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CharCharOdell 1738	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:12:00 - [1] - Quote i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Seeth Mensch 2Shitz 1Giggle 93	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:13:00 - [2] - Quote Be my friend? Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 898	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:15:00 - [3] - Quote You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4238	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:20:00 - [4] - Quote I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models.
CharCharOdell 1738	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:22:00 - [5] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
CharCharOdell 1738	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:23:00 - [6] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Awesome Pantaloons Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 178	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:24:00 - [7] - Quote Amen. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4238	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:26:00 - [8] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. The fact that PRO tanks won't be much more powerful is WHY they need toning down. There should be a decent incentive for tankers to upgrade. I don't think it needs much, just a small PG and CPU reduction so you don't see almost full Proto fits on Standard hulls. At the moment, that's reasonable because there ARE no Advanced and Proto hulls, but when there are, things need to be dialed back a little.
CharCharOdell 1739	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:29:00 - [9] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. The fact that PRO tanks won't be much more powerful is WHY they need toning down. There should be a decent incentive for tankers to upgrade. I don't think it needs much, just a small PG and CPU reduction so you don't see almost full Proto fits on Standard hulls. At the moment, that's reasonable because there ARE no Advanced and Proto hulls, but when there are, things need to be dialed back a little. disagree. Making PRO tanks way better than STD tanks will create a huge gap between tankers so that PRO tanks will only be countered by PRO tanks and the problem will persist. PRO tanks should be able to beat STD tanks in a straight up 1 v 1 fight, but not by more than 2 seconds tops. if they're as different as PRO and STD dropsuits, they will never die. I'm a tanker with too much SP and it'd be beyond fun for guys like me, but it'd kill the game. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 898	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:30:00 - [10] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.

GRIM GEAR NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 135	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:30:00 - [11] - Quote Fark all the tanks. It's a bird! No it's a plane! Never mind it's just my shotgun in your face!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4239	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:35:00 - [12] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: disagree. Making PRO tanks way better than STD tanks will create a huge gap between tankers so that PRO tanks will only be countered by PRO tanks and the problem will persist. PRO tanks should be able to beat STD tanks in a straight up 1 v 1 fight, but not by more than 2 seconds tops. if they're as different as PRO and STD dropsuits, they will never die. I'm a tanker with too much SP and it'd be beyond fun for guys like me, but it'd kill the game. I'm not saying to make them WAY better though. Just better ENOUGH to feel like they're worth the effort. At the moment, it sounds like they're going to be in a place where any extra PG and CPU stacked onto PRO hulls will be wasted because by the time you unlock them, you won't NEED the extra fitting capabilities they offer because you can full Proto out your Standard tank and be on practically the same level. I want the difference to be closer to 2s than 0.25 - that's all.
CharCharOdell 1739	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:36:00 - [13] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av wrong answer. AV is good where it is. A proto swarm or forge can 2-3 shot a very well built tank with hardeners off which is what i would call 'working as intended'. It would also make dropships even worse. That solution is what made all vehicles UP in 1.0-1.6 and brought us here in the first place. AV currently requires tactics to kill good tanks, but they SHOULD be able to kill mlt tanks much more easily. Nerfing the PG/CPU and speed on mlt tanks ONLY is a more elegant solution than would stop the mlt tank spam immediately. They cant be as weak as they were in 1.0-1.6, but they need to be somewhere between 1.6 and 1.7 so they aren't running rampant. Honestly, how many games in a row do you see 4-6 WELL FIT tanks-- zero. On the other hand, you see that many 80-100k isk tanks every match because they're too good. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
CharCharOdell 1739	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:38:00 - [14] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: disagree. Making PRO tanks way better than STD tanks will create a huge gap between tankers so that PRO tanks will only be countered by PRO tanks and the problem will persist. PRO tanks should be able to beat STD tanks in a straight up 1 v 1 fight, but not by more than 2 seconds tops. if they're as different as PRO and STD dropsuits, they will never die. I'm a tanker with too much SP and it'd be beyond fun for guys like me, but it'd kill the game. I'm not saying to make them WAY better though. Just better ENOUGH to feel like they're worth the effort. At the moment, it sounds like they're going to be in a place where any extra PG and CPU stacked onto PRO hulls will be wasted because by the time you unlock them, you won't NEED the extra fitting capabilities they offer because you can full Proto out your Standard tank and be on practically the same level. I want the difference to be closer to 2s than 0.25 - that's all. I dont think that they'll be much tougher with 3 extra slots. They may be able to hold out for an extra 30s or punch harder for 20s or move faster for 30s more than a std counterpart, but they wont be much tankier if caught unprepared which is what i want. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 153	Posted - 2013.12.19 05:48:00 - [15] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. ......thats why i can only fit a STD blaster............. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Sgt Buttscratch 1184	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:04:00 - [16] - Quote I have seen a few known tankers rolling in a death crew, but for the most these tank squads are scrubs with a place to hide their skilless bodies. Hense the fact they are easily lured and killed. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3432	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:06:00 - [17] - Quote My sica rail fit would own you... I stomp tanks all day with this **... Except when they spam :( GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3** \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1926	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:11:00 - [18] - Quote there will never be proto tanks or even advanced ones. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4239	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:12:00 - [19] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. ......thats why i can only fit a STD blaster............. On what? With what other modules? And with what skills backing that up?
