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Why Nerf the Breach FG?

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LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 730	Posted - 2013.12.06 07:53:00 - [1] - Quote Very few, including myself, use the Breach variants. It is seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. The long charge times and inability to move make the Breach the most balanced Forge Gun out of the three options. However, this recent nerf to all FG variants hit the Breach the hardest. It now seems more useless than before. All the complaints about Assault FG tower sniping just killed a perfectly balanced weapon. R.I.P. Breach Forge Guns
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1163	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:02:00 - [2] - Quote Well, here's how it works. One Forge Gun is killing everything so that automatically means that all Forge Guns are bad and need to be nerfed, despite whether or not variants outside of the abused one are balanced or not. -AR 514 I'm a Breacher when high end tanks come into play. Come 1.7, I'll still be a Breacher. I'll be using my proto breach to stomp HAVers just as I've always done. The damage done to the Breach is a crime, but I refuse to let go of it (the Breach). You can nerf the damage of my weapons, but you cannot nerf my spirits. SWEET MOTHER OF TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ, YOU SOUND LIKE A MAJESTIC EAGLE! DO YOU SING?!
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 290	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:05:00 - [3] - Quote Base HP of gunnlogis will be close to 2300 shield right? If so you will literally instantly kill any tank that doesn't have resistance. Sooo... Upset about nerf why? I also had a fatty race: Mlt forge walking whilst charging, versus dcma/5 bunny hopping. Dcma won. And mlt guy was only half way there btw. LAV murder man: "I can kill with rails, therefore they're OP." CCP give me duct-tape extenders!
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 400	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:06:00 - [4] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: It is seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. Absolute rubbish. One shot can take all the shields off of the most shield tanked + hardener Python (and you never catch the first shot with a hardener). Despite the longer charge time (which is reduced to 4.5 sec iirc with skills), by the time I'm hit, reason what happened, and react, it's virtually impossible to get out of range or dodge the next shot. Not to mention I've been knocked around and have a very defective damage indicator, making everything all the more difficult. All the forges were broken, hopefully they'll be more balanced. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 669	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:35:00 - [5] - Quote so the charging time for the FG was not long enough? really? 3 seconds is a long time to charge a weapon while trying to dodge bullets and grenades being thrown at us. now its 4 seconds charge time???? so now we have to really dodge those bullets and hope that we survive long enough to charge the FG? geez CCP why dont you just nail our balls to the floor why dont you? YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 47	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:00:00 - [6] - Quote Sorry a FG can in situations out snipe a sniper. All it takes is height or walls and the blast radius pays off in spades... Ace to be precise. So you have a huge armored individual who can one or two shot tanks. One shot most infantry. And is practically immune to one shots even to the head. Plus less reputable members of the heavy FG fraternity might be WP farming by shooting all the visible neutral installations for double points even if the team could utilize a CRU or supply point to push the objective. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1431	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:13:00 - [7] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Very few, including myself, use the Breach variants. They are seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. The long charge times and inability to move make the Breach the most balanced Forge Gun out of the three options. However, this recent nerf to all FG variants hit the Breach the hardest. It now seems more useless than before. All the complaints about Assault FG tower sniping just killed a perfectly balanced weapon. R.I.P. Breach Forge Guns You're saying RIP because infantry needs every insane crutch. I happen to think they're incredible OP. One shot to the weak spot on a Madrugar with no modules running and a 180mm poly plate is all it takes to destroy it. I tested it with witnesses in an empty PC, and it was my own tank with nobody in it. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 552	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:19:00 - [8] - Quote As a pilot I can definitly say I got problems with the breach in its current state. But I'm not a tank so I don't expect to survive 2 shots from it. All I want is to be able to see where the hell you are so I have a half decent chance to get away "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11082	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:20:00 - [9] - Quote Breach Forge Guns are anti-air usually. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Infantry Armoring =// Unlocked
