DUST Search - Guide to DUST 514: Core Skills

Fox Gaden wrote:

Sana Rayya wrote:

I think it's a mistake to prioritize core skills over your suit/modules/weapon. Most core skills you can leave at lvl 2-3 while unlocking your proto suit and proto modules. It makes no sense to me to put so many points into getting skills to Lvl 5 when a) you're not going to use the proto module they unlock, or they don't unlock anything at all, and b) it costs the same amount of SP as getting it from 1-4 to get it from 4 to 5, when the bonus it lends is still the same per each level. That's a lot of SP. For example, with the SP it takes to get Engineering, Electronics, and Weapon Proficiency from 4-5, you could nearly unlock your proto suit.

AFTER you unlock all the modules and suit you want, and to the level you want (which may not always be 5), you should round out your core skills. Until then, doing so prematurely puts you at a disadvantage because good suits and modules really give you survivability, not an extra few % on your shields/armor/fitting or whatever. For shield/armor upgrades, most suits benefit from one more than the other, so don't bother upgrading your "weak' aspect past lvl 2 until everything else is where you want it.

CPU/PG is the only exception, if this is what you need to wear the suit you want. Just unlock these to the extent that allows you to use your fit. The Dust Fitting Tool by hydraSlav is spot on for planning your skill progression and fits in this regard.

That is only a good approach if you are a skilled FPS vet and can maintain a high KDR right from the start.

I was squadded with a kid yesterday who was running Proto Suits but had just over 1 million ISK and was begging for money. That is why I donGÇÖt normally advocate going for expensive suits before upgrading basic suit skills.

Maxing Shield and Armour skills will give them 25% more health without costing them anything. Although, as you say, for half the skill point investment they can settle for 20%. Then levelling up to proto modules to put on a Basic suit will give them a lot more health and DPS for far less of a Skill point and ISK investment.