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 88	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:14:00 - [20] - Quote As a noob if like to see medium class of vehicles. Essentially an armored car with a half decent turret that the driver can operate. Idea is to have something that gets you the skill sets of driving a tank, doesn't cost the earth, but doesn't come with the firepower of a tank nor the hull. I would also like the LAV passenger who is riding shotgun be able to use a shotgun or a small arm too. The current cheapness of vehicles is allowing me to try them out and to figure out their weaknesses. I at least understand tanks blind spots now. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 901	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:16:00 - [21] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av wrong answer. AV is good where it is. A proto swarm or forge can 2-3 shot a very well built tank with hardeners off which is what i would call 'working as intended'. It would also make dropships even worse. That solution is what made all vehicles UP in 1.0-1.6 and brought us here in the first place. AV currently requires tactics to kill good tanks, but they SHOULD be able to kill mlt tanks much more easily. Nerfing the PG/CPU and speed on mlt tanks ONLY is a more elegant solution than would stop the mlt tank spam immediately. They cant be as weak as they were in 1.0-1.6, but they need to be somewhere between 1.6 and 1.7 so they aren't running rampant. Honestly, how many games in a row do you see 4-6 WELL FIT tanks-- zero. On the other hand, you see that many 80-100k isk tanks every match because they're too good. if you are that good you could survive the 150 dmg they took away from FG. You know the Nerf to AV nades was too much. Swarms are trickier. The tracking on swarms should stay locked on until you have to reload. Breaking line of sight would break lock. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
Lorhak Gannarsein 771	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:17:00 - [22] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. ......thats why i can only fit a STD blaster............. On what? With what other modules? And with what skills backing that up? Presumably full rack of complex mods on a Maddy, and lol fitting skills. >Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1522	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:33:00 - [23] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. The fact that PRO tanks won't be much more powerful is WHY they need toning down. There should be a decent incentive for tankers to upgrade. I don't think it needs much, just a small PG and CPU reduction so you don't see almost full Proto fits on Standard hulls. At the moment, that's reasonable because there ARE no Advanced and Proto hulls, but when there are, things need to be dialed back a little. So you want to nerf tanks again? Haven't they suffered enough? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4239	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:39:00 - [24] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: So you want to nerf tanks again? Haven't they suffered enough? I want low-tier tanks nerfed VERY VVVVVVEEEEERRRRRYYYYY SLIGHTLY in conjunction with the release of higher-tier tanks that will be STRONGER than what we currently have. Feel free to call that a nerf if you really want to.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:45:00 - [25] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av LOL Of course you need that crutch back. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:46:00 - [26] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: So you want to nerf tanks again? Haven't they suffered enough? I want low-tier tanks nerfed VERY VVVVVVEEEEERRRRRYYYYY SLIGHTLY in conjunction with the release of higher-tier tanks that will be STRONGER than what we currently have. Feel free to call that a nerf if you really want to. But that's exactly it, it's a nerf. If you're lowering something on it, that lowers its capabilities, hence it's a nerf. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 153	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:46:00 - [27] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. ......thats why i can only fit a STD blaster............. On what? With what other modules? And with what skills backing that up? Presumably full rack of complex mods on a Maddy, and lol fitting skills. armor op 3, i only run out of cpu.............CPU........,the optimization skills are USELESS. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:49:00 - [28] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: My sica rail fit would own you... I stomp tanks all day with this ****... Except when they spam :( I still 2-shot you. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:50:00 - [29] - Quote ladwar wrote: there will never be proto tanks or even advanced ones. Infantry decrees it, and it is so. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4239	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:50:00 - [30] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: So you want to nerf tanks again? Haven't they suffered enough? I want low-tier tanks nerfed VERY VVVVVVEEEEERRRRRYYYYY SLIGHTLY in conjunction with the release of higher-tier tanks that will be STRONGER than what we currently have. Feel free to call that a nerf if you really want to. But that's exactly it, it's a nerf. If you're lowering something on it, that lowers its capabilities, hence it's a nerf. So if they made a new super-proto Forge Gun with 120% of the DPS capabilities of the current Forge Guns, but increase Proto Forge charge time by 7%, Advance by 5% and Standard/MLT by 3%, that would nerf Forge Guns, even though the top-end model would now be STRONGER THAN ANY CURRENT FORGE GUN IN THE GAME? Yep. Logic! Yes, the specific current models of HAV we have now would be nerfed, but only by a REALLY REALLY SMALL AMOUNT, and HAVs as a whole would NOT be nerfed because we'd have USE FOR OUR HIGH-END SKILLS WHICH CURRENTLY DO PRECISELY NOTHING, and we'd be able to create BETTER HAVS THAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:51:00 - [31] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. ......thats why i can only fit a STD blaster............. On what? With what other modules? And with what skills backing that up? I went PRO for all 3 turrets, and on a Madrugar, I fit a STD blaster, STD NOS, STD scanner, and a complex repper and 2 complex hardeners. If resources get nerfed anymore for armor tanks, their viability will go way down. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 901	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:52:00 - [32] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av LOL Of course you need that crutch back. do you even read? A big bad tanker feels sorry for infantry. But he wants the mlt tanks that pop him to be nerfed in reality. I tank just fine and ignore AV. I hunt in a gunlogi, its op. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:53:00 - [33] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av wrong answer. AV is good where it is. A proto swarm or forge can 2-3 shot a very well built tank with hardeners off which is what i would call 'working as intended'. It would also make dropships even worse. That solution is what made all vehicles UP in 1.0-1.6 and brought us here in the first place. AV currently requires tactics to kill good tanks, but they SHOULD be able to kill mlt tanks much more easily. Nerfing the PG/CPU and speed on mlt tanks ONLY is a more elegant solution than would stop the mlt tank spam immediately. They cant be as weak as they were in 1.0-1.6, but they need to be somewhere between 1.6 and 1.7 so they aren't running rampant. Honestly, how many games in a row do you see 4-6 WELL FIT tanks-- zero. On the other hand, you see that many 80-100k isk tanks every match because they're too good. if you are that good you could survive the 150 dmg they took away from FG. You know the Nerf to AV nades was too much. Swarms are trickier. The tracking on swarms should stay locked on until you have to reload. Breaking line of sight would break lock. Why are you complaining about the crutch? Have you ever tried tanking? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:54:00 - [34] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: So you want to nerf tanks again? Haven't they suffered enough? I want low-tier tanks nerfed VERY VVVVVVEEEEERRRRRYYYYY SLIGHTLY in conjunction with the release of higher-tier tanks that will be STRONGER than what we currently have. Feel free to call that a nerf if you really want to. But that's exactly it, it's a nerf. If you're lowering something on it, that lowers its capabilities, hence it's a nerf. So if they made a new super-proto Forge Gun with 120% of the DPS capabilities of the current Forge Guns, but increase Proto Forge charge time by 7%, Advance by 5% and Standard/MLT by 3%, that would nerf Forge Guns, even though the top-end model would now be STRONGER THAN ANY CURRENT FORGE GUN IN THE GAME? Yep. Logic! Yes, the specific current models of HAV we have now would be nerfed, but only by a REALLY REALLY SMALL AMOUNT, and HAVs as a whole would NOT be nerfed because we'd have USE FOR OUR HIGH-END SKILLS WHICH CURRENTLY DO PRECISELY NOTHING, and we'd be able to create BETTER HAVS THAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE. I have no idea what you're talking about. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:55:00 - [35] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av LOL Of course you need that crutch back. do you even read? A big bad tanker feels sorry for infantry. But he wants the mlt tanks that pop him to be nerfed in reality. I tank just fine and ignore AV. I hunt in a gunlogi, its op. LOL If you had a tank, you wouldn't complain about the AV crutch. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 955	Posted - 2013.12.19 06:56:00 - [36] - Quote Excuse me. But why is everyone assuming there will be proto vehicles? Where is the source for this information? Yes there is a HAV op skill that goes to level 5. In EVE you do not get prototype hulls, but you do get a ship operation skill that gives you a bonus for every level. Higher levels also unlock the next tier of ships and specialized variants with tradeoffs. Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 07:02:00 - [37] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Excuse me. But why is everyone assuming there will be proto vehicles? Where is the source for this information? Yes there is a HAV op skill that goes to level 5. In EVE you do not get prototype hulls, but you do get a ship operation skill that gives you a bonus for every level. Higher levels also unlock the next tier of ships and specialized variants with tradeoffs. We're hoping there will be PRO vehicles, because there's PRO dropsuits. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4239	Posted - 2013.12.19 07:02:00 - [38] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Excuse me. But why is everyone assuming there will be proto vehicles? Where is the source for this information? Yes there is a HAV op skill that goes to level 5. In EVE you do not get prototype hulls, but you do get a ship operation skill that gives you a bonus for every level. Higher levels also unlock the next tier of ships and specialized variants with tradeoffs. Nobody's assuming that. I've made a suggestion that IF and WHEN we get Advanced and/or Proto hulls, the current Standard HAV hulls should have slightly reduced capabilities to allow for the upgraded models to feel better without being horrendously OP, and Spkr is demonstrating his level of intelligence trying to argue that having better tanks than anything that currently exists would somehow be a nerf to tanking. No, we don't have Advanced or Prototype HAVs, and we don't have confirmation that they're coming. We have a hypothetical discussion of how to make them worthwhile and balanced, and we have people who can't process basic English arguing against a proposed "nerf" because of their own failure at basic reading comprehension.
