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Dagger-Two
Gespenster Kompanie
183
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Posted - 2013.12.22 06:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
echo47 wrote: I need facts. What was the reclamation exactly and what was th e result?
The reclaiming was the great Amarrian undertaking to 'reclaim' the other races of New Eden. Bascially, this meant the Minmatar, because the Gallente were equal in military strength to the Empire at the time, and the emperor wasn't crazy enough to try and attack them.
The result was the enslavement / eradication of most of the Minmatar race. there is a good reason the Minmatar hate the Amarrians. Apart from their enslavement, the Amarrians used excessive force wherever they could to shock the Minmatar into submission, usually through wide-scale orbital bombardment. The reclaiming itself was slow going and lasted a very long time, even right up to the point of the Minmatar rebellion.
Quote from the story 'Theodicy':
GÇ£Do you have the latest casualty estimates for Eanna?GÇ¥
There was a pause. GÇ£At last pass, sixty-three million dead, mostly from orbital bombardment directed at population centers. One million or so killed during the surface landings; another million in subsequent ground combat. At least two million were taken as slaves, but we wonGÇÖt know exact numbers for some time.GÇ¥
Because of events shortly after the bombardment of Eanna, the Jovians involved themselves in the affair, and volunteered to smuggle massive amounts of Gallentean weapons to the Minmatar, as well as stage the Battle of Vak'Aioth. The humiliating defeat the Amarr suffered at the hands of the Jove rippled through the empire and signaled the start of the rebellion. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
166
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Posted - 2013.12.23 18:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Or if you were refering to what The Reclaiming is considered in our religion/culture it's basically the belief that God made the universe & it was meant for the faithful but over-time it was lost to the sinful & the corrupt. Thus god told The Amarr to "Reclaim" his lost creations & worlds.
Also to show the sinful the right way. But that's it in basic terms so I will bring you what our scriptures say.
Book Of Reclaiming
"I give to you the destiny of Faith, And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13
"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10
"So the Lord sent forth the Chosen, to bring forth the light of faith And those who embrace his love Shall be saved by his grace For we are his shepherds in the darkness His Angels of Mercy. But those who turn away from his light, And reject his true word Shall be struck down by his wrath For we are his retribution incarnate His Angels of Vengeance" - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 4:45
And the Lord spoke, and said, Lo, my people, Witness, for I have made the worlds of Heaven; And these worlds I give to you, My Chosen, So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens.
None shall stand higher than you save the Sefrim, Who serve Me as others shall serve you, For all things under Me serve one higher; So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens.
As Garrulor rules the skies; as Frisceas rules the sea; As Emperor rules Holder; as Holder rules Serf; Yet all under Heaven serve Me; So shall Amarr rule the worlds of the Heavens. - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 3.19 - 3.21
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
166
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Posted - 2013.12.23 18:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
As being a Amarrian religous reformist I personally do not like The Amarr forcing they're will on others. That is why I understand the Minmitar I just reject they're continued hatred. I hope 1 day the 2 work together or something.
So I see The Book Of Reclaiming in a different way. I bleieve Reclaiming is only ok in defence or if land/territory is lost during a war or something. Then it can be reclaimed otherwise invading & taking worlds I do not approve of without a very high, reasonable & good reason.
The Book Of Reclaiming is seen & used differently by the emperors & Empresses. Some barely pay attention to it, some don't believe in it, some use it as reason for war campaign.
The Amarr has a very lloonnggg Authority Rank system. Though some rankings are close to each-other or near being the same class.
Not really counting other races since they're technically not in The Amarr Empire.
At the very bottom are those who's name is removed from The Book Of Life (I believe it's called) which has everyone's name it, for they're name to be removed from the book takes something unspeakable & extremely evil only some few have been removed from it & it's considered a far worse punishment then being a servant.
Servants are eventually redeemed those who have they're name struck from the book is beyond redemption in the living world. Then theirs servants, then they're keepers, then the normal population merchants, scholars and etc., then I think theirs the military, then theirs the military generals/advisers to The Emperor or Empress, then High Ranked Religous Advisers/Scholars to The Emperor or Empress, Then theirs The 5 Heirs, Then The Emperor &/or Empress, then The Speaker Of Truths, then The Sefrim a.k.a Angels from Heaven, then theirs God itself. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
166
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Posted - 2013.12.23 19:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
After the start of it all The Recliaming time basically died down alot. The majority of The Minmitar I assume was the only conqurored race that really were.... hostile? They never adapted to it? Not sure what the right term would be but they never intigrated with The Amarr like the other conquored races so The Amarr during the Minmitar servant time prior to The Republic being born you see The Amarr having come up with things like Slaver Hounds.
