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pa ck G.L.O.R.Y 7	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:19:00 - [1] - Quote REALLY? Shield recharge rate is already a joke. shields are NOT the problem. A few Noobs on the forums asked for shield stacking penalty so you gave it to them? what about 830 armour on a proto gallente logi? shields are not the problem, armour is.I would like a response CCP G.L.O.R.Y ELITE**
Cosgar ParagonX 8444	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:23:00 - [2] - Quote This was actually one of the penalties a lot of us agreed on, but it came out several patches too late. According to IWS, this was a preemptive action to prevent all the tryhards from going back to CaLogi because of the combat/rail rifle or something. But regardless, shields are bad right now until they fix TTK. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 232	Posted - 2013.12.07 04:37:00 - [3] - Quote From what I've read ots extremely minuscule, its just a fail safe so shields don't go fotm op without a hotfix possible Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 234	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:21:00 - [4] - Quote It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live.
Cosgar ParagonX 8450	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:26:00 - [5] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live. Until they realize it only affects depleted and applies the penalty to delay as well with a hot fix like when they found out they overbuffed passive scan for scouts. All this while people can feather an AR. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 235	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:35:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live. Until they realize it only affects depleted and applies the penalty to delay as well with a hot fix like when they found out they overbuffed passive scan for scouts. All this while people can feather an AR. More math. Longest shield delay is 8 seconds. 12% penalty on 8 seconds is 0.96 seconds. rounding up, your total is now 9 seconds flat. And the suits that have such a long recharge time can't even fit 5 extenders, so their penalty cannot even get that high. It is still not that bad. It's almost negligible.
Cosgar ParagonX 8452	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:39:00 - [7] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live. Until they realize it only affects depleted and applies the penalty to delay as well with a hot fix like when they found out they overbuffed passive scan for scouts. All this while people can feather an AR. More math. Longest shield delay is 8 seconds. 12% penalty on 8 seconds is 0.96 seconds. rounding up, your total is now 9 seconds flat. And the suits that have such a long recharge time can't even fit 5 extenders, so their penalty cannot even get that high. It is still not that bad. It's almost negligible. When you're going up against armor that can gank and tank at the same time, it matters. Shields are completely outclassed in this short TTK era. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 235	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:47:00 - [8] - Quote But short TTK isn't something to balance shields against. In fact, the reason TTK is so short now is the game was balanced based on something it shouldn't have been in the first place, which was bad hit detection. They should have just worked on fixing hit detection and gone from there, but that's a different can of worms. This penalty is not bad at all. Worst case scenario, if your shields go down and you don't die, an extra second of recharge wouldn't save you in 99% of situations. Even if a situation could theoretically be contrived to when the shield penalty prevented survival, it would happen so rarely that it wouldn't matter.
Cosgar ParagonX 8455	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:51:00 - [9] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: But short TTK isn't something to balance shields against. In fact, the reason TTK is so short now is the game was balanced based on something it shouldn't have been in the first place, which was bad hit detection. They should have just worked on fixing hit detection and gone from there, but that's a different can of worms. This penalty is not bad at all. Worst case scenario, if your shields go down and you don't die, an extra second of recharge wouldn't save you in 99% of situations. Even if a situation could theoretically be contrived to when the shield penalty prevented survival, it would happen so rarely that it wouldn't matter. True, but this penalty came at a bad time like just about any nerf or buff in this game. Imagine the flaylock if they managed to fix hit detection before they nerfed it. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 235	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:56:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: True, but this penalty came at a bad time like just about any nerf or buff in this game. Imagine the flaylock if they managed to fix hit detection before they nerfed it. I think the penalty was unnecessary to add considering the TTK, but my point is that it isn't doom and gloom to shield tanks. If anything, we may get a buff to extender hp since we now have a penalty on top of us. One can hope.

