DUST Search - balance vs content

Vell0cet wrote:

Both. We desperately need to address the TTK issues (it's horribly game-breaking and unbalanced), but after that most weapons will be fairly balanced. We need to get the cloaks ASAP, because we can't balance scouts until they're here (if we buff them now--they do need it badly--and then give them cloaks it could really break the game). I also think we're way overdue for the missing racial variants of suits/vehicles/turrets. We need all of them within the next 2-3 months.

Also getting the NPE up-to-par is absolutely critical for the long-term viability of this game.

The roadmap I would like to see is roughly:

1.8
TTK resolved!
All Scouts/Heavies (possible respec of suits)
Scout cloak
P2P market
New map/sockets
PC lag resolved
Addition of 2nd tier optional academy game mode up to 2-5mill SP
Test range for testing pre-release content (see sig for how this could be done with modest effort)

1.9
Team deploy
Amarr and Minmatar vehicles
Laser/projectile turrets
Pilot suits
Vehicle Capacitors
ISK-efficiency stat

1.10
Missing Heavy Weapons
Missing sidearms

1.11+
PC 2.0
Highly polished NPE with gameplay tutorial
Continuing to balance/refine/polish gameplay and add more maps/sockets
E-War

Begin work on porting to PS4
Begin work on amazing PvE that interacts with EVE exploration
Other vehicles: Speeder bikes, MAVs, fighters, MTACs
Vegetation
Water
Caves
Amazing new maps using water, vegetation, caves etc.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 262	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:10:00 - [1] - Quote In your opinion what should ccp focus on Making the current content fair and balanced Or Making bew content for the game Imo id rather see more content right now its sorta like playing rock paper lets add scissors and for good measure lizard and spock too Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4663	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:11:00 - [2] - Quote CONTENT! This game is relatively balanced as of 1.7. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Zahle Undt Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 515	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:22:00 - [3] - Quote Content! Balance doesn't make the game any fresher and rarely does it really make Dust more fun.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 354	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:26:00 - [4] - Quote Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4666	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too. Balanced game play is meaningless if content is boring and lacking significant advancements. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 354	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:32:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too. Balanced game play is meaningless if content is boring and lacking significant advancements. Dressing a pig in a dress does not make it a beautiful woman.
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 3868	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:34:00 - [7] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too. Except the core gameplay is not broken nor unbalanced. It is relatively in good shape. Thus, CONTENT!!! Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4668	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:35:00 - [8] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: True Adamance wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too. Balanced game play is meaningless if content is boring and lacking significant advancements. Dressing a pig in a dress does not make it a beautiful woman. Makes her more interesting. Dressing a beautiful woman in ****** clothes doesn't mean she isn't a gold digger, wont cheat on you, and take your kids and half of what you are worth after three years..... Seriously come on I can do this all day. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 91	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:37:00 - [9] - Quote how can you properly balance the game without the content? Focus on content and then balance it all. I mean there are so many adjustments that need to be made all together why not get all of the content in and do it all at once?
