DUST Search - at least give the losing faction some standing points

Obodiah Garro wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

We wanted this. A venue where Winning matters. that isn't PC. now that you have it ... it's not fair enough for you? CCP gives you all the tools in a sandbox to build a FW team... to organize whatever you see fit.

We have normal public matches where little difference happens when you loose... don't do that to this.

I'll never understand why everyone want's to be rewarded for just participating... with no drive to improve them self's or their surroundings... just sit down and be rewarded.. its sick.

tbh this whole statement is a load of pish taken in the context that 1, you guys run gal fw and synch and 2, there isnt an equal player response on the caldari side.

**** even my corp run gal (damn frogs) but for us plebs that do caldari to either 1, have a solid challenge or 2, RP for the sake of the game, there is simply nothing at this stage that makes FW anything other than a massive isk sink.

**** is too 1 sided atm, and there is no reason you shouldnt get standing increases based of wp instead of either a W or L anyway.

Least it stops the moaning and makes it an even keel regardless of who gets stomped.

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Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1356	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:43:00 - [31] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: bolsh lee wrote: If any I think it should be based off of WP or KD because only giving standings for winning gives incentive to WIN So if its just default 10 standing or something small people will afk and farm the +10 standing.... then make it based off of WP. Something like 0.1 standing per WP, max of 20 per match. So a 2000+ WP match adds 20 bonus standing. 500 WP gives 5 standing. 0 WP gives 0 standing. Would only agree to this if it was active WP, meaning that the 5WP/s passive in-match charity WP were not included. Then at least the losers would be recognized for having made a real effort to support their team. And the payout should be small, so that if you bust your ass all match for the faction you get maybe 10 standings points being on the losing side. I support SP rollover.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 338	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:07:00 - [32] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Would only agree to this if it was active WP, meaning that the 5WP/s passive in-match charity WP were not included. Then at least the losers would be recognized for having made a real effort to support their team. And the payout should be small, so that if you bust your ass all match for the faction you get maybe 10 standings points being on the losing side. I think you're confusing WP with SP. You only get WP for in-game actions (kills, team spawns, hacks, etc.) SP is earned both passively and as a result of match performance. So in the original suggestion, you'd at least receive recognition for your effort by earning standing for performing well (i.e. racking up WPs.) Life is killing me.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 954	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:14:00 - [33] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: My concern would be if you give a standing gain you then have both LP and Standing gains you would be giving to potential AFK awoxers and/or farmers. Why on the surface standings for loosing may seem good they can get exploited in a hurry. We have the issue where it it looks like we are going to lose I have zero incentive to try. Why push if it's pretty certain it will end in a loss? All that does is get me the same reward but costs more ISK. IF we lose and i used 5 suits i get the same reward if we lose and I use 15 suits. In public matches even if loseing if i try and do well i get more ISK. Not so in FW. Effort does not equal reward. Strategic retreat is the best approach. This is not good for fun or balance among factions. There is no reward for effort. The logical decision is to give up on a weak looking team. This will lead to the possible death of certain factions. Why waste isk for so little? I may as well fight for another faction. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1356	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:38:00 - [34] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Would only agree to this if it was active WP, meaning that the 5WP/s passive in-match charity WP were not included. Then at least the losers would be recognized for having made a real effort to support their team. And the payout should be small, so that if you bust your ass all match for the faction you get maybe 10 standings points being on the losing side. I think you're confusing WP with SP. You only get WP for in-game actions (kills, team spawns, hacks, etc.) SP is earned both passively and as a result of match performance. So in the original suggestion, you'd at least receive recognition for your effort by earning standing for performing well (i.e. racking up WPs.) Right you are. Edited my op. I support SP rollover.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1480	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:30:00 - [35] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Caldari is hard My tank crew keeps the enemy tanks at bay and gets rid of plently of them but frankly the infantry just cant seem to do anything Well that and it doesnt help when you are the only squad in the game and everyone else is unsquadded It was worse before 1.7 when we were also on the top of the boards as infantry. Tankers leading the way. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Silas Swakhammer GamersForChrist Orion Empire 284	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:35:00 - [36] - Quote Foley Jones wrote: MY SP BRINGS ALL THE MERCS TO THE CHANNEL AND THEY ARE LIKE "Do you wanna squad up?" DAMN RIGHT I WANNA SQUAD UP I love you. Also, as a Minmatar interested in the other 'underdog' of EVE, I haven't been able to gain standings with the State yet. =( Pineapples on pizza.
Joel II X Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 332	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:36:00 - [37] - Quote Agreed.
Oswald Rehnquist 881	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:42:00 - [38] - Quote I am caldari as well, but I do like that winning matters, that is literally what is saving FW, people try hard (which is why people feel so tired), so I am hesitant to just give standing for loses due to afkers, perhaps as someone mentioned only for those who break 1000? Joining a squad or two generally overcomes the losing aspect. Below 28 dB
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 74	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:46:00 - [39] - Quote Agreed
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 669	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:48:00 - [40] - Quote This is one of the things I suggested in a feedback thread. My concept is that the faction will still "pay" you (in standings) for a "good loss." I'm all for incentives to win but the current system, but like Rhadamanthus said, when you see you are on a losing team there is zero incentive to try because you get nothing for your efforts. I suggested that the top 1-3 people on the board and/or everyone who gets more than a certain number of WP should still be awarded at least a small amount of standings for their trouble. Even if it's only 10-20% of what you get for a win! there's at least a reason to give your best effort. The way it is now only frustrates and crushes the morale of the Caldari and Amarr sides making us less interested in playing because we have no real control over outer own fates. I mean, I've played 10-15 battles for the Amarr so far, averaging 1500 WP, topped the board (overall - both teams) in WP for fully 1/2 of them, and yet I have not advanced a single level yet. Disheartening. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!

Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2461	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:52:00 - [41] - Quote I agree. No, I am not CCP Logibro.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 416	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:15:00 - [42] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Get good? Says the guy I killed 5 times straight. Seriously, I fight for Caldari, too. What is the deal that I don't gain standings with Caldari unless I win? I mean, I came in THIRD OVERALL and first on my team and we lost and... nothing? Really? Names of playstyles
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1993	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:16:00 - [43] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Get good? Please Don't DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 417	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:25:00 - [44] - Quote Atiim wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Get good? Please Don't I'm serious, Atiim. I saw you liked my post and I think it was about the killing 5 times? If so, here's the deal: I'm using my Rail Rifle and watching a door that's about 53 m. I have my scanner out and I scan, and see someone out the door so I wait. He enters and I fire. Dead. I did that 5 TIMES. Names of playstyles
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1999	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:29:00 - [45] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Atiim wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Get good? Please Don't I'm serious, Atiim. I saw you liked my post and I think it was about the killing 5 times? If so, here's the deal: I'm using my Rail Rifle and watching a door that's about 53 m. I have my scanner out and I scan, and see someone out the door so I wait. He enters and I fire. Dead. I did that 5 TIMES. XD And he tried to tell someone to get good? If you die 5 times to the exact same tactic in a row then you truly need to "Get Good". DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 418	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:32:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Atiim wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Get good? Please Don't I'm serious, Atiim. I saw you liked my post and I think it was about the killing 5 times? If so, here's the deal: I'm using my Rail Rifle and watching a door that's about 53 m. I have my scanner out and I scan, and see someone out the door so I wait. He enters and I fire. Dead. I did that 5 TIMES. XD And he tried to tell someone to get good? If you die 5 times to the exact same tactic in a row then you truly need to "Get Good". Indeed. It was glorious. I even killed three of his allies with that tactic. Anyways, I was using STD Rail Rifle, one Adv damage mod and Prof 4. But I still shouldn't kill someone 5 times in a row. Names of playstyles
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1999	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:33:00 - [47] - Quote Both Lore wise and Realisicly I don't see how this works out. Even if you lose the match, why wouldn't you get a higher standing and reputation by simply fighting for them? Reputable military leaders didn't gain their reputations by wining every single battle they've fought (though a few have); so I don't get CCP's logic with the whole "You must win to gain a higher standing/reputation" ideal. But Logic and CCP should not be used in the same sentence. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 418	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:35:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: Both Lore wise and Realisicly I don't see how this works out. Even if you lose the match, why wouldn't you get a higher standing and reputation by simply fighting for them? Reputable military leaders didn't gain their reputations by wining every single battle they've fought (though a few have); so I don't get CCP's logic with the whole "You must win to gain a higher standing/reputation" ideal. But Logic and CCP should not be used in the same sentence. The only 2 leaders that I can think of that won every fight are Alexander the Great and Napoleon Bonaparte. Even Julius Caeser lost several battles. Names of playstyles
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 451	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:37:00 - [49] - Quote Signed Right now its a show of mastery to get a win with caldari, everybody has blue balled up and are farming gal lp since its so easy atm, need to get some incentive to make FW somewhat worth playing instead of havin to run bpo suits cause its a terrible waste of isk to do otherwise on the caldari side.
Shooty Dangerman One Bad Dude 1	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:40:00 - [50] - Quote I think 5 standing points for 500 WP is the best idea. It could apply to winners and losers with a cap at 20 or 25. When you know your team is gonna lose the match there is really no incentive to keep playing, but a change like this would keep me fighting at least.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 467	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:40:00 - [51] - Quote We wanted this. A venue where *Winning matters.* that isn't PC. now that you have it ... it's not fair enough for you? CCP gives you all the tools in a sandbox to build a FW team... to organize whatever you see fit. We have normal public matches where little difference happens when you loose... don't do that to this. I'll never understand why everyone want's to be rewarded for just participating... with no drive to improve them self's or their surroundings... just sit down and be rewarded.. its sick.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 419	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:41:00 - [52] - Quote I win in Caldari more than I lose, that makes me a master, as Obodiah said. But on the ones that I lose, it's a complete and utter waste of my time. Names of playstyles