Cosgar ParagonX 8455	Posted - 2013.12.07 06:02:00 - [11] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cosgar wrote: True, but this penalty came at a bad time like just about any nerf or buff in this game. Imagine the flaylock if they managed to fix hit detection before they nerfed it. I think the penalty was unnecessary to add considering the TTK, but my point is that it isn't doom and gloom to shield tanks. If anything, we may get a buff to extender hp since we now have a penalty on top of us. One can hope. I'd rather just see damage mods moved to low slots. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 236	Posted - 2013.12.07 06:09:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cosgar wrote: True, but this penalty came at a bad time like just about any nerf or buff in this game. Imagine the flaylock if they managed to fix hit detection before they nerfed it. I think the penalty was unnecessary to add considering the TTK, but my point is that it isn't doom and gloom to shield tanks. If anything, we may get a buff to extender hp since we now have a penalty on top of us. One can hope. I'd rather just see damage mods moved to low slots. This.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3993	Posted - 2013.12.07 06:38:00 - [13] - Quote pa ck wrote: REALLY? Shield recharge rate is already a joke. shields are NOT the problem. A few Noobs on the forums asked for shield stacking penalty so you gave it to them? what about 830 armour on a proto gallente logi? shields are not the problem, armour is.I would like a response CCP Oh for ****'s sake... Shield Extenders have needed a penalty for ages, long before the current situation that favors armor, and before many of you were even playing the game. Since the beginning, armor plates have had a movement penalty where shield extenders have had none. In a game that emphasizes high movement speeds and a high TTK, having that major penalty for armor plates made armor tanking suicide against shield tankers. Keep in mind that you can get more armor hitpoints than shield hitpoints because of how the armor plates reduce your movement speed. Also keep in mind that currently the only ARs we have in the game do more damage to shield than armor. Both the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle will do more damage to armor than shield, and when the TTK issue is worked out, everything will fall into balance. Stop looking just at right now and look at the bigger picture. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11156	Posted - 2013.12.10 14:01:00 - [14] - Quote Remembers the days when people could regen shields faster you can shoot it down. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
tastzlike chicken ROGUE SPADES 111	Posted - 2013.12.10 17:08:00 - [15] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live. Is it even that high? In EVE stacking penalties themselves suffer from stacking penalties. so it may not be a full 3% penalty applied for each subsequent shield extender....
Shaira Ilv Enna-Ress Maphia Clan Corporation 4	Posted - 2013.12.10 17:15:00 - [16] - Quote Too bad a Flux grenade can wipe out the entire shields in 1 hit, then you'll gonna wait years until your shields start to recharge. No more than 5% penalty should be applied to "proto" shields, and 2% to Advanced ones; none to base model.
pa ck G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 9	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:24:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Remembers the days when people could regen shields faster you can shoot it down. Yea but they should not apply the penalty to basic proto. There are already slow to recharge. G.L.O.R.Y ELITE**
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 524	Posted - 2013.12.11 00:34:00 - [18] - Quote Guess what, guys? On a Cal Logi with a full rack of complex extenders, the delay is 12 seconds to start recharging after a self-flux. So the numbers CCP are using are wrong, and they are not applying stacking penalties per module as they do for armor. I would say that a 50% increase on the previous delay is a big deal.
Samoset Detrium G.R.A.V.E 5	Posted - 2013.12.11 14:53:00 - [19] - Quote Shaira Ilv Enna-Ress wrote: Too bad a Flux grenade can wipe out the entire shields in 1 hit, then you'll gonna wait years until your shields start to recharge. No more than 5% penalty should be applied to "proto" shields, and 2% to Advanced ones; none to base model. You have to consider that even basic armor plates have a movement penalty, and you also have to remember exactly how high they USED to be not too long ago. Not to mention you didn't even get as much armor then as you would now. Even as a shielder myself, I have to agree with the penalty on the simple grounds that things will be at least fair on the penalty part, mayhap not the exact numbers, but what cant a complex regulator fix? Even with 4 complex shields, that's a 28% penalty, which if you add a Complex regulator, makes it a basic penalty at 3%. what would an extra 3% matter to suits with a 6 second timer? You could easily do the same thing with a Kinetic Catalyzer for armor, fix the issue right there as far as a penalty. Or use Ferroscale plates. That may be a interesting idea though. have Ferroscale shields. Course they would have to fix the numbers for the regular extenders, but with these variants, there would be a shield increase yes, just not on the same scale or with the penalty as the regular extenders. Thoughts anyone? ^^^^
Magpie Raven ZionTCD Public Disorder. 319	Posted - 2013.12.11 15:02:00 - [20] - Quote Just saying. I have 2 Complex Extenders, 1 Adv Recharger, and 2 Adv Regulators. My shields pop up pretty quick. Dosent really bother me much Besides. How often do you survive if you shields drop to 0 being a shield tanker? Not super often in my experience

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 317	Posted - 2013.12.11 15:40:00 - [21] - Quote The way of shield tanking has changed. Before the armor buff shield tankers were using shield the same way an armor tanker should use armor going in directly starfing (well the strafing part is a little more difficult for armor tankers) and killing everything. This was possible because the HP difference was way lower and the movement penalty even harsher. Then the armor buff came in running in and starfing was not as viable as before. Did that change tactics? No but everyone was now dueltanking to catch up HP but still most used the same way to play. The shortenend TTK made this even worse for most it seem that high HP values are the only way to survive but thats not. You can still flank and use cover I know its a bit harder with low TTK and AA but ist still possible and viable and IMHO the way of the shield tanker.... So I don't think shield are UP but mostly used wrong...