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 3868	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:39:00 - [10] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: how can you properly balance the game without the content? Focus on content and then balance it all. I mean there are so many adjustments that need to be made all together why not get all of the content in and do it all at once? Because CCP Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 662	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:42:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: CONTENT! This game is relatively balanced as of 1.7. This. We need our other racial suits and boosts to the Scouts and Heavies. Also all racial sidearms, both the SMGs and pistols. Also need the player market and a fix to the lag in PC along with something to make PC interesting other than farming. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Hellkeizer The Avutora Complex 202	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:56:00 - [12] - Quote Content look at my signature Waiting on PvE Balancing without core content is a fail "Don't chu go disrespecting coconut water!" Chakra Attack
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 899	Posted - 2013.12.09 23:57:00 - [13] - Quote Balance! Because throwing new things into the mix wildly just makes everything more chaotic and harder to balance. Balance is needed, everyone must agree to that. Balancing is more difficult with too many things to balance. That is also a flat fact. Adding too much content too soon delays us getting a good game... Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1895	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:02:00 - [14] - Quote The game is pretty balanced for the majority of things.....imma say more content "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 65	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:03:00 - [15] - Quote If you don't have balance or non equivalent counters (ie something other than a sniper to counter a sniper) than you can have heaps of content but you will quickly see only FOTM on the field. Systems will tend towards equilibrium. FOTM often are the stable equilibrium point which have the least energy requirements for the most output. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 299	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:15:00 - [16] - Quote CCP pretty much perfectly balanced all infantry weapons in 1.6 before they improved hit detection. Id say let them get it back there. That said, I would go content. Broken mechanics and unbalanced gameplay can be ignored if you're playing something full of cool features and things to do. EVE does this, and it's great (constantly being rebalanced, but also constantly adding features) "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1800	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:22:00 - [17] - Quote How can you balance everything without everything being there? You'd just end up having to re-balance it again anyways. Balance GëÑ Content My Very First Thread About Tanks -HAND
21yrOld Knight Pradox One Proficiency V. 375	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:40:00 - [18] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: True Adamance wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too. Balanced game play is meaningless if content is boring and lacking significant advancements. Dressing a pig in a dress does not make it a beautiful woman. Woa, Woa who are you to say what is beautiful and what isn't.
Kovinis Sparagas Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 105	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:46:00 - [19] - Quote 1) Core content 2) Core balance 3) Fixes 4) Balance 5) Content I support BPO removal and RDV to take your vehicles back
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1333	Posted - 2013.12.10 00:52:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: How can you balance everything without everything being there? You'd just end up having to re-balance it again anyways. Balance GëÑ Content This. +1 Atiim. And there's another thing: look at the back-and-forth going on with Heinrich and 'Scout Registry' atm. This is because core mechanics have changed and consequently changed the behavior of various weapon groups differentially, which have in turn changed the way peeps fit and use suits, which have in turn changed tactics which...... We have to acknowledge that DUST is still half-baked(but looking like it's gonna be damn tasty!) and not only are weapons stats changing but core mechanics as well. To try and balance in this environment would be a fool's game, a waste of already over-committed resources, and would cost us far more than we stand to gain. We need the core content. We need stable, quality mechanics. And then we need balance. I support SP rollover.