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3204	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:22:00 - [10] - Quote Well tanks are getting there hp nerfed so.. Yeah it wouldn't be smart to leave the 3k dmg forges out there when tanks would barely be able to get 3k hp. It's never good if the receiver of any weapon doesn't even have time to react before dieing. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1431	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:22:00 - [11] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Sorry a FG can in situations out snipe a sniper. All it takes is height or walls and the blast radius pays off in spades... Ace to be precise. So you have a huge armored individual who can one or two shot tanks. One shot most infantry. And is practically immune to one shots even to the head. Plus less reputable members of the heavy FG fraternity might be WP farming by shooting all the visible neutral installations for double points even if the team could utilize a CRU or supply point to push the objective. It's great fun out-sniping a sniper that has the bad fortune to be in range. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1431	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:23:00 - [12] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: so the charging time for the FG was not long enough? really? 3 seconds is a long time to charge a weapon while trying to dodge bullets and grenades being thrown at us. now its 4 seconds charge time???? so now we have to really dodge those bullets and hope that we survive long enough to charge the FG? geez CCP why dont you just nail our balls to the floor why dont you? Why are you around enemy infantry when trying to take out a tank with a forge gun? Haven't we been telling you for many months to use height and range to your advantage? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1431	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:25:00 - [13] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: It is seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. Absolute rubbish. One shot can take all the shields off of the most shield tanked + hardener Python (and you never catch the first shot with a hardener). Despite the longer charge time (which is reduced to 4.5 sec iirc with skills), by the time I'm hit, reason what happened, and react, it's virtually impossible to get out of range or dodge the next shot. Not to mention I've been knocked around and have a very defective damage indicator, making everything all the more difficult. All the forges were broken, hopefully they'll be more balanced. You mean to tell me you don't immediately activate afterburner and go straight up? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 132	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:27:00 - [14] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: so the charging time for the FG was not long enough? really? 3 seconds is a long time to charge a weapon while trying to dodge bullets and grenades being thrown at us. now its 4 seconds charge time???? so now we have to really dodge those bullets and hope that we survive long enough to charge the FG? geez CCP why dont you just nail our balls to the floor why dont you? Because you don't have to worry about bullets when you've got 5-6 people with forgeguns on a roof and 2 logi's spamming nanohives and uplinks for them. No one ever actually took the forge-gun into close quarters combat, they got up on a rooftop and sniped with it, or occasionally chased vehicles if there wasn't a good roof for them. Don't create false dichotomies or misrepresent information, it doesn't cause discussions to go anywhere. The forge-gun will still oneshot practically any dropsuit, the nerf on them was to prevent them from one-shotting practically any vehicle now too.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 374	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:30:00 - [15] - Quote 3-4 shots from the proto breach should kill a well fit tank, as long as it does that ill be happy,but if i have to reload..... A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 133	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:42:00 - [16] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: 3-4 shots from the proto breach should kill a well fit tank, as long as it does that ill be happy,but if i have to reload..... I really dislike this attitude. Why exactly do you think you're entitled to one-clip kills on vehicles when you always have all the advantages going into a fight - You're small and can't easily be seen, you always get the first shot in, unless you're stupid the vehicle won't be able to kill you their only option is to retreat or die. As much as I dislike the game league of legends they've more or less coined the term 'counterplay' - a concept that really doesn't exist in this game - basically it's the idea that everything you and your opponent does should give each other options (both positive and negative) on how to play against each other. Unfortunately the cards are all held by the AVers in this case and the vehicles hold absolutely 0 cards. Because of its abuse there isn't the ability to attempt to drive over people anymore this would be the counterplay to grenades and close range AV, where it puts the vehicle more at risk but allows them to succeed. Almost all AV always gets the first shot and is terrifyingly disproportionate in its amount of damage preventing vehicles from being able to activate hardeners before they've lost most of their tank or giving them the option to attack them. Vehicles are HUGE massive easy to hit targets whereas infantry is small and hard to hit, preventing vehicles from meaningfully being able to defend themselves or really go on the offensive. Vehicles and vehicle trees will now cost more SP than infantry and AV trees... and they also cost more isk too. And when we get to when AV actually receives some nerfs despite being wildly powerful and so easy to use its absolutely ****ing painful, the av stands there and whines "RIP SWARM LAUNCHERS, RIP FORGE-GUNS, I HATE YOU CCP THAT YOU TOOK AWAY MY ABILITY TO 1SHOT / 1CLIP VEHICLES, THIS ISNT FAIR AT ALL! I WANT MY EASY BUTTON BACK!"