You don't find records prior to The Minmitar of such extentsive ideas & creations to keep the servants from being.... bad?. Atleast not to my knowledge.
Eventually The Minmitar somehow got ships & stuff (which The Amarr as well as everyone else still have no idea how they got everything) & rebelled, enough rebelled that they went on to form The Republic. Though some Minmitar remained & some stayed because they liked The Amarr.
It's all rather complex lore.... |
True Adamance
Scions of Athra
5240
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Posted - 2013.12.24 05:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vinsarrow wrote:As being a Amarrian religous reformist I personally do not like The Amarr forcing they're will on others. That is why I understand the Minmitar I just reject they're continued hatred. I hope 1 day the 2 work together or something.
So I see The Book Of Reclaiming in a different way. I bleieve Reclaiming is only ok in defence or if land/territory is lost during a war or something. Then it can be reclaimed otherwise invading & taking worlds I do not approve of without a very high, reasonable & good reason.
But I don't deny the wrong done to them for this is 1 of the evils of The Amarr but it was very long ago basically around at the beginning of the Book Of Reclaiming. I believe which was millions or thousands of years ago in New Eden.
The Book Of Reclaiming is seen & used differently by the emperors & Empresses. Some barely pay attention to it, some don't believe in it, some use it as reason for war campaign. It varies & depends on the ruler & they're personality.
The Amarr have a very lloonnggg Authority Ranking system. Though some rankings are close to each-other or near being the same class.
Not really counting other races since they're technically not in The Amarr Empire.
At the very bottom are those who's name is removed from The Book Of Life (I believe it's called) which has everyone's name it, for they're name to be removed from the book takes something unspeakable & extremely evil only some few have been removed from it & it's considered a far worse punishment then being a servant.
Servants are eventually redeemed those who have they're name struck from the book is beyond redemption in the living world. Then theirs servants, then they're keepers, then the normal population merchants, scholars and etc., then I think theirs the military, then theirs the military generals/advisers to The Emperor or Empress, then High Ranked Religous Advisers/Scholars to The Emperor or Empress, Then the Royal families, Then theirs The 5 Heirs, Then The Emperor &/or Empress, then The Speaker Of Truths, then The Sefrim a.k.a Angels from Heaven, then theirs God itself.
You are dangerously close to heresy Vinsarrow, like many others who seem to think they know how to interpret Gods will I only say this.
Do not cross the Empire.
To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi.
Reference = ISK
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
169
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Posted - 2013.12.29 19:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Well I stated what they can find out on they're own. I was asked after-all. I'm open-minded & see things differently hince why i'm a Amarrian religious reformist but I find very little to change about the Amarr.
My arguement has sometimes been that The 4 Empires (not including The Jove) are not all good I find The Amarr to be least bad. But they aren't perfect none are it's impossible to be perhaps.
Dagger & the question brought forth some of the bad of The Amarr. But the apex of The Reclaiming was long ago sure it's still done to a extent but it's being done currently how I think it should be done.
I also just explained the ranking system best I can it's very complex.
The Empresses & The Emperors through-out Amarr history has seen & used the book of Reclaiming differently it usually varies.
Empress Jamyl the current Empress so far is 1 if not the best leader The Amarr has ever had & she has done many great things for The Amarr & others I have yet to see 1 bad thing about her I highly agree with everything she has done & is doing so far. |
Tron Draconis
We Who Walk Alone
1
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Posted - 2014.01.09 07:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
What I don't understand is, some people make it sound as if they aren't part of a controlling system that gives them the idea to believe that what they are saying is right, All 4 Empires have done bad, and good to benefit themselves, the Gallente represent themselves as True Liberators, some would confused them with Americans, All the Alliances would be confused for Americans, but lts face it, There's a reason why all 4 Empires came from within the Government body of Earth, let me repeat that EARTH!, the ancestors of every human in New Eden, meaning, that no matter where we go, no matter what Alliance you go to, you will find the same things that you find on Current Earth, Slavery, Greed, deception, Lies, and most importantly, a system of control so perfect, that the human mind doesn't recognize it, right now, our beliefs aren't ours, they are a combination of knowledge that we all acquire throughout the years, so at this moment, we have no right to judge another alliance for things that the rest of the alliances do, whether is in secret, or not.
