TLDR
30 seconds+is plenty of time to get killed, you must be hit by MLT swarms

I could either just sit there and gun them down, then leave for a short while and continue assaulting the enemies.

Go away and not even have to turn on any active modules, sneak up on the AV people and kill them with my mods on that time.

If its a lone forgegunner using rocky terrain to make it hard for me to kill him, I just get as close as I can, exit my vehicle and kill him as he wastes shots shooting my temporarily invincible tank and kill him. Some of them realize that they need to kill me first then my vehicle or steal it, but I'm usually in a heavy suit too and able to kill 2 of em before my vehicle is doomed.

When I'm in my caldari assault dropship, I can just hover near forgunners and take as long as I need to kill them, because of my awesome OP fit, and also retreat for less than 20seconds and continue killing the enemies.

[TL;DR version]
What I'm trying to say is that active module cooldowns aren't that long enough, swarms travel too slow and one can get out of range quickly, and dodging forgegun shots is easier than ever; thus making vehicles OP compared to the AV. The only practical form of AV are other tanks, especially railgun tanks.

I am a dropship pilot (Python) but I have tried my hand with some higher end fits using some of the available HAV hulls. As far as face-tanking is concerned, the dropship is not capable of simply standing still and expected to go unscathed and even with the Soma/Sica, it's not reasonable to just sit and soak up repeated Forge Gun rounds without risk. Sure, with my Hardener turned on I can almost certainly soak enough damage to survive one AV user while I still contribute usefully, but if a second AVer comes along, or they turn up the heat in some way I am forced to back off.

So, your solution to AV is to expose your - relatively - squishy dropsuit and engage in a one-on-one? What if the AVer isn't stupid and has decent sidearm gun-game? What if he had friends hiding and jumps you? You can bring friends too (and more sensible than self exposure) but that doesn't mean you'll kill them first.

And even then, you're now relying on identifying the threat, being able to reach the target and survive their attacks before dealing with them.

Stuff about AV and hotfix coming soon...

I was not talking about taking hits from other tanks, just forgegunners.

If you 2 hardeners and a shield booster, you can take a few forgegun hits, and when your shields get low, you can activate the 2nd hardener and talk so little damage, that your shields will regen will kick in and be back to full shields. If your shields are really low or have been taken out, you can just use your booster and retreat with full HP and a hardener still active, then make the module go into cooldown under good cover.

If you have 3 harderners, you can just active the 2nd one when your shield hp is halfway and you'll be invincible for a short while. When your 1st hardener goes out, just use your 3rd and continue invincibility. When your 2nd one goes out, you have your 3rd one going and still have full shields. When your 3rd hardener has 10 seconds remaining, retreat until the 1st and 2nd hardeners come back in less than 30seconds.

I'm in a heavy suit too and have a combat rifle with an advanced SMG. If the sidearm using heavy is too much of a treat for me, or if the he gets backup, I can just go back to my tank. I also usually have squadmates that that aren't too far away to support me in that area too when needed.

I don't know. Maybe I just expect Proto AV, but looking at the Assault Forge Gun (ie, the only worthwhile FG):

Ishukone AFG does 1500 damage. Against a Gunnlogi with 3 Hardeners, you're looking at only 2650 shields which, after hit efficacy and Hardener reduction is still doing 540 damage - a little under 20% damage to that vehicle's primary tank. So even with all High slots filled with Hardeners, you're not looking at a sure thing about surviving. The only thing keeping you going is the 4 second Recharge Delay.

And that's an IAFG without any buff from Proficiency or any damage mods. With Proficiency Five and two Complex Damage Mods it's doing, before efficacy/reduction: 2045.85. With efficacy/reduction that's doing:
736.5 versus Shields
1350.3 versus Armour.

You math is wrong, you should use the Dust Vehicle Fitting Tool to calculate how much resistance you get with 2 shield hardeners active, which is 81% resistance.

Based on calculations done in the Dust Infantry Fitting Tool, a proto assault forgegun with 2 complex hvy dmg mods and proficiency Lv5 will do 2286.81 base damage per shot; against a vehicle with 2 shield hardeners will do 390.91 damage per shot.