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8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 968	Posted - 2013.12.09 10:23:00 - [1] - Quote A lot of new players see veteran players in high end gear and believe that is the only reason they are losing their battles. Its is much more than using your SP to achieve use of the highest gear, it's about using the SP to maximize your character's potential. Example: An Amarr Starter Fit Blueprint dropsuit has 180Shield/180Armor(360 total HP). But maximizing the SHIELD and ARMOR UPGRADE in the Core Skills section of the skill tree will extend it to 225/225(450 total HP) That is a substantial boost. It will allow you to rely less on modules. Instead of trying to use SP to obtain higher gear such a Damage Modifier or Shield Extender, think about skilling into the core skill that will give you a constant boost. Core skills that you should concentrate on first and foremost: ELECTRONICS ENGINEERING SHIELD UPGRADES ARMOR UPGRADES WEAPON PROFICIENCY Leveling his Core Skills up will improve your character's effectiveness, allow you to save ISK, and prepare you for the long term future of your character.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 509	Posted - 2013.12.09 12:10:00 - [2] - Quote I think it's a mistake to prioritize core skills over your suit/modules/weapon. Most core skills you can leave at lvl 2-3 while unlocking your proto suit and proto modules. It makes no sense to me to put so many points into getting skills to Lvl 5 when a) you're not going to use the proto module they unlock, or they don't unlock anything at all, and b) it costs the same amount of SP as getting it from 1-4 to get it from 4 to 5, when the bonus it lends is still the same per each level. That's a lot of SP. For example, with the SP it takes to get Engineering, Electronics, and Weapon Proficiency from 4-5, you could nearly unlock your proto suit. AFTER you unlock all the modules and suit you want, and to the level you want (which may not always be 5), you should round out your core skills. Until then, doing so prematurely puts you at a disadvantage because good suits and modules really give you survivability, not an extra few % on your shields/armor/fitting or whatever. For shield/armor upgrades, most suits benefit from one more than the other, so don't bother upgrading your "weak' aspect past lvl 2 until everything else is where you want it. CPU/PG is the only exception, if this is what you need to wear the suit you want. Just unlock these to the extent that allows you to use your fit. The Dust Fitting Tool by hydraSlav is spot on for planning your skill progression and fits in this regard.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2157	Posted - 2013.12.09 15:27:00 - [3] - Quote I've always advocated a balanced approach. Suit, weapon and core to level one. Repeat to level three. Repeat to level 4 or 5 depending on if it unlocks something. The priority of what constitutes a core skill though is probably the most confusing thing. I've been considering do a guide specifically for Minmatar that want to get into logistics and outlining a skill plan but I've been waiting for 1.7 before I do it. The order is suit, weapon and core is very specific since improved suits provide more fitting capacity. // Adapt or Die // Matari Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // @ReesNoturana
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1776	Posted - 2013.12.09 15:45:00 - [4] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I think it's a mistake to prioritize core skills over your suit/modules/weapon. Most core skills you can leave at lvl 2-3 while unlocking your proto suit and proto modules. It makes no sense to me to put so many points into getting skills to Lvl 5 when a) you're not going to use the proto module they unlock, or they don't unlock anything at all, and b) it costs the same amount of SP as getting it from 1-4 to get it from 4 to 5, when the bonus it lends is still the same per each level. That's a lot of SP. For example, with the SP it takes to get Engineering, Electronics, and Weapon Proficiency from 4-5, you could nearly unlock your proto suit. AFTER you unlock all the modules and suit you want, and to the level you want (which may not always be 5), you should round out your core skills. Until then, doing so prematurely puts you at a disadvantage because good suits and modules really give you survivability, not an extra few % on your shields/armor/fitting or whatever. For shield/armor upgrades, most suits benefit from one more than the other, so don't bother upgrading your "weak' aspect past lvl 2 until everything else is where you want it. CPU/PG is the only exception, if this is what you need to wear the suit you want. Just unlock these to the extent that allows you to use your fit. The Dust Fitting Tool by hydraSlav is spot on for planning your skill progression and fits in this regard. That is only a good approach if you are a skilled FPS vet and can maintain a high KDR right from the start. I was squadded with a kid yesterday who was running Proto Suits but had just over 1 million ISK and was begging for money. That is why I donGÇÖt normally advocate going for expensive suits before upgrading basic suit skills. Maxing Shield and Armour skills will give them 25% more health without costing them anything. Although, as you say, for half the skill point investment they can settle for 20%. Then levelling up to proto modules to put on a Basic suit will give them a lot more health and DPS for far less of a Skill point and ISK investment.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 375	Posted - 2013.12.09 16:05:00 - [5] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: I think it's a mistake to prioritize core skills over your suit/modules/weapon. Most core skills you can leave at lvl 2-3 while unlocking your proto suit and proto modules. It makes no sense to me to put so many points into getting skills to Lvl 5 when a) you're not going to use the proto module they unlock, or they don't unlock anything at all, and b) it costs the same amount of SP as getting it from 1-4 to get it from 4 to 5, when the bonus it lends is still the same per each level. That's a lot of SP. For example, with the SP it takes to get Engineering, Electronics, and Weapon Proficiency from 4-5, you could nearly unlock your proto suit. AFTER you unlock all the modules and suit you want, and to the level you want (which may not always be 5), you should round out your core skills. Until then, doing so prematurely puts you at a disadvantage because good suits and modules really give you survivability, not an extra few % on your shields/armor/fitting or