CharCharOdell 1746	Posted - 2013.12.19 07:19:00 - [39] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av LOL Of course you need that crutch back. do you even read? A big bad tanker feels sorry for infantry. But he wants the mlt tanks that pop him to be nerfed in reality. I tank just fine and ignore AV. I hunt in a gunlogi, its op. you didn't even read the OP, obviously. I'm making 400k per round farming mlt tanks. If you think I have any trouble hunting tanks, then you have no idea who I am, then again, I haven't been high profile since Chrome when the only tankers who could beat me were in the same corp as I was...but you wouldn't know what corp that was or who they were, either, I assume. On average, I kill 4-8 tanks/battle and MAYBE lose one to a foolhardy excursion through the red line to chase down a retreating newberry tank. Anyone who thinks they can take me 1 v 1 is welcome to try. Bob is still the only tanker who can match me in a fair duel and its been that way since I hopped into my Sagaris and earned the title "King of QQ"...but you wouldn't know about that either. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5059	Posted - 2013.12.19 07:21:00 - [40] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Words from the Tank God hisself. I shall slay the false Tankers with joy! To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1523	Posted - 2013.12.19 07:34:00 - [41] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Excuse me. But why is everyone assuming there will be proto vehicles? Where is the source for this information? Yes there is a HAV op skill that goes to level 5. In EVE you do not get prototype hulls, but you do get a ship operation skill that gives you a bonus for every level. Higher levels also unlock the next tier of ships and specialized variants with tradeoffs. Nobody's assuming that. I've made a suggestion that IF and WHEN we get Advanced and/or Proto hulls, the current Standard HAV hulls should have slightly reduced capabilities to allow for the upgraded models to feel better without being horrendously OP, and Spkr is demonstrating his level of intelligence trying to argue that having better tanks than anything that currently exists would somehow be a nerf to tanking. No, we don't have Advanced or Prototype HAVs, and we don't have confirmation that they're coming. We have a hypothetical discussion of how to make them worthwhile and balanced, and we have people who can't process basic English arguing against a proposed "nerf" because of their own failure at basic reading comprehension. LOL are you daft? I'm using colloquialisms from other countries. Nowhere did I say that. I said reducing resources is a nerf. I never said that introducing better hulls would nerf STD. What are you on? Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4239	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:06:00 - [42] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL are you daft? I'm using colloquialisms from other countries. Nowhere did I say that. I said reducing resources is a nerf. I never said that introducing better hulls would nerf STD. What are you on? I proposed a VERY SMALL nerf to current tanks IN CONJUNCTION WITH adding a new tier above Standard. You argued against my suggestion of adding a new tier of tanks and said it would be a nerf to tanks. Pretty sure I'm not the daft one here.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 972	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:53:00 - [43] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. The fact that PRO tanks won't be much more powerful is WHY they need toning down. There should be a decent incentive for tankers to upgrade. I don't think it needs much, just a small PG and CPU reduction so you don't see almost full Proto fits on Standard hulls. At the moment, that's reasonable because there ARE no Advanced and Proto hulls, but when there are, things need to be dialed back a little. I dont think there will be PROTO tanks that are just straight upgrades, atleast this was my impression why they did the tank rebalancing in that way. proto tanks will most likely be specialized tanks like black ops or whatever, otherwise the tank rebalance would not make alot of sense imho, why would you then bring MLT tanks up almost on par with STD tanks? what is off is the risk vs balance. the cost for a MLT tank is not in proportion with the effectiveness but instead of nerfing their effectiveness I would just increase the ISK cost and slightly buff the AV weaponry. there is a reason why everyone tries to kill tanks with suicide LAVs and other tanks, the other options are not as effective.
