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Artificer Ghost wrote:

I'm not AWOXing decent advice, because this isn't really decent advice. This is pushing players into a single class, and telling them that stacking Complex Damage Mods is the only viable option. New Eden is about freedom of choice, and if you tell the newbies (who WILL take you for your word, by the way), that the only good way to play is with tons of damage mods, it's going to make the game hell for them. Especially when, at that low of a level, they should be leveling Core Skills, and getting better equipment to fill the role that they chose.

While stacking loads of Damage Mods is an option, it's not the only option. And if you're going to suggest it, at least tell them that there are other roles they can play.

My proto-logi consists of 5 Armor Plates (4 complex, 1 Enhanced), and 3 Enhanced Damage Mods, with an Advanced Combat Rifle. When people ask me if they should go down the G-Logi path, so they can have my level of power and tank, I always tell them "It's a legitimate path, and a good one to choose, but there are other classes out there you might like better".

Not to mention that normally, if you start off with the hardest setup, you come out on top almost all the time. Example, one of the teachers at the Learning Coalition is the all-star of Scouts. #2 on the Scout Killboard, in fact. He went 60/3 with a Minmatar Scout and a K5 Shotgun. Now, imagine, if Scouts were actually GOOD in the hands of an average player, then how good would my friend be? He started with the hardest class to play, got good at it, adapted to the condition of said class, and then when it gets a good buff, he'll probably be one of the more feared players in this game.

TL;DR, Going easy-mode isn't always the best thing to do.

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TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1719	Posted - 2013.12.12 16:11:00 - [1] - Quote Equip 3 complex damage mods and I promise you that you will wreck most people with little to no effort. This is the key to dominating , it really is that simple I promise you and get yourself some core locus grenades, these are your icing on the cake. And there you have it, the people you may think are god like are just running this setup, its very easy and minimal effort. I don't even need to say I hope this helps, I know it will but just remember, complex damage mods, anything less isn't worth giving up the hp. o7 rookies Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 679	Posted - 2013.12.13 00:07:00 - [2] - Quote Uh... No. While I DO run damage mods on my G-Logi, because I'm not a Shield Tanker, I know it isn't the only thing that works. I run Stealth/E-War Scout, I know a Speed-Tanking Heavy, I've seen proper shield-tankers, with Extenders, Regulators, Rechargers, etc. Damage Mods don't win all fights, skill does. This is obviously a rage thread, so I urge newberries to NOT listen to it. I've killed plenty of proto-stompers with only a pair of STD Nova Knives and a Combat Rifle. I don't stack damage mods, I stack Shield Extenders. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1729	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:14:00 - [3] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Uh... No. While I DO run damage mods on my G-Logi, because I'm not a Shield Tanker, I know it isn't the only thing that works. I run Stealth/E-War Scout, I know a Speed-Tanking Heavy, I've seen proper shield-tankers, with Extenders, Regulators, Rechargers, etc. Damage Mods don't win all fights, skill does. This is obviously a rage thread, so I urge newberries to NOT listen to it. I've killed plenty of proto-stompers with only a pair of STD Nova Knives and a Combat Rifle. I don't stack damage mods, I stack Shield Extenders. No its not a rage thread lol. I'm trying to help newbs overcome this notion that proto is god mode, you don't account for the large majority of fresh players do you? Be quiet. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1729	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:18:00 - [4] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Uh... No. While I DO run damage mods on my G-Logi, because I'm not a Shield Tanker, I know it isn't the only thing that works. I run Stealth/E-War Scout, I know a Speed-Tanking Heavy, I've seen proper shield-tankers, with Extenders, Regulators, Rechargers, etc. Damage Mods don't win all fights, skill does. This is obviously a rage thread, so I urge newberries to NOT listen to it. I've killed plenty of proto-stompers with only a pair of STD Nova Knives and a Combat Rifle. I don't stack damage mods, I stack Shield Extenders. Actually being able to drop people within 1.5 seconds is priceless, be quiet, its as if your trying to awoxx decent advice for newbs who feel they don't do any damage will being dropped in a heartbeat. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 679	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:55:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not AWOXing decent advice, because this isn't really decent advice. This is pushing players into a single class, and telling them that stacking Complex Damage Mods is the only viable option. New Eden is about freedom of choice, and if you tell the newbies (who WILL take you for your word, by the way), that the only good way to play is with tons of damage mods, it's going to make the game hell for them. Especially when, at that low of a level, they should be leveling Core Skills, and getting better equipment to fill the role that they chose. While stacking loads of Damage Mods is an option, it's not the only option. And if you're going to suggest it, at least tell them that there are other roles they can play. My proto-logi consists of 5 Armor Plates (4 complex, 1 Enhanced), and 3 Enhanced Damage Mods, with an Advanced Combat Rifle. When people ask me if they should go down the G-Logi path, so they can have my level of power and tank, I always tell them "It's a legitimate path, and a good one to choose, but there are other classes out there you might like better". Not to mention that normally, if you start off with the hardest setup, you come out on top almost all the time. Example, one of the teachers at the Learning Coalition is the all-star of Scouts. #2 on the Scout Killboard, in fact. He went 60/3 with a Minmatar Scout and a K5 Shotgun. Now, imagine, if Scouts were actually GOOD in the hands of an average player, then how good would my friend be? He started with the hardest class to play, got good at it, adapted to the condition of said class, and then when it gets a good buff, he'll probably be one of the more feared players in this game. TL;DR, Going easy-mode isn't always the best thing to do. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 70	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:40:00 - [6] - Quote How many SP to get it? How many to get the dropsuit to fit it? Extra SP to fit it and the weapon? Really a noobs option or a proto stompers one? Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 681	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:48:00 - [7] - Quote No idea which side you're on, Tch Tch, but you have 69 likes, so I'm giving you one to keep this forum family-friendly. :D ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 70	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:55:00 - [8] - Quote Logics side generally. Some of the strategy for noobs clearly forget it takes 6 mths of game play to get the SP and the gameplay skills to utilize them. Noobs are not entitled to win anymore then a single AV should be able to take out a tank with ease. Vets should be able to kick butt. But not immune and not using hardware limitations. The counter to something should not be itself. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 682	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:02:00 - [9] - Quote So basically what I said. Sort of. That last sentence sounded familiar. +1 again, because I hate the number 70 and I like you. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Mithridates VI 2140	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:33:00 - [10] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: So basically what I said. Sort of. That last sentence sounded familiar. +1 again, because I hate the number 70 and I like you. You can't buy support with forum likes!

Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 682	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:45:00 - [11] - Quote YOU DON'T KNOW, I COULD! runs away crying Actually, believe it or not, I do hate the number 70. The number 7 in general scares me to death. :P ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1737	Posted - 2013.12.13 13:55:00 - [12] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: I'm not AWOXing decent advice, because this isn't really decent advice. This is pushing players into a single class, and telling them that stacking Complex Damage Mods is the only viable option. New Eden is about freedom of choice, and if you tell the newbies (who WILL take you for your word, by the way), that the only good way to play is with tons of damage mods, it's going to make the game hell for them. Especially when, at that low of a level, they should be leveling Core Skills, and getting better equipment to fill the role that they chose. While stacking loads of Damage Mods is an option, it's not the only option. And if you're going to suggest it, at least tell them that there are other roles they can play. My proto-logi consists of 5 Armor Plates (4 complex, 1 Enhanced), and 3 Enhanced Damage Mods, with an Advanced Combat Rifle. When people ask me if they should go down the G-Logi path, so they can have my level of power and tank, I always tell them "It's a legitimate path, and a good one to choose, but there are other classes out there you might like better". Not to mention that normally, if you start off with the hardest setup, you come out on top almost all the time. Example, one of the teachers at the Learning Coalition is the all-star of Scouts. #2 on the Scout Killboard, in fact. He went 60/3 with a Minmatar Scout and a K5 Shotgun. Now, imagine, if Scouts were actually GOOD in the hands of an average player, then how good would my friend be? He started with the hardest class to play, got good at it, adapted to the condition of said class, and then when it gets a good buff, he'll probably be one of the more feared players in this game. TL;DR, Going easy-mode isn't always the best thing to do. Ok so if my opinion is bias then what makes yours so valid, you came at this from the wrong angle. Neither of us are actually wrong. Your just using your own bias point of view to trash mine, stop behaving like an idiot please, you know damn well most of the player base are logis or assaults. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1737	Posted - 2013.12.13 13:59:00 - [13] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: No idea which side you're on, Tch Tch, but you have 69 likes, so I'm giving you one to keep this forum family-friendly. :D This right here show's your level of idiocy, this is good advice and you are behaving like its a fking competition, absolutely ridiculous. There is no side, using bias points of view to trash other bias points of view is actually stupid and that is what you have done, why didn't you just add to it with your own scouts bit? I'm hiding your posts now because you have displayed the level of stupidity that belongs on my hide posts list, shame. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1737	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:01:00 - [14] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: How many SP to get it? How many to get the dropsuit to fit it? Extra SP to fit it and the weapon? Really a noobs option or a proto stompers one? This is not general discussion, its the rookie advice thread, go make a posts talking about sp requirements, do I have to block you as well? Are you going to behave like a little **** as well? Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 685	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:02:00 - [15] - Quote You're misunderstanding. You're supposed to be ENCOURAGING multiple playstyles, THAT'S what I'm trying to say. I'm not biased, I'm trying to tell you that telling blueberries the only option is Logi/Assault is not the way to go. What you're doing is creating more FoTM people, and we all know how much we hate that. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 685	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:03:00 - [16] - Quote Also, Tch Tch was saying that no newbie will be able to afford Complex Damage Mods, Core Locus Nades, AND the suits to fit them with starter SP. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1737	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:11:00 - [17] - Quote And as you can see, continues to trash thread with points of view in the rookie training grounds. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1737	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:12:00 - [18] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Also, Tch Tch was saying that no newbie will be able to afford Complex Damage Mods, Core Locus Nades, AND the suits to fit them with starter SP. And any newb has to work towards getting things, you completely don't get it and have trashed my thread, thank you. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 685	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:14:00 - [19] - Quote Read my signature. I've been doing this teaching thing for a VERY long time. I got to be the CEO of BSoTT, AND I co-founded the Learning Coalition, an entity which has well over 100 newbies, and counting. More than half of those people will confirm to you that I'm a fine teacher, including (But not limited to): -Former CEO of BSoTT -Most if not all of my advisors -Most Learning Coalition students and teachers, 60% of which have more than doubled my SP count -The other co-founders of the Learning Coalition It's a lot of people, if you add it up, trust me. Send me a mail, join Learning Coalition, whatever you need to do, but we need to squad and point out eachother's points here. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1743	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:29:00 - [20] - Quote For the record, we have both apologised to each other, anyone reading can disregard the altercation. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.

TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1744	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:33:00 - [21] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Read my signature. I've been doing this teaching thing for a VERY long time. I got to be the CEO of BSoTT, AND I co-founded the Learning Coalition, an entity which has well over 100 newbies, and counting. More than half of those people will confirm to you that I'm a fine teacher, including (But not limited to): -Former CEO of BSoTT -Most if not all of my advisors -Most Learning Coalition students and teachers, 60% of which have more than doubled my SP count -The other co-founders of the Learning Coalition It's a lot of people, if you add it up, trust me. Send me a mail, join Learning Coalition, whatever you need to do, but we need to squad and point out eachother's points here. We are basically on the same page in respect to the fact we have trained alot of people, other than two others everyone in swamp came to dust about 3 months ago, oh except caddi, he joined yesterday. My CEO is ex goon and I'm the only director, that way we are secure and I'd advise other corps to do this as theres no need for liability, you have witnessed the scum as well, it's all in the war room aye Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Lanius Pulvis Kinsho Swords Caldari State 112	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:04:00 - [22] - Quote Just as a contrast for new players, to get Core Locus grenades will cost you1,242,000 SP, for less than that you could get Armor Plates to level 3, Armor repairers to level 3 AND Assault Rifle Ops to level 5. There are plenty of viable playstyles, the OP lists 1 only, keep that in mind. Not new, just new to you.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1744	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:09:00 - [23] - Quote Lanius Pulvis wrote: Just as a contrast for new players, to get Core Locus grenades will cost you1,242,000 SP, for less than that you could get Armor Plates to level 3, Armor repairers to level 3 AND Assault Rifle Ops to level 5. There are plenty of viable playstyles, the OP lists 1 only, keep that in mind. Which is the winning fit 90% of the time, every person I have spoken to who says "I'm dying loads now and can't even take their shields down" I have told to put on damage mods and straight away their problem is solved. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 380	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:00:00 - [24] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: You're misunderstanding. You're supposed to be ENCOURAGING multiple playstyles, THAT'S what I'm trying to say. I'm not biased, I'm trying to tell you that telling blueberries the only option is Logi/Assault is not the way to go. What you're doing is creating more FoTM people, and we all know how much we hate that. Nope. The encouragement of multiple playstyles is CCPs job. tried to not skill into damage mods on main to run shield fits. But about to skill into them. I did it on an alt and OP is right. Its instant success.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1840	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:45:00 - [25] - Quote I am sorry you two got off on the wrong foot. GÇ£Skill damage modsGÇ¥ is advice I only give to FPS vets who have a good gun game. For an EVE vet who has never used a DS3 or played a FPS, I always recommend core shield and armor skills. If you canGÇÖt hit your target the Damage Mods donGÇÖt do much. More shields and armor may help them make it to cover when they are being shot at. Although the TTK is so short right now that modules donGÇÖt make a huge difference, but CCP will fix that, probably next patch.
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 76	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:15:00 - [26] - Quote Assumptions are fine but we should have some guides that include pre-reqs. Play FPS all the time but new to RPG games, how to spend your SP best bang for buck, & how to stay isk positive. Play Eve buy not FPS. How to get better at your gun game ie how to use non AA weapons to improve your skills. How WP isnt just KDR - How to hack, drop uplinks, inject and hive - How to be a logibro lite and embrace Anyhow I'm sure with all the people we have we could make our own unofficial Certs. As for Complex Damagr modifiers its not just there SP. it's all the supporting SP (unless everything else is MLT) such as drop suit, weapon, core and then tactics and gun game. Sometimes a new player will just have to get burnt before they understand the benefits other times the advice is more suitable to a journeyman in he 5-10 million SP bracket. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1753	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:27:00 - [27] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I am sorry you two got off on the wrong foot. GÇ£Skill damage modsGÇ¥ is advice I only give to FPS vets who have a good gun game. For an EVE vet who has never used a DS3 or played a FPS, I always recommend core shield and armor skills. If you canGÇÖt hit your target the Damage Mods donGÇÖt do much. More shields and armor may help them make it to cover when they are being shot at. Although the TTK is so short right now that modules donGÇÖt make a huge difference, but CCP will fix that, probably next patch. Yeah it's not absolute but seen as three quarters of the players are logis or assault then this setup is pure win, you can kill anyone ridiculously quick. Obviously medic logis should brick tank generally as they need to shrug of shots but with current ttk brick tank doesnt really mean sweet fa at the mo, think about it next time you mow down a heavy in cqc, then imagine 3 damage mods in the mix. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1753	Posted - 2013.12.13 23:29:00 - [28] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Assumptions are fine but we should have some guides that include pre-reqs. Play FPS all the time but new to RPG games, how to spend your SP best bang for buck, & how to stay isk positive. Play Eve buy not FPS. How to get better at your gun game ie how to use non AA weapons to improve your skills. How WP isnt just KDR - How to hack, drop uplinks, inject and hive - How to be a logibro lite and embrace Anyhow I'm sure with all the people we have we could make our own unofficial Certs. As for Complex Damagr modifiers its not just there SP. it's all the supporting SP (unless everything else is MLT) such as drop suit, weapon, core and then tactics and gun game. Sometimes a new player will just have to get burnt before they understand the benefits other times the advice is more suitable to a journeyman in he 5-10 million SP bracket. Yeah well in depth guides is ccps job, been playing rpgs since Ultima online and that game is still going funnily enough. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 693	Posted - 2013.12.14 01:04:00 - [29] - Quote I started serious MMO playing on City Of Heroes. R.I.P. :( ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 381	Posted - 2013.12.14 12:10:00 - [30] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I am sorry you two got off on the wrong foot. GÇ£Skill damage modsGÇ¥ is advice I only give to FPS vets who have a good gun game. For an EVE vet who has never used a DS3 or played a FPS, I always recommend core shield and armor skills. If you canGÇÖt hit your target the Damage Mods donGÇÖt do much. More shields and armor may help them make it to cover when they are being shot at. Although the TTK is so short right now that modules donGÇÖt make a huge difference, but CCP will fix that, probably next patch. Everyone who is an FPS vet is running damage mods. I am an FPS vet. I ran damage mods all through beta - I have been here since replication. I tried to not run them since launch to run shield tanking with recharge but module balance is so broken in this game that damage mods are so much more worth it - and I have now given into the inevitable (caused by CCPs rubbish balancing) Admittedly I am basing my loadout on what is required for PC. in pubs I have found that if I am not running mods I am not at too much of a disadvantage. But I would give this advice to non FPS vets too. I am a bit concerned that you think advice from FPS vets isn't the right advice for new people. Advice from vets would in my mind have a strong weighting. They know what they are doing. For example, core skills are not the b all and end all - beyond 3 they should only be maxed if SP cant be spent on active modules that give you greater bang for your buck. TTK will not necessarily be 'fixed' - even if it does need to be fixed, which I am not so sure it does. Rather bonuses such as regen / recharge and to armour need to be massively reworked More importantly CCP do not seem to be able to balance modules to create the different playstyles you talk about But by the time CCP may have got round to sorting out the above you might as well as have got your damage mods to begin with because you will have more SP to spend in whatever the 'new' playstyle CCP is trying to introduce



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