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 284	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:43:00 - [17] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Sorry a FG can in situations out snipe a sniper. All it takes is height or walls and the blast radius pays off in spades... Ace to be precise. So you have a huge armored individual who can one or two shot tanks. One shot most infantry. And is practically immune to one shots even to the head. Plus less reputable members of the heavy FG fraternity might be WP farming by shooting all the visible neutral installations for double points even if the team could utilize a CRU or supply point to push the objective. A: You must have never played as a heavy forger if you're going to try to say forgegun is better than a sniper rifle, just because it can better it under certain conditions. Heck, under that assumption I presume you think then that nova knives are better than a sniper rifle B: Your aim must be terrible if you're saying us heavies are nearly immune to headshots. Our heads are the size of a fecking microwave, and the body it's attached to isn't exactly going to win a race when moving!!! We're more like the obstacles that other players have to get around in a cross country race. C: The farming of installations can be an issue. With turrets I don't mind it since most are in a useless position and someone on our side might as well get the WP than any tanker or forgegunner on the opposition side. Blowing up supply depots should only be done if they are on the only objective that the enemy own and they have it locked down, but some idiots do it regardless. To fix it I'd like to see supply depots have the same eHP as CRUs. And on the point of CRUs, it takes alot of fire to take one out, and like the depots, it can be very beneficial to do so in the right circumstance. Again, some idiots will do it regardless, but that's just a factor we're stuck with at the moment. Most will use a railgun due to the amount of damage needed. OP: I'm not to unhappy about the changes as the idea of the breech is massive Alpha damage which it still has, but I'll wait till I play 1.7 to get a feel for it against the new vehicles.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 284	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:56:00 - [18] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: 3-4 shots from the proto breach should kill a well fit tank, as long as it does that ill be happy,but if i have to reload..... If I can still find tankers to stay in an optimum position for 12-18 seconds after 1.7 hits I'll be happy
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1122	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:34:00 - [19] - Quote Shut up. FGs still have a higher DPS than Plasma Cannons, and are 10x easier to use, you have no reason to complain. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 670	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:48:00 - [20] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Chibi Andy wrote: so the charging time for the FG was not long enough? really? 3 seconds is a long time to charge a weapon while trying to dodge bullets and grenades being thrown at us. now its 4 seconds charge time???? so now we have to really dodge those bullets and hope that we survive long enough to charge the FG? geez CCP why dont you just nail our balls to the floor why dont you? Because you don't have to worry about bullets when you've got 5-6 people with forgeguns on a roof and 2 logi's spamming nanohives and uplinks for them. No one ever actually took the forge-gun into close quarters combat, they got up on a rooftop and sniped with it, or occasionally chased vehicles if there wasn't a good roof for them. Don't create false dichotomies or misrepresent information, it doesn't cause discussions to go anywhere. The forge-gun will still oneshot practically any dropsuit, the nerf on them was to prevent them from one-shotting practically any vehicle now too. and where in my post did i complain about the dmg? im complaining about the charge time. beside i dont roof camp with my FG and i only use it for tanks not on dropsuits. most of the time its hard to OHK a tank unless its a MLT tank, but i've seen tanks that can take more than 3 shots and still survive. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+

Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 670	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:51:00 - [21] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Johnny Guilt wrote: 3-4 shots from the proto breach should kill a well fit tank, as long as it does that ill be happy,but if i have to reload..... If I can still find tankers to stay in an optimum position for 12-18 seconds after 1.7 hits I'll be happy lol those that stay put for that long should not be given a tank in the first place. increased charge time will be a tough on us. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Senator Snipe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 74	Posted - 2013.12.06 10:58:00 - [22] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Very few, including myself, use the Breach variants. They are seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. The long charge times and inability to move make the Breach the most balanced Forge Gun out of the three options. However, this recent nerf to all FG variants hit the Breach the hardest. It now seems more useless than before. All the complaints about Assault FG tower sniping just killed a perfectly balanced weapon. R.I.P. Breach Forge Guns its ok man, they don't understand us. But we know. we know :) The Deadliest forge gunner in Dust 514