I haven't encountered much enemies with that build to know if that much damage will stop my shields from regeneration in that circumstance, but its still easy to escape and continue after a short while with the low cooldown times I get with my hardeners and skill bonuses to active module cooldowns.

Also if someone were to shoot me with proto swarms with complex damage mods and prof Lv5, it wouldn't do enough damage per missile to stop my shields from regenerating.

....Well,... er I'm not exactly sure what a "PROFESSIONAL Dropship Pilot" actually IS (if there was such a thing in real life as a Dropship Pilot, then you'd have some sort of reference to go by). But OK, Agent Overkill... I won't try to pull your leg about that.

Kallas and Agent Overkill, you both have put together a great debate about how to further balance the vehicle module and AV stats in the game, but I'd like to propose this thought to you both:

Agent Overkill, you have used an ADS dropship, and described how easy it is for your fit-out to help you linger in the combat zone much longer than what is intended in CCP's "Waves of Opportunity" concept; hence you believe that CCP's construct for the AV and the vehicle modules should be further tuned to achieve CCP's goal.
I say NO, it doesn't mean that CCP's construct should be improved--and what you did with your DS was NOT easy. You studied the stats using personal initiative to discover an individual fit-out, while many other pilots beg for CCP charity. Your bird is now a unique adaptation, with and strengths on the map that not everyone else in the DS community is going to be able to "clone". ROCK-On!

Kallas, you have used a home-recipe of Hardeners, and orchestrated-timing when activating them, to get around the "Waves of Opportunity" concept; hence you believe that the Hardeners and similar modules should be "weakened" with longer cooldowns in order to better achieve the CCP-intended way modules should be used.
I say NO, it doesn't mean that their intended "Waves" idea should be improved--and you DIDN'T undermine their concept. You used an individually sharp awareness of the module's math, and found you can use it in conjunction with TEMPORAL math, to make a unique strength by "sequencing" the module-use. A substantial chunk of pilots will never be able to keep a picture of that timing in their minds, so their DS will never benefit from that hardener-sequence technique with the same prowess as your DS does. THAT is Cold Beer Time!

Notice in both cases, I don't want to further improve the module construct CCP is creating. I am completely OPPOSED to the "Waves of Opportunity" layout--I don't agree with it at all. (NOOO, CCP, I don't pack this module aboard planning to use it THAT way!). But I'm willing to play ball in their construct, so long as I can still see SOME small room to scheme MY OWN adapted innovation of the modules (even if it's counter to "The CCP Way" to use the modules),...

The reward becomes an individual's vehicle with a UNIQUE value in the game:
(...The corp spokesman says, "I don't know what the hell CELESTA did to get 4913 Armour HP on her DS, but it's the reason we definitely need her on our team--hers is the only ship that can get us all the way to the hack point through all that AV!"...
...And CELESTA says, "That's right, BABY--now let's talk dollars"... )


I'm worried that, if CCP's "Waves" arrangement gets more perfect and bulletproof, any room for the individual achievement I just described and both of you displayed, will be squashed.

I've been a tanker since chromosome and i never thought i would see the day that i would say HAV's are overpowered and AV vice versa, but when myself and driver archedword who are both well known and well feared as tankers and anti-vehicle experts cant take down a soma with proto gear there is a serious problem.

(DRIVER= wyrkomi breach forge gun+2 complex heavy damage mods+wyrkomi packed av grenades, ME='HAYWIRE' wyrkomi swarm launcher+2 light complex damage mods+wyrkomi packed av grenades)(proficeincy 3 respective)

we both hit simultaneously and were hardly able to get through the shields. A militia vehicle should not be able to survive multiple proto av and a standerd should barely be able to escape occasionally with a decent fit. HAV's move far to fast and regen faster then av can deal damage in the first place now. vehicles need to be put back to where they were pre uprising and av needs to be placed only slightly weeker than Pre uprising.

FG=1.6 stats-100dps, av grenades=1.6 stats-100dps, swarm launchers=1.6 stats-range to 150m

Though I admire the ability to think outside the box to "surpass" expectations, you're sounding as if you are one of those that believe that Infantry AV should not be a threat to vehicles unless they get really lucky. Either that or you're on the side that says Infantry AV need to be un-nerfed. With the current team size, one cannot rely on numbers.