Let make this Example, and tell me how you would feel, So there are 4 humans, all from Caldari, Gallente, Amarr, and Minmatar, Lets say that each of these humans were a brother to you or sister, and they were found guilty of treason, and burned alive to show example of treason, Then a few weeks ago, you receive a message from your now Dead Brother or sister, about how they were innocent, do you believe what the message says, or do you turn a blind eye and believe what your Government tells you?
If the answer is You do believe in the message, then what would you do, a revolution? Rebellion? maybe you think about it, maybe all four of these Alliance's Govt will kill you, and your whole entire family just to shut you up. Now of course, because the 4 Humans from all different Alliances aren't your family, you don't give a damn about them, or do you? would sacrifice you and your family for the sake of another, or are you now thinking of maybe the answer is you believe in the Govt, and turn a blind eye. |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
830
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Posted - 2014.01.09 07:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tron Draconis wrote:What I don't understand is, some people make it sound as if they aren't part of a controlling system that gives them the idea to believe that what they are saying is right, All 4 Empires have done bad, and good to benefit themselves, the Gallente represent themselves as True Liberators, some would confused them with Americans, All the Alliances would be confused for Americans, but lts face it, There's a reason why all 4 Empires came from within the Government body of Earth, let me repeat that EARTH!, the ancestors of every human in New Eden, meaning, that no matter where we go, no matter what Alliance you go to, you will find the same things that you find on Current Earth, Slavery, Greed, deception, Lies, and most importantly, a system of control so perfect, that the human mind doesn't recognize it, right now, our beliefs aren't ours, they are a combination of knowledge that we all acquire throughout the years, so at this moment, we have no right to judge another alliance for things that the rest of the alliances do, whether is in secret, or not.
Let make this Example, and tell me how you would feel, So there are 4 humans, all from Caldari, Gallente, Amarr, and Minmatar, Lets say that each of these humans were a brother to you or sister, and they were found guilty of treason, and burned alive to show example of treason, Then a few weeks ago, you receive a message from your now Dead Brother or sister, about how they were innocent, do you believe what the message says, or do you turn a blind eye and believe what your Government tells you?
If the answer is You do believe in the message, then what would you do, a revolution? Rebellion? maybe you think about it, maybe all four of these Alliance's Govt will kill you, and your whole entire family just to shut you up. Now of course, because the 4 Humans from all different Alliances aren't your family, you don't give a damn about them, or do you? would sacrifice you and your family for the sake of another, or are you now thinking of maybe the answer is you believe in the Govt, and turn a blind eye. Your entire argument was invalidated the moment you mentioned Terra. I don't listen to delusioned people.
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Dec. 31st
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Tron Draconis
We Who Walk Alone
1
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Posted - 2014.01.09 07:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Have you seen the Origins Trailer for Eve? because we all do come from Terra as you may call it, a Bridge was found that took humans to New Eden, then it Collapse. my Argument is just. Maybe you should learn your facts first before you comment. |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
830
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tron Draconis wrote:Have you seen the Origins Trailer for Eve? because we all do come from Terra as you may call it, a Bridge was found that took humans to New Eden, then it Collapse. my Argument is just. Maybe you should learn your facts first before you comment. ((1. Read the rules, specifically the one about In Character 2. Not everything CCP makes can be considered canon, specifically the Origins trailer 3. Read here.
Before you start calling me misinformed, look up the facts yourself first))
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Dec. 31st
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Tron Draconis
We Who Walk Alone
1
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
So mentioning Terra is Prohibited because is a myth in Eve universe. Yet CCP mentions it on their own Main Page. Wow |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
830
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Posted - 2014.01.09 08:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tron Draconis wrote:According to what you depict is out of character. When CCP comes in this forum and tells me themselves, then I believe, not some random person focused on what you believe and what I believe is different. this is what makes us human, just because I don't see what you see, doesn't mean my argument is invalid. So everything I say and write must be in Character based on what other people believe is in character, because I don't see any examples on the rules. so therefor, my argument isn't out of character. ((Alright, let's break this down.
