If tanks arn't OP then AV is UP. Five AVers can't kill a single tank with no gunnerswhile his actives are up. Don't see the problem? Tanks are too fast to chase down, too deadly to engage directly, and too hard to engage during opportunistic times. The only way the current numbers will work is if AV is made into sidearms or equipment. Which is why I now use RE's on annoying tanks and crash an LAV into them. You asked for this.

Wow cosgar. I used to like you. You cant honestly think tanks arn't broken

I actually sympathize with the nechbead tankers because they were the bottom of the food chain to now being mocked as cheap tactics, and 0 mill tankers are just as effective as 10 mill tankers, which I see as disheartening for those players who's investment has just been trivialized.

ROFL. Any half decent tanker = call in tank -> use 50+ seconds of invuln (2x cycled hardeners on a Sica) -> retreat -> call in new HAV -> recall old one -> repeat
Not very hard to do. If you want to be conservative, just retreat with 20 seconds left on the second hardener, and you'll reach a safe zone with ease.
If I, someone with no tank experience, can do this with militia tanks, I can only imagine that it's far easier for real tankers with their increased module duration and additional slot.

Proxies and RE's are the only things that work so making them better would make me happy. But swarms are currently pointless and it wouldn't make a difference if you could hit from 1000 meters as the damage taken by the tank would annoy the driver at best.

Then I would have to ask why have sp at all if it is reasonable to have a 10 mill tanker be about as good as a 0 mill tanker. Meaning that 10 mill tanker is now behind the 0 sp tanker because he didn't waste his sp into vehicles.

I also would not want this to happen to infantry at all. I just imagine what it would be if scouts were just made easy mode that didn't require any investment and how well that would go over with the scout community, probably not so well. Niche may want buffs but they generally like the idea of it being niche and a little difficult.

I don't think this counts as a rebuttal on my part, more of a fact that we just don't see eye to eye on this issue.

I'm having tons of fun with it. Dust is still a fun game. It just makes the last 6 months I spent building my anti-infantry character feel, well, a little wasted. I don't think this is good game balance, and I don't see how you can possibly defend it as such.

I do the above and AV can do literally nothing to me as long as I pay attention to module duration and retreat at the appropriate moment. Even with hardeners on, 2+ dedicated AVers (i.e. not AV nades) should be able to make me think twice about charging in, and right now that threat simply isn't there. Driving a blaster Sica vs a ADV swarm launcher and some form of FG, I got hit without a hardener up- but simply activated my mods and charged. I just sat in front of them and slowly DPSed them down while they tried in vain to damage me. That's just not balanced. Hardeners are a win button.

Tanks should be tanky, obviously, but straight-up invulnerability is too much. CCP had the right idea with waves-of-opportunity style tanks, they just pushed the numbers a little too far.

Tankers do not have any passive boosts at all, unlike infantry which gets a ton for every stat, and fitting on vehicles is extremely difficult meaning you are only getting the few modules up anyways. What this translates to is that it is a useless sp sink to go far into vehicles, and that vehicle depth has just became more shallow. Which I think is the wrong direction. In this iteration vehicle effectiveness are like those presets in other vanilla fps games, which is not the defining Dust characteristic. The sp sink is also deceptive because it is a waste when you can do better by just playing with the militia and just work on that.

There is almost no spreadsheet at all with the vehicles as they stand at the moment.

I apologize I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, if you can clarify that would be great, otherwise here hopefully this hits your question right.

Infantry are more spreedsheet based than vehicles, with vehicles being as close to no spreadsheets / no sp as possible in dust.

I do not want infantry to go the direction of the vehicles I would rather have vehicles go back towards the direction of infantry where there is some purpose to long term investment sp wise and not just personal experience.

Hopefully I answered your question there.

I think my last response answers that then, tanks are less spreadsheet than infantry as it stands, if you consider infantry "good", then tanks need to at least have the same spreadsheet potential as infantry, which has a skill to passively boost every stat.

I agree a tank is not OP.... but maybe 10 are?

that's how matches go now with anywhere from 5 or more tanks on each team on the field....

the real problem is that tank spam just makes dust boring, and even more stupid.

Unlike the logi who can actually use a ton of modules to do what they want, the more deprived classes are on the other hand much more dependent on passives.

You are going to have to pardon me on this one but I find it a little suspicious to keep the cpu/pg increases when that is the logi's extreme stat, while the extreme stats of the other suits are to be dropped. I'm sure the heavy would like the ehp buffing skills (which they now lose 200+ ehp) because ehp is their extreme stat, precision and profile for scouts, and I'm pretty sure the more deprived cpu/pg classes would benefit more from dropping the cpu/pg skill because it would impact medium frames to a greater degree who have no issues with taking roles as it is.

That is not even getting into the fact that racials are currently passive and if they were to be replaced with bonuses to mods then any suit with a low module count gets screwed out of less utility from their racial.

A module only view is a very logi centric view because that is what logis operate on. So if that is the direction you want, classes are going to need an entire overhaul, changing all the stats again, and with logis losing their slot advantage because that would impede balance in a module only system.