whatever. For shield/armor upgrades, most suits benefit from one more than the other, so don't bother upgrading your "weak' aspect past lvl 2 until everything else is where you want it. CPU/PG is the only exception, if this is what you need to wear the suit you want. Just unlock these to the extent that allows you to use your fit. The Dust Fitting Tool by hydraSlav is spot on for planning your skill progression and fits in this regard. That is only a good approach if you are a skilled FPS vet and can maintain a high KDR right from the start. I was squadded with a kid yesterday who was running Proto Suits but had just over 1 million ISK and was begging for money. That is why I donGÇÖt normally advocate going for expensive suits before upgrading basic suit skills. Maxing Shield and Armour skills will give them 25% more health without costing them anything. Although, as you say, for half the skill point investment they can settle for 20%. Then levelling up to proto modules to put on a Basic suit will give them a lot more health and DPS for far less of a Skill point and ISK investment. yes the kid you met fails to understand the best approach to building his character but Sana is right. The SP for core skills maybe better used for modules. The trade off/ investment has to be worth it. i.e. get complex shield extenders first before maxing core shields - you get more shield than the last few tiers for passive. run an advanced suit - you can fit more and then max out core PG and CPU as you need. You an fit better modules/ weapons etc I think you are totally wrong to say this approach should be taken if you are a skilled FPS player. People are playing an RPG (in whatever limited/ broken form we have been given) and need to build their character accordingly in order to play effectively or compete - maximising SP investment would depend on what route you decide
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 660	Posted - 2013.12.10 01:40:00 - [6] - Quote I always urge my students to go for their Core Skills first, because they don't have the experience that most of us have, but I myself stay away from leveling up Core Skills above my gear, and sometimes keep it below. I can rely enough on my gear to do the work for me, although Level 3 in Core Armor is probably next on the list, after my Complex Plates. The only real use I see to getting Core Skills to Level 5 (Speaking as an Armor Tanker), is that I can have more of my main tank without sacrificing speed. But, I'll always get something if I absolutely need it to survive. For my Basic Scout, I had to get Enhanced Dampeners, Range Amplifiers, and Precision Enhancers, because it's hard to Stealth Tank without those. For my Assault, I got some better Armor Repairers. As a Logistics, I never needed Armor Repairers, but when I got the G-Assault, it was pretty much a requirement that I had at least Level 3 in the skill, so I could quickly rep up my 400+ Armor without having to carry a Compact Hive all the time. For my Heavy... I never got too much into Heavies. So yup. My belief is that you should have a balance between Core Skills and Gear UNLESS it's completely needed to increase survivability. Other than that: DuvolleDuvolleDuvolle ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Lanius Pulvis Kinsho Swords Caldari State 105	Posted - 2013.12.10 02:40:00 - [7] - Quote This is one of those topics which inspires many arguments, so here goes mine. The core skills are more worth the SP investment up to level 3. They're also dependent on what suit type you use. I crunched the numbers on my Heavy alt, so I'll give that example here. Assuming on my Heavy I will only fit 2 proto plates, that's 135 HP * 2 = 270 HP, now let's assume I also max the armor core skill, that's 270 + 480 = 750 * .25 = 187.5, we'll call it 188 HP. So the investment in SP for those plates is 932,760 / 270 = 3,454.6 SP per HP. The SP investment for the armor bonus from the core skill is 621,840 / 188 = 3,307.6 SP per HP. But if I upgraded the armor core skill BEFORE the plates the investment is 621,840 / 120 = 5,182 SP per HP. So the core skill makes more sense to do along with the plates, not before. Personally I upgrade the skills like armor and shields to level 3 just after leveling the plates to level 3, because the last 2 levels of any skill are where you run into diminishing returns. Staying with the example of my Heavy, I'm at Advanced tier with all my weapons, modules and suit and have yet to find any need for the PG core skill. In fact I've only had to put 2 levels each into DS Core Upgrades and Electronics. So while I agree with the OP about leveling up your core skills, I also agree with those who argue for a more balanced approach to leveling, i.e. level everything you're going to use to 3 before proceeding to 5. The key really is forecasting with one of the skill planners and a fitting tool...or pencil and paper if you remember what those are :) Not new, just new to you.
shady merc RisingSuns Public Disorder. 34	Posted - 2013.12.10 09:11:00 - [8] - Quote Ok here we go. Some core skills are good and some are better for certain suits. Here are my examples. Heavy should get core shield and armor skills. Maybe not to level 5 but 3 or 4 in each. They give you 5% health that's over 20hp a level going from basic to advanced plates is worth about 25 hit-points. Scouts. Biotics and scanner passives. This suit simply relies on passive skills the most plus each of these open up the ability to use modules you need for the suit. Biotics itself doesn't give modules but it open the skill for kin cats. Medium frames. No question go for the modules you want why. You have more slots so you are more likely to stack modules that lets you double dip on the skill bonus to them. Here are some modules to pay attention to. Damage modifiers double their effectiveness from adv to proto. The skill bonus almost makes them easier to fit. Shield extenders. It is easier to fit(CPU/pg) and cheaper(isk) to run one complex then to run 2 enhanced and you have the same hit-points. Proto weapons. Not only do you get the weapon skill bonus but you unlock the prof skill. 2 levels in the prof skill is like equipping a free enhanced damage modifier. Dropsuit skill. These skills give you 2 bonuses per level( for racial role suits assault,logi,scout,heavy)this is almost always better then 5% health. And once you get the suit to advanced. It give bonuses equivalent to 2 enhanced modules. With that said sometimes your suit will need you to upgrade passive skills. If you feel you need it then by all means go for it. The most likely ones to look at. CPU/pg skills and biotics.


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