infantry. "Then don't run AV, if you don't want", well then stop telling us the issue is the lack of AV!! Your telling us we have to run AV more and that's the only issue, so your telling us that we are FORCED to run AV to deal with you, where is that any different then being forced to RU. Infantry BC of the vehicle limit? Oh the difference is you might not go 20 and 0 as infantry. Well I'll tell ya what, I don't go 20 and 0 being forced to play AV either.
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards 143	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:24:00 - [43] - Quote If there weren't limits you would probably be murdering your family In the streets........thank god for limits:/ (-í° -£-û -í°) against my adversaries.


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