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 673	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:44:00 - [53] - Quote Napoleon? Waterloo is synonymous with a military debacle. George Washington famously lost more battles than he won (debatable but he had barely over a .500 at best) as well. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 993	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:44:00 - [54] - Quote I agree, but it needs limitations to prevent AFK farming.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 419	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:46:00 - [55] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Napoleon? Waterloo is synonymous with a military debacle. George Washington famously lost more battles than he won (debatable but he had barely over a .500 at best) as well. Up until Waterloo, Napoleon was undefeated. One of the greatest military leaders in history. Obviously, I was referring to BEFORE that one battle. Besides, ALL military leaders lost ONE fight, Alexander the Great lost in India, that's why his Empire stopped in the Middle East. Names of playstyles
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 455	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:47:00 - [56] - Quote Bethhy wrote: We wanted this. A venue where *Winning matters.* that isn't PC. now that you have it ... it's not fair enough for you? CCP gives you all the tools in a sandbox to build a FW team... to organize whatever you see fit. We have normal public matches where little difference happens when you loose... don't do that to this. I'll never understand why everyone want's to be rewarded for just participating... with no drive to improve them self's or their surroundings... just sit down and be rewarded.. its sick. tbh this whole statement is a load of pish taken in the context that 1, you guys run gal fw and synch and 2, there isnt an equal player response on the caldari side. ** even my corp run gal (damn frogs) but for us plebs that do caldari to either 1, have a solid challenge or 2, RP for the sake of the game, there is simply nothing at this stage that makes FW anything other than a massive isk sink. ** is too 1 sided atm, and there is no reason you shouldnt get standing increases based of wp instead of either a W or L anyway. Least it stops the moaning and makes it an even keel regardless of who gets stomped.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 419	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:52:00 - [57] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Bethhy wrote: We wanted this. A venue where *Winning matters.* that isn't PC. now that you have it ... it's not fair enough for you? CCP gives you all the tools in a sandbox to build a FW team... to organize whatever you see fit. We have normal public matches where little difference happens when you loose... don't do that to this. I'll never understand why everyone want's to be rewarded for just participating... with no drive to improve them self's or their surroundings... just sit down and be rewarded.. its sick. tbh this whole statement is a load of pish taken in the context that 1, you guys run gal fw and synch and 2, there isnt an equal player response on the caldari side. ** even my corp run gal (damn frogs) but for us plebs that do caldari to either 1, have a solid challenge or 2, RP for the sake of the game, there is simply nothing at this stage that makes FW anything other than a massive isk sink. ** is too 1 sided atm, and there is no reason you shouldnt get standing increases based of wp instead of either a W or L anyway. Least it stops the moaning and makes it an even keel regardless of who gets stomped. This. I have noticed Bethhy on the Gallente side fairly often, usually on the other side of my ACOG. If it wasn't for her teammates, she'd have been killed many a time. Needless to say, I think we need to get less for losing, but still get some. Names of playstyles
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 674	Posted - 2013.12.14 20:06:00 - [58] - Quote Bethhy wrote: We wanted this. A venue where *Winning matters.* that isn't PC. now that you have it ... it's not fair enough for you? CCP gives you all the tools in a sandbox to build a FW team... to organize whatever you see fit. We have normal public matches where little difference happens when you loose... don't do that to this. I'll never understand why everyone want's to be rewarded for just participating... with no drive to improve them self's or their surroundings... just sit down and be rewarded.. its sick. Easy for a Gallente player to say. Besides, nobody is asking for it to be like pubs where the reward is essentially the same win or lose. Those of us who are fighting for Caldari/Amarr are sick of banging into a wall of awoxers every match and just want some token reward for our efforts. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 132	Posted - 2013.12.14 20:07:00 - [59] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Foley Jones wrote: I fight for the caldari - im not going to ***** and moan about the fact we suck so dont worry What I will moan about though is the fact that it is insanely hard to get my caldari standing up becuase we lose so much So I purpose that the losing team still receives some standing points for effort and trying I went in there, killed some feds, I tryed as hard as I can to win but factions won't like you anymore unless you win? Show some mercy CCP - Give the losing tea like 10-30 points for trying you already give a small amount of LP for losing, at least let us try and get our standings up a level so we can earn more My concern would be if you give a standing gain you then have both LP and Standing gains you would be giving to potential AFK awoxers and/or farmers. Why on the surface standings for loosing may seem good they can get exploited in a hurry. Are you kidding? You can already do this extensively as long as you choose the FotM minmatar/gallente. Join minne/gall match, AFK, +standings like crazy.
Cpt Merdock The Exemplars Top Men. 159	Posted - 2013.12.14 21:55:00 - [60] - Quote How are those flavour of the month? Hmm? Please explain how what side we choose is flavour of the month. It doesnt matter, you dont get bonuses for choosing a specific side, you just get access to the limited gear in the loyalty point store. Minmatar has never been flavour of the month for anything, we finally get an item that can match with the Armour tanking, damage mod stacking amarr and caldari players and you all get more pissy than ever. Go get some team players and come back before whining on the forums, CCP cant help that you guys cant work together.



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