DUST Search - Need better numbers for a Loyalty Point tool

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

Commander Tzu wrote:

Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:

Gorra Snell wrote:

Absolute Idiom II wrote:

651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store...

Yeah, that's like 4 PRO suits...which is, what, 240k isk on the 'regular' market? That's not a terrible ISK payout equivalent, but it's certainly not in 'highly rewarding' territory, which is what I'd expect from hundreds of hours spent gaining faction standing.

EDIT: And, longterm, I assume the expectation is that you'll lose and win roughly the same amount, so this puts the max average payout closer to the the 130k-150k isk payout equivalent for match. There's not much incentive to play FW for the long haul with that sort of outcome.

Considering the masses of LP Eve players can get something about 600 is really not much. Especially because we don't get LP that fast. Eve players can PLEX, shoot enemy militias, do missions and orbitals (had a pilot who got 92k LP in one Dust match). So I guess getting something about 1500 - 3000 LP for every match at standing 10 would be better. We still need ISK for FW gear anyways.

Difference is, on EVE LP store items can actually cost thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of LP.

If you reach the highest standings and upgrade the system in Eve it's possible to generate enough LP to profit 300 million ISK/hr - 1.8 billion ISK/ hr (although this is considered unattainable).

Gaming the system

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4109	Posted - 2013.12.12 21:25:00 - [1] - Quote Hey FoxFour, can we get actual numbers for loyalty point payouts with regards to standings instead of guestimating with this horrid graph? Would like to make some tools but don't have the numbers. Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 14254	Posted - 2013.12.13 10:49:00 - [2] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey FoxFour, can we get actual numbers for loyalty point payouts with regards to standings instead of guestimating with this horrid graph? Would like to make some tools but don't have the numbers. And that graph is horribly out of date... >.< I changed the numbers like 3 days before release :( Will try and get updated numbers out and in a table format as well instead of just graph. :) CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

pagl1u M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 168	Posted - 2013.12.13 12:30:00 - [3] - Quote So We aren't going to earn 50 thousands of LP I guess :)
steadyhand amarr Scions of Athra 2097	Posted - 2013.12.13 13:03:00 - [4] - Quote Aaaawwww "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 14254	Posted - 2013.12.13 13:15:00 - [5] - Quote Nah, max is like 651 or something :P CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Absolute Idiom II SyNergy Gaming EoN. 920	Posted - 2013.12.13 13:38:00 - [6] - Quote 651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store... Fanfest 2012 - Winning Team + MVP - £1100 in prizes Fanfest 2013 - Winning Team - £500 in prizes Fanfest 2014 - ???
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 319	Posted - 2013.12.13 13:50:00 - [7] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: 651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store... Yeah, that's like 4 PRO suits...which is, what, 240k isk on the 'regular' market? That's not a terrible ISK payout equivalent, but it's certainly not in 'highly rewarding' territory, which is what I'd expect from hundreds of hours spent gaining faction standing. EDIT: And, longterm, I assume the expectation is that you'll lose and win roughly the same amount, so this puts the max average payout closer to the the 130k-150k isk payout equivalent for match. There's not much incentive to play FW for the long haul with that sort of outcome. RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1269	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:20:00 - [8] - Quote Gorra Snell wrote: Absolute Idiom II wrote: 651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store... Yeah, that's like 4 PRO suits...which is, what, 240k isk on the 'regular' market? That's not a terrible ISK payout equivalent, but it's certainly not in 'highly rewarding' territory, which is what I'd expect from hundreds of hours spent gaining faction standing. EDIT: And, longterm, I assume the expectation is that you'll lose and win roughly the same amount, so this puts the max average payout closer to the the 130k-150k isk payout equivalent for match. There's not much incentive to play FW for the long haul with that sort of outcome. Considering the masses of LP Eve players can get something about 600 is really not much. Especially because we don't get LP that fast. Eve players can PLEX, shoot enemy militias, do missions and orbitals (had a pilot who got 92k LP in one Dust match). So I guess getting something about 1500 - 3000 LP for every match at standing 10 would be better. We still need ISK for FW gear anyways.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2387	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:26:00 - [9] - Quote If it caps at 651 then I'll just stop playing FW altogether. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
4447 Resolution XIII 945	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:43:00 - [10] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Nah, max is like 651 or something :P You better take that graph down then. Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.

Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 528	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote Really So an extra 300 LP is the difference between Lv 1 and Lv 10 ?????
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 77	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:49:00 - [12] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Gorra Snell wrote: Absolute Idiom II wrote: 651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store... Yeah, that's like 4 PRO suits...which is, what, 240k isk on the 'regular' market? That's not a terrible ISK payout equivalent, but it's certainly not in 'highly rewarding' territory, which is what I'd expect from hundreds of hours spent gaining faction standing. EDIT: And, longterm, I assume the expectation is that you'll lose and win roughly the same amount, so this puts the max average payout closer to the the 130k-150k isk payout equivalent for match. There's not much incentive to play FW for the long haul with that sort of outcome. Considering the masses of LP Eve players can get something about 600 is really not much. Especially because we don't get LP that fast. Eve players can PLEX, shoot enemy militias, do missions and orbitals (had a pilot who got 92k LP in one Dust match). So I guess getting something about 1500 - 3000 LP for every match at standing 10 would be better. We still need ISK for FW gear anyways. Difference is, on EVE LP store items can actually cost thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of LP.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2387	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:49:00 - [13] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey FoxFour, can we get actual numbers for loyalty point payouts with regards to standings instead of guestimating with this horrid graph? Would like to make some tools but don't have the numbers. And that graph is horribly out of date... >.< I changed the numbers like 3 days before release :( Will try and get updated numbers out and in a table format as well instead of just graph. :) Who the hell liked this post? His mom? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2387	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:54:00 - [14] - Quote Commander Tzu wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Gorra Snell wrote: Absolute Idiom II wrote: 651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store... Yeah, that's like 4 PRO suits...which is, what, 240k isk on the 'regular' market? That's not a terrible ISK payout equivalent, but it's certainly not in 'highly rewarding' territory, which is what I'd expect from hundreds of hours spent gaining faction standing. EDIT: And, longterm, I assume the expectation is that you'll lose and win roughly the same amount, so this puts the max average payout closer to the the 130k-150k isk payout equivalent for match. There's not much incentive to play FW for the long haul with that sort of outcome. Considering the masses of LP Eve players can get something about 600 is really not much. Especially because we don't get LP that fast. Eve players can PLEX, shoot enemy militias, do missions and orbitals (had a pilot who got 92k LP in one Dust match). So I guess getting something about 1500 - 3000 LP for every match at standing 10 would be better. We still need ISK for FW gear anyways. Difference is, on EVE LP store items can actually cost thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of LP. If you reach the highest standings and upgrade the system in Eve it's possible to generate enough LP to profit 300 million ISK/hr - 1.8 billion ISK/ hr (although this is considered unattainable). Gaming the system Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
4447 Resolution XIII 945	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:55:00 - [15] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey FoxFour, can we get actual numbers for loyalty point payouts with regards to standings instead of guestimating with this horrid graph? Would like to make some tools but don't have the numbers. And that graph is horribly out of date... >.< I changed the numbers like 3 days before release :( Will try and get updated numbers out and in a table format as well instead of just graph. :) There's no gains to gain with FW. Troll, For lifeGÇª But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
Acturus Galaxy Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 300	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:57:00 - [16] - Quote That is a let down, I am going back to starter/cheap builds in the FW matches, it is definitely not worth spending my hard earned isk and aur stuff for that little increase in LP payout. I allready get 432 LP per Victory. I still enjoy FW and will keep playing this gamemode but will no longer be ready to spend a mill isk to turn the match in my teams favor.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1906	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:23:00 - [17] - Quote 651 w/o booster?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2387	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:41:00 - [18] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: 651 w/o booster? Does it matter? Add or subtract 25% and it still sucks Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
pseudosnipre 395	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:45:00 - [19] - Quote Why advertise a dev blog if you have to dig through forums for accurate data? Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 77	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:10:00 - [20] - Quote 651 doesn't feel like it makes the grind worth it =[

Absolute Idiom II SyNergy Gaming EoN. 920	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:27:00 - [21] - Quote The irony is: the higher the LP payout of FW, the larger the isk sink to counter the isk faucet of PC Fanfest 2012 - Winning Team + MVP - £1100 in prizes Fanfest 2013 - Winning Team - £500 in prizes Fanfest 2014 - ???