Lorhak Gannarsein 773	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:19:00 - [44] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. The fact that PRO tanks won't be much more powerful is WHY they need toning down. There should be a decent incentive for tankers to upgrade. I don't think it needs much, just a small PG and CPU reduction so you don't see almost full Proto fits on Standard hulls. At the moment, that's reasonable because there ARE no Advanced and Proto hulls, but when there are, things need to be dialed back a little. I dont think there will be PROTO tanks that are just straight upgrades, atleast this was my impression why they did the tank rebalancing in that way. proto tanks will most likely be specialized tanks like black ops or whatever, otherwise the tank rebalance would not make alot of sense imho, why would you then bring MLT tanks up almost on par with STD tanks? what is off is the risk vs balance. the cost for a MLT tank is not in proportion with the effectiveness but instead of nerfing their effectiveness I would just increase the ISK cost and slightly buff the AV weaponry. there is a reason why everyone tries to kill tanks with suicide LAVs and other tanks, the other options are not as effective. I thought the reverse, honestly. It seems like they're bringing tanks into line with infantry (in a tiering sense, at least) which implied tanks that are direct improvements like infantry have. After all, an MLT dropsuit is comparable to an STD drop suit in the same way that an MLT tank is comparable to an STD tank. For sure MLT tanks need something done; I would probably go with a combination of both fitting nerf, hull price increase across the board (so for STD tanks too) and also removing the default turret, or even fittings, from the MLT tanks. Again, just like Dropsuits. EDIT: to clarify my position on potential PRO tanks, the fact that they cut slots down to 3 suggested that to me, considering that apparently CCP hard-coded a total slot count of five into the game, allowing potentially a primary slot increase for each tier up to prototype. >Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
Ferocitan WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 93	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:42:00 - [45] - Quote I doubt it would be a bad thing to be able use a "saga II" with lvl 5 Lav in the future. Nor would it be hard to picture a "Madrugar II" further into the future with 20% more basic resist and a tad more cpu/pg and 1 more slot. Old time Dust players know what the saga II was better version than saga tho just a normal LAV without any skill bonuses like the basic model.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1440	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:44:00 - [46] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Im having similar experiences myself char.. its pretty funny how the mlt tank spam is ended by the presense of a reall tanker lol Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 905	Posted - 2013.12.19 09:52:00 - [47] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Im having similar experiences myself char.. its pretty funny how the mlt tank spam is ended by the presense of a reall tanker lol or a ca rail gun. Watch my back does not mean look at my spine.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1441	Posted - 2013.12.19 10:29:00 - [48] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: pegasis prime wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Im having similar experiences myself char.. its pretty funny how the mlt tank spam is ended by the presense of a reall tanker lol or a ca rail gun. lol *pegasis - Darken look out that's a rail in front of us Darken- yea I got this pegasis- no its looking right at us Darken - its cool I just got to take care of this missile turr......boom ca rail gun -(Darken sol) ca rail gun -(pegasis prime) pegasis - hahahahahahahahhahah Darken - hahahahahahahahaaha Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 633	Posted - 2013.12.19 14:28:00 - [49] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: You are easily popping "crap fits" and you want them nerfed. You belong in new Eden. What a guy I'm easily popping crap fits because I'm a very capable tanker in a very good fit. Proto AV isn't even denting militia tanks piloted by INFANTRYMAN. That is so wrong on so many levels and it is ruining the balance of the battlefield. I QQd for 7 months asking for tank buffs, but this is ridiculous. The day anyone could pilot a tank and do well is the day tanks stopped being cool and just a nuisance. At least in Chrome, you could go 40 and 0 in a tank, but you HAD to have a 2 million isk tank with 8 million SP in one kind of tank and be very very good with it (maybe 20 guys or so in the entire player base fit that description.) Therefore, tank stomps were a rarity...sicas/somas are the new 1.3 charybdis murder taxi...or 1.0 callogi TAR...or 1.6 gallogi duvolle. They're too easy to be good with. I want balance in battle. By that, I mean perfect imbalance. mlt tanks and assault CRs are the only bothersome things now. We are SO close to having a GREAT game but these issues are plaguing it. so buff av wrong answer. AV is good where it is. A proto swarm or forge can 2-3 shot a very well built tank with hardeners off which is what i would call 'working as intended'. It would also make dropships even worse. That solution is what made all vehicles UP in 1.0-1.6 and brought