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Agent Overkill
Closed For Business
For All Mankind
14
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Posted - 2013.12.17 21:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vehicles have waves of opportunity with active modules that need to cool-down and leave vehicles vulnerable. The problem is that vehicles aren't vulnerable for that long and when their HP drops a little, they can retreat easily out of the reach of AV or move fast enough to avoid being shot.
Here's some scenarios that I and others often face:
When someone brings out a swarm launcher and starts shooting at me
I could either just sit there and gun them down, then leave for a short while and continue assaulting the enemies.
Go away and not even have to turn on any active modules, sneak up on the AV people and kill them with my mods on that time.
If its a lone forgegunner using rocky terrain to make it hard for me to kill him, I just get as close as I can, exit my vehicle and kill him as he wastes shots shooting my temporarily invincible tank and kill him. Some of them realize that they need to kill me first then my vehicle or steal it, but I'm usually in a heavy suit too and able to kill 2 of em before my vehicle is doomed.
When I'm in my caldari assault dropship, I can just hover near forgunners and take as long as I need to kill them, because of my awesome OP fit, and also retreat for less than 20seconds and continue killing the enemies.
What I'm trying to say is that vehicles aren't vulnerable long enough because their cooldowns aren't that long, swarms travel too slow and one can get out of range quickly, and dodging forgegun shots is easier than ever; thus making vehicles OP compared to the AV. The only practical form of AV are other tanks, especially railgun tanks.
Dedicated Vehicle Specialist. :D
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Agent Overkill
Closed For Business
For All Mankind
14
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Posted - 2013.12.17 21:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:TLDR
30 seconds+is plenty of time to get killed, you must be hit by MLT swarms
Nope, I get get hit by forgeguns and ADV/Proto swarms.
If you run a fit that haves you vulnerable for 30 seconds, when you get to the point where you need to retreat from AV, you still can drive away out of swarm range easily or fast enough to not take enough hits from forgeguns to hit kill.
Dedicated Vehicle Specialist. :D
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Agent Overkill
Closed For Business
For All Mankind
14
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Posted - 2013.12.17 22:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I am a dropship pilot (Python) but I have tried my hand with some higher end fits using some of the available HAV hulls. As far as face-tanking is concerned, the dropship is not capable of simply standing still and expected to go unscathed and even with the Soma/Sica, it's not reasonable to just sit and soak up repeated Forge Gun rounds without risk. Sure, with my Hardener turned on I can almost certainly soak enough damage to survive one AV user while I still contribute usefully, but if a second AVer comes along, or they turn up the heat in some way I am forced to back off.
I was not talking about taking hits from other tanks, just forgegunners.
If you 2 hardeners and a shield booster, you can take a few forgegun hits, and when your shields get low, you can activate the 2nd hardener and talk so little damage, that your shields will regen will kick in and be back to full shields. If your shields are really low or have been taken out, you can just use your booster and retreat with full HP and a hardener still active, then make the module go into cooldown under good cover.
If you have 3 harderners, you can just active the 2nd one when your shield hp is halfway and you'll be invincible for a short while. When your 1st hardener goes out, just use your 3rd and continue invincibility. When your 2nd one goes out, you have your 3rd one going and still have full shields. When your 3rd hardener has 10 seconds remaining, retreat until the 1st and 2nd hardeners come back in less than 30seconds.
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
So, your solution to AV is to expose your - relatively - squishy dropsuit and engage in a one-on-one? What if the AVer isn't stupid and has decent sidearm gun-game? What if he had friends hiding and jumps you? You can bring friends too (and more sensible than self exposure) but that doesn't mean you'll kill them first.
And even then, you're now relying on identifying the threat, being able to reach the target and survive their attacks before dealing with them.
I'm in a heavy suit too and have a combat rifle with an advanced SMG. If the sidearm using heavy is too much of a treat for me, or if the he gets backup, I can just go back to my tank. I also usually have squadmates that that far by to support me in that area too when needed.
Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Stuff about AV and hotfix coming soon...
I agree with you.
Dedicated Vehicle Specialist. :D
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Agent Overkill
Closed For Business
For All Mankind
14
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I don't know. Maybe I just expect Proto AV, but looking at the Assault Forge Gun (ie, the only worthwhile FG):
Ishukone AFG does 1500 damage. Against a Gunnlogi with 3 Hardeners, you're looking at only 2650 shields which, after hit efficacy and Hardener reduction is still doing 540 damage - a little under 20% damage to that vehicle's primary tank. So even with all High slots filled with Hardeners, you're not looking at a sure thing about surviving. The only thing keeping you going is the 4 second Recharge Delay.
And that's an IAFG without any buff from Proficiency or any damage mods. With Proficiency Five and two Complex Damage Mods it's doing, before efficacy/reduction: 2045.85. With efficacy/reduction that's doing:
736.5 versus Shields
1350.3 versus Armour.
You math is wrong, you should use the Dust Vehicle Fitting Tool to calculate how much resistance you get with 2 shield hardeners active, which is 81% resistance. Based on calculations done in the Dust Infantry Fitting Tool, a proto assault forgegun with 2 complex hvy dmg mods and proficiency Lv5 will do 2286.81 base damage per shot; against a vehicle with 2 shield hardeners will do 390.91 damage per shot.
I haven't encountered much enemies using doing that much damage to know if that much damage will stop my shields from regeneration in that circumstance, but its still easy to escape and continue after a short while with the low cooldown times I get with my hardeners and skill bonuses to active module cooldowns.
Also if someone were to shoot me with proto swarms with complex damage mods and prof Lv5, it wouldn't do enough damage per missile to stop my shields from regenerating.
Dedicated Vehicle Specialist. :D
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Agent Overkill
Storm Ventures
For All Mankind
18
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Posted - 2013.12.27 03:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vehicle hardeners cooldown to fast and I think that if they were lower, it would be a step in the right direction for making vehicles more balanced.
Dedicated Vehicle Specialist. :D
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