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 731	Posted - 2013.12.06 12:37:00 - [23] - Quote Senator Snipe wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: Very few, including myself, use the Breach variants. They are seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. The long charge times and inability to move make the Breach the most balanced Forge Gun out of the three options. However, this recent nerf to all FG variants hit the Breach the hardest. It now seems more useless than before. All the complaints about Assault FG tower sniping just killed a perfectly balanced weapon. R.I.P. Breach Forge Guns its ok man, they don't understand us. But we know. we know :) Very few understand the difficulties dedicated Breachers have to contend with: especially Breachers who do not cower atop high platforms and instead opt to fight on leveled ground. Far too often do players lump us into the same category as tower sniping Assault FGers, and that is wrong. I ask this to anyone: out of your last 10 FG deaths, how many were caused by a Breach variant? I'd be surprised if anyone answers with more than 3.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 197	Posted - 2013.12.06 13:32:00 - [24] - Quote I don't breach FG regularly by any means, generally I bring it out for very very specific purposes, as the charge time and immobilization make you a huge target (especially for non breach FGers!!!) that said, for such a crippling penalty I think breach should be a little better than it is proposed in the patch. For a 6-second charge time where your mobility is limited and you are glowing like a Christmas tree, I would expect massive damage spikes.. I think we'll have to see how this plays out.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 877	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:10:00 - [25] - Quote Nerf the other variants a bit more and the breach will shine again "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1634	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:16:00 - [26] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: LT SHANKS wrote: Very few, including myself, use the Breach variants. They are seldom, if at any time, a problem for infantry and pilots alike. The long charge times and inability to move make the Breach the most balanced Forge Gun out of the three options. However, this recent nerf to all FG variants hit the Breach the hardest. It now seems more useless than before. All the complaints about Assault FG tower sniping just killed a perfectly balanced weapon. R.I.P. Breach Forge Guns You're saying RIP because infantry needs every insane crutch. I happen to think they're incredible OP. One shot to the weak spot on a Madrugar with no modules running and a 180mm poly plate is all it takes to destroy it. I tested it with witnesses in an empty PC, and it was my own tank with nobody in it. If you are running a madly with no mods other than a 180 plate, then you should be killed quickly. Boy, I wish I could QQ about being killed when I only have one shield extender or armor plate on my dropsuit. My Very First Thread About Tanks -HAND
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 197	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:16:00 - [27] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Nerf the other variants a bit more and the breach will shine again We are currently straddling a line where heavies may be able to survive a direct shot, if you would go so far as to need it further you would ensure the death of the forge gun. Breach is not competitive, it is really meant for ambushing vehicles and overloading them with too much damage to escape. It is not a "competitive" weapon for use all the time. That is the Assaults purpose.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1580	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:59:00 - [28] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Well tanks are getting there hp nerfed so.. Yeah it wouldn't be smart to leave the 3k dmg forges out there when tanks would barely be able to get 3k hp. It's never good if the receiver of any weapon doesn't even have time to react before dieing. Reacting before dying is what separates a fun game from RL, dreams from reality. +1 Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES 58	Posted - 2013.12.06 15:56:00 - [29] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Well, here's how it works. One Forge Gun is killing everything so that automatically means that all Forge Guns are bad and need to be nerfed, despite whether or not variants outside of the abused one are balanced or not. -AR 514 I'm a Breacher when high end tanks come into play. Come 1.7, I'll still be a Breacher. I'll be using my proto breach to stomp HAVers just as I've always done. The damage done to the Breach is a crime, but I refuse to let go of it (the Breach). You can nerf the damage of my weapons, but you cannot nerf my spirits. Spoken like a true forger. Nowadays, true forgers are a rare breed. There's a passion one must have for the forge gun to appreciate it for what it is. Those that seek ultimate power will only seek the one weapon that will lay mountains of corpses to no end. But the forge is not this. Nor will it ever be. But one thing it will always be - a weapon of purpose. To be the thorn on those that tread the battlefield on iron horses. And when necessary, lay waste to those that stand before you. From one forger to another, you have my respect.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 495	Posted - 2013.12.06 16:32:00 - [30] - Quote the only fg i would avoid was the proto breach fg with my decently fitted mlt tank. the only thing i couldnt avoid was some idiot chucking 90 av nades at me. my only problem with av is av nades. when i first unlocked the assault fg. i had massive fun. even while on the losing side of a pubstomp. i took down many proto bears with single shots to the face and crouch. and chest, although im pretty sure majority of those were just luck shots as now im not hitting much with it any more.



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