First things first, you'd have to learn the difference between In Character and Out Of Character. When I'm Out Of Character, I put brackets around my writings. This Out Of Character text is different from the person who is writing In Character. What I did with my first reply to you, is where my character dismissed your grand argument in the fact that you mentioned Terra and a lot of things that did not exist in the New Eden universe. Then you insisted that what you knew was true based on a trailer you saw on YouTube, and I then explained to you Out Of Character that the specific trailer you mentioned can't be considered canon.
Now, what you and I believe is irrelevant, because what I believe is backed up by CCP, in several different articles. If you didn't know, the EVElopedia, which covers both EVE Online and DUST 514, is maintained by CCP staff, or volunteer GMs approved by CCP staff. From this we can deduct that what is in the EVElopedia is true, and not just something a collective of people happened to believe in. The first thing to counter your argument is again, this post describing the guidelines of roleplaying in EVE, and by extension DUST 514 because both games are set in the same universe. In the guidelines section it says:
Roleplay wrote:What Earth? - Prime Fiction (the definitive statement from CCP of "what is" in the Eve universe) states that Earth was a long time ago and mostly remembered as a myth if at all. Avoid references to earth, history and the present day; keep the focus on sci-fi RP in the Eve setting. This clearly states that Earth is a myth, and any references to it should be avoided. If you do so, you are considered a lunatic in character. Now you might say that the YouTube video is more recent and overwrites this guideline. Fair point, but let me present you this article, detailing what information is in character and what information isn't. At the very bottom, there is a section about YouTube videos:
YouTube Videos wrote: Links are OK: With few exceptions, no
References are OK: With few exceptions, no
Videos (or "holoreels") are very prone to breaking the fourth wall, and discretion should be used in each case. Some informative "lore" videos are fine (for example, Day of Darkness II), though they may be dismissed as propaganda.
So we conclude that most of the YouTube videos that CCP has made about EVE Online and DUST 514 break the fourth wall heavily, and you should avoid using them in RP. This is a fact, not just something I believe in. The reason this is so because most YouTube videos CCP makes are promotional material, designed to get the attention of viewers and possibly get new customers, not as a canon source of information.
Even if the EVElopedia wasn't maintained by CCP, and in some parts it isn't, from these articles we can conclude that the majority of roleplayers in both EVE and DUST have decided that references to Earth should be avoided, as are using YouTube videos in roleplay. Your beliefs won't change that no matter what.
Now, if you would have realized the difference between In Character and Out of Character, you would have made this debate in DUST 514 Fiction, which discusses the lore from an out of character point of view where using real life examples is fine. If you want to do debates within the Intergalactic Summit, which is In Character, you have to know the difference between what is and what isn't In Character knowledge, and base your debates on that.))
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Dec. 31st
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Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
157
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Posted - 2014.01.09 13:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
If you think any Faction in New Eden is wholly good than you are a fool. |
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
5491
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Posted - 2014.01.09 18:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
Akdhar Saif wrote:If you think any Faction in New Eden is wholly good than you are a fool.
((Or RPing a loyal citizen of that faction, given how indoctrinated to the ideals each faction represents in new eden the people are....well its almost odd being in the grey zone between the empires.))
To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi.
Reference = ISK
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Hawk-eye Occultus
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
3
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Posted - 2014.01.14 23:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned Sansha's Nation. I mean, they seem to have some sort of utopian dream going on.
Granted, it does involve slave implants; but humans are too untrustworthy to be expected to make utopia without some sort of hook.
Falling is, in many ways; just like that thing that we call "Flying"...
Right up until you hit the ground.
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
5673
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Posted - 2014.01.14 23:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hawk-eye Occultus wrote:I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned Sansha's Nation. I mean, they seem to have some sort of utopian dream going on.
Granted, it does involve slave implants; but humans are too untrustworthy to be expected to make utopia without some sort of hook. Its more that the Nation strips from you your very sense of being and self....you are manipulated body and souls for the purposes of on man with a godcomplex.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall.
For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach"
-Askura 10:3
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Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
389
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Posted - 2014.01.15 06:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Hawk-eye Occultus wrote:I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned Sansha's Nation. I mean, they seem to have some sort of utopian dream going on.
Granted, it does involve slave implants; but humans are too untrustworthy to be expected to make utopia without some sort of hook. Its more that the Nation strips from you your very sense of being and self....you are manipulated body and souls for the purposes of on man with a godcomplex. The Templar Crusader has the right of it. Sansha's Nation may once have had a valid path, but its Master is a paragon of arrogance.