us here in the first place. AV currently requires tactics to kill good tanks, but they SHOULD be able to kill mlt tanks much more easily. Nerfing the PG/CPU and speed on mlt tanks ONLY is a more elegant solution than would stop the mlt tank spam immediately. They cant be as weak as they were in 1.0-1.6, but they need to be somewhere between 1.6 and 1.7 so they aren't running rampant. Honestly, how many games in a row do you see 4-6 WELL FIT tanks-- zero. On the other hand, you see that many 80-100k isk tanks every match because they're too good. Seriously. you are just full of ****. The same way most people here trying to balance stuff. Wyrkomi (Full prof + 3 damage mods)+ lai dai vs mlt tank = mlt tanks win 4 out of 5 itmes lol .... tanks would be fine if it was a madrugar or gunlogi even with a decent fit. Let me remind you that's few million SP best AV vs 50K mlt tank.... So facepalm for every one that says tank vs Av is balanced right now. Lmfao
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 961	Posted - 2013.12.19 14:42:00 - [50] - Quote lol, there is a crazy amount of militia tank spam. It's not just tanks, its militia tanks. Reminds me of the days of infinite free militia tanks when nobody had AV , except now they move as fast a lav :\

NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 634	Posted - 2013.12.19 14:45:00 - [51] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: lol, there is a crazy amount of militia tank spam. It's not just tanks, its militia tanks. Reminds me of the days of infinite free militia tanks when nobody had AV , except now they move as fast a lav :\ Shhh in the name of Balance lol
Cymek Omnius Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2013.12.19 15:04:00 - [52] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Look mom, He put skill points into tanks...
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 864	Posted - 2013.12.19 15:12:00 - [53] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. wait till we have tanks at those tiers before you nerf the current model to make room. otherwise i agree. and I would even go so far as a pg buff in the mean time cause I can't fit small guns anymore. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9163	Posted - 2013.12.19 15:13:00 - [54] - Quote Tanks should be for tankers. This coming from a dropship pilot. Nerf the **** out of militia tanks, or raise the price, or both. HAVs are almost perfect right now. They could probably use a slight increase in the price of there frame from 100k to 250k but that's about it. Swarms need some love now, and the plasma cannon could use some added effectiveness vs vehicles. If it weren't for this militia tank garbage, tank balance would actually almost be achieved right now. Fix militia tanks, fix TANK 514 Vids / O7
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2276	Posted - 2013.12.19 15:17:00 - [55] - Quote The true tankers aren't stomping now, but what happens when the MLT tanks go and they have nothing better to do? Tank 514. That's what. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1987	Posted - 2013.12.19 15:36:00 - [56] - Quote Proto tanks will be the same as the suits tbh Increase in slots and PG/CPU with the same base HP stats most likely As for militia tanks they need dropping a bit, against proper tanks they are still nothing, even a proper tanks vs 2-3 militia can still drop em but if the militia tanks get the drop on you then you maybe dead Point is militia tanks are alot better to use now, for anyone wanting to go into tanks militia is a very good start while they still grind SP, are they too good or is AV too stupid? its both but even then nerfing militia may help but then they could easily just skill into proper tanks and continue to use militia stuff Intelligence is OP
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 314	Posted - 2013.12.19 16:01:00 - [57] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. Yeah, you can really tell the actual tankers from the scrubs running milita. It is your brothers and sisters in arms, the infantry, that are to blame! (and the cheap price of a milia HAV) Nuff Said
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1528	Posted - 2013.12.19 16:25:00 - [58] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Proto tanks will be the same as the suits tbh Increase in slots and PG/CPU with the same base HP stats most likely As for militia tanks they need dropping a bit, against proper tanks they are still nothing, even a proper tanks vs 2-3 militia can still drop em but if the militia tanks get the drop on you then you maybe dead Point is militia tanks are alot better to use now, for anyone wanting to go into tanks militia is a very good start while they still grind SP, are they too good or is AV too stupid? its both but even then nerfing militia may help but then they could easily just skill into proper tanks and continue to use militia stuff We all know AV is too stupid. Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
CharCharOdell 1763	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:37:00 - [59] - Quote Atiim wrote: The true tankers aren't stomping now, but what happens when the MLT tanks go and they have nothing better to do? Tank 514. That's what. All 20 of us can cause tank 514? Assuming all of us were online at peak hours, we would make up <1% of the players online. Then all of us would need to find eachother and make a squad so there would be 3 tank squads...and that'd be it. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 678	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:45:00 - [60] - Quote Massive nerf to millitia tanks Price increase for normal tanks Done

Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 189	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:53:00 - [61] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I agree Militia tanks need PG and CPU nerf, but think a (very) small HP nerf would be more appropriate than a speed nerf. Also, there should be a nerf to the current PG and CPU level on Standard tanks, to make room for Advanced and maybe even Prototype models. Disagree. STD tanks are fine. PRO tanks won't even be that much more powerful. The fact that PRO tanks won't be much more powerful is WHY they need toning down. There should be a decent incentive for tankers to upgrade. I don't think it needs much, just a small PG and CPU reduction so you don't see almost full Proto fits on Standard hulls. At the moment, that's reasonable because there ARE no Advanced and Proto hulls, but when there are, things need to be dialed back a little. disagree. Making PRO tanks way better than STD tanks will create a huge gap between tankers so that PRO tanks will only be countered by PRO tanks and the problem will persist. PRO tanks should be able to beat STD tanks in a straight up 1 v 1 fight, but not by more than 2 seconds tops. if they're as different as PRO and STD dropsuits, they will never die. I'm a tanker with too much SP and it'd be beyond fun for guys like me, but it'd kill the game. I think the simple way to make Proto tanks not be OP while still being better than Std. tanks is to give them much more fitting power, and maybe one additional slot. Right now, you can't exactly fit all proto modules on your tank, at best you can fit maybe 3, but that'll sacrifice something important. Give Proto tanks the power to fit mostly proto modules, and they'll be more powerful than std tanks, but not wildly so. Sorta like the difference between proto and std dropsuits, but that's not really an accurate comparison. Closed Beta Vet since July, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 208	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:54:00 - [62] - Quote I do spend the majority of my match killing ofther tanks, jeeps and maybe the ocasional forge gunner.. tho there was one time i snuck up on 3 eenemy snipers on a ridge and one shotted each with my rail gun and they never moved an inch.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1935	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:58:00 - [63] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. The problem is that a Militia Tank is just as effective in the hands of someone who has no skill points invested in vehicles as it is when operated by a skilled and experienced tanker. (I mean aside from not knowing what they are doing.) The problem is that they removed the +5% bonuses from the Vehicle Shield and Armour skills. The solution (or at least part of it) is to reduce the health of vehicles by 25%, and then add those bonuses back in, so that dedicated tankers are 25% stronger than people with no vehicle skills. Then buff Swarm Launchers enough so they can deal with anyone in a tank who does not have the skills to make it good. Swarm Launchers got over nerfed. Lets start with +25m lock range, putting it at 200m, down from 400 in 1.6; and +30 damage per missal, putting it at 250 damage, down from 330 in 1.6. We can reevaluate the situation after that. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 315	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:27:00 - [64] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: i have yet to see on of the true tankers running 4-man tank squads like people claim. No. I see 4-5 man militia tank squads who stomp infantry with crap fits, but when a real tanker shows up (myself), they somehow all explode in about 5 minutes. Stop blaming 'tankers' for tank spam. It's the non-tankers running crap mlt fits that cost 80k spamming it just like the free lavs of 1.3 I assure you, bring your best tank buddy into a game with you and he'll make all the other 'tankers' wish they just ran infantry. Killing infantry is way too easy for me, so i run tanks to kill these blasphemers who dont deserve to run my favorite toys. Sicas and somas need a huge nerf. Fully upgrade complex/proto tanks SHOULD be as powerful as they are, but these milita toys are the reason there is so much tank spam. Nerf their speed by 18% and their pg/cpu by 30% and you'll see a huge drop in tank spam. And no, im not biased because I am a tanker. I want to see balance. Do that and nerf the assault CR about 5% for DPS and this game will be in great shape. Here is my average game: I call in my tank and other blues call in 3 others. Enemy calls in 4 tanks. 