Infantry AV is no longer the paper to the vehicular rock, and really hasn't been for a while. But now, even more so, Infantry AV has become the smudge of wood pulp that makes no difference on the surface of the looming vehicular boulder.

What I wouldn't give for my forge to have a five hundred meter range again. LOL

Oh, no Shijima. My post didn't intend to express any opinion about the AV-versus-Vehicle issues. My point was centered on the subject of "modules" and how a player may use them (for their intended purpose or otherwise) to his INDIVIDUAL gameplay style.
Now that you bring up the factor of AV, heck... I hope it can apply in an advantageous way to your AV fit-out too.

I understand the wish (and yes, NEED) to keep a "balance" of technology/weaponry strengths in the matches. If CCP has decided to try the module-use as their tool for balancing, I just don't want them to end up overlooking how the custom-fit-outs and custom stacking of module-use are also the players' tools for creating custom roles, pimping fit-outs, creating new character combat roles, and adapting their vehicles for those roles (something I understand is used in EVE to create entire new professions for players...cool).

Before 1.7 I could pick my vehicle of choice, select from a stack of modules that can support MY style of fighting in the match, and even choose to tweak PG or CPU as may be needed to result in MY OWN slightly personalized module scheme.
....Now that 1.7 is here, I see SOME of that personalized selection restricted...possibly BY ACCIDENT during CCP's pursuit of the "Waves Of Opportunity" strategy to address the (entirely?) separate issue of combat-balancing.

Balance the battlefield, yes. But be careful not to leave players restricted to the same 4 or 5 famous cookie-cutter combat roles that old FPS games consist of.

Vehicle hardeners cooldown to fast and I think that if they were lower, it would be a step in the right direction for making vehicles more balanced.

I've been a tanker since chromosome and i never thought i would see the day that i would say HAV's are overpowered and AV vice versa, but when myself and driver archedword who are both well known and well feared as tankers and anti-vehicle experts cant take down a soma with proto gear there is a serious problem.

(DRIVER= wyrkomi breach forge gun+2 complex heavy damage mods+wyrkomi packed av grenades, ME='HAYWIRE' wyrkomi swarm launcher+2 light complex damage mods+wyrkomi packed av grenades)(proficeincy 3 respective)

we both hit simultaneously and were hardly able to get through the shields. A militia vehicle should not be able to survive multiple proto av and a standerd should barely be able to escape occasionally with a decent fit. HAV's move far to fast and regen faster then av can deal damage in the first place now. vehicles need to be put back to where they were pre uprising and av needs to be placed only slightly weeker than Pre uprising.

FG=1.6 stats-100dps, av grenades=1.6 stats-100dps, swarm launchers=1.6 stats-range to 150m

Though I admire the ability to think outside the box to "surpass" expectations, you're sounding as if you are one of those that believe that Infantry AV should not be a threat to vehicles unless they get really lucky. Either that or you're on the side that says Infantry AV need to be un-nerfed. With the current team size, one cannot rely on numbers.

Infantry AV is no longer the paper to the vehicular rock, and really hasn't been for a while. But now, even more so, Infantry AV has become the smudge of wood pulp that makes no difference on the surface of the looming vehicular boulder.

What I wouldn't give for my forge to have a five hundred meter range again. LOL

As an aspiring AVer, I fully agree that one should not (necessarily) be able to solo mid-to-well equipped tanks and derpships. However, we should ALWAYS be a real threat/distraction to be considered (non-proto fits included) - currently, we are not.

There are already enough handicaps inherent in the (non-proto) AV role: only a side arm for self defence, can only see out of the left like of our face, a looong time to earn a kill, no damage considerations for WP/SP, slow travelling missiles, not-so-smart missile guidance, slooow lock times, (now) nerfed damage, (now) seriously nerfed lock distance, (now) nerfed AV grenades and proxy mines, (always?) proxy mine alerts to pilots (nerf or alert, pick one)... How about a little balance CCP?