Arrogant actions cast ripples through the world, and those ripples bring consequences. The deeper the arrogance, the stronger the ripple-- or wave. The depth of Sansha Kuvakei's arrogance may be observed in the sheer numbers who have died, or, worse, lost their minds, their identities ... their souls, it seems safe even to say, in the great waves his arrogance has caused. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
175
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Hawk-eye Occultus wrote:I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned Sansha's Nation. I mean, they seem to have some sort of utopian dream going on.
Granted, it does involve slave implants; but humans are too untrustworthy to be expected to make utopia without some sort of hook. Its more that the Nation strips from you your very sense of being and self....you are manipulated body and souls for the purposes of on man with a godcomplex. The Templar Crusader has the right of it. Sansha's Nation may once have had a valid path, but its Master is a paragon of arrogance. Arrogant actions cast ripples through the world, and those ripples bring consequences. The deeper the arrogance, the stronger the ripple-- or wave. The depth of Sansha Kuvakei's arrogance may be observed in the sheer numbers who have died, or, worse, lost their minds, their identities ... their souls, it seems safe even to say, in the great waves his arrogance has caused.
Ah so you know of it as well.... This relates to something I refer to as the ripple effect but it effects both sides - it is caused when 2 Factions face each-other with up to 7 or more alliances backing them both, the 2 sides engage in a massive "World War" of sorts effecting MANY groups & people, a type of butterfly effect but not exactly & it will be very deep, dramatic, relatively long & ruthless.
Eventually 1 side wins. The looser of course either falls apart completely destroyed or becomes a pathetic shell. But over time the winning side will feel the effects (ripples from the war sent down through a long period of time, eroding away the winner) thus slowly falling apart due to things caused by that war, eventually it reaches it's apex & the winner also will fall apart.
To this day I know only of 1 group that somewhat survived the ripple effect out of far over 25 groups.
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SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
614
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Posted - 2014.01.16 07:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
My favourite examples of the Gallente ws in the book Templar one. *Spoiler*
Near the end of the book all 4 empires are wanting to converge over a world with Immortal soldiers. The Gallente President, who was a Capsuleer, was in front of the press telling the camera's that he would never order military actions against the Caldari.
At the same time he has communications open to his generals and is using that mind link to order an attack of a Caldari fleet. |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
866
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Posted - 2014.01.16 07:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:My favourite examples of the Gallente ws in the book Templar one. *Spoiler*
Near the end of the book all 4 empires are wanting to converge over a world with Immortal soldiers. The Gallente President, who was a Capsuleer, was in front of the press telling the camera's that he would never order military actions against the Caldari.
At the same time he has communications open to his generals and is using that mind link to order an attack of a Caldari fleet. ((Templar One book does not exist in New Eden, and using the mind link to order the attack is not public knowledge))
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Jan. 14th
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
5816
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Posted - 2014.01.17 02:26:00 -
[51] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:My favourite examples of the Gallente ws in the book Templar one. *Spoiler*
Near the end of the book all 4 empires are wanting to converge over a world with Immortal soldiers. The Gallente President, who was a Capsuleer, was in front of the press telling the camera's that he would never order military actions against the Caldari.
At the same time he has communications open to his generals and is using that mind link to order an attack of a Caldari fleet.
((Facepalms..... of course the President of the Federation would not openly admit to or threaten the State with military action. Publicly speaking the Gallente are the masters of mass media and propaganda. If their president were to be seen taking action to agress upon the Caldari or break the fragile cluster wide peace his people would be vilified.))
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
135
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Posted - 2014.01.20 16:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:My favourite examples of the Gallente ws in the book Templar one. *Spoiler*
Near the end of the book all 4 empires are wanting to converge over a world with Immortal soldiers. The Gallente President, who was a Capsuleer, was in front of the press telling the camera's that he would never order military actions against the Caldari.
At the same time he has communications open to his generals and is using that mind link to order an attack of a Caldari fleet.
Roden an arms manufacture and military ship builder who amassed a fortune to become the Gallente president....a war profiteer.
I find hilarious all the voices that say the Gallente are a peace loving democracy.
Fortune favors the Bold,but Success favors the Resolute
Unbent,Unburdened, UNSTOPPABLE Amarr loyalist
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