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 14254	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:28:00 - [22] - Quote Dev blog updated with this image: CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Absolute Idiom II SyNergy Gaming EoN. 920	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:32:00 - [23] - Quote Wow. What was the rationale in adjusting the LP payouts to be so low, when you initially had the payouts much higher? Fanfest 2012 - Winning Team + MVP - £1100 in prizes Fanfest 2013 - Winning Team - £500 in prizes Fanfest 2014 - ???
steadyhand amarr Scions of Athra 2097	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:32:00 - [24] - Quote Cuz ccp has bo concepte of data or version control apprently :-( "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Acturus Galaxy Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 300	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:53:00 - [25] - Quote I appreicate you managed to get the FW code ready in 1.7 as I very much enjoy the matches now that FF is on and that there is very little payout if your team looses. However, the adjusted LP is really low, or the equipment in the loaylity store is too cheap. There is no need to get to level 10 considered the amount of isk needed to get to this level. I can buy specialized proto equipment even with standing level 0 and a single victory. Before there was a real incentive to spend lots of isk and aur to win the matches and gain standing levels, it made the matches very intense. Now it is not that much different from pub matches. My new FW suit only cost me 2k isk, earlier today I had matches where I lost more than 1 mill isk to get a Victory and increase in standing.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 912	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:59:00 - [26] - Quote 35,000 down to 659. Level 10 needs how many hundreds of winning games to get to? And that's if you don't lose any standings by playing for the wrong faction or accidentally doing too much damage/team killing. Every level should have their payout increased by at least 50%, which puts level 10 at roughly 1,000 LP per winning match. "The unexamined life is not worth living." RNDclan.com
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2387	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:08:00 - [27] - Quote This is the kind of stuff that really makes me shake my head. This is clueless stuff here. Do you not see that now people can flip flop between factions because the standing mean very little? That's only the base of it. I could talk for hours about how far off base you guys are on this need for an ISK sink. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2387	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:11:00 - [28] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: The irony is: the higher the LP payout of FW, the larger the isk sink to counter the isk faucet of PC Three types of players have a lot of ISK 1) the top 1% who are successful in PC 2) AFK grinders 3) BPO and Cheap suit grinders The people who run 2.0 KDRs and use ADV and Proto gear have to eat Romen noodles 3x a day. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 77	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:11:00 - [29] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Gorra Snell wrote: Absolute Idiom II wrote: 651 doesn't get you much equipment from the LP store... Yeah, that's like 4 PRO suits...which is, what, 240k isk on the 'regular' market? That's not a terrible ISK payout equivalent, but it's certainly not in 'highly rewarding' territory, which is what I'd expect from hundreds of hours spent gaining faction standing. EDIT: And, longterm, I assume the expectation is that you'll lose and win roughly the same amount, so this puts the max average payout closer to the the 130k-150k isk payout equivalent for match. There's not much incentive to play FW for the long haul with that sort of outcome. Considering the masses of LP Eve players can get something about 600 is really not much. Especially because we don't get LP that fast. Eve players can PLEX, shoot enemy militias, do missions and orbitals (had a pilot who got 92k LP in one Dust match). So I guess getting something about 1500 - 3000 LP for every match at standing 10 would be better. We still need ISK for FW gear anyways. Difference is, on EVE LP store items can actually cost thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands of LP. If you reach the highest standings and upgrade the system in Eve it's possible to generate enough LP to profit 300 million ISK/hr - 1.8 billion ISK/ hr (although this is considered unattainable). Gaming the system Yea we need player market and some PVE, maybe if you control a planet it opens FW contracts to clear it of npc enemies and get tons of salvage or something.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1644	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:14:00 - [30] - Quote WOW. Well, back to pub matches then. FW was stuipid anyways. Only reason I played it was possibly to make my suit much cheaper... But if it's capped out at 659, then I have to play 200 matches just to get one suit at a much cheaper cost. Or I can play one public match and get isk enough for 3. Good job. I had a lot of fun in FW today because everyone was fighting to win. These batttles were intense and some of the best I've ever played (even have recordings of some of them). But what's the point in fighting for the win when the win doesn't mean anything? I was fighting for standings, and the chance of getting more points per battle. Now it obviously doesn't matter. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!



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