Foxbat 071 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 76	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:09:00 - [21] - Quote Content, at least as far as suits, weapons, vehicles, etc. You can balance all you want now but new content will just force a rebalance. And so on until all content is out. I want to have a peace of mind when skilling into things. *BLAP* ( X ) Call For Help ( O ) Respawn
lrian Locust Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 304	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:11:00 - [22] - Quote I'd say CCP focuses on player retention. The more players, the more balanced the battles will be, the more fun the matches will be, and the less of a gap there'll be between the current vets and the hordes of new players that are (hopefully) to come. And it'll allow CCP to get some more money in and hire additional developers who can add some new content. In that case, the priority would be: - Fix the prevailing content gaps that prevent players from enjoying a class (love for scouts, extra racial suits, new weapons for heavies, etc.) - Fix the main game-breaking mechanics (lag, hit detection. matchmaking) - Make the game easier to get into for new players (matchmaking again, in-game help, PvE tutorial) - Add new content (maps, sockets, terrains, market, etc.) A little balancing can be done on the fly with ninja-nerves, but I'd rather have new content. And please CCP, please work on your communication, ESPECIALLY towards new players!
Herman Hardon The Rainbow Effect 23	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:42:00 - [23] - Quote Content! Get the rest of suits and weapons in the game. Get the market up and running so that some of the newer players that didnt get the buy out " salvage" from chromosome have alittle bit more income from selling off the stuff they dont need. Figure out away to let the newer guys have a miltia only game mode or a under 5 mill sp game mode. Somthing so that as soon as they are outta the academy they dont get stomped into a bloody goo on my shoe. The game wont grow if new guys dont enjoy getting stomped on over and over . Then work on tweaking all the weapons and suits as needed . Ps I dont wanna hear I should stop running proto what eles am I suppose to spend my half billion isk on?
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream 600	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:47:00 - [24] - Quote True Adamance wrote: CONTENT! This game is relatively balanced as of 1.7. HAHAHAHAHHA Host of Zilla's Games! The best defense in not a good offense, it's a good defense.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 968	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:49:00 - [25] - Quote Ummm.... you CAN'T balance until you have all the basic content.... eg. heavy and scout suits and weapons, all module archetypes, etc. balancing the heavy versus everything else right now would be pointless if there are suddenly 3 more heavies introduced down the line and the game is suddenly unbalanced again My forum forge gun has a 1000% damage bonus against stupid posts
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Public Disorder. 307	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:53:00 - [26] - Quote Content > Balance at the moment we need this
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 608	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:54:00 - [27] - Quote more content. this game is beyond boring right now. balance can wait.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 678	Posted - 2013.12.10 02:09:00 - [28] - Quote Both. We desperately need to address the TTK issues (it's horribly game-breaking and unbalanced), but after that most weapons will be fairly balanced. We need to get the cloaks ASAP, because we can't balance scouts until they're here (if we buff them now--they do need it badly--and then give them cloaks it could really break the game). I also think we're way overdue for the missing racial variants of suits/vehicles/turrets. We need all of them within the next 2-3 months. Also getting the NPE up-to-par is absolutely critical for the long-term viability of this game. The roadmap I would like to see is roughly: 1.8 TTK resolved! All Scouts/Heavies (possible respec of suits) Scout cloak P2P market New map/sockets PC lag resolved Addition of 2nd tier optional academy game mode up to 2-5mill SP Test range for testing pre-release content (see sig for how this could be done with modest effort) 1.9 Team deploy Amarr and Minmatar vehicles Laser/projectile turrets Pilot suits Vehicle Capacitors ISK-efficiency stat 1.10 Missing Heavy Weapons Missing sidearms 1.11+ PC 2.0 Highly polished NPE with gameplay tutorial Continuing to balance/refine/polish gameplay and add more maps/sockets E-War Begin work on porting to PS4 Begin work on amazing PvE that interacts with EVE exploration Other vehicles: Speeder bikes, MAVs, fighters, MTACs Vegetation Water Caves Amazing new maps using water, vegetation, caves etc. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1336	Posted - 2013.12.10 03:33:00 - [29] - Quote In DUST there's several type of content we need, but there two that are most important atm. 1) Weapons/suit/equipment/vehicles content to fill out the lineups so we can balance. 2) Gamemode options. Even one, if well done, would be a valuable addition to this game. And if we can only have one it should focus on the NPE. It's not an either/or question, we need them both to move the game forward. I support SP rollover.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 472	Posted - 2013.12.10 04:18:00 - [30] - Quote Balance is actually pretty good in the game at the moment. As long as the new rifles and vehicles don't shatter things you're in good shape to build from here. You really need critical mass of of content (all basic racial items in) then dip back into balance...otherwise you are in a trap loop of mini content vs re-balance that ultimately slows everything down. So...Content, please.

