I agree, tanks aren't OP. They're more accessible. No more SP > skill disparity to keep tanking a niche specialty anymore. You can do work with a soma or sica and get enough out of the experience to see if you want to actually invest SP. This pisses off neckbeard tankers and it pisses off AV spoiled by the crippled tanks we saw in early Uprising. Props to Wolfman for angering two communities while making a niche role viable and fun.

If tanks arn't OP then AV is UP. Five AVers can't kill a single tank with no gunnerswhile his actives are up. Don't see the problem? Tanks are too fast to chase down, too deadly to engage directly, and too hard to engage during opportunistic times. The only way the current numbers will work is if AV is made into sidearms or equipment. Which is why I now use RE's on annoying tanks and crash an LAV into them. You asked for this.

I agree, tanks aren't OP. They're more accessible. No more SP > skill disparity to keep tanking a niche specialty anymore. You can do work with a soma or sica and get enough out of the experience to see if you want to actually invest SP. This pisses off neckbeard tankers and it pisses off AV spoiled by the crippled tanks we saw in early Uprising. Props to Wolfman for angering two communities while making a niche role viable and fun.

There's your problem right there. Glowy tank = Bad, not glowy tank = good.

There's your problem right there. Glowy tank = Bad, not glowy tank = good.

Wow cosgar. I used to like you. You cant honestly think tanks arn't broken

There's your problem right there. Glowy tank = Bad, not glowy tank = good.

I actually sympathize with the nechbead tankers because they were the bottom of the food chain to now being mocked as cheap tactics, and 0 mill tankers are just as effective as 10 mill tankers, which I see as disheartening for those players who's investment has just been trivialized.

Never said it was perfect. AV needs to get WP for damaging vehicles again, rendering needs to improve so swarms can have a slightly longer range, proximity mines and REs need their damage to scale up and/or increase amount carried across the tiers, there needs to be more AV that's effective against shields, while tackling and EWAR needs to be a thing for both vehicles vs vehicle and infantry vs vehicle. It's a step in the right direction, but there's more room for improvement.

The point I was trying to make is: there's a difference between overpowered and hard to kill. back in the day when I only had to shoot in the general direction of enemies and watch the war points roll in... that was overpowered

Not to mention the speed thing is a bug....

ROFL. Any half decent tanker = call in tank -> use 50+ seconds of invuln (2x cycled hardeners on a Sica) -> retreat -> call in new HAV -> recall old one -> repeat
Not very hard to do. If you want to be conservative, just retreat with 20 seconds left on the second hardener, and you'll reach a safe zone with ease.
If I, someone with no tank experience, can do this with militia tanks, I can only imagine that it's far easier for real tankers with their increased module duration and additional slot.

They fixed the militia injectors... I still think they need more work. Mainly a longer cool down

Then do it. Nobody said this was supposed to be a F2P CoD. Throw some SP into tanking and have some damn fun with it. There's nothing stopping anyone from specializing in vehicles aside from their own arrogance. That's the beauty of it.

Proxies and RE's are the only things that work so making them better would make me happy. But swarms are currently pointless and it wouldn't make a difference if you could hit from 1000 meters as the damage taken by the tank would annoy the driver at best.

People didn't like the idea of SP > skill for infantry. Why should it be the same for vehicles. The fact that it takes more skill than who has the best fit is worlds better. I just saw two soma pull a pincer on a gunlogi tonight. Probably one of the most epic things I've seen thus far. Infantry combat needs to be this fun.

Proximity mines still have their range scaled to old vehicle speed values, as in beta old. REs actually aren't viable unless you're jihad jeeping. Physically running up and slapping REs on a tank's ass isn't as rewarding as it should be. It takes 3~4 to kill a militia with modules down in most cases and sometimes that's not enough.

Proximity mines still have their range scaled to old vehicle speed values, as in beta old. REs actually aren't viable unless you're jihad jeeping. Physically running up and slapping REs on a tank's ass isn't as rewarding as it should be. It takes 3~4 to kill a militia with modules down in most cases and sometimes that's not enough.

Then I would have to ask why have sp at all if it is reasonable to have a 10 mill tanker be about as good as a 0 mill tanker. Meaning that 10 mill tanker is now behind the 0 sp tanker because he didn't waste his sp into vehicles.

I also would not want this to happen to infantry at all. I just imagine what it would be if scouts were just made easy mode that didn't require any investment and how well that would go over with the scout community, probably not so well. Niche may want buffs but they generally like the idea of it being niche and a little difficult.

I don't think this counts as a rebuttal on my part, more of a fact that we just don't see eye to eye on this issue.

There's still a skill gap, but this time it's a bit more about experience and player skill. A better fit and SP investment is always going to have an advantage, but you can't just sit there and spread sheet them to death. Aside from dropsuit tiers and module imbalance, it's roughly the same for infantry. Good players can get it done with starter gear, a good tanker should be able to do the same with militia.

I'm having tons of fun with it. Dust is still a fun game. It just makes the last 6 months I spent building my anti-infantry character feel, well, a little wasted. I don't think this is good game balance, and I don't see how you can possibly defend it as such.

I do the above and AV can do literally nothing to me as long as I pay attention to module duration and retreat at the appropriate moment. Even with hardeners on, 2+ dedicated AVers (i.e. not AV nades) should be able to make me think twice about charging in, and right now that threat simply isn't there. Driving a blaster Sica vs a ADV swarm launcher and some form of FG, I got hit without a hardener up- but simply activated my mods and charged. I just sat in front of them and slowly DPSed them down while they tried in vain to damage me. That's just not balanced. Hardeners are a win button.

Tanks should be tanky, obviously, but straight-up invulnerability is too much. CCP had the right idea with waves-of-opportunity style tanks, they just pushed the numbers a little too far.

Tankers do not have any passive boosts at all, unlike infantry which gets a ton for every stat, and fitting on vehicles is extremely difficult meaning you are only getting the few modules up anyways. What this translates to is that it is a useless sp sink to go far into vehicles, and that vehicle depth has just became more shallow. Which I think is the wrong direction. In this iteration vehicle effectiveness are like those presets in other vanilla fps games, which is not the defining Dust characteristic. The sp sink is also deceptive because it is a waste when you can do better by just playing with the militia and just work on that.

There is almost no spreadsheet at all with the vehicles as they stand at the moment.

Should infantry have the same spreadsheet disparity then?