Kilo Shells G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 13	Posted - 2013.12.11 17:09:00 - [22] - Quote The rail rifle changes how I can use my caldari suit a lot, popping in and out just feels natural. This penalty is a painful one though as it directly hurts the shield tankers play style. This two stones one bird approach also discourages the use of low slots for armor plates or whatever else to try and keep shield delay low.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 173	Posted - 2013.12.11 17:36:00 - [23] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live. Here's some math, it's actually 7% per Comlex Shield Extender and the description says nothing about stacking. So that's 7% per CSE you put on. At 35% longer that equals another 2.8 seconds for the 8 second delay. I would call that anything but small. On the positive side, it doesn't really matter at the moment with the TTK especially from Stacked Damage Modded Logis with Armour plates killing you in under a second. Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6009	Posted - 2013.12.11 17:45:00 - [24] - Quote pa ck wrote: REALLY? Shield recharge rate is already a joke. shields are NOT the problem. A few Noobs on the forums asked for shield stacking penalty so you gave it to them? what about 830 armour on a proto gallente logi? shields are not the problem, armour is.I would like a response CCP Armour is not the problem, the logistics class is. Show me the assault that can achieve the same EHP, regen, gank, and versatility that the logis can. Compare a Galassault to a Calassault, or an armour tanked Amarr, and you will see that there really isn't that much of a problem. However, compare any of those to a proto armour log and... well. The logistics is so far beyond reasonable balance it's absurd that they've existed in this form for 7 months. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 173	Posted - 2013.12.11 17:47:00 - [25] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: pa ck wrote: REALLY? Shield recharge rate is already a joke. shields are NOT the problem. A few Noobs on the forums asked for shield stacking penalty so you gave it to them? what about 830 armour on a proto gallente logi? shields are not the problem, armour is.I would like a response CCP Armour is not the problem, the logistics class is. Show me the assault that can achieve the same EHP, regen, gank, and versatility that the logis can. Compare a Galassault to a Calassault, or an armour tanked Amarr, and you will see that there really isn't that much of a problem. However, compare any of those to a proto armour log and... well. The logistics is so far beyond reasonable balance it's absurd that they've existed in this form for 7 months. Agree 100%. Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Ku Shala Exiled Veteran Elite 695	Posted - 2013.12.11 17:49:00 - [26] - Quote RR ,reactives, energizers and regulators.... keep the cali logis in the back 40 as slayers good work ccp First General of Exiled Veteran Elite Loyalty Is not always rewarded Caldari Loyalist
echo47 Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2013.12.11 19:45:00 - [27] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: It's a stacking penalty. Assuming 5 shield extenders (maximum that can be fit on a single suit), that's a 12% penalty, because it only applies after the first one. Assuming 10 second depleted recharge, 12% extra is 1.2 seconds. 1.2 seconds. That's nothing. And that's assuming worst case scenario. It's not that bad people. Shields will live. Until they realize it only affects depleted and applies the penalty to delay as well with a hot fix like when they found out they overbuffed passive scan for scouts. All this while people can feather an AR. More math. Longest shield delay is 8 seconds. 12% penalty on 8 seconds is 0.96 seconds. rounding up, your total is now 9 seconds flat. And the suits that have such a long recharge time can't even fit 5 extenders, so their penalty cannot even get that high. It is still not that bad. It's almost negligible. Then why add it? I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 528	Posted - 2013.12.11 21:35:00 - [28] - Quote In practice, the delay is increased by 50% with five complex extenders. Cal Logi depleted delay is now at 12 seconds with full shields. I've tested this multiple times.


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