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 822	Posted - 2013.12.10 04:37:00 - [31] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Balance! Content is meaningless if the core gameplay is broken & unbalanced. Though I'd like some new content too. Balanced game play is meaningless if content is boring and lacking significant advancements. Though I disagree with your first post, that it will be balanced enough (Repping hives, laser rifles, core grenades, ... just to name a few examples) in 1.7, this I do agree with. Though the game would be unbalanced for a few months, if you throw all the essentials in then you can start focusing more resources on game balance. You'll see everything in action together and see what needs to be worked on to set it apart from everything else. If content is too good compared to other things, you can adjust a few variables to make it UP for a few weeks while you work on a way of fixing it. Trying things out in test servers doesn't come close to the testing that things would get if it were given to us to test out. So basically, even if you put everything into the game right now and make all of the new stuff underpowered, at least we would be able to give feedback on how to make it work properly. UP or OP content that needs work is far more preferable to waiting around for months wondering if what you want to spec into will ever even be put into the game. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! *WE WILL NOT GIVE IN!!* MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 522	Posted - 2013.12.14 20:57:00 - [32] - Quote Anyone else notice people who had quit playing Dust returning since 1.7 dropped? I have seen more old Dust buddies this past week than the past 3 months. I know most of them were tempted to at least try a little Dust again thanks to just 2 new rifles. I think content is handily winning this argument. Just imagine if the put out a new suit each of the next 2 updates or one of the other racial tank variants or OMG laser turrets. New content in small increments will keep people around wanting to grind to skill into things and will make people who have stopped playing at least come check out the game again.
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 387	Posted - 2013.12.14 21:08:00 - [33] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Both. We desperately need to address the TTK issues (it's horribly game-breaking and unbalanced), but after that most weapons will be fairly balanced. We need to get the cloaks ASAP, because we can't balance scouts until they're here (if we buff them now--they do need it badly--and then give them cloaks it could really break the game). I also think we're way overdue for the missing racial variants of suits/vehicles/turrets. We need all of them within the next 2-3 months. Also getting the NPE up-to-par is absolutely critical for the long-term viability of this game. The roadmap I would like to see is roughly: 1.8 TTK resolved! All Scouts/Heavies (possible respec of suits) Scout cloak P2P market New map/sockets PC lag resolved Addition of 2nd tier optional academy game mode up to 2-5mill SP Test range for testing pre-release content (see sig for how this could be done with modest effort) 1.9 Team deploy Amarr and Minmatar vehicles Laser/projectile turrets Pilot suits Vehicle Capacitors ISK-efficiency stat 1.10 Missing Heavy Weapons Missing sidearms 1.11+ PC 2.0 Highly polished NPE with gameplay tutorial Continuing to balance/refine/polish gameplay and add more maps/sockets E-War Begin work on porting to PS4 Begin work on amazing PvE that interacts with EVE exploration Other vehicles: Speeder bikes, MAVs, fighters, MTACs Vegetation Water Caves Amazing new maps using water, vegetation, caves etc. Where would the other two heavy weapons fit into this TBA IS NOT A NAME! At least give the heavy laser a name so we know you MIGHT be working on it.
Naviticus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 24	Posted - 2013.12.14 21:11:00 - [34] - Quote how bout core game mechanics? and stop patching, patches with patches that were patched by 2 other patches?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4166	Posted - 2013.12.14 21:41:00 - [35] - Quote Question makes no sense. The main imbalances in the current state of DUST are due to content that isn't available yet. Adding new content is the way to balance a lot of the current content.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6184	Posted - 2013.12.14 21:47:00 - [36] - Quote True Adamance wrote: CONTENT! This game is relatively balanced as of 1.7. >relatively balanced >tank514 Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 654	Posted - 2013.12.14 22:06:00 - [37] - Quote I'm all per the content side of this. {:)}{3GÇó> HTFU: adapt or die
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 248	Posted - 2013.12.14 22:23:00 - [38] - Quote Blatent OP and UP balence needs to be a damage control as they focus on content, while i agree with they need the core content they need to strengthen whats weak and weaken whats too strong at a patch to patch level while having a focus on getting the core content out asap, from there they can introduce fine balence and release major content like PVE, new suit and weapon classes not the racial varients all racial varients should come at once from now on no more place holders. By far the best way to do this would be tiericide everything to make balence easier and if tiers are to be reintorduced then do it when everything already balenced a unbalenced suit becomes extremely OP at proto level.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1646	Posted - 2013.12.14 22:24:00 - [39] - Quote Balancing WITH new content (such as webifiers to slow down vehicles) Making AV an actual role GÿåTank DriverGÿå
Naviticus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 25	Posted - 2013.12.14 23:52:00 - [40] - Quote CCP is seeming to have the problems of balancing all new content. Core Game mechanics, i.e. hit detection, shield ticks, head glitching, rendering and actually fixing things instead of adjusting Content: How can you balance whats not there? I'm glad my proto sentinel has a 25% reduction to non existent weapon feedback damage.....and i hope your not planning on making the pilot suits the way we initially saw them... reduction on vehicle cool down? ah yes indeed hardners will recover in 24 seconds instead of what they are, now and that my friends will be the next uprising you cant add new content to old broken mecanics. But hey.... lets rebuild vehicles from the ground up and ignore pilot suits till later. Better yet lets build a house and put on the foundation last guys, we got this



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