2/3 blue tanks die to AV/jihad jeeps in the first 5 minutes. I kill 4/4 enemy tanks in the first 8 minutes. Enemy calls in 4 more tanks. Those tanks are killed by me again. Enemy calls in lavs...bolases explode and lavs explode before reaching the ground. No more tanks in the field except me. Stopping tank spam in a battle is as easy as having 1 true tanker on your team to help you. Newbes pretending to be tankers and stomping infantry stand no chance against season vets, Honey Badgers, if you will, like myself and a short list of others who we all probably know by now from the forums and in game. The problem is that a Militia Tank is just as effective in the hands of someone who has no skill points invested in vehicles as it is when operated by a skilled and experienced tanker. (I mean aside from not knowing what they are doing.) The problem is that they removed the +5% bonuses from the Vehicle Shield and Armour skills. The solution (or at least part of it) is to reduce the health of vehicles by 25%, and then add those bonuses back in, so that dedicated tankers are 25% stronger than people with no vehicle skills. Then buff Swarm Launchers enough so they can deal with anyone in a tank who does not have the skills to make it good. Swarm Launchers got over nerfed. Lets start with +25m lock range, putting it at 200m, down from 400 in 1.6; and +30 damage per missal, putting it at 250 damage, down from 330 in 1.6. We can reevaluate the situation after that. AHHH, I like. There is a rather disturbing lack of bonuses from skills. Most everything seems to revolve around the modules themselves and not the SP invested. Sp need to give us a little more than extended uptime/ less downtime. Agreed on swarms, they got hit far too hard. Nuff Said
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1937	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:30:00 - [65] - Quote Now that I have skimmed through the whole thread I must ask, why are experienced tankers crying for Militia tank nerfs? It is the Infantry players in tanks that need to be nerfed! Nerf health by 25%, and get it back 5% at a time through the Shield and Amour skills. = 25% nerf for no skill tankers, no nerf for dedicated tankers. Do the same with Power Grid and CPU. The Swarm Launcher was over nerfed. I tested it extensively against tanks that had their cooldowns on cooldown. They need a moderate buff. When the SwL is 11% stronger and the Infantry piloted tanks are 25% weaker, then lets reevaluate. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Mortedeamor Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1022	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:32:00 - [66] - Quote nope 2-3..personally i prefer to run ina squad with 1 operating tanker..but with 2 people maintaining the ability to call a tank if needed...this is the role i fill when i am ina squad witha tank..i dont spamm my mlt tank..i only call it if he needs help. generally i feel vets run they're squads the same...always 1 tank and the potential for more if needed however if i am alone and i dont have a squad or my squad has no tanker..expect my mlt tank spamm all day
CrotchGrab 360 652	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:37:00 - [67] - Quote GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT HEY GUYS IM DESTROYING MILITIA TANKS, NOTICE ME? SMUG SMUG SMUG PLEASE..........?
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 315	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:40:00 - [68] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Now that I have skimmed through the whole thread I must ask, why are experienced tankers crying for Militia tank nerfs? It is the Infantry players in tanks that need to be nerfed! Nerf health by 25%, and get it back 5% at a time through the Shield and Amour skills. = 25% nerf for no skill tankers, no nerf for dedicated tankers. Do the same with Power Grid and CPU. The Swarm Launcher was over nerfed. I tested it extensively against tanks that had their cooldowns on cooldown. They need a moderate buff. When the SwL is 11% stronger and the Infantry piloted tanks are 25% weaker, then lets reevaluate. Milita tank spam is certainly a problem. I do like your approach to it very much. Though I still feel that maybe the modules are far too strong for being milita. Everything seems to be focused on up time and downtime, yet the milita is still very powerful. We do have skills that increase/decrease Uptime and downtime of our modules. I like it but why not give all of the modules a more consistant uptime/downtime, while reducing the effectiveness of the modules. Rather than a milita shield hardener providing 60%, drop it down to 50% or 45% with more uptime/downtime, closer to that of the pro variant. Nuff Said
Akira Regendorf OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 40	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:12:00 - [69] - Quote So this isn't my idea but that of one of the guys that I play with, he is a tanker and he feels that tanks are OP right now for how cheap they are. When we are saying "hey I need to save some ISK I'm gonna call in a tank" then there is probably a problem. His idea is that the current state of tanks is a test run to see what tanks could be like, how powerful they could make them with out making them to ridiculously OP when piloted by some one in a pilot suit. The pilot suit I think is something that allot of people have forgotten about but it is incoming and theoretically would give a significant bonus to the abilities of any vehicle that one pilots with it. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw a bit of a nerf to HAVs when the pilot suit is introduced and that using the pilot suit will bring you back to the point we are at now, maybe even a little more powerful.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1694	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:16:00 - [70] - Quote To OP: That's true, I only kill infantry when there are no enemy tanks to shoot. Going to stay out of AV/V debates, better for my sanity. GÿåTank driverGÿå



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